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View Full Version : BOB - who wants a - Flyable Defiant



Destroyer110
05-22-2006, 06:38 AM
Wouldn't that be fun, having a flyable ,online defiant. One player the pilot, the other the gunner.

Gunner "30 emils 6 o'clock high, coming in FAST!"
RAATTTT-TATTT-TTATTT!!!
Gunner "3 emils 6 o'clock low, coming UP! BANK LEFT!!"
Pilot "done"
RATTT-TATTT-TATTTT
pilot "good shooting"

Sounds fun, would take some time to sync pilot and gunner I suspect.

x6BL_Brando
05-22-2006, 07:17 AM
Ha ha, you must be someone who enjoys getting killed horribly and frequently http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

What with the Defiant and the Fairey Battle you mentioned in another thread - you have to be suicidal http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Seriously - I can go with the Defiant in its night-fighter role where it was very successful, but its vulnerability as a day-fighter had it withdrawn from that role in short order - first operational sortie on 12 May 1940...the unit suffered its first losses the following day, when five out of six aircraft were shot down by Bf 109s in large dogfight. The Defiant was never designed to dogfight with single-seat fighters and losses soon mounted. By the end of May 1940, it had become very clear that the Defiant was no match for the Bf 109 and ... moved to airfields away from the south coast of England

Although lacking speed and defensive armament and therefore totally unsuitable for unescorted daylight operations the Battle will always be remembered for the heroic attacks on the bridges at Maastricht and Sedan following the German invasion in May 1940.
And that was it. All six Battles were shot down and the plane was withdrawn from France. Some raids were carried out on the Channel ports but all planes had been relegated to training by September 1940. This site has good info http://www.jaapteeuwen.com/ww2aircraft/html%20pages/FAIREY%20BATTLE.htm

I can't help thinking that it's hardly worth bothering to spend time on making obsolescent types flyable. The Battle will always be a target drone; unable to defend itself it can only serve perhaps as a tempting piece of bait to draw down the 109's. I'd prefer not to be in it at the time!

Likewise the the Def in daylight. I'm starting to fancy the nightfighter though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

B.

JG53Frankyboy
05-22-2006, 08:04 AM
with such a thinking only Bf109E and Spitfire would be needed as flyable !

-Bf110 is a target drone to Hurricanes and Spitfire
-Ju87.............
-FIAT fighters...................
-all bombers............... to fighters

well http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Feathered_IV
05-22-2006, 08:23 AM
Nightfighter campaign would be neat. Day fighter campaign would be - breif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif.

mllaneza
05-22-2006, 10:50 AM
Sure flying the Defiant in daylight hours would be suicidal. Big deal, I for one would like to try it.

Ok, low priority, but it'd be an interesting addition to the game.

sparty7200
05-22-2006, 03:14 PM
hell y not..life's all about diversity http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Frantish
05-22-2006, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by x6BL_Brando:
Ha ha, you must be someone who enjoys getting killed horribly and frequently http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Seriously - I can go with the Defiant in its night-fighter role where it was very successful, but its vulnerability as a day-fighter had it withdrawn from that role in short order -


According to the recent book "The Turret Fighters" by the renowned aviation historian Alec Brew,
264 Sqn developed effective countermeasures against single seat aircraft such as the Bf109. By flying in an ever-descending circle, sacrificing the advantage of height but eliminating the possibility of attack from underneath while giving 360? of defensive fire. This tactic was used successfully against Bf109's in action, but 141 Sqn chose to ignore their advice with devastating consequences (heavy loses).

The early WW2 RAF made a number of disasterous tactical mistakes in the air!
The Definat case seems to be just another one of them. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

mothyp
05-23-2006, 04:42 AM
The battle squadrons were not withdrawn from France untill its fall, they make have been vunerable but they still helped slow the advance of the Axis forces eventually resulting in the miracle at Dunkirk, not forgeting the French airforce aswell.

and if you ask how i know this its because my grandpa was a WOP/AG in 88 squadron and his serveice record stated "in the field 3.9.39 untill 16 june 1940"

i would recommend a good book by norman franks called "valiant wings" if you want to read about the heroism of the battle and blenhiem squadrons and their exploits, it was an obsolete aircraft but the men inside still made them deadly to the enemy.

i for one would love to fly in the defiant and even more in the battle just to see what my grandpa saw.

Beaufort-RAF
05-23-2006, 07:07 AM
Originally posted by x6BL_Brando:

Seriously - I can go with the Defiant in its night-fighter role where it was very successful

It's a bit of a myth that the Defiant was particularly successful as a night fighter.


Although lacking speed and defensive armament and therefore totally unsuitable for unescorted daylight operations the Battle will always be remembered for the heroic attacks on the bridges at Maastricht and Sedan following the German invasion in May 1940.
And that was it. All six Battles were shot down and the plane was withdrawn from France.

Don't know were you got the idea of brief action from, the Battle was used extensively during the Battle of France, hence the high losses.


would recommend a good book by norman franks called "valiant wings" if you want to read about the heroism of the battle and blenhiem squadrons and their exploits

Absolutely, great book. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Feathered_IV
05-23-2006, 07:18 AM
Isn't the defiant's turret a kind of universal item that could be reused in other BoB era RAF aircraft too?

DuxCorvan
05-23-2006, 07:38 AM
As far as they don't have the AI ubergunners we have in FB/PF... that would make them far more effective that they were in reality. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

leitmotiv
05-23-2006, 07:39 AM
In 1940 the Boulton-Paul quad .303 turret was unique to the Deffy, Feathered_IV. The English put it on the early unturreted Liberators they received from the U.S. in 1941, and, later, on other bombers. Guess what gang? The sodding horrible Defiant nearly became the standard RAF home defense fighter. The Air Staff hated the Spitfire and the Hurricane because they were all Trenchardist bomber men. They thought fighters were a waste of money because they believed bombers would blow right through them with their speed and firepower. The only fighter they could comprehend was a fighter with a bomber turret---the Defiant. Remember, the RAF did not think they would ever have to deal with German single-seat fighters---the Air Staff thought Holland and Belgium's neutrality would be respected, and France would never fall. They believed the Defiants would massacre the German bombers, and the RAF bombers would deliver a crushing blow to German morale ending the war. The Air Staff tried to get the Spit and Hurry cancelled in favor of the Defiant, but Dowding fought them in a bitter bureaucratic battle and won. So, when you think of it, the Defiant is a very important "what if?" airplane. Imagine if the RAF had had to face the Luftwaffe with 600 Defiants in July 1940. I'm going to get THE TURRET FIGHTERS, thanks for the tip, Frantish.

Roast
05-23-2006, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
In 1940 the Boulton-Paul quad .303 turret was unique to the Deffy, Feathered_IV. The English put it on the early unturreted Liberators they received from the U.S. in 1941, and, later, on other bombers. Guess what gang? The sodding horrible Defiant nearly became the standard RAF home defense fighter. The Air Staff hated the Spitfire and the Hurricane because they were all Trenchardist bomber men. They thought fighters were a waste of money because they believed bombers would blow right through them with their speed and firepower. The only fighter they could comprehend was a fighter with a bomber turret---the Defiant. Remember, the RAF did not think they would ever have to deal with German single-seat fighters---the Air Staff thought Holland and Belgium's neutrality would be respected, and France would never fall. They believed the Defiants would massacre the German bombers, and the RAF bombers would deliver a crushing blow to German morale ending the war. The Air Staff tried to get the Spit and Hurry cancelled in favor of the Defiant, but Dowding fought them in a bitter bureaucratic battle and won. So, when you think of it, the Defiant is a very important "what if?" airplane. Imagine if the RAF had had to face the Luftwaffe with 600 Defiants in July 1940. I'm going to get THE TURRET FIGHTERS, thanks for the tip, Frantish.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

http://www.luijken.com/images/DXXIbanner.jpg

leitmotiv
05-23-2006, 10:56 AM
I approve of the Fokker D.XXI for either IL-2 or B OF BRIT, Roast!!!

DuxCorvan
05-23-2006, 04:35 PM
I thought that Blacburn Roc and Skua were earlier examples of the same concept, tho -and even poorer performers.

leitmotiv
05-23-2006, 07:54 PM
Blackburn Skua was a Royal Navy dive bomber with no turret. The Roc was the Skua modified to carry the same Boulton-Paul turret used on the Defiant. The Royal Navy was imitating the RAF. Few Rocs were made---the Royal Navy elected to go with the Fairey Fulmar two-man (no turret) fighter.

Destroyer110
05-23-2006, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by x6BL_Brando:
Ha ha, you must be someone who enjoys getting killed horribly and frequently http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

What with the Defiant and the Fairey Battle you mentioned in another thread - you have to be suicidal http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Seriously - I can go with the Defiant in its night-fighter role where it was very successful, but its vulnerability as a day-fighter had it withdrawn from that role in short order - first operational sortie on 12 May 1940...the unit suffered its first losses the following day, when five out of six aircraft were shot down by Bf 109s in large dogfight. The Defiant was never designed to dogfight with single-seat fighters and losses soon mounted. By the end of May 1940, it had become very clear that the Defiant was no match for the Bf 109 and ... moved to airfields away from the south coast of England

Although lacking speed and defensive armament and therefore totally unsuitable for unescorted daylight operations the Battle will always be remembered for the heroic attacks on the bridges at Maastricht and Sedan following the German invasion in May 1940.
And that was it. All six Battles were shot down and the plane was withdrawn from France. Some raids were carried out on the Channel ports but all planes had been relegated to training by September 1940. This site has good info http://www.jaapteeuwen.com/ww2aircraft/html%20pages/FAIREY%20BATTLE.htm

I can't help thinking that it's hardly worth bothering to spend time on making obsolescent types flyable. The Battle will always be a target drone; unable to defend itself it can only serve perhaps as a tempting piece of bait to draw down the 109's. I'd prefer not to be in it at the time!

Likewise the the Def in daylight. I'm starting to fancy the nightfighter though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

B.


I think you'll find the Defiant a better day fighter than history has indicated. BUT it requires 2 people highly trained and synced .. and squadron tactics that are suitable. Line astern ,decending, corkskrewing, might work.

Anyway, we can test it once SOW is released and a flyable defiant added.

Arm_slinger
05-24-2006, 10:55 AM
I'd be up for a flyable defiant http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Top_Gun_1_0_1
05-24-2006, 02:36 PM
BTW,


BOB has no!:
(Flyable)

*B-17
*B-24
*B-26
*B-29
*Lancaster Bomeber
*FW-200

wee NEED this bombers alright !!!

Low_Flyer_MkVb
05-24-2006, 02:39 PM
er....oh, nevermind. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif