PDA

View Full Version : Cant seem to kill tanks with the Hs-129 series



stugumby
01-03-2010, 07:57 PM
arrghh I cant seem to kill anything with these planes, using the 37mm gun i can get hits on rear and flank but very few kills. My wingmen strafe from behind and same thing, minimal kills. Also tried the 30mm cannon and 75mm same thing.
Then i tried the 37 mm gun bf-110 and minor improvement, same for me 410. This is in UP 2.0.
any ideas on how to improve scores etc??

AndyJWest
01-03-2010, 08:00 PM
If you are flying an HS-129, it is a mod, and we aren't allowed to help out here. Ask where you got the mod from.

Choctaw111
01-03-2010, 08:10 PM
This sounds more like a gunnery question than a mod question.
Have you tried different aircraft types on the same map?
I was just wondering how other AC stacked up against the 129.

xTHRUDx
01-03-2010, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by stugumby:
arrghh I cant seem to kill anything with these planes, using the 37mm gun i can get hits on rear and flank but very few kills. My wingmen strafe from behind and same thing, minimal kills. Also tried the 30mm cannon and 75mm same thing.
Then i tried the 37 mm gun bf-110 and minor improvement, same for me 410. This is in UP 2.0.
any ideas on how to improve scores etc??

the 3.7 gun has HE rounds instead of AP. try the mk 101 instead.

stugumby
01-03-2010, 09:49 PM
noo, im serious here i used the autopilot and just went along for the ride.. just cant kill the 12x T-34 from UP 2.0.

Ba5tard5word
01-03-2010, 09:54 PM
Try using Il-2's and get back to us.

Noxx0s
01-03-2010, 10:03 PM
What's the deal with all the anti-mod stuff anyways?

I've never seen a mod community despised but so many... Normally it's welcomed.

VW-IceFire
01-03-2010, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by IcyScythe:
What's the deal with all the anti-mod stuff anyways?

I've never seen a mod community despised but so many... Normally it's welcomed.
IL-2 was closed and largely secure for years. Meant a fairly even playing ground... the most minor bug that revealed something was harshly attacked by the competitive community. Also MODs are not officially supported by UbiSoft and thus the moderators have to walk a particular line. Anyways that is off topic.


Originally posted by stugumby:
noo, im serious here i used the autopilot and just went along for the ride.. just cant kill the 12x T-34 from UP 2.0.
Typically killing tanks requires three things to be kept in mind.

1) A large cannon, bomb, or rocket. Typically AP rounds are needed. A high explosive shot (something that makes that explosive puff) will not do. With some guns it alternates HE/AP/HE/AP but others are loaded purely with AP (such as the Stuka Ju-87G-1 model).

2) A direct hit to the top of the tank from the rear aspect. Typically a 45 degree dive is what is needed. Sometimes 30 degrees or less but anything too low and the round bounces right off.

3) Tanks are hard to kill from airplanes in WWII. Aircraft caused more fear and panic in the Normandy campaign than actually killed tanks for instance.

Romanator21
01-04-2010, 12:24 AM
The big pod on the Bf-110 is extremely effective, with one or two hits to a tank. The Ju-87 Cannons are great, but with only 12 rounds, getting a kill can be frustrating, and I haven't mastered it myself. The Hs-129 was pretty unsuccessful from my understanding.

As suggested earlier, aim at the top rear of the tank where the armor is most thin. I don't think the AI is smart enough to use this approach. Often, I find I have very unsuccessful runs and I realise that while I am hitting from the six, I am skirting along less than 100 feet up. A 30 degree+ dive is necessary also.

K_Freddie
01-04-2010, 12:45 AM
Then the tanks rear armour thickness was about half the the fronts. The WW2 Russian IL2 tactic was to fly beyond the front, turn around and hit the Tigers in the rear. They'd then fly in a large circle, repeating this pattern until all tanks were done, run out of ammo, or were shot down.

Their objective was just to put the tank out of action by hitting the 'unprotected' engine area. Anything else was a bonus.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ba5tard5word
01-04-2010, 02:20 AM
We can sort of talk about mods here but we can't give any technical help about them. Ubisoft owns this forum and has some legalese rules about what can be discussed.

Read here about what we can and can't say here:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...3110283/m/7441010176 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/7441010176)



People here aren't anti-mod, we just have rules about what we can do. The UP forums aren't as lively but people there seem pretty helpful.

Jure_502
01-04-2010, 06:07 AM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Typically killing tanks requires three things to be kept in mind.

1) A large cannon, bomb, or rocket. Typically AP rounds are needed. A high explosive shot (something that makes that explosive puff) will not do. With some guns it alternates HE/AP/HE/AP but others are loaded purely with AP (such as the Stuka Ju-87G-1 model).

2) A direct hit to the top of the tank from the rear aspect. Typically a 45 degree dive is what is needed. Sometimes 30 degrees or less but anything too low and the round bounces right off.

Well just tryed this with Ju-87G-1 and Me-110 with Bk 3,7 and my results: BINGO!

With angle of attack anything above 30 degree T-34's went off with a single hit!

My anti-tank mission night mares just ended. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

JG52Karaya-X
01-04-2010, 06:34 AM
The problem with the Hs129 and the Bk37 is that the ammo belting is a mixed AP/HE one such as seen on the Bf110. While I can understand going for such a mix on the Bf110 which mostly used the cannon for anti bomber duties (staying outside the defensive range of the .50CAL guns) I cannot understand why the Hs129 as a CAS aircraft did not receive a similar AP only load as the Ju87G...

LEBillfish
01-04-2010, 07:05 AM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
3) Tanks are hard to kill from airplanes in WWII. Aircraft caused more fear and panic in the Normandy campaign than actually killed tanks for instance.

Except naturally .50 caliber armed aircraft flipping over Tigers..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif.....Sorry, someone had to say it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

K2

csThor
01-04-2010, 07:09 AM
Concerning the Hs 129 we have a mess of loadouts which never saw operational use but lack the most important one: the Mk 103 (which had much better armor penetration values than the Mk 101). The Bk 37 never made it past initial tests on this type as the pod had far too much negative influence on the flight characteristics.
Same goes for the SC 250 and 4x MG 17 loadout which, even though specified by LW documents, were never used on the front for the task of the Hs 129 had already changed from general ground-attack to tank-busting by the time the type had matured into the B-2.

Besides it's my firm belief that both T-34 versions were given "generous" amounts of armor in relation to other tanks. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Frankthetank36
01-04-2010, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:

Typically killing tanks requires three things to be kept in mind.

1) A large cannon, bomb, or rocket. Typically AP rounds are needed. A high explosive shot (something that makes that explosive puff) will not do. With some guns it alternates HE/AP/HE/AP but others are loaded purely with AP (such as the Stuka Ju-87G-1 model).

2) A direct hit to the top of the tank from the rear aspect. Typically a 45 degree dive is what is needed. Sometimes 30 degrees or less but anything too low and the round bounces right off.

3) Tanks are hard to kill from airplanes in WWII. Aircraft caused more fear and panic in the Normandy campaign than actually killed tanks for instance.

So then why are IL-2's considered such great anti-tank planes? Sure, they can carry rockets and bombs, but so can most planes. Most of them were equipped with only 20 or 23mm cannons, which aren't particularly large, only the IL-2 3M had 37mm cannons and it wasn't produced nearly as much as the smaller cannon versions. The other day I flew a ground attack mission in an N1K2 and had no problem wiping out tanks with the 20mm cannons, they just don't go down in one hit like they would if I had a bigger gun. Not sure if you guys are just coming in too low or what. IMO what makes tank-busting difficult is that they are tiny and tough to spot from the air (especially in the ETO where there are a lot more roads and navigation is trickier), but once you see them they are dead meat if you have a cannon or anything bigger.

And I am still confused as to why some people here are so anti-mod. It's one thing if the mods let you fly around in invincible UFOs, it's another if they just make AI planes flyable and torpedoes more realistic (and difficult to use).

Ba5tard5word
01-04-2010, 04:06 PM
Meanwhile, the effects of an Hs-129's mega gun on a Halifax bomber... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/8493/04012010230446.jpg

VW-IceFire
01-04-2010, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by Frankthetank36:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:

Typically killing tanks requires three things to be kept in mind.

1) A large cannon, bomb, or rocket. Typically AP rounds are needed. A high explosive shot (something that makes that explosive puff) will not do. With some guns it alternates HE/AP/HE/AP but others are loaded purely with AP (such as the Stuka Ju-87G-1 model).

2) A direct hit to the top of the tank from the rear aspect. Typically a 45 degree dive is what is needed. Sometimes 30 degrees or less but anything too low and the round bounces right off.

3) Tanks are hard to kill from airplanes in WWII. Aircraft caused more fear and panic in the Normandy campaign than actually killed tanks for instance.

So then why are IL-2's considered such great anti-tank planes? Sure, they can carry rockets and bombs, but so can most planes. Most of them were equipped with only 20 or 23mm cannons, which aren't particularly large, only the IL-2 3M had 37mm cannons and it wasn't produced nearly as much as the smaller cannon versions. The other day I flew a ground attack mission in an N1K2 and had no problem wiping out tanks with the 20mm cannons, they just don't go down in one hit like they would if I had a bigger gun. Not sure if you guys are just coming in too low or what. IMO what makes tank-busting difficult is that they are tiny and tough to spot from the air (especially in the ETO where there are a lot more roads and navigation is trickier), but once you see them they are dead meat if you have a cannon or anything bigger.

And I am still confused as to why some people here are so anti-mod. It's one thing if the mods let you fly around in invincible UFOs, it's another if they just make AI planes flyable and torpedoes more realistic (and difficult to use). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
IL-2's were great support aircraft and there is no doubt about it. What is popularized, however, is the fact that the IL-2 was a tank killer and that is largely sensational propaganda on the face of it. To utterly destroy a tank requires fairly significant firepower...even tank to tank changed significantly over the years of WWII and killing some tanks became very difficult.

IL-2s (and Stukas with the 37mm cannons attached) disabled and "killed" scores of tanks to be sure. But not all of these were totally destroyed. Many tanks were quite small...even the ones that we consider large for WWII aren't really that big.

In IL-2 I'd question that you actually killed a full on tank with a N1K2. The N1K2 has relatively low velocity 20mm cannons armed with mostly high explosive rounds - not exactly tank killing material.

You can kill some armored vehicles (half tracks for instance) with 20mm rounds but proper tanks... no. Try a Panzer IV or a Panzer V. Even a Panzer III I doubt would go down from the N1K2's cannons. Some of the lighter tanks you can kill in game with the IL-2s 23mm VYa cannons which were quite powerful and fired large shells.

Ba5tard5word
01-04-2010, 04:21 PM
A few days ago I flew an Il-2 in a co-op mission, not sure which one but it was one without the rear gunner. I was able to kill several tanks, first with what seemed to require two rocket hits, then later on by being persistent and hitting them with my cannons. Not sure what cannon type or what type of tank they were but I was able to do it then had enough ammo left to go shoot down a bunch of nearby Bf-110's.

Romanator21
01-04-2010, 05:46 PM
Il-2s have a ton of ammunition, and were meant to loiter for a long time, make multiple passes (which is nearly suicidal) and totally demolish the target. However, they are easy meat. Against 2 Bf-109 F-2s and 20mm flack 7 out of my flight of 8 IL-2s were destroyed, all pilots KIA. I barely managed to limp back with gaping holes in my left wing, and possibly heavy damage to my tail (which I couldn't see behind the headrest). I managed to kill only one train cart that mission (and those tend to blow up after 1 .303 round.)

At least Bf-110s are fast and have a couple engines. Hs-129 seem fine, but from my understanding the fuel tanks are unarmored, making them easy meat.

It would seem that the T-34s are stronger, but the only way to know for sure to look at the code.

If the Il-2 itself is over-modeled,it would be the accuracy of the rockets (which travel on rails) and its lightness. With a full load it just leaps off the runway, and cruises on less than 50% power. Pullout from a dive requires no effort.

Frankthetank36
01-04-2010, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:

In IL-2 I'd question that you actually killed a full on tank with a N1K2. The N1K2 has relatively low velocity 20mm cannons armed with mostly high explosive rounds - not exactly tank killing material.

You can kill some armored vehicles (half tracks for instance) with 20mm rounds but proper tanks... no. Try a Panzer IV or a Panzer V. Even a Panzer III I doubt would go down from the N1K2's cannons. Some of the lighter tanks you can kill in game with the IL-2s 23mm VYa cannons which were quite powerful and fired large shells.

Well, I shot at some ground forces and got an "enemy tank destroyed" message. I was REALLY surprised in a later mission when I used an Oscar's 12.7mm guns and got another "enemy tank destroyed" message. I am not sure whether or not these tanks were damaged, but the ones I attacked with the George sure looked fine. Do halftracks and stuff count as "tanks" in the message?

So if high explosive is not the way to attack tanks, then why are rockets the weapon of choice against them (particularly for infantry)?

The_Stealth_Owl
01-04-2010, 06:07 PM
Yak-15 is suprisingly a good ground attack aircraft, try it!

Frankthetank36
01-04-2010, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by Romanator21:
Il-2s have a ton of ammunition, and were meant to loiter for a long time, make multiple passes (which is nearly suicidal) and totally demolish the target. However, they are easy meat. Against 2 Bf-109 F-2s and 20mm flack 7 out of my flight of 8 IL-2s were destroyed, all pilots KIA. I barely managed to limp back with gaping holes in my left wing, and possibly heavy damage to my tail (which I couldn't see behind the headrest). I managed to kill only one train cart that mission (and those tend to blow up after 1 .303 round.)

At least Bf-110s are fast and have a couple engines. Hs-129 seem fine, but from my understanding the fuel tanks are unarmored, making them easy meat.

It would seem that the T-34s are stronger, but the only way to know for sure to look at the code.

If the Il-2 itself is over-modeled,it would be the accuracy of the rockets (which travel on rails) and its lightness. With a full load it just leaps off the runway, and cruises on less than 50% power. Pullout from a dive requires no effort.

The IL-2 is quite durable though, even if it needs an escort. Try getting hit by AA in a Beaufighter or something and you will be dead after a hit or two, whereas the IL-2 can often survive a head on attack on the AA guns. Not sure what they were thinking when they used a liquid cooled inline engine on a ground attack plane, though.

Sillius_Sodus
01-04-2010, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by Frankthetank36:

So if high explosive is not the way to attack tanks, then why are rockets the weapon of choice against them (particularly for infantry)?

Armour piecing cannon rounds usually use kinetic energy to blast through armour plate. Infantry weapons, i.e., the bazooka or Panzerfaust use focused chemical and/or explosive energy to burn through the armour. Those rounds do explode, and can be effective against buildings and other soft targets, it's the focused energy of their warheads that works against tanks.

Ba5tard5word
01-04-2010, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by Romanator21:

If the Il-2 itself is over-modeled,it would be the accuracy of the rockets (which travel on rails) and its lightness. With a full load it just leaps off the runway, and cruises on less than 50% power. Pullout from a dive requires no effort.

I believe in UP the rockets tend to shoot out erratically and one will often go spinning off away from where you meant it to, so you have to use them pretty close to target, but I've only flown that one mission with the Il-2 so I haven't really seen this yet. I was firing my rockets pretty close up and they went where I wanted them to.

Ba5tard5word
01-04-2010, 09:40 PM
I just messed around a little with the Hs-129.

The B-3 version with the giant gun seems a bit hard to get kills with, not least because it makes your plane's nose fly all over after firing. I got direct hits on enemy tanks and they didn't blow up, I wouldn't be surprised if the modeling for its rounds was a bit funny, I tried it on some houses and they just sort of vaporized then smoke would appear later on.

I tried the B-2 version with Bk 3.7 gun pod and it's easier against tanks, I was able to get instant kills on tanks from front and back with one hit. Then the other cannons on it are good for hitting trucks.

I like the Hs-129, it flies very stable so you can fly in low and get right in front of a tank almost at ground level, fire, then pull the stick back and fly away and come back for more. Also it's nice that they put in a pit for it.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8325/0501201043058.jpg

Ba5tard5word
01-04-2010, 09:55 PM
Attacking from the front, I undershot just below this tank then managed to hit it straight on and get a kill from one shot.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/3945/0501201045258.jpg

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/5738/0501201045302.jpg

stugumby
01-04-2010, 10:34 PM
heres the mission up 2.0 northwest europe map

[MAIN]
MAP NWEurope/load.ini
TIME 12.0
CloudType 0
CloudHeight 1000.0
player 3_JG1_00
army 2
playerNum 2
[Wing]
r0100
3_JG1_00
3_JG1_02
3_JG1_01
3_JG1_03
[r0100]
Planes 2
Skill 2
Class air.LAGG_3SERIES35
Fuel 50
weapons kinderwud
[r0100_Way]
TAKEOFF 7698.93 59342.91 0 0 &0
NORMFLY 63192.50 49775.87 500.00 300.00 3_JG1_01 4 &0
NORMFLY 84157.62 22100.16 850.00 300.00 &0
NORMFLY 63747.62 28727.99 850.00 300.00 &0
NORMFLY 26042.25 37593.33 850.00 300.00 &0
LANDING 6619.67 58267.07 0 0 &0
[3_JG1_00]
Planes 4
Skill 2
Class air.HS_129B2
Fuel 60
weapons Wa-1xBK37
[3_JG1_00_Way]
TAKEOFF 85828.35 18622.78 0 0 &0
NORMFLY 66774.36 31715.92 1200.00 375.00 &0
GATTACK 62052.25 34772.09 1200.00 375.00 7_Chief 0 &0
GATTACK 61059.74 33966.69 1200.00 375.00 1_Chief 0 &0
LANDING 85598.28 18617.12 0 0 &0
[3_JG1_02]
Planes 4
Skill 2
Class air.HS_129B2
Fuel 60
weapons R2-1xMk101
[3_JG1_02_Way]
TAKEOFF 85821.76 18629.30 0 0 &0
NORMFLY 66217.72 31343.30 1200.00 375.00 &0
GATTACK 61538.93 34053.54 1200.00 375.00 8_Chief 0 &0
GATTACK 60789.05 33451.53 1200.00 375.00 7_Chief 1 &0
LANDING 85759.83 18596.27 0 0 &0
[3_JG1_01]
Planes 4
Skill 3
Class air.HS_129B2
Fuel 60
weapons R4-4xSC50
[3_JG1_01_Way]
TAKEOFF 85830.21 18621.86 0 0 &0
NORMFLY 84989.30 19155.41 500.00 300.00 &0
NORMFLY 74549.98 27146.67 500.00 300.00 &0
NORMFLY 68992.02 32710.52 700.00 375.00 &0
GATTACK 65837.46 35267.55 700.00 375.00 11_Chief 0 &0
GATTACK 68560.97 35146.30 700.00 375.00 15_Chief 0 &0
LANDING 85852.08 18639.59 0 0 &0
[3_JG1_03]
Planes 2
Skill 1
Class air.FW_190A6
Fuel 100
weapons default
[3_JG1_03_Way]
NORMFLY 86714.70 18175.97 300.00 375.00 &0
LANDING 85832.51 18622.65 0 0 &0
[Chiefs]
0_Chief Trains.Germany_EquipmentATrain/AA 1
7_Chief Armor.12-T34 1
8_Chief Armor.12-T34 1
11_Chief Vehicles.RussiaCarsColumnA 1
12_Chief Vehicles.3-ZIS6_fuel 1
9_Chief Vehicles.RussiaCarsColumnC 1
13_Chief Vehicles.RussiaCarsColumnG 1
15_Chief Vehicles.RussiaCarsColumnG 1
16_Chief Vehicles.BA_64 1
17_Chief Vehicles.4-GAZ_AAA 1
1_Chief Vehicles.RussiaCarsColumnE 1
[0_Chief_Road]
63700.00 67900.00 20.00 0 23 5.555555820465088
64300.00 67300.00 20.00
64300.00 65100.00 20.00
63700.00 64500.00 20.00
63700.00 63900.00 20.00
63900.00 63700.00 20.00
62900.00 62700.00 20.00
62900.00 54300.00 20.00
61700.00 53100.00 20.00
60500.00 53100.00 20.00
58500.00 51100.00 20.00
58500.00 50100.00 20.00
58700.00 49900.00 20.00
58500.00 49700.00 20.00
57700.00 49700.00 20.00
57500.00 49900.00 20.00
55500.00 49900.00 20.00
51700.00 46100.00 20.00
41900.00 46100.00 20.00
39500.00 43700.00 20.00
37500.00 43700.00 20.00
35300.00 41500.00 20.00
34700.00 41500.00 20.00
[7_Chief_Road]
61142.71 33744.73 120.00 0 4 2.0833334922790527
61300.00 33900.00 20.00
62100.00 34700.00 20.00
62358.24 34958.21 120.00 0 4 2.0833334922790527
62500.00 35100.00 20.00
67900.00 35100.00 20.00
68070.73 35100.39 120.00 0 6 2.0833334922790527
68300.00 35100.00 20.00
71300.00 35100.00 20.00
71700.00 34700.00 20.00
75900.00 34700.00 20.00
76421.20 34106.37 120.00
[8_Chief_Road]
61679.96 34278.08 120.00 0 5 2.0833334922790527
61900.00 34500.00 20.00
62500.00 35100.00 20.00
71300.00 35100.00 20.00
71530.33 34870.33 120.00 0 4 2.0833334922790527
71700.00 34700.00 20.00
76700.00 34700.00 20.00
76996.35 34545.60 120.00
[11_Chief_Road]
65302.93 35100.47 120.00 0 6 2.3611111640930176
65500.00 35100.00 20.00
71300.00 35100.00 20.00
71700.00 34700.00 20.00
77100.00 34700.00 20.00
77691.41 34739.87 120.00
[12_Chief_Road]
61968.47 34565.73 120.00 0 5 2.6388890743255615
62100.00 34700.00 20.00
62500.00 35100.00 20.00
64900.00 35100.00 20.00
65140.54 35100.12 120.00 0 6 2.6388890743255615
65300.00 35100.00 20.00
71300.00 35100.00 20.00
71700.00 34700.00 20.00
75500.00 34700.00 20.00
76191.20 34063.81 120.00
[9_Chief_Road]
58979.09 31976.84 120.00 0 8 2.6388890743255615
59100.00 32100.00 20.00
59300.00 32300.00 20.00
59300.00 32500.00 20.00
60100.00 33300.00 20.00
60700.00 33300.00 20.00
62100.00 34700.00 20.00
62242.52 34843.04 120.00 0 6 2.6388890743255615
62500.00 35100.00 20.00
71300.00 35100.00 20.00
71700.00 34700.00 20.00
76700.00 34700.00 20.00
76834.36 34521.91 120.00
[13_Chief_Road]
59297.66 32334.41 120.00 0 6 2.6388890743255615
59300.00 32500.00 20.00
60100.00 33300.00 20.00
60700.00 33300.00 20.00
62300.00 34900.00 20.00
62501.91 35099.21 120.00 0 6 2.6388890743255615
62700.00 35100.00 20.00
71300.00 35100.00 20.00
71700.00 34700.00 20.00
75900.00 34700.00 20.00
76415.29 34176.85 120.00
[15_Chief_Road]
66716.06 35098.75 120.00 0 6 2.6388890743255615
66900.00 35100.00 20.00
71300.00 35100.00 20.00
71700.00 34700.00 20.00
77100.00 34700.00 20.00
77563.94 34308.69 120.00
[16_Chief_Road]
67477.80 35100.09 120.00 0 6 2.6388890743255615
67700.00 35100.00 20.00
71300.00 35100.00 20.00
71700.00 34700.00 20.00
76500.00 34700.00 20.00
76806.73 34283.32 120.00
[17_Chief_Road]
66002.96 35102.71 120.00 0 6 2.6388890743255615
66300.00 35100.00 20.00
71300.00 35100.00 20.00
71700.00 34700.00 20.00
76700.00 34700.00 20.00
76893.26 34509.09 120.00
[1_Chief_Road]
60102.41 33297.87 120.00 0 6 2.6388890743255615
60300.00 33300.00 20.00
60700.00 33300.00 20.00
62500.00 35100.00 20.00
70100.00 35100.00 20.00
70289.34 35097.07 120.00
[NStationary]
65_Static vehicles.stationary.Stationary$Bulldozer_US 2 85567.80 18915.32 719.10 0.0
37_Static vehicles.artillery.Artillery$T34 1 67866.08 20207.21 555.00 0.0 0
43_Static vehicles.artillery.Artillery$T34 1 67851.68 20171.58 570.00 0.0 0
32_Static vehicles.artillery.Artillery$Zenit61K 2 83655.40 19249.08 360.00 0.0 0
33_Static vehicles.artillery.Artillery$Zenit61K 2 85753.62 17947.11 360.00 0.0 0
31_Static vehicles.artillery.Artillery$Zenit61K 2 85934.36 19155.36 360.00 0.0 0
34_Static vehicles.artillery.Artillery$Zenit61K 2 84428.44 19907.77 360.00 0.0 0
28_Static vehicles.artillery.Artillery$Zenit85mm_1939 1 75729.99 35814.24 360.00 0.0 0
12_Static vehicles.artillery.Artillery$Zenit85mm_1939 1 67482.05 36300.33 360.00 0.0 0
0_Static vehicles.artillery.Artillery$Zenit85mm_1939 1 60580.03 34891.67 360.00 0.0 0
13_Static vehicles.artillery.Artillery$Zenit85mm_1939 1 61250.93 32694.86 360.00 0.0 0
3_Static vehicles.artillery.Artillery$SU85 1 62482.59 35118.42 360.00 0.0 0
4_Static vehicles.artillery.Artillery$SU85 1 62754.64 34985.97 360.00 0.0 0
35_Static vehicles.artillery.Artillery$PzIIF 2 84938.68 18623.37 360.00 0.0 0
[Buildings]
0_bld House$46BoxCoverBig 1 85357.61 18570.81 719.10
1_bld House$46BoxCoverBig 1 84517.92 19086.54 719.10
2_bld House$46BoxCoverBig 1 84350.17 19188.22 719.10
3_bld House$46BoxCoverBig 1 84634.15 18984.36 719.10
4_bld House$46Bomb2 1 85538.32 18933.75 719.10
5_bld House$46Bomb2 1 85013.17 18811.22 719.10
6_bld House$46Bomb2 1 85288.25 19079.85 719.10
7_bld House$AirdromeBarrelBlock2 1 85342.08 18597.51 719.10
8_bld House$AirdromeBarrelBlock2 1 84632.11 19025.81 719.10
9_bld House$AirdromeBarrelBlock2 1 84540.15 18942.45 719.10
10_bld House$AirdromeHangar1Camo 1 85462.60 18547.49 660.00
11_bld House$AirdromeHangar1Camo 1 85321.91 19070.18 660.00
12_bld House$AirdromeTank1 1 85175.49 19257.32 719.10
13_bld House$AirdromeTank1 1 84196.74 19289.37 389.10
14_bld House$AirdromeControlTowerSmall 1 85292.17 18660.41 719.10
15_bld House$sockstrong 1 84967.26 18862.19 719.10
16_bld House$AirdromeHangar1Camo 1 85160.97 18724.34 660.00
17_bld House$AirdromeBarrelBlock2 1 85256.24 18644.02 660.00
18_bld House$AirdromeBarrelBlock2 1 85353.83 18567.32 660.00
19_bld House$AirdromeBarrelBlock2 1 85395.67 18523.55 660.00
20_bld House$AirdromeBarrelBlock2 1 85005.84 18807.33 660.00
21_bld House$AirdromeBarrelBlock2 1 84804.50 18925.21 660.00
22_bld House$AirdromeBarrelBlock2 1 84804.50 18919.08 660.00
23_bld House$AirdromeBarrelBlock2 1 84802.14 18914.36 660.00
24_bld House$46Bomb2 1 85077.99 18764.89 660.00
25_bld House$46BoxCoverBig 1 85273.20 18666.81 660.00
26_bld House$46BoxCoverBig 1 85264.24 18671.05 660.00
27_bld House$46Bomb2 1 85257.17 18674.83 660.00
28_bld House$46Bomb2 1 85485.38 18980.37 660.00
29_bld House$46Bomb2 1 85718.79 18831.84 660.00
30_bld House$46Bomb2 1 85302.40 19070.15 449.10
31_bld House$sockstrong 1 84218.51 19677.53 449.10
32_bld House$46BoxCoverBig 1 84342.58 19195.94 449.10
33_bld House$46BoxCoverBig 1 84355.87 19183.04 449.10
34_bld House$FurnitureSandbags_Round 1 84428.04 19907.93 360.00
35_bld House$FurnitureSandbags_Round 1 83654.39 19248.96 360.00
36_bld House$FurnitureSandbags_Round 1 85753.34 17947.22 360.00
37_bld House$FurnitureSandbags_Round 1 85934.21 19154.82 645.00
[Target]
3 2 1 30 501 7136 58778 1600
3 2 1 30 501 85333 18765 1850
1 0 0 0 750 62783 35083 3000
[BornPlace]
1 3000 7159 58804
[Bridge]
[House]
[FrontMarker]
FrontMarker0 98622.56 63302.91 1
FrontMarker1 92559.76 33252.51 1
FrontMarker2 73633.28 20283.38 1
FrontMarker3 52650.72 9370.34 1
FrontMarker4 20649.67 2846.88 1
FrontMarker5 19964.31 4323.04 2
FrontMarker6 50963.68 15605.12 2
FrontMarker7 68677.60 25042.00 2
FrontMarker8 80012.40 39329.12 2
FrontMarker9 86338.80 64845.60 2

Ba5tard5word
01-04-2010, 11:01 PM
I did those pictures just flying a QMB mission agaisnt armor, not sure what type of tank but it looks like an early Russian tank.

Then I tried a FMB mission with some T-34's and IS tanks and none of the Hs-129 guns could make a dent in them.

M_Gunz
01-04-2010, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by Sillius_Sodus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Frankthetank36:

So if high explosive is not the way to attack tanks, then why are rockets the weapon of choice against them (particularly for infantry)?

Armour piecing cannon rounds usually use kinetic energy to blast through armour plate. Infantry weapons, i.e., the bazooka or Panzerfaust use focused chemical and/or explosive energy to burn through the armour. Those rounds do explode, and can be effective against buildings and other soft targets, it's the focused energy of their warheads that works against tanks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Focused explosive energy ==> the name is Shaped Charge, used in HEAT shells
It is indeed very different from thin wall HE
There was also HESH, High Explosive Squash Head which the US and British used late in the war, yet another kind of HE shell.

"Tank Killed" might as easily refer to a BT-7 as a T-34 but considering IL2 ground vehicle models why compare to real?
You don't have to destroy a tank to "kill" it. You only have to incapacitate the crew. Break a track and it won't be
going anywhere for quite a while, damage the main gun or sight optics and it won't shoot or won't shoot well, tanks
are not rolling forts that require a certain level of frontal hit to stop. They have weaker points though harder to hit.
In a less than highly detailed model those aspects may be factored in to the strength. IL2 is not a tank game.

Ba5tard5word
01-05-2010, 01:16 AM
Also for fun I tried the BK 3.7 against enemy bombers. It doesn't really work against them, makes a small bright yellow explosion but it's much less effective than the normal 20mm cannons. Meanwhile the giant 7.5 gun either makes an enemy bomber like a Pe-8 or B-17 or Halifax explode with one hit if you can manage to get a hit with it, or it makes the wing blow off. Maybe they modeled the 7.5 as having an HE round and the 3.7 as having AP rounds, I dunno.

JG52Karaya-X
01-05-2010, 04:10 AM
Theres a bunch of different Bk37 guns in use in the game...

The one found on the Ju87G uses an all AP belting, the ones on the Hs129 and Bf110 (still two different ones) both use a mixed AP/HE belting.

Never really had a problem with cracking up bombers with the Bk37, its a very hard hitter, but the rate of fire is seriously undermodelled. IIRC it's something like 75 rounds per minute whereas in real life the rate of fire was around 140!

Jure_502
01-05-2010, 06:01 AM
Originally posted by Ba5tard5word: Then I tried a FMB mission with some T-34's and IS tanks and none of the Hs-129 guns could make a dent in them.

If you were using the same tactic as you did before (low passes) that won't work on a ''big'' tanks like T-34 and IS-2. You need to attack from angle 30+ degrees.

Result on T-34:

http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy39/Jure_502/Screenshots/ju87.jpg

Romanator21
01-05-2010, 12:33 PM
Yes FranktheTank, half tracks count as tanks, but these can be destroyed by 20 mm cannons and .50 cals with ease.

No soviet airplane in 1941 had radial engines except for the I-16 and Su-2. I doubt those would be enough to power the Il-2, but I'll look into their figures. It's predecessor, the Il-1 was designed to be a heavy fighter I think, and that may explain why an in-line was selected. Also, once you have an inline in place, and you are producing planes at a prodigious rate (30,000 by war's end) changing engines is difficult.

The Il-2 can survive head-ons if the AI AAA doesn't hit your wings. It's the egress which is dangerous, because almost invariably I get all my tail controls shot out. I prefer the beaufighter to be honest. Although it is not as well armored as the Il-2, it can still take a beating. I would fly it more if the observer was a selectable position, because the pilot's visibility is non-existent beyond 3 and 9 o'clock. The Il-2 also handles much more nicely, like a plane several tons lighter.

Frankthetank36
01-05-2010, 10:38 PM
The Beaufighter itself is fast for an attack plane and much better armament than the IL-2, but it is not particularly armored. I started a campaign with it and my pilot tends to die when hit by AA. If anything the plane's advantage is that it can limp home on one engine, the same cannot be said of the IL-2.

M_Gunz
01-05-2010, 11:59 PM
I've limped IL2's home on one engine. But never with one engine out.

Romanator21
01-06-2010, 02:45 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif That made my day

Ba5tard5word
01-06-2010, 12:15 PM
If engine fails due to counterrevolutionary tendencies, true hero of the revolution gets out and pushes Sturmovik back to base.