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View Full Version : Is an updated UO (Urban Operations) with better graphics what we've been looking for?



XGN_King_George
03-19-2006, 06:39 AM
on the tusclan.com forums we're always discussing one thing or the other but inevitably the topic of conversation always comes back around to the r6 series of games as most of us on the forums are long time veterans of the series.

the one thing that remains constant in our discussions though is the belief that an updated UO (Urban Operations) with better graphics is what we've been looking for from ubi and rse.

i guess this question would only apply to veterans of the r6 series that have actually played UO. but if you have what do think?

is an updated UO with better graphics and new maps and weapons what you've been looking for in the newest r6 series title for pc?

discuss

Defuser
03-19-2006, 07:53 AM
If by an updated Urban Ops you mean;

* Better, more advanced and life-like AI, for tangoes, hostages AND Rainbow
* Streamlined (simplified interface) planning
* Improved ballistics / Realistic firearms
* More accessible multiplayer
* VOIP and lobbies
* Further non-linearity in map design
* Rendered insertions (with a variety of methods)
* Much, much more...

Now I love(d) Urban Ops. I think it's a fantastic addition to the Rainbow Six stable, and a great incremental update to Rogue Spear. It is, as far as I am concerned, the height of that particular era of Rainbow Six. At the time, it was unparalleled for what it did. However, times have changed and so have standards - not just in graphics as you mentioned, but for the game to compete in a modern market, with many realistic and tactical shooters vying for the number one spot, it needs something more. AI in R6 games has always been somewhat hit-and-miss. That needs work. The planning phase is needlessly elaborate and could be much more powerful. The multiplayer element can be more fully integrated into the core program without need for third party apps to maintain contacts (friends lists) and talk with your team mates (VOIP).

I just think that the game can be so much MORE than just a visually improved Urban Ops with more maps and weapons. I honestly don't think that, above Raven Shield, we need more weaponary. We have enough of a (superficial) variety already. Every possible whim is catered for outside of having the visual vanity of your favourite weapon included. Of course we want more challenging and varied maps to play, but only if the design approach is genuinely new - i.e. we can choose insertions and methods, we can breach windows and such...

What I'm getting at is that the game can be improved in many a different way without compromising the R6 feel or concepts central to its design philosophy. It needn't be merely another expansion pack with improved graphics - it can be game you can be proud to associate with the R6 name for the year 2006.

PimP_STAF
03-19-2006, 08:34 AM
I agree on every point but one. I think the lobbies are not exactly what we need. I loved how RvS implemented a spectator once dead, it gave you a community feel. I would like to see that come back in some form or another. Because when you died, if you cant watch your teammate's amazing shot, would you them want to describe it?

Defuser
03-19-2006, 09:02 AM
Oh, maintain spectatorship, absolutely, it's vital. It's just that prior to a game's commencing, we should be able to all gather, as players, and discuss tactics/whatever before readying up and moving out. Although we already have that to some degree (servers that force ready) it is good for there to be a place where players can gather to discuss the game outside of merely watching the messages scroll up the screen in spectator mode.

KungFu_CIA
03-19-2006, 10:45 AM
I agree with Defuser.

UO is a great game and I also think, the pinnacle of the Rogue Spear era.

But as Defuser said... Times have changed and so have players expectations.

The biggest one you will see people on these forums cite as a major negative is the old reticule system of "point and click" with no recoil shake... As Lockdown tried to go back to.

The old system is very unrealistic and outdated compared to Raven Shield which brought the addition of recoil shake into the series via first person perspective (weapon model on, or off) whenever you fire.

As much as I like the old R6/RS games... They feel very static and almost "too easy" in a lot of respects compared to Raven Shield where there is a better sense of immersion than just a rock steady reticule floating through the game world ala the olden days of Doom and Quake.

The reticule system is just one aspect of the entire game, of course, but it is an easy one to use to illustrate how things are progressing via technology and again, players expectations based on these technological advances.

FI_FlimFlam
03-19-2006, 11:05 AM
Defuser, I disagree with the Lobby concept somewhat. The "lobby in RvS" was pretty much the same, you just had a timer. This allowed for non-admin interaction to launch the game - great for 24/7 public servers. You could still do all that you asked without the old "lobby". If the admin makes the between round timer high enough then you can have a couple of minutes of discussion if you want. However a 30 second timer for public servers is really enough. Especially if there is an player went afk for a couple of minutes (potty break for example) holding up the show.

VOIP is ok but not at the expense of other critical game elements. If it is to be implemented it MUST be fully featured with administrative controls (enable/disable, global mute players) and client side controls (enable/disable, player mute), volume controls, etc.

Most everything else I agree with.

Defuser
03-19-2006, 11:21 AM
Ostensibly what I mean by a lobby is an area outside of the 'main game' where we ready up or what have you. I don't wish to compromise the functionality of dedicated public servers, I think that would be a major shot in the foot. I know in RvS there is already the F4 function, for the old planning, but I do think that upon a round's ending we don't simply have a floating scoreboard but instead a screen from which the scoreboard can be seen BUT also a map for which the plans can be discussed and worked on (because few players ever really used the F4 plan).

A lobby area, I think, is one in which the player can discuss the upcoming game and also plan ahead. I think having a map inbuilt into this would facilitate greater team interaction, fostering a sense of community. At the moment, with RvS, there is nothing forcing the player to work together, or rather, highlighting the possibility of teamwork. The lobby would be an area in which an otherwise solo player would see the map with the various doodles on, and think, 'I want a part of that plan'. Who gets control of the plan and other such mess is something that we need to work out and discuss, but I do think we need something over and above the simple 'floating scoreboard' between round effort we have at the moment. What I want to try and do is introduce more communication, more tactical flexibility and more possibility for teamwork. Of course, I completely support the decision to have a 'ready anyway' for public servers, or have the admin override any unready players. I think that is absolutely critical for the smooth running of public servers.

What I would also like is the possibility of joining a further 'outside a server/game room' area prior to playing the game, a la SWAT3. It is in this area that players could organise games, track and join games in which their friends are playing, or simply talk about tactics and life. The bad thing about these kind of things is that they usually need to be moderated, so I can't see how it would be achieved without the possibility of an organised group of idiots ruining it for everybody. Private channels, perhaps? Who knows. Essentially I want to do is make it easier for players to;

Organise a game
Get in a game with players they know
Once in a game, encourage the use of tactics and teamwork

Of course, things like these take development time away from the game proper, but a well developed and accessible multiplayer that helps foster a steady online community is absolutely paramount to the longevity and popularity of the game within its prospective online fanbase.

FI_FlimFlam
03-19-2006, 11:43 AM
With better definition of what you are desiring I can see your point. I would call it the "Planning Room" or just "Planning". What I see is similar to the F4 and an indicator of "(Planning)" next to the player's name to let others know you are in the Planning screen so they can join you as soon as they are dead or between rounds. They do not have to join in the planning sceeen if they do not want to but can at a button press. The lack of indicator is the main reason more didn't attempt or even know it was there.

Addittionally, I agree if that is to be implemented, then it really needs to be beefed up feature wise. It should be able to be accessed any time you are dead or between rounds. Most of the time a leader does not need to be elected - it generally will work itself out. Conflicts you have with other players that might manifest in planning are going to manifest in game regardless with them not following the plan and what not. You should be able to kick a player from planning by vote if they are disruptive. Also every player should have a different color to be able to visually identify a players sketches. A planning chat should be included that is external form the normal team chat - activated by a different button hopefully.

I still don't see this as that similar to the old "lobbys". I see it as a progression and improvement on the RvS planning more than anything else.

Defuser
03-19-2006, 12:03 PM
Perhaps my choice of words is conflicting with the established definition of 'lobbies' from the previous R6 games.

What I mean by a 'lobby' is an area outside of the game proper. The word lobby in itself is a 'waiting room' or an area before an entrance proper. In this respect, I am using it describe the parts of multiplayer where you are not actually in game, or more acutely, shooting stuff. In this respect, I think we need a 'lobby' rather than merely a scoreboard and tiny words scrolling up the side of the screen.

In this 'lobby' there is a planning screen that can be accessed (in much the same way as you said), an area in which players can chat, a scoreboard that can be viewed,, the ability to change weapons and kit, organise into teams and a list of what your friends are up to via the integrated 'friends list' that is under discussion. If this is what you classify as a planning screen, so be it. For me, planning would only be a part of it as it instead would be a much more holistic approach to communication prior to, and after, a match. By putting everything necessary for teamwork, game administration, individual options such as weaponary and armour, and, as you said, planning into the one area/screen/'lobby', I'm hoping to foster greater communication.

FI_FlimFlam
03-19-2006, 12:05 PM
aren't semantics fun? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I like the idea. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Defuser
03-19-2006, 12:09 PM
Ahaha, that's exactly what I was thinking!

I think we have consensus!

LVHighlander
03-25-2006, 06:22 PM
I have been a DIE HARD fan since Rainbow 6. Yes folks back then a Pent II with 128 ram and a voodoo card was a kickin machine.
Have we come along way, well obviously, especially since most of you have more memory in than that in your Ipods. UO was indeed the absolute pinnacle of the series. RvS was sooo close, just a few tweaks and they would have had it. They pissed a lot of R6 fans off by ignoring us in the forums,then tried to make it up with Iron Wrath for free, nice move, but then immediately backtracked what they had done with zero more tech support for the game. Was it fun you bet I had to get 4 copies to accomodate the wife and kids. What was my thanks for my patronage? Zero support.
My point here is thus: No matter what they do to the game, they cant please everyone, but just fricking support it. I really dont think that as a consumer , that its too much to ask for. Acknowledge the posts, let us know that you hear the complaints, weekly updates on a locked forum for example.
I work in a high stress high volume business, and yet I find time DAILY, to read email, and respond as needed, here all we ask for is a weekly update, if there is a team working on problems it should not take 40+ days to fix it! C'mon, we know better, quit jerking us off with your lack of response.
As for the gameplay? HELL yes! Give us UO/CO/Blackthorn updated. This game series was the reason for my on line play, and the reason I kept upgrading internet speeds and computers, give us a GREAT multi player game, I could care about the SP and the planning stages, heck I never uased them anyways, I just played Multi.Give us that,,,, and my god would we, at least my family, friends and I , very very happy!