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View Full Version : Shotguns, Machineguns, and Sniper rifles -impractical in R6:Vegas?



Sephlock
02-09-2007, 12:10 PM
This post is a multi-parter, so bear with me here.

-----------

Where is there ever an area where you can use a sniper rifle wherein you cannot easily use an assault rifle (or even an mp7) with a scope to greater effect?

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Aren't the pump action shotguns really REALLY bad, because:

1: If you miss, you die.

2: If you hit, but theres more than one enemy in the room, you die.

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Since theres no ability to go prone (like there is in GRAW), is there ANY use for LMGs? They seem uncontrollable even with the stock (which I never seem to see, even when I select them... speaking of which, why would you ever NOT select them?)

... and even if they WERE controllable, wouldn't they essentially be inaccurate rifles with really big clips?

Who here is ever actually intimidated into taking cover by someone using a machinegun? Wouldn't you be more inclined to laugh and shoot the machinegunner in the head as he inaccurately sprays your general area?

----

Hell, while we're at it, whats the concensus on these weapons? Is the Spas really good enough to justify the rank required to use it? Is it better than the autoshotty? Is it even that much better than the other pump shotguns?

Whats the best machinegun? Sniper rifle?

Sephlock
02-09-2007, 12:10 PM
This post is a multi-parter, so bear with me here.

-----------

Where is there ever an area where you can use a sniper rifle wherein you cannot easily use an assault rifle (or even an mp7) with a scope to greater effect?

-----------

Aren't the pump action shotguns really REALLY bad, because:

1: If you miss, you die.

2: If you hit, but theres more than one enemy in the room, you die.

-----------

Since theres no ability to go prone (like there is in GRAW), is there ANY use for LMGs? They seem uncontrollable even with the stock (which I never seem to see, even when I select them... speaking of which, why would you ever NOT select them?)

... and even if they WERE controllable, wouldn't they essentially be inaccurate rifles with really big clips?

Who here is ever actually intimidated into taking cover by someone using a machinegun? Wouldn't you be more inclined to laugh and shoot the machinegunner in the head as he inaccurately sprays your general area?

----

Hell, while we're at it, whats the concensus on these weapons? Is the Spas really good enough to justify the rank required to use it? Is it better than the autoshotty? Is it even that much better than the other pump shotguns?

Whats the best machinegun? Sniper rifle?

ravenfire06
02-09-2007, 12:14 PM
hopefully there is never prone in rainbow. thats not the game style.

Sephlock
02-09-2007, 12:33 PM
But using LMGs is?

I'm not a military man, so feel free to correct me, but.... I was under the impression that (Rambo aside) the proper use of an LMG involves being prone (or otherwise braced in some way). Or am I thinking of HMGs?

wy_east
02-09-2007, 01:15 PM
LMG's can be used "on the run" in street-to-street fighting. That is, the squad moves until they make first contact, the LMG braces himself against a corner and lays down supressing fire to give the rest of the squad a few moments to deploy into position and engage.

But that tactic doesn't work as well here as an SMG'er just bolsters up a couple seconds of nerve and headshots the LMG as bullets spray wildly around them. The only thing you can really do is blind fire to supress a corridor or choke point while the rest of your team deploys into position. Doesn't really keep the enemy from firing back - just keeps them from advancing on your position for a moment.

bent_toe
02-09-2007, 01:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ravenfire06:
hopefully there is never prone in rainbow. thats not the game style. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is highly rainbow if you ask me.

The sniper rifles are very underpowered in this game, 1 out of 10 shots i get a 1 shot 1 kill, usually i need 2 and sometimes 3 shots to kill an opponent, that should not be the case with sniper rifles, a hit anywhere on the torso or head should be an instant kill (in a game) or else it spoils the point of being a sniper.

All sniper rifles takes a long time to reload and it only holds 5 bullets, so in my opinion they are way underpowered, therefore they should be a 1 shot 1 kill.

wy_east
02-09-2007, 01:40 PM
Sniper rifle are underpowered - mainly in terms of accuracy. But in terms of gameplay I didn't mind it so much. With a sniper rifle I could control a skybridge on LVU, but not against a coordinated wave of 4 guys coming across, which I thought was pretty fair. I can *easily* command a corridor in something like Counterstrike and it upsets the balance of the game when 1 guy can hold off 4-6 guys with ease.

But in *comparison* with SMGs, the gameplay balance is upset. Snipers are better at long range than AR's. LMG's are better at supression fire than AR's and snipers. But SMG's trump them all, and that's what makes the other weapons seem ineffectual by comparison.

Garden_Tool
02-09-2007, 02:30 PM
(Great Topic)

I agree that the sniper rifles are underpowered by far. Even if you manage to hit someone in the chest and he lives he can still run into a corner until his health regenerates. I'm not going to go off and say that there is a problem with the new "halo" health system that alot of games are incorporating now. I just feel that the snipers were integrated poorly and really don't belong in the atmosphere of Vegas. Call of Duty 2 pulled it off well. Almost too well; a shot to the chest, ur dead... sounds half decent to me.

But, then you have to look at it from another standpoint. Ubi didn't make this game to be realistic. It is rainbow, and I think people are forgetting that is what has changed over the years. Regardless of realism or not, some of the weapons in the game are virtually useless, and that still is no good.

ravenfire06
02-09-2007, 06:44 PM
the BAR in WWII was a LMG and it was fired on the run and prone.. multi purpose mg

Sephlock
02-09-2007, 06:56 PM
Just out of curiosity, wheres the line drawn between an LMG and a Rifle anyway? The BAR looks pretty rifle-like to me...

And what about my shotgun questions? Is the Spas worth it? Is it that much better than the other pump shotties? Is it better than the autoshotty?

D---Fingers
02-10-2007, 01:06 AM
i'd have to agree with you on the snipers. there is nothing a sniper rifle can do in this game that most AR's cant already do. i was REALLY disappointed in the sniper mechanics in this game since every single R6 game i have ever played starting from original R6 has had very important uses for the sniper. in this game even in single player i have not found one practical use outside of using one for the sake of using one.


pump shotguns though, OMG they are so satisfying to use on very tight maps like casino vault. true you have to aim carefully since you really only get one shot, but it takes a bit of skill to master one. they really come in handy in maps like vault and library.


LMGs.... bleh. the ONLY reason they offer them in MP is because they already modeled the gun for the SP missions and the fact that there are co-op and t-hunt missions in MP. i have never seen any use for an LMG in any adversarial mode in this game. in fact the only reason why someone would use an LMG is either they are new and dont know better or, they are too "leet" and want to embarass someone by handicapping themselves using such a useless weapon to kill them. bragging rights. nothing more.

Sephlock
02-10-2007, 01:56 AM
Pump shotties may be satisfying, but as I said, if there is more than one enemy around the corner/in the room you just entered, you're screwed.

And don't make me repeat the autoshotty/spas questions http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.


Concerning LMGs: I find they aren't terribly useful in Co-op and T-Hunt missions either... I was wondering if I was just using them wrong, or what.

I mean, the AI doesn't seem terribly intimidated by the hail of (inaccurate) bullets, and having to burst fire in order to hit anything makes me feel like I'm just using a really inaccurate rifle.

To add insult to injury, the increased ammo is largely an illusion due to a lower number of "clips" compared to other weapons, and the inaccuracy of the weapon.

SixteenBit
02-10-2007, 06:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ravenfire06:
hopefully there is never prone in rainbow. thats not the game style. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif Was your first RB6 game Lockdown?

BYOB Kenobi
02-10-2007, 04:30 PM
Shotguns become more affective as you get used to their strengths and weaknesses. You learn where to pick your battles and how to hit, run, hit, run, repeat until you clear out multi-tango situations.

I still can't tell a difference between the spas12 and 870MCS... I don't even know if there are pluses and minuses to using any of the 3 pump shotguns.

LMGs... worthless. I've been determined to get good with one of them, but there is just not a situation where you are dominant. Range... too inacurate. Up close... rate of fire is too low. Moving? Yeah right.

As the Devs said, the longest distance you can shoot a bullet in this game is 80 meters... read that again and let it sink in. That's how messed up the scale is in this game... so thus... sniper rifles should be removed from the game to free up space.

adio540
02-10-2007, 07:12 PM
well the AI is just gay with the spas you turn a corner when they have their back turned your basically already dead

Super Robot 7
02-11-2007, 08:25 AM
Well right now in the war on terror, you see a squad of soldiers doing house to house combat and you always see at least one guy with a LMG.

BYOB Kenobi
02-12-2007, 12:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SuperRobot7:
Well right now in the war on terror, you see a squad of soldiers doing house to house combat and you always see at least one guy with a LMG. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's because real people with real heads that have real bullets flying towards them DUCK!

LMGs are for suppression (I'm not military, but a lot of guys here are... they will know better than I do) in close quarters situations.

Try taking a M249 and spraying in a team sharpshooter round and see how well you "suppress" the other team.

maxx_death_4u
02-12-2007, 02:21 PM
I don't think the spas in noticably better, than any of the others but it's the one I use (with a laser). You do have to "hit-n-move", and save your grenades for multiple enemies. I also had much better luck with the shotties after I dropped my armor to 0 (easier to hit-n-move)

The spas has much more distance than the xm26 (Which is ALWAYS restricted, so it's pointless) most people only get one kill at a time with it anyway (they "waste" all their shots to get that 1 kill).

My new hobby is putting a laser on the mg36 and bum rushing people, they never know what the hell to think http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Garden_Tool
02-12-2007, 07:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BYOBKenobi:
LMGs... worthless. I've been determined to get good with one of them, but there is just not a situation where you are dominant. Range... too inacurate. Up close... rate of fire is too low. Moving? Yeah right.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm, for some reason my experience with the MG36 differs from yours, apparently. I have had alot of good rounds with that gun. When in a good server, I always manage to hit targets from 40 meters. It's got a good load of bullets and comes equip with a reflex scope. I think the problem people have with the LMG's is their ADHD. People don't feel like crouching in one spot and aiming for a decent shot anymore. When I do, I have gotten off at least 2 kills a round easily. Impractical? I don't believe so, but thats just me.

randolfphe
02-13-2007, 01:24 AM
actually prone is and should be the rainbow style. sniper rifles and machineguns are deadly accurate while prone along with almost all the weapons. you are better concealed(especially if prone is worked in with cover mode) in counter terrorist operations i'm sure they've got people prone on rooftops with sniper rifles

PowerAnimalx
02-13-2007, 01:57 AM
I'm just going to get my opinion out there. Sniper Rifles and LMGs are basicly just ways to handicap yourself. Sure, I can kill someone with my MG36 or snipe someone with my SV98 but why should I? Anything I can do with any LMG or sniper I can do better with my MTAR21. Now shotguns on the other hand are very useful weapons. Depending on how I feel at that very moment I either use the 870 or the Spas [ because I really don't see a difference ] and I do just fine with it. The trick is to always use the laser sight. It really helps for those long shots or even if you get in a bouncing up close gun battle. But hey like I said these are just my opinions. I mean just today a friend of mine [ on my host ] went 30 - 7 with the scout tactical against a decent team. Was he camping in our base? Sure. But you would have to be stupid to try and run and gun against a team using assault rifles and SMGs.

Kitsuno
02-13-2007, 10:28 AM
I've used a sniper on LVU T-hunt.
I've used the shotgun in player matches.

They work perfect. Take into consideration, the rank requirements for the Spaz, a captain, means that you won't get any noobs running around with it(spawning at least)

sloppymeatwad
02-13-2007, 12:34 PM
the problem with the shotguns is that you always reload an extra shell for some reason

BYOB Kenobi
02-13-2007, 01:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Garden_Tool:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BYOBKenobi:
LMGs... worthless. I've been determined to get good with one of them, but there is just not a situation where you are dominant. Range... too inacurate. Up close... rate of fire is too low. Moving? Yeah right.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm, for some reason my experience with the MG36 differs from yours, apparently. I have had alot of good rounds with that gun. When in a good server, I always manage to hit targets from 40 meters. It's got a good load of bullets and comes equip with a reflex scope. I think the problem people have with the LMG's is their ADHD. People don't feel like crouching in one spot and aiming for a decent shot anymore. When I do, I have gotten off at least 2 kills a round easily. Impractical? I don't believe so, but thats just me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have no problem getting kills with them, it's just a situation where you have to weigh the plusses and minuses against your play style. I normally DO sit back, take good shots, and move carefully, but if I get up close with someone I'd rather have a Tavor or FAMAS. If I'm at range, I'd rather have a Tavor. If I'm having to rush a room I'd rather have a shotgun.

The advantage to having a LMG is what? Magazine size? I know the M249 hits hard, but with the recoil control stock you're hoping for someone to come reasonably close to you while you are sitting still. If you run into a room and take a position and someone's in there with you with anything BUT a LMG he will kill you more than half the time.

A better way to say it would be that I can't figure out when it would be the BEST choice. Sure, it's a choice that can work, but depending on what you are planning on doing, there are better choices.

If I'm going to rush the basement at streets I'm going to need to be able to hit both near and far targets. I'll most likely go with a FAMAS or Tavor. If I'm rushing at Vault, I'll need to take out several people quickly at very close distance... shotgun time. If I'm sitting back at Killhouse watching the roof, I'm going to need to hit at range, I'll probably bring a Tavor, FAMAS, G3K, or M8.

I've gone over pretty much everything I do and I am yet to find a situation where a LMG would be the BEST for the situation.

It might be because I just can't get used to one, but it also might be because there really ISN'T a situation where a LMG is the BEST POSSIBLE choice.