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BSS_Vidar
10-22-2004, 11:01 AM
I had made multiple posts on this subject, but as a veteren (real) pilot and just a few actual carrier landings under my belt. I was pretty much blown off.

Now I have this wonderful piece of work in my grubby hands I've done some carrier qual work in both a dogfight setting and a coop setting.

Independent/Differential Braking on the boat is inadequate for flight deck ops.
While it IS manageable on a static carrier, you can just forget about it on a moving flat top. To get your plane to turn around is practicly impossible. It's probably something to do with the motion of the carrier hindering good taxi control. In a future patch, axis for both brakes please, or even the command to chock one wheele may fix the "BUG".

I was testing this with no other aircraft on deck. With a packed deck, it's gonna be carnage folks.

Other than that, it's a thing of beauty.

crazyivan1970
10-22-2004, 11:03 AM
Was PF released in the States Vidar? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

BSS_Vidar
10-22-2004, 11:21 AM
No. I couldn't wait, so I bought the Ubisoft deal with the post cards out of France. Just received it this morning. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

It cost me more that twice the price, but it's worth it.

georgeo76
10-22-2004, 11:22 AM
Well, what do you think of the way PF handles the takeoff/landing aspect? It would be nice to get a review from someone w/ real-life experience

crazyivan1970
10-22-2004, 11:25 AM
Ok then, you can proceed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BSS_Vidar
10-22-2004, 11:30 AM
Aircraft handeling in the air is very nice. Bleeding off speed in the carrier brake is a challenge if you come into the pattern too hot. I think bleed off should be a tad more pronounced than it is now, but in a dogfight, the retained energy state will help.

I have found that maintaining 150-160 KPH when rolling in on final is a good speed to maintain a certain amount of Angle-of-Attack (AoA). This increases success rate for engaging the wires.

Bouncing: The Corsair was known for this problem in its initial versions; however, I think the bouncing tendency of the current flight model needs to be toned out a bit.

That's my account of 3 hours of CQ testing Pacific Fights just this morning. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Chuck_Older
10-22-2004, 12:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BSS_Vidar:
Aircraft handeling in the air is very nice. Bleeding off speed in the carrier brake is a challenge if you come into the pattern too hot. I think bleed off should be a tad more pronounced than it is now, but in a dogfight, the retained energy state will help.

I have found that maintaining 150-160 KPH when rolling in on final is a good speed to maintain a certain amount of Angle-of-Attack (AoA). This increases success rate for engaging the wires.

Bouncing: The Corsair was known for this problem in its initial versions; however, I think the bouncing tendency of the current flight model needs to be toned out a bit.

That's my account of 3 hours of CQ testing Pacific Fights just this morning. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is the type of person PF caters to http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I can't wait to spend a few hours learning to catch a wire. Although, the only thing I've ever flown was a car that soared over a curb into somebody's backyard. Wheeeeeeee!

Reschke
10-22-2004, 12:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BSS_Vidar:
Bouncing: The Corsair was known for this problem in its initial versions; however, I think the bouncing tendency of the current flight model needs to be toned out a bit.

That's my account of 3 hours of CQ testing Pacific Fights just this morning. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you tried out all versions of the Corsair in the game? I know that the -1A version of the Corsair pretty much eliminated the bounce on landing. So if this is with all versions of the Corsair then I say patch it but if only with the F4U-1 then I say leave it as is and only check to make sure the other versions are operating as they should.

BSS_Vidar
10-22-2004, 01:44 PM
I have not noticed a difference in the "Bounce" characteristics from one Corsair to the next. I've been flying the D, but when I go up against Uber German flight models. The C with the 4x 20mm cannon are gonna mess up a bunch of LW's days. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif The speed and roll rate of the Corsair is gonna make a FW and 109 driver think twice about trying to either dive away or zoom climb.

I just finished making a track that demonstrates the actual parameters for a proper CV Case-1 recovery. It shows altitdudes, speeds, and a good proper groove-length. The next one will be with a fellow BSS member demonstrating how to disperce a formation in "The Brake" and establishing "interval" when another member gets PF. Just don't know how to share tracks with everyone yet.

This is what you'll be seeing the Blacksheep of the BSS Pen doing around the boat. Can't wait to teach anyone who's wanting to learn it. It's the most fun and challenging thing you'll do in PF without pulling the trigger.

S!

BuzzU
10-22-2004, 02:03 PM
Don't take this the wrong way, but I find it strange that an American real pilot flying American planes would use km/h to describe the speed. No?

NIGHTBARON
10-22-2004, 02:17 PM
Hello,

Yes, reducing speed when approaching is def a challange in this game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
And dont ya guys think it would be great to have an LSO waving flags to inform that You are too fast? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LStarosta
10-22-2004, 02:20 PM
Just come in at a somewhat shallow angle of descent and when you think your tail is over the arresting cables, flare your nose up rapidly, thus lowering your tail, making it much easier for your hook to catch a cable.

BSS_Vidar
10-22-2004, 02:22 PM
Buzz,
Just reporting what everyone should see on their "speed bar" M8. Having a standard speed bar option like CFS2 does was also one of my requests during the development period, yet that got kicked to the curb too. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

Lstarosta:
That's a bad practice in this sim M8. 9 times out of 10 one wing will depart if too aggressive during the flare which will cause you to flip it over and smack into the deck.

BuzzU
10-22-2004, 02:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BSS_Vidar:
Buzz,
Just reporting what everyone should see on their "speed bar" M8. Having a standard speed bar option like CFS2 does was also one of my requests during the development period, yet that got kicked to the curb too. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

Lstarosta:
That's a bad practice in this sim M8. 9 times out of 10 one wing will depart if too aggressive during the flare which will cause you to flip it over and smack into the deck. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I figured that was it, but doesn't PF have an option to change the speedbar to mph? I heard you have to assign a button, but it's there.

That's why I brought this up. I thought maybe you wern't aware of it.

Fliger747
10-22-2004, 02:58 PM
Haven't had the pleasure of this falling into my hands as yet. Will be over in Europe in a couple of days and might be able to get it there or somewhere on my round the world jaunt.

Thanks to Vidar for his comments. As I recall the differential brakes and speed bar were two issues he plugged, to no avail.

If there was better way to fly these birds the Navy would have figured it out!

BSS_Vidar
10-22-2004, 03:39 PM
That's a negatory Buzz. CFS2 has the option to switch units of meassurement, but not the IL-2 series. Even LOMAC lets you choose.

Here's the numbers in kp/h and Indicated:

Inbound for the Carrier Brake:
* This is the max suggested to manage bleed-off properly prior to the downwind leg for the lead or loan ship braking at the bow.

* Speed is slow enough to start dirtying-up while in the brake for the lead. Wingmen can wait to diryt-up when established downwind.

Alt:------ 240m
---------- 800ft
Speed:-- 310kph
---------- 240kt

Downwind:

Alt:------ 170m
---------- 600ft
Speed:-- 210kph
---------- 150kt max (slower the better)

* Even less for braking wingmen with longer downwind legs after the brake suggested establish 190 kph, 130 kt prior to "Abeam".

At the 90:

Alt:------ 140m
---------- 450ft
Speed:-- 160 kph
---------- 120kt max (slower the better)

Final:

Speed:-- 140-150kph
---------- 90-95kt

Hope you find these helpful.

S!

Jester_159th
10-22-2004, 03:48 PM
Actually you can choose the units on the speedbar Vidar.

Set a key to toggle the speedbar. With PF instead of just toggling on or off it toggles from Km/h through KIAS and mp/h to off.

Didn't see it in the manual but found out by accident when trying to switch the speedbar off for a couple of screenshots!!

BSS_Vidar
10-22-2004, 03:51 PM
OUTSTANDING!!!!

It works!

Now I just need my toe brakes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Thnx

BuzzU
10-22-2004, 04:28 PM
Pretty sure it was in the readme posted on this forum.

PriK
10-22-2004, 04:52 PM
You don't need differential braking just increase throttle and rudder (carefully) while your brakes are on to move around unless PF is a great deal different than FB in this regard on a carrier.

Also, as soon as you "chock-up" your plane no longer has a collision model and other planes will be able to roll right through you. It's one of the concessions that were necessary in making PF, apparantly, since deck elevators couldn't be implemented.

BSS_Vidar
10-22-2004, 07:46 PM
On a stationary carrier, the braking is adequate. But on a moving carrier, you can not turn your plane around. It starts to turn, but the turn arch is way too wide to successfuly do a U-turn. A pivot wheel is unattainable while on a mobile flight deck.

Solution - for now: Don't try it. Just fold up, taxi to the bow, and keep the nose pointed forward till everyone is on board...

Stationary decks allow a room full of pilots to land, take off, and land again several times if you're carfull around others on deck with you.

VF-3Thunderboy
10-22-2004, 10:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I have found that maintaining 150-160 KPH when rolling in on final is a good speed to maintain <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have video of Hellcats "Rolling in",and landing. They roll in, and as they straiten out, they hit the deck.There is little approach time, they just swing it around and boink!, there on deck. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Blottogg
10-23-2004, 12:05 AM
Vidar, thanks for the feedback. Now I'm getting even more jazzed about trying to land on the boat. I gotta take my own advice and get out a little bit before PF shows up in my mailbox.

What spacing are you guys using in the break? 5 sec, 10, 15? How much is needed to clear the cables before the next guy rolls out for his trap?

Thanks also to PriK and Jester. Those two tidbits are probably in the ReadMe, but in my eagerness to try this out when it arrives, I will probably blow past both of them skimming the documentation while the sim loads (most likely the only time I'll look at the documentation for the first couple of hours, in any case.)

IV_JG51_Razor
10-23-2004, 01:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PriK:
You don't need differential braking just increase throttle and rudder (carefully) while your brakes are on to move around unless PF is a great deal different than FB in this regard on a carrier.

Also, as soon as you "chock-up" your plane no longer has a collision model and other planes will be able to roll right through you. It's one of the concessions that were necessary in making PF, apparantly, since deck elevators couldn't be implemented. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Vidar is absolutely correct on this. For an example of what he's talking about, go into a mission with the stormey weather turned on, and try taxiing around a bit. It's doable, but not at all like when there is no wind.

In PF, I have found some planes are more maneuverable on a moving deck than others. I was able to turn a Wildcat (with folded wings) around on an Essex class deck, and taxi back for another takeoff, but forget it on a Jeep carrier. In some ways, this isn't too far off the mark. In RL, they rarely actually taxied around under their own power like they do today. Usually, as soon as they were spotted forward and chocked, the deck apes moved them around.

I'm over in Italy on business and picked up a copy. It is definitely worth the wait guys. Oleg has done it again! Now, if he would just give me a TBF cockpit so that I can retrace my Dad's footsteps through the Pacific, I'll die a happy man. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BSS_Vidar
10-23-2004, 02:27 AM
Blottogg,
To get a good interval between aircraft, we use the 45 degree rule. When a plane in the formation brakes, the rest of the formation holds upwind heading until the aircraft that broke ahead is 45 degrees behind the next in line to brake's left wingtip. Then you're cleared to brake to downwind- and so on through the formation. You'll know you have a good spacing after the brake when one guy is just passing over the end of the flight deck when the guy behind him is just calling/reporting "Abeam". This leaves enough time for the recovered aircraft to raise the hook and taxi out of the wires before the next guy rolls in on final.

S!

VFA-195 Snacky
10-23-2004, 02:32 AM
So have you expanded your duties to PF bouncer now Ivan? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Ok then, you can proceed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>