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blindplayer
12-14-2006, 09:20 PM
OK, so I've been playing PF for a while and still I havent been able to continuously land on a carrier successfully without the autopilot http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif(til recently)...I've watched the tutorial several times, and watch the autopilot as it lands but it seems freakin impossible (at least on the Seafire that I always use) because there's no way I can see where I'm going from the cockpit view, as the angle of attack is quite high. I made up my own method for landing and have been practicing it, succeeding (without breaking anything)about 9 out of 13 tries . So I have 2 questions:

1-Should I continue using my method, even though the usual approach speed is about 160km/hr, as opposed to the 100 km/hr as done by the autopilot?

2-Can you guys land on a carrier the same way it's shown in the tutorial?

Freelancer-1
12-14-2006, 09:30 PM
I think if you find a method that works for you, then stick with it.

Or you could learn the Datter Method:
http://video.qooqle.jp/?v=FLEzeI6DAqA&title=Carrier%20L...20method&q=PACIFIC%2 (http://video.qooqle.jp/?v=FLEzeI6DAqA&title=Carrier%20Landings%20-%20the%20datter%20method&q=PACIFIC%2)<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/Freelancer1/Misc/SIG-AVG.gif

blindplayer
12-14-2006, 09:42 PM
LoL, quite the method. Does it really work EVERY time? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Phil_C
12-14-2006, 09:56 PM
i know it may sound silly but i still use the single player missions to gain some seat time.. i still think that continous practice is the only way to get better at that...<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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henriksultan
12-14-2006, 11:09 PM
http://www.darts-page.com/ - has some awsome instructional videos that u should check out. Also a carrier landing<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Nimits
12-15-2006, 12:05 AM
Frankly, if it works for you, then your doing great.

If you are interested in a slightly more realistic approach, 160km/h does seem a little high for a carrier approach. You want your airspeed as slow as possible, just above stall speed (somewhere between 80 and 90 Knots for most American fighters) with as shallow (the Japanse used about 4-5 degrees) an approach as you can manage (the lack of an LSO or carrier landing light array and the inability to lean out the cockpit does necessitate keeping the deck in sight longer than otherwise might be necessary). As you cross the edge of the deck, you should cut your engine and pul back on the stick slightly to stall the plane onto the deck.

To be honest, I can do this perfect 9 out of 10 times D3A, SBD, and A6M, but the F6F and F4U (and the F4F to a lesser extent) give me fits sometime, trying to keep the airspeed slow enough without stalling a wing or ending below the carrier deck.

Phil_C
12-15-2006, 12:20 AM
Now i have a question that sorta fits in this thread...

I know that today, naval aviators as soon as the hook hits the deck, they throttle up, in case of a bolter, so that they have sufficient speed and power to keep flying if need be...

my question is did pilots in WWII do this as well? or is this just a product of the higher speeds of jet fighters? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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FritzGryphon
12-15-2006, 01:12 AM
With Corsair and F6F I do 150km/h approach, then cut power 3-4 seconds before touchdown.

With Zero, I stabilize the plane in a hover above the carrier deck, and gently lower it down.

I've seen videos of WWII bolters and touch'n'goes on carrier planes. I don't think it was common, however. More often the plane would be caught in a net to prevent it colliding with other parked planes.

Logically speaking, if a plane can take off from a carrier with a full load, it should easily be able to do a bolter while carrying no load.

VFS-214_Hawk
12-15-2006, 04:52 AM
Here is one I made a while back. Scoll down to Carrier Landing by VMF-312_530Hawk.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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stansdds
12-15-2006, 05:10 AM
The Datter video is funny as H-E-double tooth picks!!!!! Go to Darts page to really learn how about carrier traps as well as other useful flying and combat instructions.

Oh, and the Datter method could also be called the Stans method, as most of my traps end that way.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

When you know as much as I do, you become a danger only to yourself. -Stans, 2006

mrsiCkstar
12-15-2006, 07:42 AM
the hardest part for me in a carrier landing is knowing when to cut the throttle and flare so that you catch an early wire... I always do it too late and end up touching down about mid deck and then I fall into the sea from the bow of the ship. my approach speed is usually about 100mph in the Corsair. It always seems like if I cut the throttle any sooner I'll just hit the ship under the deck lol.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://home.no.net/jonmarja/images/f4usig.jpg

VF51_Flatspin
12-15-2006, 08:39 AM
Keep your eye on the fantail as long as possible in your approach. Don't get strung out flying a straight line behind the carrier for several miles (or km if you prefer).

Approach the carrier flying opposite its direction of movement at about 600ft and around 100-120KIAS, keep it on your left. When the island passes you, start turning into the carrier like your going to attack it from behind (it will feel wierd at first, but it works). The carrier is constantly moving away so your approach angle is constantly opening up. You can keep the fantail in your 10-11 o'clock view this way all the way in to the landing. You should be bleeding off some speed in the turn -- gradually descending to the deck. If you've done it right, you'll have the deck in sight the entire time and level your wings just before taking the "cut" and dropping to the deck. It's easy to know when to "cut" when you can see the deck out your left window and know exactly where it is without dipping your nose and forcing yourself to come in too hot.

Takes some practice, but my squad does this approach exclusively during our flight ops. It's also a perishable skill...don't do it for a few weeks and you'll lose some of the finesse!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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sithhar9
12-15-2006, 12:43 PM
I nose down enough that when I hit the deck, my gears break off and I slide to a stop. Works everytime...

Nimits
12-15-2006, 03:09 PM
Now i have a question that sorta fits in this thread...

I know that today, naval aviators as soon as the hook hits the deck, they throttle up, in case of a bolter, so that they have sufficient speed and power to keep flying if need be...

my question is did pilots in WWII do this as well? or is this just a product of the higher speeds of jet fighters?

It is a product of angled flight decks, actually. 9 out of ten times, carriers had planes spotted on the forward part of the flight deck while recovering aircraft, so a bolter was out of the question. If the approach was screwed up enough that the LSO thought the plane was not going to catch the wire, then he had to wave him off, and this was one of the reasons wave offs were mandatory commands (where as the rest of the LSO signals were more like "strong suggestions"). If the plane did not obey the wave off or something went wrong after the cut signal, the only option was to "fly" into the carrier.

With angled decks, planes land angled off axis from the forward part of the flight, so even if they miss the arresting cables, the worse they can do is go off the other end; they are not going to hit any other planes. This made bolters possible (which is much safer for pilot and plane than relying on the barrier.

Of course, in game there carsh barriers are not modelled and there are almost never any planes spotted on deck while you are landing, so you can push the throttle up on contact if you want. Just be careful to get your hook up fast if you do bolter, though, since there are forward arresting wires on some carriers in they are elastic enough in game that you can fly off the deck at slow speed after the tailhook has caught.

blindplayer
12-15-2006, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by sithhar9:
I nose down enough that when I hit the deck, my gears break off and I slide to a stop. Works everytime...

haha...unfortunately that's the problem I run into with a high approach speed when I DO fail. To steep of an angle usually; however now I can spot that mistake when I'm approaching and just go around and try again instead of trying to force it. I've attempted several times to land slower, but every time the left wings falls down from under me and I crash into the blue... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

mortoma1958
12-15-2006, 03:13 PM
One of the problems you had ( or still have ) is that you paid any attention at all to the way the AI lands. They don't land accurately and fly in such a way on approach that can't be duplicated by a human pilot. This is true of the way they land on a land air strip, not just a carrier landing.

And you're right, it is impossible to do like thay do. They cheat as if they are on a rail, and fly more slowly, and at a far more shallow approach angle than you could at the same speed.

Pay no attention to how they land and don't try to emulate it, either for landing on land or on a carrier.

Freelancer-1
12-15-2006, 03:21 PM
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=68B7B2215970FF7A

A quick track in my favorite ride. No hook, but a good set of brakes.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/Freelancer1/Misc/SIG-AVG.gif

blindplayer
12-15-2006, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by mortoma1958:
One of the problems you had ( or still have ) is that you paid any attention at all to the way the AI lands. They don't land accurately and fly in such a way on approach that can't be duplicated by a human pilot. This is true of the way they land on a land air strip, not just a carrier landing.

And you're right, it is impossible to do like thay do. They cheat as if they are on a rail, and fly more slowly, and at a far more shallow approach angle than you could at the same speed.

Pay no attention to how they land and don't try to emulate it, either for landing on land or on a carrier.

Well I'm relieved to see someone else feels this way also, I was beginning to think I was a complete idiot.

slo_1_2_3
12-16-2006, 12:10 AM
I usta try to land like the AI but they can just do it better , they can go freakish ly slow with out a problem and make such smooth landing its crazy. But if I try it I end up with one of my wings dipping in the ground and then bang and that nice yellow mission over sign,I always wished one day the Ai would have a stupid factor where they have the ability to ,well screw up<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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VFS-214_Hawk
12-16-2006, 06:14 AM
I resurrected my carrier landing video I made two years ago. Here is how I make my landings in the F4U. However, this was version 4.00 or 4.01 ect. Notice NO NOSE WOBBLE!

Old Carrier Qualification
With a ten-knot surface wind and the carrier's forward speed (25 kts), the wind over the deck was approximately 35 knots. Full flaps, Cowl flaps open, Hook up. Trim 6 degrees nose right, 1 degree nose up, 6 degrees right wing down. Tailwheel locked. Cockpit canopy open and locked. Shoulder straps and seat belt tight. Prop control full forward for maximum revolutions per minute (rpm). Mixture auto rich. Supercharger neutral. Wings locked. Controls move freely.

Add throttle to full power -- approximately 54 inches of manifold pressure. After gear up, reduce the throttle setting to 34 inches of manifold pressure, set the propeller to 2300 rpm, and reset the trim tabs for neutral stick pressure and climbed to 800 ft.

About a mile ahead of the ship make a 180-degree left turn, descend to 200 feet for the downwind leg. drop tailhook, unlocked tailwheel, and set up approximately 3000 feet abeam of the ship.

Slow the airplane down to an approach speed of 90 knots. Check flaps down, wheels down, hook down, tail wheel unlocked. Shove the prop control forward for full rpm and reset the trim tabs to takeoff settings in case of a waveoff. Set rate of descent to about 150 feet per minute, maintaining just enough throttle to hold the nose up approximately 15 degrees, hanging on the prop.

Check altitude by seeing where the clear, flat horizon crossed the ship's mast above the bridge, since that indicates exactly how high you are above the deck.



For the below video:
You should be set up at 3-5 miles out with power settings as follows: Altitude - 2,700 ft, when level, power to 26"@ 2150 rpm with an airspeed of about 170mph. Cowl flaps to 1/2 open. The tower will give you "Charlie" landing clearance. Your flight will then form the right echelon formation and begin to approach the CV down wind at 800' (see chart below), canopy open. Power 26"@ 2100 rpm. Airspeed still about 170mph. After the appropriate Break beyond the ship's bow, you will drop the, gear, hook, full flaps down, props full rpm and trim the airplane for 125mph (not gonna work if flying "balls to the walls" when approaching the CV). Don't let the nose pitch up. Also, maintain level flight momentarily to allow some speed to bleed off, then descend to 600' @ about 150fpm. When "abeam" slow to 100mph and adjust trim to counteract left wing heavy. Maintain a shallow decent to the deck. This gives you a nose high attitude which drags the "hook" on the deck. There really is no flare using this approach. You are literally dragging the hook to the cable. You want to roll out on final for about 3-5 seconds aiming for the bow of the ship. This is the only blind spot. but you should now be ready to chop the power ease the stick back into your gut and grab the cable.

Video Link:
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/CurtissHawk/th_F4UCarrierLanding.jpg (http://s44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/CurtissHawk/?action=view&current=F4UCarrierLanding.flv)<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did I mention we need the "Slot" map for us PTO flyers?

http://f4ucorsair.com/bentwing%20Pictures/bumpersticker.jpg

VF51_Flatspin
12-16-2006, 08:03 AM
That's exactly what I was talking about! Nice landing video Hawk!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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mrsiCkstar
12-16-2006, 08:12 AM
yep nice landing! I'm gonna practise that method after dinner. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif although I always practice with the smaller carrier with the short deck since there's less room for error.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://home.no.net/jonmarja/images/f4usig.jpg

VFS-214_Hawk
12-16-2006, 10:06 AM
I hope you noticed that there was no nose wobble in the video. That was two years ago with whatever version was out at that time. It may have even been right out of the box. My first post on this was back in November 2004 which was only a month after Pacific Fighters was released in the USA.

I'll try to shoot another video of the same process using PF 4.04 and see what the difference is. Then I will try again when I get "1946".......hopefully the wobble will be gone as some have said!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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AznKamiKazeKid
12-16-2006, 12:29 PM
i just got into Il2 a couple days ago, and damn i can sure say i have a lot more respect for you WWII pilots. Flying these birds are hard, especially with the 4.0 FM. But do these planes really fly like this in RL? I mean i rarely see old fighters zig zagging across the runway when trying to take off (either that or they are really skilled).<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/SuperKungFu/SigFinalhires.jpg

Nimits
12-16-2006, 06:21 PM
Well, part of it is, a real pilot can actually feel the various forces and act to counter them; in the game, we have to wait for a visual indication, often leading to a late reaction and "fool in the shower" situation.

BTW, the one problem (from a real life perspective) with the above carrier landing video is that the Corsair comes in too high and lands way too far down deck. If that had been a real carrier, his noes would have been in the barrier before his hook had a chance to stop him. Watch real life carrier ops film from the period, and notice they are almost always aiming as near the stern as they can manage. (The simplified in game modeling of carrier ops, of course, means you can get away with that type of landing every time and the lack of an LSO or landing light system makes a realistic approach unnecessarily difficult).

Phil_C
12-16-2006, 06:28 PM
Speaking of the LSO.... i though that back in WWII they used them as well, but with the paddles instead of the meatball..


soo my question is where is the lil' fella?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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The-Pizza-Man
12-16-2006, 06:35 PM
Aces of the Pacific had LSOs<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Philipscdrw
12-16-2006, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by The-Pizza-Man:
Aces of the Pacific had LSOs Wasn't that a sub simulator? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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M2morris
12-16-2006, 10:33 PM
Well, heres how I've been doing carrier landings.
What-ever works right?
http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/planegeek/?actio...urrent=f4u121606.flv (http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/planegeek/?action=view&current=f4u121606.flv)

Nimits
12-17-2006, 12:28 AM
Well, heres how I've been doing carrier landings.
What-ever works right?

Now that looked good from my perspective. The sideslip is an interesting idea for working around the lack of an LSO.

Nimits
12-17-2006, 12:33 AM
Well, heres how I've been doing carrier landings.
What-ever works right?

Now that looked good from my perspective. The sideslip is an interesting idea for working around the lack of an LSO.


Wasn't that a sub simulator?

No. "Aces of the Deep" was WWII U-boat simulator

"Aces of the Pacific" was a WWII PTO flight sim.

VFS-214_Hawk
12-17-2006, 08:11 AM
Originally posted by Nimits:
Well, part of it is, a real pilot can actually feel the various forces and act to counter them; in the game, we have to wait for a visual indication, often leading to a late reaction and "fool in the shower" situation.

BTW, the one problem (from a real life perspective) with the above carrier landing video is that the Corsair comes in too high and lands way too far down deck. If that had been a real carrier, his noes would have been in the barrier before his hook had a chance to stop him. Watch real life carrier ops film from the period, and notice they are almost always aiming as near the stern as they can manage. (The simplified in game modeling of carrier ops, of course, means you can get away with that type of landing every time and the lack of an LSO or landing light system makes a realistic approach unnecessarily difficult).

nimitz is right on here. If you will notice I "poped" the throttle one too many times and it caused me to catch the 4th wire. Also I turned to the ship too late causing my wings to level at the max 5 seconds before touchdown. That wasn't my best landing but it was the only one I had after deleting the game one year ago after the "NOSE WOBBLE" patch was created. After hearing about "1946" I re-downloaded (3.00) to get some stick time and hope the wobble stuff is gone in 1946. I like realism but the nose wobble was just too much.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did I mention we need the "Slot" map for us PTO flyers?

http://f4ucorsair.com/bentwing%20Pictures/bumpersticker.jpg

VFS-214_Hawk
12-17-2006, 05:02 PM
Here is a Thunder Storm CV Landing I made today in V3.00. Had two wind shears on short final! Had a Left crosswind then over the deck it switched to a right cross wind....or it could have been the swaying of the CV from left to right! I'll get the external video posted...was kinda neat!
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/CurtissHawk/th_F4UThunderstormCVLanding.jpg (http://s44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/CurtissHawk/?action=view&current=F4UThunderstormCVLanding.flv)

EXTERNAL VIEW...Shortened!

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/CurtissHawk/th_F4UThunderstormCVLandingExternalVie.jpg (http://s44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/CurtissHawk/?action=view&current=F4UThunderstormCVLandingExternalVie.flv)<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did I mention we need the "Slot" map for us PTO flyers?

http://f4ucorsair.com/bentwing%20Pictures/bumpersticker.jpg

M2morris
12-17-2006, 10:01 PM
Q[UOTE]Originally posted by VFS-214_Hawk:
Here is a Thunder Storm CV Landing I made today in V3.00. Had two wind shears on short final! Had a Left crosswind then over the deck it switched to a right cross wind....or it could have been the swaying of the CV from left to right! I'll get the external video posted...was kinda neat!
[/URL][/QUOTE]
That WAS neat, I nead to try that, I'm gonna have to try that. Did you get that storm in mission builder? Good flying, max pucker factor there. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Phil_C
12-17-2006, 10:19 PM
those were neat clips to watch... i definately gota try that...


tho i was curious, would turning on the landing light helped see the carrier further away?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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VF51_Flatspin
12-17-2006, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by Philipscdrw:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The-Pizza-Man:
Aces of the Pacific had LSOs Wasn't that a sub simulator? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope. The reviews for it here are horrible, it was a good flight sim when it came out. Consider that the sim was released in 1992 and the reviews are written 8-11 years after (read: of course there's better stuff out there now)!

http://www.mobygames.com/game/aces-of-the-pacific<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Phil_C
12-18-2006, 12:32 AM
I think i know where both Aces of the Pacific and Aces over Europe are.. i wana see if they will work on my system for laughs... they were some fun when i was younger. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Phil_C
12-18-2006, 12:45 AM
sorry for the 2nd post, but i found the cd, and installed it.... 8 megs of HD space for the FULL install. o man im laughin hard. (its actually the collectors CD which has AOE, AOTD, A10 v1, Red Baron and AOTP on it.


but i just tried it out... it didnt work. i think ill try making a boot disk for it tomorrow and see if it works then..<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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VF51_Flatspin
12-18-2006, 10:10 AM
Those were pre-Win95 games Phil_C...ran only in DOS. You'll have to see if you can get your rig to run it that way.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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NonWonderDog
12-18-2006, 01:13 PM
http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/

A DOS emulator. MUCH easier than using a boot disk, particularly because DOS drivers for any recent sound and video hardware (I mean VESA drivers) don't exist.

Phil_C
12-18-2006, 01:37 PM
I know they are dos games. And i did restart in DOS mode, and i also tried running in a dos window (it worked for another old game).... heck i still remember how to make batch files to run certin programs in "high rez"


what i didnt know about, and thanks NWD was about the emulator and how its a lot easier to do/use than a boot disk. ill give that a shot<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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