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Aztek_Eagle
03-27-2005, 01:21 AM
when u fly multiple position aircrafft like bombers , if u use the gunner, and some one gets a lucky shoot and kills the gunner u were using u died, and ur perfectly condition plane is downed when pilot is perfectly fine... this shuld change, aslong there is some one alive in ur plane u shuld be able to control it,... instead of player killed counted, u shuld have an stat of aircrew killed

BBB_Hyperion
03-27-2005, 01:57 AM
Hmm i know this problem well but as pilot you normaly should fly the plane insteed of using the gunner positions. Therefore i can understand that you cant switch back when died in gunner position.

On the other hand i cant understand when it is like this why you cant return to pilot position when the pilot was killed when in gunner position somehow strange .)

Aztek_Eagle
03-27-2005, 02:00 AM
I AM PILOT Wwhen i am in pilot position, i am gunner when i am in gunner position... if i am killed when gunner, it is totally diferent from getting the pilot killed..... is not fair that totaly good planes are downed because u were killed in gunner position as a gunner, not as a pilot . and the pilot is alive stilll

Foo.bar
03-27-2005, 06:37 AM
atztek, i am with you. when i have been shot as a gunner it must be possible to switch over to pilot's seat.

Atomic_Marten
03-27-2005, 07:06 AM
Sometimes in the torpedo runs (especially low alt finish) I switch to gunner poition and use externals (if available) to drop the torp. That way I get more secure position from flak.. I've been killed by flak many times during the torpedo runs.

Another funny thing is that when you die, your bomb have no effect after that.(if you are skip bombing that is very bad news).

Also for example if you fly IL2 in gunner position you cannot bail out if your pilot is killed and you go down with the aircraft http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>when u fly multiple position aircrafft like bombers , if u use the gunner, and some one gets a lucky shoot and kills the gunner u were using u died, and ur perfectly condition plane is downed when pilot is perfectly fine... this shuld change, aslong there is some one alive in ur plane u shuld be able to control it,... instead of player killed counted, u shuld have an stat of aircrew killed <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But I really think that was done because of simplicity in game. That could also be done in another way: if you get killed on gunner position aircraft may dissapear (but that would be totally unrealistic), and the second: your ac may proceed without you.. but in this case in theory air may be overcrowded with AI bombers. And we all know that is impossible in dogfight servers (no AI controlled flights).

So I go for your solution: that we have an option to switch to another available positions in multi engined aircraft.

JG52Karaya-X
03-27-2005, 07:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Atomic_Marten:
Another funny thing is that when you die, your bomb have no effect after that.(if you are skip bombing that is very bad news). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They do have an effect after you die... they will still destroy targets that lie in their lethal radius but you wont get any points for these targets anymore... same goes for fighter combat... if you for example shoot a planes wing or fuselage off and you are killed before that planes explodes/crashes you wont get the kill ;-(

pdog1
03-27-2005, 10:20 AM
lol i brought this issue up a while ago and the answer from Oleg is "NYET"
Maybe in BoB....

LeadSpitter_
03-27-2005, 01:35 PM
dont listen to hyperion, I couldnt agree you more aztek_eagle.

a matter of fact I think no piloted bomber should have ai gunners, top bottom turrent or rear gunner make people have to switch to the gunner stations to use them which is hard enough to fly and gun, and definatly remove the stupid pk on gunstation blackscreen. I can see maybe having waiste gunners as ai because they are absolutely useless and a waste of time and modeling becuase of the no lean or 6dof support. And useless because the eye does not stay centered on the guns iron site.

lots of gun stations need to be corrected that way keeping the iron site centered on screen with the pilot looking thru it he111 nose gun for example for example b25 nose gun and tail gun. For the ammount of work they put into modeling them they should be more functional and get more use.

This is why most single player will never switch to gunstations and in coops almost no one will use bomber gunstations but take a seprate aircraft.

p1ngu666
03-27-2005, 02:01 PM
the player hitbox should stay with the pilot, and have a "fat" copilot, who has been stretched or cloned across to cover pilot, so copilot always dies instead of pilot on the first bullet, so its like copilot takes over aircraft.
they could make the guns jam and change damage model so u get a black box over gunner if hes been killed...
its a real pain cos u already have a tough job flying bomber, and u got a bunch of idiots onboard (gunners)

so in bomber u fly, navigate, issue radio commands (mostly ignored), aim the bombs (think the bombsites dont "track" right, and require constant attention on bomb run) and use the gunner positions (2 on b25 worth using, 3 on he111)

so we bomber pilots are effectivly running around a bomber, being the only valueable member of crew, doing 5-6 things at once, with shoddy equipment and silly disadvantages http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Badsight.
03-27-2005, 02:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
dont listen to hyperion, I couldnt agree you more aztek_eagle.

a matter of fact I think no piloted bomber should have ai gunners, top bottom turrent or rear gunner make people have to switch to the gunner stations to use them which is hard enough to fly and gun, and definatly remove the stupid pk on gunstation blackscreen. I can see maybe having waiste gunners as ai because they are absolutely useless and a waste of time and modeling becuase of the no lean or 6dof support. And useless because the eye does not stay centered on the guns iron site.

lots of gun stations need to be corrected that way keeping the iron site centered on screen with the pilot looking thru it he111 nose gun for example for example b25 nose gun and tail gun. For the ammount of work they put into modeling them they should be more functional and get more use.

This is why most single player will never switch to gunstations and in coops almost no one will use bomber gunstations but take a seprate aircraft. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>all gun-stations are moddeled with same viewpoint system

no problems here

people are not very good as gunners generally & most prefer to fly there own plane , also not a "problem"

whatever position you fill you can still fly the plane , so heinkel actually has 6 pilots , unfair no ? what if you are given ability to switch back to pilot position after you are killed , but have no pilot controls in the gunner position ?

Krt_Bong
03-28-2005, 09:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
dont listen to hyperion, I couldnt agree you more aztek_eagle.

a matter of fact I think no piloted bomber should have ai gunners, top bottom turrent or rear gunner make people have to switch to the gunner stations to use them which is hard enough to fly and gun, and definatly remove the stupid pk on gunstation blackscreen. I can see maybe having waiste gunners as ai because they are absolutely useless and a waste of time and modeling becuase of the no lean or 6dof support. And useless because the eye does not stay centered on the guns iron site.

lots of gun stations need to be corrected that way keeping the iron site centered on screen with the pilot looking thru it he111 nose gun for example for example b25 nose gun and tail gun. For the ammount of work they put into modeling them they should be more functional and get more use.

This is why most single player will never switch to gunstations and in coops almost no one will use bomber gunstations but take a seprate aircraft. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>when flying Dive bombers I have gotten pretty good at flying from the back seat, in fact I have even made take-offs and landings from the back of Val or SBD's the view does get wierd at times (like there was a spiral staircase and you keep gettin deeper in it) but I have made more aerial kills from gunner stations when flying those aircraft than I have sunk ships from them