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View Full Version : Trimming - What am I missing?



widdershins
06-27-2006, 08:31 PM
I never use trim. I know what it is and how it works, but I never bothered to use it learning to fly in this sim. The biggest reason is because I am using a Saitek Cyborg + CH pedals setup and I wanted to keep my hands off the keyboard as much as possible.

Am I missing anything by not trimming? I seem to be able to keep up speed wise with most online pilots (within reason) and my biggest problems in combat, I attribute anyway, are due to struggling with the hat and poor e-management (whole other ball of wax).

Will going back to virutal fight school and learing to trim make that big a difference?

widdershins
06-27-2006, 08:31 PM
I never use trim. I know what it is and how it works, but I never bothered to use it learning to fly in this sim. The biggest reason is because I am using a Saitek Cyborg + CH pedals setup and I wanted to keep my hands off the keyboard as much as possible.

Am I missing anything by not trimming? I seem to be able to keep up speed wise with most online pilots (within reason) and my biggest problems in combat, I attribute anyway, are due to struggling with the hat and poor e-management (whole other ball of wax).

Will going back to virutal fight school and learing to trim make that big a difference?

Tomahawk674
06-27-2006, 09:21 PM
IMO trim is just a commodity, at least it's that way in civil aviation. Then again I don't fly in 2000hp taildraggers...

Skoshi Tiger
06-27-2006, 10:25 PM
Trimming is used to reduce the effort that the pilot is required to make on the aircraft controls. In real life triming is fairly intuitive. You use the joystick (for elevator tim) to reach the required attitude and then change the trim until the aircraft stays in that attitude and the effort used to holdthat attitude is nill.

If you don't trim your fighting the aircaft and it's quite tiring after a while.

Now in the PF I normally use the trim wheel on my CH Combat Stick so that the plane stays where I point it. Otherwise you as soon as you take your hand off the stick the nose wil go either up or down.

Crash_Moses
06-27-2006, 10:28 PM
I use trim constantly. In fighters it helps me keep my aim steady and I don't have to fight the joystick as much. In bombers (especially dive bombers) it helps for the same reason...accuracy (remember...center your trim before dive bombing!). Not to mention I couldn't level bomb without it.

In general it makes take-offs and landings easier, especially for carrier ops. Poorly trimmed rudder will kill the top speed in a bomb laden SBD or Val and make take-offs that much riskier.

And it helps immensely while flying in formation.

But I think it really depends on personal preference and I imagine trim really only becomes a tactical advantage flying full real (I could be wrong) or for those who want to simulate the whole PTO experience.

IRL WWII airplanes were physically taxing to fly because the control surfaces were moved by the pilots' own strength(this was before the days of fly-by-wire). Trim reduced the amount of effort needed by the pilot to work the controls.

But this is a game and pilot fatigue isn't as much a factor as...say...spouse fatigue. If you don't feel the need to use it then by all means don't. I would suggest playing with it a little to see how you like it. Who knows...maybe you'll find an advantage in it.

But it is a pain to use if you have to use the keyboard. If you try it out and like it I recommend getting a HOTAS setup so you can map the keys to your stick and/or throttle. Makes it much more intuitive to use IMHO.

S!

stansdds
06-28-2006, 04:25 AM
Trim helps me in takeoff, formation flying, and landing. Adjusting trim during a fight would probably help me too, but I'm too busy trying to shake a Zeke off my six to be worrying about proper trim.

Bearcat99
06-28-2006, 06:02 AM
Trim is essential if you have realistic flight modelling set. An untrimmed or improperly trimmed plane will be more prone to stall and not fly straight. I highly recomend if you do nothing else that you set rudder trim and elevator trim to some key and use it... especially the rudder trim. unless as I saidf you are flying without stalls & spins etc...

widdershins
06-28-2006, 08:54 AM
Thanks for all the input guys.

I have to keep my hand on the stick all the time as the plastic centering ring is broken. There is too much friction, so now the joystick remains totaly loose after a full deflection. I guess that negates the trim thing anyway.

I can see where my level bombing would benifit, but I prefer dive bombers (because I suck a level bombing... this is probably a big reason why i suck at it). Also, for some reason, I have no problem with formation flying, takeoffs and landing... lock the tail wheel? Pfff.. f* that!

Anyway, once I convince the other half that I 'need' more toys, I'll upgrade the joystick and start using trim. If not for the advantage, then for a more realistic flight expereince!

-S!

thefruitbat
06-28-2006, 12:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by widdershins:
Thanks for all the input guys.

I have to keep my hand on the stick all the time as the plastic centering ring is broken. There is too much friction, so now the joystick remains totaly loose after a full deflection. I guess that negates the trim thing anyway.

I can see where my level bombing would benifit, but I prefer dive bombers (because I suck a level bombing... this is probably a big reason why i suck at it). Also, for some reason, I have no problem with formation flying, takeoffs and landing... lock the tail wheel? Pfff.. f* that!

Anyway, once I convince the other half that I 'need' more toys, I'll upgrade the joystick and start using trim. If not for the advantage, then for a more realistic flight expereince!

-S! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi widdershins, i spent the first 2/3? years of flying this game without using trim. I cannot imagine not using it now, if it is available. Not only is it essential for gunnery, but imo more importantly flying hands off increases your SA. It enables you to look around while flying in formation, as you are not constantly having to correct for being out of trim. It also gives you more time to think about other aspects of flying such as cem ie prop pitch, to check instruments to look at rpms, temps etc...

Before i learnt to trim properly, this was all to much pilot workload. Besides when you do learn to trim, it soon becomes second nature, you dont even notice you are doing it.

For level bombing you need to use rudder trim to steer your plane once you have engaged the level stabaliser. If you line rougly up your target, use the stabaliser, you can then go to your bombsight view, and use your rudder trim to steer the taget into the center of the bombsight. This way your altitude and speed do not change (may loose a few k's if you make a full rudder trim turn).

cheers fruitbat

widdershins
06-28-2006, 12:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by thefruitbat:
...words...

Before i learnt to trim properly, this was all to much pilot workload.

... more words..
cheers fruitbat </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, that's the biggest thing that keeps me thinking I should start using it... my brain/attention needs a break sometimes.

Thanks again guys, you are all super helpful!

S!

triggerhappyfin
06-28-2006, 03:38 PM
Recently I've made my self a new trimming devise that's proven to be more sensitive than my old(which is scrapped now). I took the P-39 out on a bombing run on UK-dedicated2 server and vere amazed as I now could trim even more sensitive than before and got that plane in perfect trim. What a difference in behaviour!

I got into a spin and quickly were able to get out of it again http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Trimming makes difference