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LeadSpitter_
06-03-2005, 06:07 PM
http://www.wapahani.com/Ocsw2.jpg

Objective Crew Served Weapon (OCSW)
The Objective Crew Served Weapon (OCSW), XM307, will be the dismounted infantry crew served weapon and defensive armament system for seven variants of the Future Combat System. The system includes: a 25mm automatic cannon capable of firing airburst and armor piercing ammunition; and, a .50 Cal Variant(XM312). The system (25mm and .50 Cal Variant) provides increased lethality and significant reductions in weight and supportability costs. The high explosive airbursting munition provides incapacitation and suppression out to 2,000 meters against both exposed and defilade personnel targets and light skinned vehicles. The OCSW is a transition from Advanced Technology Demonstration/Development (ATD)(BA 3 PE 63607/D627) to BA 5 (PE 64601/D627) however, the effort for the .50 Cal Variant will be a new start in FY04. This FCS subsystem supports the Legacy to Objective transition path of the Transformation Campaign Plan.

The Objective Crew Served Weapon (OCSW), which constitutes the weapon sub-system portion of the Land Warrior program, is an integrated machine gun system which couples the firepower of air bursting munitions with optoelectronic fire control to provide all-environment operation and enhanced lethality. The OCSW is an ultra-light, two-man portable, crew-served weapon system incorporating state-of-the-art electronics, advanced materials, and small arms technologies. This unique weapon permits a high probability of incapacitation and suppression of enemy soldiers up to 2000 meters away and has a high potential to damage lightly armored vehicles, water craft, and slow-moving aircraft beyond 1000 meters. The OCSW is the potential replacement weapon for the 40mm MK19 Grenade Machine Gun and the caliber .50 M2 Machine Gun.

The Objective Crew Served Weapon fires up to 260 25 mm rounds per minute in either automatic or semi-automatic mode. The trajectory of the rounds are flatter than the MK-19 which brings more rounds on target faster. The weapon has dual hand grips which allow the gun to be raised or lowered and moved laterally with a touch of a button. This means the gunner never has to take his hands off of the weapon. It uses a Direct View Optics similar to the OICW. The biggest advantage over the MK-19 is the weight. A MK-19 weighs about 140 pounds, while the OCSW weighs 37 pounds with the tripod. Its light-weight could increase the number of mission roles the OCSW could handle over the MK-19. A two man team could easily carry it into combat and it takes about a minute to set up. The OCSW is in the same development stage as the OICW.

The 25mm OCSW System is a next generation infantry weapon providing accurate, long range, high explosive, airburst firepower in a compact, self-contained, light weight package. The system consists of an advanced weapon and mount, a target acquisition/fire control system, and advanced ammunition. The OCSW has high potential for widespread use as a primary or secondary armament for a variety of vehicles and can be quickly dismounted and put into action on the ground. The 25mm system has a full solution fire control system including a laser range finder and a day/night sight. It delivers a highly lethal and suppressive fire out to 2,000 meters against personnel targets, light material targets and vehicles.

The program is managed by the Joint Service Small Arms Program (JSSAP) Office, U.S. Army Armament Research, Development and Engineering Center, Picatinny Arsenal, New Jersey.

In January 2001 the Joint Services Small Arms Program office of the US Army ARDEC/TACOM Command at Picatinny Arsenal, NJ awarded Primex Technologies a $17.0 million contract modification for the Advanced Technology Demonstrator Program for the Objective Crew Served Weapon System. This award brings the total contract value to $45.2 million for the OCSW System development program. Three systems and advanced ammunition were scheduled for delivery to the Aberdeen Test Center in June 2002 for technical, safety and early operational assessment testing.

fordfan25
06-03-2005, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by Jasko76:
Oh great! Another gun is exactly what this world needs. Yay!

yes as long as there is a need to baby sit some places may as well cary the biggst paddle you can for those little brates who like to throw tantrums.

fordfan25
06-03-2005, 06:28 PM
O i wish my country would. im tierd of every time some other place gets into trouble thay start crying for help. but of course as soon as thay dont need help its back to bashing as per the norm.

arcadeace
06-03-2005, 06:29 PM
Almost looks like a toy, be interested to know its size and weight. Hopefully it'll be a great help to the guys.

Support is also rising for "near-space blimps." From 65,000 - 350,000 feet high http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/Steevo37/my%20album/wired_blimp.jpg

fordfan25
06-03-2005, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by Arcadeace:
Almost looks like a toy, be interested to know its size and weight. Hopefully it'll be a great help to the guys.

Support is also rising for "near-space blimps." From 65,000 - 350,000 feet high http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/Steevo37/my%20album/wired_blimp.jpg

yea lol it kinda does. i would almost swear i had a water gun just like that when i was a kid lol. why the blimps though?

Jasko76
06-03-2005, 06:32 PM
Here's a good solution to world's problems: say your leader doesn't like mine. Should you and I fight over it? Of course not! Let's make a big cage, lock our two leaders in it, give them a pair of long sticks, grab some popcorn and watch them settle it down. Whaddaya think?

fordfan25
06-03-2005, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by Jasko76:
Here's a good solution to world's problems: say your leader doesn't like mine. Should you and I fight over it? Of course not! Let's make a big cage, lock our two leaders in it, give them a pair of long sticks, grab some popcorn and watch them settle it down. Whaddaya think?

lol i know what you mean. problem is in some case's its not always about the leaders not likeing one another. for instence even though i wish nukes or any type of weapon was never invented some "places" needs to have them far less than others. and im not talkn about just Ireq. some places starve there population just to be able to start up wepons programes just so thay can feel like big boys so to speak.
kinda like ***** envey....though i would not know what that feels like..... what.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif....she said she wouldnt tell http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif any one

Chuck_Older
06-03-2005, 06:40 PM
Oh, I feel the cookie materialising. But maybe in a new form...

arcadeace
06-03-2005, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by fordfan25:
why the blimps though?

Largely communications and surveillance, they could serve as a mobile substitute for satellites. Some might be able to carry equipment, effectively becoming giant U-hauls in the sky http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

SkyChimp
06-03-2005, 06:58 PM
http://www.gdatp.com/products/lethality/xm307/xm307_gallery/photos/6.jpg

http://www.gdatp.com/products/lethality/xm307/xm307_gallery/photos/5.jpg

heywooood
06-03-2005, 07:30 PM
yep - thats a gun alright

LeadSpitter_
06-03-2005, 07:51 PM
It reminds me of those remote guns in aliens.

The oscw can also be remote controlled and at 34 lbs compaired to 86-140 as others its pretty impressive.

I bet an ak47 could take it out tho.

jetsetsam
06-03-2005, 08:09 PM
How does it get a range out to 2000 yards with such a short barrel? or is that out to 2000 yards with just indirect fire?

horseback
06-03-2005, 09:07 PM
It looks nice, but can I get it through airport security? -And what am I gonna do with my old M2s and M60s?

cheers

horseback

fordfan25
06-03-2005, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by Jasko76:
Well, I just hope that darn situation in Iraq improves soon, I'm sick of watching various body parts scattered all over some street in Iraq because some air heads don't like the new order.

As of "other" places, I think Iran was/is a far meaner enemy of human rights, democracy and freedom - it should have been dealt with instead of Iraq IMHO.

i was refering to north koria but yes there are some nasty places on this earth and there is realy no need for things to be that way. most people dont relise that the amrican PEOPLE just want to help not take over but these scum bags just dont want to turn loose of what power thay have. but thats a topic for another thread.

fordfan25
06-03-2005, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by jetsetsam:
How does it get a range out to 2000 yards with such a short barrel? or is that out to 2000 yards with just indirect fire?

thats what i was going to say.

p1ngu666
06-03-2005, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by fordfan25:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jasko76:
Here's a good solution to world's problems: say your leader doesn't like mine. Should you and I fight over it? Of course not! Let's make a big cage, lock our two leaders in it, give them a pair of long sticks, grab some popcorn and watch them settle it down. Whaddaya think?

lol i know what you mean. problem is in some case's its not always about the leaders not likeing one another. for instence even though i wish nukes or any type of weapon was never invented some "places" needs to have them far less than others. and im not talkn about just Ireq. some places starve there population just to be able to start up wepons programes just so thay can feel like big boys so to speak.
kinda like ***** envey....though i would not know what that feels like..... what.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif....she said she wouldnt tell http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif any one </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yep, sucks to be in them places. some guy installed into power because who he knows, lies to the population, invades other countries at the drop of a hat, with dubious reasons. those in power then weld it to increase their wealth and there friends wealth, setting off time bombs all over teh world, and planting the seeds tobe reaped later. tied up with the loss of rights and income, for the ppl back home.

havent read the text, but i dunno, doesnt give the right impression a gun should do.

Arms1
06-03-2005, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by Jasko76:
Who says you need to "baby sit some places"? Mind yer own business.

nobody likes the cop when he gives you a speeding ticket but who is the first person that you appeal to when your house is broken into, when you are mugged or any other injustice to you or your families freedom or wellbeing is committed?

maybe north america (canada and the US), great britian and other democracies along with the huge amounts of aid we give to other less fortunate nations should stop trying to help others; unfortunately much of the world needs "babysitting"

han freak solo
06-03-2005, 10:07 PM
http://www.lssdigital.com/adventuresinbabysitting.jpg

VW-IceFire
06-03-2005, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by Arms1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jasko76:
Who says you need to "baby sit some places"? Mind yer own business.

nobody likes the cop when he gives you a speeding ticket but who is the first person that you appeal to when your house is broken into, when you are mugged or any other injustice to you or your families freedom or wellbeing is committed?

maybe north america (canada and the US), great britian and other democracies along with the huge amounts of aid we give to other less fortunate nations should stop trying to help others; unfortunately much of the world needs "babysitting" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Much of the world is not as fortunate as we are and so its the duty of developed nations to help in some humanitarian means. If that means sending peacekeepers in then by all means...but I'm coming from the Canadian perspective and thats how its largely seen from our point of view. Our army is setup for peacekeeping, not frontal all out war. They don't have the budget.

The other thing is that many of the developed nations screwed up these places in the first place. In some cases, the situation is better, in some cases not.

Anyways, we're here to talk guns http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thats a neat gun. I was just reading about the new 25mm cannon on the F-35 (apparently its called Pheonix now)...nifty. I wonder why its not on the F/A-22 as well.

han freak solo
06-03-2005, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by fordfan25:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jetsetsam:
How does it get a range out to 2000 yards with such a short barrel? or is that out to 2000 yards with just indirect fire?

thats what i was going to say. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's got to have different barrel lengths available, huh? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

fordfan25
06-03-2005, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fordfan25:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jasko76:
Here's a good solution to world's problems: say your leader doesn't like mine. Should you and I fight over it? Of course not! Let's make a big cage, lock our two leaders in it, give them a pair of long sticks, grab some popcorn and watch them settle it down. Whaddaya think?

lol i know what you mean. problem is in some case's its not always about the leaders not likeing one another. for instence even though i wish nukes or any type of weapon was never invented some "places" needs to have them far less than others. and im not talkn about just Ireq. some places starve there population just to be able to start up wepons programes just so thay can feel like big boys so to speak.
kinda like ***** envey....though i would not know what that feels like..... what.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif....she said she wouldnt tell http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif any one </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yep, sucks to be in them places. some guy installed into power because who he knows, lies to the population, invades other countries at the drop of a hat, with dubious reasons. those in power then weld it to increase their wealth and there friends wealth, setting off time bombs all over teh world, and planting the seeds tobe reaped later. tied up with the loss of rights and income, for the ppl back home.

havent read the text, but i dunno, doesnt give the right impression a gun should do. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

whats worse is those place's that like to b&^%^% and moan about how bad things are but dont have the back bone to do it them selves so thay wait for another place to do it then ^%#$% about the way in wich its done.

fordfan25
06-03-2005, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by han freak solo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fordfan25:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jetsetsam:
How does it get a range out to 2000 yards with such a short barrel? or is that out to 2000 yards with just indirect fire?

thats what i was going to say. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's got to have different barrel lengths available, huh? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

then again there is no telling what the barrel is made of and how its made. may be some kinda new tech or way of riffleing the barrel's. or could be a new type of ammo used. in 1920 who woulda thought something like a jaket could stop a bullet.

fordfan25
06-03-2005, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Arms1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jasko76:
Who says you need to "baby sit some places"? Mind yer own business.

nobody likes the cop when he gives you a speeding ticket but who is the first person that you appeal to when your house is broken into, when you are mugged or any other injustice to you or your families freedom or wellbeing is committed?

maybe north america (canada and the US), great britian and other democracies along with the huge amounts of aid we give to other less fortunate nations should stop trying to help others; unfortunately much of the world needs "babysitting" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Much of the world is not as fortunate as we are and so its the duty of developed nations to help in some humanitarian means. If that means sending peacekeepers in then by all means...but I'm coming from the Canadian perspective and thats how its largely seen from our point of view. Our army is setup for peacekeeping, not frontal all out war. They don't have the budget.

The other thing is that many of the developed nations screwed up these places in the first place. In some cases, the situation is better, in some cases not.

Anyways, we're here to talk guns http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thats a neat gun. I was just reading about the new 25mm cannon on the F-35 (apparently its called Pheonix now)...nifty. I wonder why its not on the F/A-22 as well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

agreed. the F-35 is that the new joint strike fighter.

Arms1
06-03-2005, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by Jasko76:
Who says you need to "baby sit some places"? Mind yer own business.

nobody likes the cop when he gives you a speeding ticket but who is the first person that you appeal to when your house is broken into, when you are mugged or any other injustice to you or your families freedom or wellbeing is committed?

maybe north america (canada and the US), great britian and other democracies along with the huge amounts of aid we give to other less fortunate nations should stop trying to help others; unfortunately much of the world needs "babysitting"[/QUOTE]
Much of the world is not as fortunate as we are and so its the duty of developed nations to help in some humanitarian means. If that means sending peacekeepers in then by all means...but I'm coming from the Canadian perspective and thats how its largely seen from our point of view. Our army is setup for peacekeeping, not frontal all out war. They don't have the budget.

The other thing is that many of the developed nations screwed up these places in the first place. In some cases, the situation is better, in some cases not.

Anyways, we're here to talk guns http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thats a neat gun. I was just reading about the new 25mm cannon on the F-35 (apparently its called Pheonix now)...nifty. I wonder why its not on the F/A-22 as well.[/QUOTE]

agreed. the F-35 is that the new joint strike fighter.[/QUOTE]

IceFire:

my statement is from a canadian perspective as well, we are a peacekeeping nation (yes it was our idea) our peacekeepers do a fantastic job and many whom i know well actually refer to the job as babysitting; that wasn't my point but if you don't get it thats ok; and yes that is a nice weapon

lrrp22
06-03-2005, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:

yep, sucks to be in them places. some guy installed into power because who he knows, lies to the population, invades other countries at the drop of a hat, with dubious reasons. those in power then weld it to increase their wealth and there friends wealth, setting off time bombs all over teh world, and planting the seeds tobe reaped later. tied up with the loss of rights and income, for the ppl back home.

havent read the text, but i dunno, doesnt give the right impression a gun should do.


Touché, plngu. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


.

LeadSpitter_
06-03-2005, 11:03 PM
Dont mind jaskos hatred of america and bringing his ****ty views into this thread. I asked the mods to remove his garbage but seems its too late for this thread. So dont get suckered into his garbage and speak of the weapon which is pretty remarkable design.

Udidtoo
06-03-2005, 11:19 PM
I would love to set up 250 milk jugs filled with water against a good backdrop then let er rip.Tape it and watch the mayham in slo mo.

The only good milk jug is a dead milk jug.

jarink
06-04-2005, 12:44 AM
It's nice, but I really like this here gun:

AA-12
Atchisson Assault-12 (AA-12). A selective- fire weapon, the AA-12 fires from an open bolt and uses either an 8- round box magazine or a 20-round drum.
http://home.grics.net/jrink/AA12.jpg


Especially if it were loaded with these:

FRAG-12
If you thought 12 gauge buckshot was an effective round, consider this: In October 2004 the U.S. Marine Corps began testing a new family of 12 ga. High-explosive rounds. These new rounds were developed by a private company to defeat reinforced, materiel and protected targets, and other targets requiring a high-explosive or armorpiercing warhead.

Called the FRAG-12, the program consists of a family of 12 ga. Highexplosive projectiles including a High Explosive (HE) Blast round, a HE Fragmentation round and a High Explosive Armor Piercing (HEAP) projectile with a shaped-charge penetrator.

Initial testing has confirmed that the HE Blast round will produce about a 1- inch hole in cold rolled steel plate with secondary spalling effects on the downrange side of the plate. The HE Fragmentation warhead is designed to have blast and fragmentation out to a 2-meter casualty radius and the HEAP round is claimed to be able to penetrate 4 inches of aluminum armor and more than 1 inch of steel. All three rounds have a 200m effective range.
http://home.grics.net/jrink/frag12.jpg

Dig the pop-out fins! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

fordfan25
06-04-2005, 01:14 AM
ill stick with my 30-30 win. i can hit a shot glass from 100 yards away every time. my 30 cal carbine aint to bad. just pron to jams. so by the time thay get there guns programed and defraged as well as run there virus scans the world shall be mine

jurinko
06-04-2005, 01:20 AM
shut up Jasko. If no Yankees, maybe you with your family should be excavated from another Srebrenica hole right now.

woofiedog
06-04-2005, 01:37 AM
The Objective Crew Served Weapon (OCSW), XM307 would make one Hec of a Water Melon Buster.
Did anyone catch the Artillery Program on the History Channel.
They had a Shoot-Out with a Modern LG1 105mm Howitzer from a Canadian Army Unit fresh back from Afghanistan... againest a Civil War Smooth Bore Piece and a Civilian Team.
Guess who Won!

http://www.geocities.com/gunner15field/giata.jpg

http://mikelynaugh.com/Editorial/2004/Images/IMG_8327.jpg

The Civil War Smooth Bore Piece and a Civilian Team. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

BigKahuna_GS
06-04-2005, 02:21 AM
S!

__________________________________________________ _________________________
Jasko76 Posted Fri June 03 2005 17:22
Who says you need to "baby sit some places"? Mind yer own business.
__________________________________________________ _________________________



Bosnia & Kosovo come to mind. It's a european problem on european soil. The combined might of Germany, France, Britain etc should be able to handle the situation.

Instead France asks the US to take the lead in this peace keeping mission and 10 years later we still have US troops over there. Believe me americans would of rather stayed home on this one and many others.



__________________________________________________ _______________________
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
yep, sucks to be in them places. some guy installed into power because who he knows, lies to the population, invades other countries at the drop of a hat, with dubious reasons. those in power then weld it to increase their wealth and there friends wealth, setting off time bombs all over teh world, and planting the seeds tobe reaped later. tied up with the loss of rights and income, for the ppl back home.
__________________________________________________ ________________________



Are you talking about the United Nations, Saddam Hussien and the "Oil for Food" multi billion dollar scandel ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif




I like the new USMC Mega shotgun !



_____

UK_Jackal
06-04-2005, 04:13 AM
Originally posted by jetsetsam:
How does it get a range out to 2000 yards with such a short barrel? or is that out to 2000 yards with just indirect fire?

I would assume it being a sections tool of distruction, Its no point having such a weapon that would only shoot 1 person at a time. Reason for spraying is because it can do more damage over a wider area rather than it being accurate.

Butonga
06-04-2005, 04:26 AM
Originally posted by han freak solo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fordfan25:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jetsetsam:
How does it get a range out to 2000 yards with such a short barrel? or is that out to 2000 yards with just indirect fire?

thats what i was going to say. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's got to have different barrel lengths available, huh? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am no gun expert, but I did get to see this weapon on the Military channel. When they fire it, the barrel actually extends out like a piston and retracts after the round is out the muzzle.

Here is it's handheld counterpart:

Objective Individual Combat Weapon (http://www.hkpro.com/oicw.htm)

Thing can carry two different caliber amunition at the same time and can also fire the fused time explosive bullets like the OSCW.

arcadeace
06-04-2005, 04:53 AM
Good post Butonga, thanks.

$10,000 to $12,000 each, and $25-$30 a pop for the 20mm ammunition.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/Steevo37/my%20album/oicwsoldier.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/Steevo37/my%20album/ammo.jpg

DeerHunterUK
06-04-2005, 06:25 AM
The OICW is interesting as the British SA80 is due to be replaced (as early as 2007 I've heard in some circles but more than likely in the next decade) and if rumours are true then the replacement will come from H&K possibly built under licence in Britain. The current cost of the OICW would be too much to buy them directly so if we couldn't buy them under licence then the British Army would probably go for the G36 series which is already being looked into to replace the MP5 in some tactical forces here.
Bearing in mind though, this is all speculation on my part and the British Army may well extend the life of the SA80.

Aaron_GT
06-04-2005, 07:12 AM
Bosnia & Kosovo come to mind. It's a european problem on european soil. The combined might of Germany, France, Britain etc should be able to handle the situation.

France, Britain (and other European nations) handled it initially, and for several years, and the cost of quite a few troops, France bearing the largest burden. Certainly there were tactical mistakes. But what you are confusing the USA getting involved to further US foreign policy interests (trying to avoid Greece being drawn into a wider Balkan problem) with alttuism. None of the nations involved in Bosnia, etc, were there for purely altruistic reasons.



Are you talking about the United Nations, Saddam Hussien and the "Oil for Food" multi billion dollar scandel ?

Many companies and individuals were involved in the Oil for Food programme (the legal parts, not just the fraudulent parts) and/or selling Saddam Hussein oil extraction equipment against embargoes. This includes US companies (one got fined by the US Government for bribing Iraqi port officials). It's more a case of some companies and individuals having no scruples than the UN. Weak oversight at the UN certainly didn't help, though.

Aaron_GT
06-04-2005, 07:16 AM
FRAG-12
If you thought 12 gauge buckshot was an effective round, consider this: In October 2004 the U.S. Marine Corps began testing a new family of 12 ga. High-explosive rounds. These new rounds were developed by a private company to defeat reinforced, materiel and protected targets, and other targets requiring a high-explosive or armorpiercing warhead.

I presume this could only be used in conflicts which fall outside the remit of the Geneva Conventions, as it would not be legal under them as AFAIK the use of shotguns or explosive rounds intended for direct fire against humans are expressly forbidden. Although I never quite understood why is it ok to drop a 155mm shell next to someone but illegal to, say, create a weapon to fire 20mm explosive shells straight at someone. It always seemed rather arbitrary.

Aaron_GT
06-04-2005, 07:17 AM
$10,000 to $12,000 each, and $25-$30 a pop for the 20mm ammunition.

And how much for the required steriods? It looks like a very heavy gun!

Butonga
06-04-2005, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">$10,000 to $12,000 each, and $25-$30 a pop for the 20mm ammunition.

And how much for the required steriods? It looks like a very heavy gun! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The OICW weighs in at 14lbs, which is 6.5 KG? I think an M16 weighs in around 20lbs, so actually it is much lighter.

The OSCW comparse even better. M19 weighs in at about 140lbs, while the OSCW weighs only 37lbs. This number is padded though. They are assuming the M19 weight with about 8 boxes full of ammo and three sand bags to hold down the tri-pod for recoil, while only 1 box of ammor for the OSCW and no sandbags for recoil (because it has virtually no recoil) The ammount of ammo is an assumption for how many bullets each weapon needs to achieve a certain level of leathality (is that even a word? I probably didn'
t spell it right anyway). 1 box of ammo for the OSCW supposedly equates to 8 boxes for the M19.

JG6_Oddball
06-04-2005, 07:52 AM
Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">$10,000 to $12,000 each, and $25-$30 a pop for the 20mm ammunition.

And how much for the required steriods? It looks like a very heavy gun! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

alot of new weps are made of composite material that make's them sturdy but light.

S!

BigKahuna_GS
06-04-2005, 07:58 AM
S!


Aaron_GT Posted Sat June 04 2005 06:12
France, Britain (and other European nations) handled it initially, and for several years, and the cost of quite a few troops, France bearing the largest burden. Certainly there were tactical mistakes. But what you are confusing the USA getting involved to further US foreign policy interests (trying to avoid Greece being drawn into a wider Balkan problem) with alttuism. None of the nations involved in Bosnia, etc, were there for purely altruistic reasons.
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Hya Aaron, I'm not confusing anything. Pure and simple the US was asked to take the lead in a european problem. Many americans look at this and ask why ? The US is ridculed as the World's police officer when many here dont want the job but dont see anyone else steping up to the plate. If europeans cant show the resolve to take care of a dictator in their own back yard(Kosovo)what kind of message does that send to dictators around the world ?



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quote:
Are you talking about the United Nations, Saddam Hussien and the "Oil for Food" multi billion dollar scandel ?
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Many companies and individuals were involved in the Oil for Food programme (the legal parts, not just the fraudulent parts) and/or selling Saddam Hussein oil extraction equipment against embargoes. This includes US companies (one got fined by the US Government for bribing Iraqi port officials). It's more a case of some companies and individuals having no scruples than the UN. Weak oversight at the UN certainly didn't help, though.Posts: 2356 | Registered: Fri December 19 2003



This was not a case of weak oversight by the U.N. many were profiting from this arangement. Yeah many companies and individuals that work for the U.N., starting at the top with Kofi Annan and his son. When the guy directing the investigation may be dirty or his son, how in depth do you think the investigation will be ? The money trail goes around the world and is tracible to key political figures.

Think about the scope of this scandel, the biggest bribery/fraud/deception in the history of the world to the tune of 20-40+ billion dollars. How many U.N. representatives did Saddam buy off on the security council while he rebuilt his weapons stockpiles, funded terrorism and abused his people?


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Viking-S
06-04-2005, 08:01 AM
I can understand a 0.50 debate or a 20mm debate in this forum but how does this fit in?
All weapons = WW2 = all armed conflict = UBI games = Il2 general forum?

How can the moderator have the nerve to delete a few posts that he obviously found political when this whole thread is OT and already turned into another embarrassment?
Gives me food for my thought that the moderators are a part of the problem and not of the solution.

AlmightyTallest
06-04-2005, 08:25 AM
Guys,

The key to this weapons accuracy is the laser rangefinder and computer, as well as the specialized ammunition that can be "programed" by the gun just before it's fired.

2,000 yards away you put your laser on a group of enemy soldiers as you look through the scope, this tells the ammunition that it should airburst at 2,000 yards, and the computer knows the elevation to put the gun at to make the round reach that range.

Gun is fired, usually only one to three rounds, they all airburst at the target throwing shrapnel everywhere and that's it.


They make components for the system out where I live.

Aaron_GT
06-04-2005, 09:04 AM
The OICW weighs in at 14lbs, which is 6.5 KG? I think an M16 weighs in around 20lbs, so actually it is much lighter.

I thought an M16 was more like 10lbs. So the OICW's a bit heavier. It just looks so bulky it looks like it would be really heavy, but I guess that the composites make it relatively light for the bulk. Guns do seem to be getting towards the Aliens look, though.

Aaron_GT
06-04-2005, 09:07 AM
The key to this weapons accuracy is the laser rangefinder and computer, as well as the specialized ammunition that can be "programed" by the gun just before it's fired.

And presumably the built in G36 type gun can be used as a backup. With mass usage things like small arms I'd be a bit concerned that the complexity might mean that there is a chance of unexpected failures of software glitches no matter how well they are tested.