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Atomic_Marten
02-14-2005, 01:07 PM
Recently I have started to fly F4Us and P51s so I need some advice from more experienced players on how to set convergence (currently on 200m) and on which distances do you prefer to open fire on target, what type of tactics do you use most and so on.

Atomic_Marten
02-14-2005, 01:07 PM
Recently I have started to fly F4Us and P51s so I need some advice from more experienced players on how to set convergence (currently on 200m) and on which distances do you prefer to open fire on target, what type of tactics do you use most and so on.

han freak solo
02-14-2005, 03:01 PM
Sniff...Sniff....Is that fish bait I smell?

300 meters for me.

VW-IceFire
02-14-2005, 03:09 PM
Mine are set at 250 meters.

Use the gyro gunsight on the P-51D for best deflection shooting. Try and lead your shots on the stronger aircraft towards the engine or the wing root. The .50cal has no explosive potential so you need to hit what you want to destroy. But count on that to help bring down the target after a good solid and concentrated burst.

VF-29_Sandman
02-14-2005, 07:53 PM
wing guns are more critical in the range area before it turns into a shotgun. if ur planning on just air to air, 225-250 meters will do ya..250 meters='s a bit over 820 feet.
if u plan on doing both a2a and a2g, u should have a bit more on the convergance so that u'll have enough range to kill the aaa quick. 305m will give u a 1000' convergance.
if extreme up close and personal is ur thing, 150 meters is the ticket. at this range, u'll almost ram him; 492'.

p-38's dont have this problem. i have my wing guns set for 305. in the p-38, i can get accurate hits from 750 meters, and the 'bogey cam' shows the shells are still very tightly grouped together, and that's extreme range for any gun...just short of 2461'.

Maple_Tiger
02-14-2005, 08:13 PM
I set convergence to 180 for the P-51. I usualy try and go for the nose on an enemy fighter and start to fire at about 200m. This takes alot of practice lol.

P-38- I set the MG to 300m ,and the canons to 200m.

marcocomparato
02-14-2005, 08:23 PM
ive been taught that its not a matter of what convergence you use, so much as that you stick with it and learn to adjust your aim and lead to its consistency

VMF-214_HaVoK
02-14-2005, 08:32 PM
I been at 200 since the JUG of 1.0. Still am for all US aircraft.

Atomic_Marten
02-14-2005, 08:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by han freak solo:
Sniff...Sniff....Is that fish bait I smell?

300 meters for me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ain't no fish baits m8. I never practice fishing on net (childish?), in spite the fact that I love that sport offline, in 'full real' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

The main reason is I stated it already above, I have started to fly F4U and P51 a lot, and I'm bad at aiming. Very bad.(It took me several BnZ passes to shot down ace Zero).

In fact I have just played about 10 QMB games, F4U (me) vs. 4 ACE A6M5, at 1000m.
I found it to be very tough battle even if I build alt advantage for myself, these AIs require to have it's gunsight only piece of second aimed at my a/c and that's it.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I am also somewhat frustrated that after very long time playing this game I was unable to shot down this Zeros in several games.

My BnZ tactic is obviously very very different compared to 0.50s tactic. While flying Cobra or Bf109s (my favourites) I have developed tactic "1 shot kill"; I have waited till the last moment in BnZ and simply landed one T9 or Mk108 egg somewhere on enemy fighter (I used Cobra 37mm a lot, while some players are more comfortable with P39 MGs, I just love it's cannon). End of story.

VF-29_Sandman said well about P38 gunnery. Although that aircraft do not have that capabilities of P51 (fighter role), it's gunnery is significantly easier for me that is for sure. Tremendous firepower all in the nose.

Maple_Tiger I can see why you say that aiming at 180m conv. is tough. You must aiming very precisely in order not to waste ammo on that distacne, you will pretty much be handicapped of lead burst, another words you must hit in first burst and that requires a lot of practice.

ImpStarDuece
02-14-2005, 08:49 PM
When I B'n'Z, usually in the Jug but sometimes in the P-40, I set convergence for about 185-240, depending on how fast I think my likely opponents will be. The faster the opponent the longer the convergence range so I can have some effect on the longer ranged shots when i find myself bieng outpaced.

When i energy fight, usually in the P-40, P-51 and more recently the Hellcat, I find a gun convegence between 200 and 250 to be fairly good. I seem to be more accurate with longer convergences. Mostly this is from playing for 12 months with my convergence set above 300 (even in a Hurricane!). Cosequently I now have real trouble adjusting for the increased bullet drop as the rounds have less of a 'lofted' trajectory. Energy fighting seems to give me a LOT of medium range deflection shots, mostly from about 170 to 250 meters, usually at some pretty crazy angles.

On the rare occasions I turn and burn i set my convergence VERY low. Usually about 150-175, sometimes as low as 125m. I'm most probably in a P-40, P-39, B-239 or a FM-2. I find that getting slow and low tends to give me LOTS of up close and personal shots, often well under 100 m and usually only snapshots or dead 6 shots. At this range and in this regieme the .50s lose out compard to larger calibre weapons. I dont generally feel as confident of a snapshopt kill in a .50cal armed plane as i do in a 109, Sptifire or Zero.

Also at this range, unless you have very low convergence, at least one half of your shots wil miss. You simply cant get both bullet streams on target. I usually resolve myself to trying to get the rounds from one wing bank of guns on target than to miss attempting to hit with both. I ave found the best tactic is to sideslip a litle and then apply opposite rudder and try to walk my rounds either up or down the airframe.

A final note, when using the Jug i generally split my convergence. The inner pairs of guns are mostly set at about 225 and the outer pairs at about 205. This gives me a pretty good 'beaten zone' of convergence and gaurentees a lot of rounds in a fairly small space. Unless my opponents are heavily armoured (190s, Sturmoviks) a triggerpull starting about 250 out and finishing about 200 out will produce a LOT of damage as the target travels through two convergence sweet spots.

fordfan25
02-14-2005, 09:03 PM
well like you said your at yet not a good shot so that means try and get as close as you can. id set them about 200 to 300. wait till he is about 25 on the marker that tells you his range

Atomic_Marten
02-14-2005, 09:11 PM
ImpStarDuece I will try some of that stuff out.(about Jug's different conv's for outer guns -- that thing never crossed my mind http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif). When you said that about Hurricane, I used to play with that a/c for quite some time, and I remember that I have set gun conv. for that a/c at 180m, worked best for me due to fact that I have closed up to targets at maximum to have max impact with 0.303s (I have played HurriMkI Finnish fighter campaign 6gun Hurri, when close on target that six guns are devastating with conv's under 200m)

ljazz
02-15-2005, 04:48 AM
~S~!!!

I've been BnZ'ing in the Jug, and have found the best for me is staggered at 300 and 400 meters. I find that I'm usually closing so fast, that I need to start my shots from farther out. If I can hurt them with those first shots, I find that I don't need to extend quite as far for my next pass. As I get closer, and the target starts to turn, the "shotgun" effect of the spread out convergence helps me land more hits on the deflection shot. (very helpful when you're a poor shot http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )

~S~
ljazz

ImpStarDuece
02-15-2005, 05:33 AM
Ijazz- are you flying mostly offline or online? And if mostly online are you flying in servers with icons on or off?

With the Jug and the close up .50s I have a weapon of fear that shreds unwary or clueless opponents. This can really only be achieved against online human opponents who dont know that your there.

Offline I tend to go for the 250-275 mixed convergence, maybe even a little higher, possible 265-290. Why? Well the AI tends to noice you even sitting behind it, even at low six and, depending on its setting, at around 300m or slightly less usually does a hard diving break turn to evade. This pulls me at about 250 m out and I can usually rake the upper surfaces with fire.

Anything further out and i'm not a good enough shot (I blame my crappy joystick set up http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) to make those 300m+ deflection shots work for me.

I did kill some Zeros at very long range tonight on the Wildcat vs Zeke server. Pushing the 300-400m kill barrier with convergence set to 225. But hey, they are Zeros, not the toughest targets to bring down!

VF-29_Sandman
02-15-2005, 05:57 AM
the corsair's gunsite is a bit tricky to get used to, but it's also extremely accurate in lining up deflections. but if u always wind up shooting too much out of conv, u just have a '6-gun shotgun'.
if ur used to nose mounted guns..and i think u are, maybe u should start using p-38's. a pair of well-flown p-38's will make mincemeat out of the opposition, and it doesnt take much in a 38 to open up a can; its aiming that's a pita.

EnGaurde
02-15-2005, 06:18 AM
tell me something...

how, at full noise in online combat against an human player eagerly trying to blow you out of the sky + avoid being... er... blown

and viewing the speeds and target opportunities that online fighting results in (this is a major point of my.... er.. point)

and including the very real need to look everywhere at once even whilst shooting to make sure noone has locked onto you, which results in seconds to weigh up what your plane is doing, what his is doing, and what you need to do to make your bullets hit

and arent we forgetting that the hotas principle means we are stting flaps, setting viewpoints, adjusting throttle etc etc which all contributes to unsettling the control stick so fine aim is rarely affordable in the frenzy of a multi plane fight

and seeing a target distance that rarely enables you to see the paint scheme let alone anything else

HOW, by the love of GOD, do you casually say "... hmmm gee aim for his right eyebrow / pupil / thumbnail / engine / wingroot when your target is moving all over the place, your gunsight is moving all over the place, and the siuation is morphing into something different every second????? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

i refuse to accept ANYBODY has the time to pick what part of their target they want to aim at.

If they took that time, someone else usually is taking their time to aim at them.

I go for the centre shot, every time. I dont pretend that im some kind of sharpshooter, and aim at rivets or eyelashes.

tell me, convergence experts, in the maelstrom of a furball, how do you judge you are on convergence and when you are not? Arent you just stoked to have a target seemingly close enough and steady enough to spend bullets on whilst not being soundly assassinated thyself?

are all'yall going to try and tell me you can steady your speed on target whilst evading enemy attacks on you and keeping your plane at optimum flying speed? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

thats just make believe big mouthed bullsh!t

set your convergence at thumbs aim... as in, 250, which is a real world average that will work well in all realistic gun situations.

Anyone who tries to tell you they can set it reliably at ".... 274.56654, that lets me get all my bullets down their carb intake at 90 degree blind full deflection shots, which is something i can do all day with my eyes closed while my girl performs on me something similar to Hugh Jackman experienced in the password cracking scene in Swordfish"....

.... is just jerking your chain.

Maple_Tiger
02-15-2005, 07:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Atomic_Marten:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by han freak solo:
Sniff...Sniff....Is that fish bait I smell?

300 meters for me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ain't no fish baits m8. I never practice fishing on net (childish?), in spite the fact that I love that sport offline, in 'full real' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

The main reason is I stated it already above, I have started to fly F4U and P51 a lot, and I'm bad at aiming. Very bad.(It took me several BnZ passes to shot down ace Zero).

In fact I have just played about 10 QMB games, F4U (me) vs. 4 ACE A6M5, at 1000m.
I found it to be very tough battle even if I build alt advantage for myself, these AIs require to have it's gunsight only piece of second aimed at my a/c and that's it.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I am also somewhat frustrated that after very long time playing this game I was unable to shot down this Zeros in several games.

My BnZ tactic is obviously very very different compared to 0.50s tactic. While flying Cobra or Bf109s (my favourites) I have developed tactic "1 shot kill"; I have waited till the last moment in BnZ and simply landed one T9 or Mk108 egg somewhere on enemy fighter (I used Cobra 37mm a lot, while some players are more comfortable with P39 MGs, I just love it's cannon). End of story.

_VF-29_Sandman_ said well about P38 gunnery. Although that aircraft do not have that capabilities of P51 (fighter role), it's gunnery is significantly easier for me that is for sure. Tremendous firepower all in the nose.

_Maple_Tiger_ I can see why you say that aiming at 180m conv. is tough. You must aiming very precisely in order not to waste ammo on that distacne, you will pretty much be handicapped of lead burst, another words you must hit in first burst and that requires a lot of practice. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



You can lead it at 180m convergence. However, becuase you'r closer, it requirs less lead. The hard part, is lining up you'r shot so that the enemy plane enters you'r site at about 200m. I squeeze trigger for about two to three full seconds. If I can, I'll pull back on the stick so more of the bullits will land on the area I want to hit. Some times I only have a 2 second window for a shot lol. Mayby I should slow down?

Atomic_Marten
02-15-2005, 12:30 PM
EnGaurde, you have stated your point, but IMO that is what is related to non-BnZ combat, and furthermore combat vs. awared opponents.

If you however deal with unaware ones (that is mostly in pit off or 'realistic' servers), you will see that if you got enough patience you will found 'sitting duck'. A enemy fighter that is patrolling airspace unaware of your presence on higher altitude. And unless he do not sharply dive, or perform some kind of fancy manoeuvre, he is sitting duck that can be easily removed from the sky.

My problem is that in order to 'remove' that 'sitting duck' I *usually* need more than one pass. In fact several of them, and by the time I buzzed by him for the first time, my main advantage (surprisehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) is lost http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif. And the more experienced axis flyer will quickly realize that diving is the only option due to my higher amount of energy (speed and position). I usually don't follow him, and that is the end of battle.

That all isn't possible offline where your opponents are always awared (AI), regardless of skill (rookie-ace), difference is only in their reaction http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

Cajun76
02-15-2005, 02:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EnGaurde:
tell me something...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I generally try to hit the engine and walk my fire back. In a high speed pass, aim center, but if I'm closer to his energy range and pulling deflection, I try not to waste ammo on his tail unless it's all I've got, like a snapshot during scissors. I try not to get into scissors type situations in the Jug, though.

Especially in knife fights, I'll lose firing opportunities because I'm going for the engine/cockpit/wingroot. Most of those knife-fighters have low ammo, and I gotta make it count.

fordfan25
02-15-2005, 02:25 PM
i found crashing into people works realy well lol.

Bearcat99
02-15-2005, 04:25 PM
I have found that 190-225 works best for me.

VF-29_Sandman
02-15-2005, 07:44 PM
if u are in the p-xx without the k14 gunsight, when wings almost touch the circle, ur roughly 300' from target. a practically 'cant miss'. add short conv range like at 190, and he's goin down real quick. the mk-8 gunsight is a tad different, but is actually more accurate.

han freak solo
02-16-2005, 07:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Atomic_Marten:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by han freak solo:
Sniff...Sniff....Is that fish bait I smell?

300 meters for me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ain't no fish baits m8. I never practice fishing on net (childish?), in spite the fact that I love that sport offline, in 'full real' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

My apologies then. I've fallen for quite a few. some of them here. Good hunting, Dude! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
The main reason is I stated it already above, I have started to fly F4U and P51 a lot, and I'm bad at aiming. Very bad.(It took me several BnZ passes to shot down ace Zero).

In fact I have just played about 10 QMB games, F4U (me) vs. 4 ACE A6M5, at 1000m.
I found it to be very tough battle even if I build alt advantage for myself, these AIs require to have it's gunsight only piece of second aimed at my a/c and that's it.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I am also somewhat frustrated that after very long time playing this game I was unable to shot down this Zeros in several games.

My BnZ tactic is obviously very very different compared to 0.50s tactic. While flying Cobra or Bf109s (my favourites) I have developed tactic "1 shot kill"; I have waited till the last moment in BnZ and simply landed one T9 or Mk108 egg somewhere on enemy fighter (I used Cobra 37mm a lot, while some players are more comfortable with P39 MGs, I just love it's cannon). End of story.

_VF-29_Sandman_ said well about P38 gunnery. Although that aircraft do not have that capabilities of P51 (fighter role), it's gunnery is significantly easier for me that is for sure. Tremendous firepower all in the nose.

_Maple_Tiger_ I can see why you say that aiming at 180m conv. is tough. You must aiming very precisely in order not to waste ammo on that distacne, you will pretty much be handicapped of lead burst, another words you must hit in first burst and that requires a lot of practice. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

han freak solo
02-16-2005, 07:43 AM
My reply didn't come through.

My apologies then. I have taken a hook or two here. Good hunting, dude! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Atomic_Marten
02-16-2005, 03:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by han freak solo:
My reply didn't come through.

My apologies then. I have taken a hook or two here. Good hunting, dude! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No problem. Thanks.
~S~! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Maple_Tiger
02-16-2005, 07:14 PM
Marten, practice lining up shots in the QMB, but only fire when you'r just about at convergence. Fire for atleast 2 seconds.

Do you use any negative trim? This may help to make the gun-sight less jumpy when you'r pulling back on the stick.

Atomic_Marten
02-16-2005, 07:58 PM
I have always practiced head-ons in QMB. It becomes my habit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif(I'm usually too lazy to avoid head on, so I must hit first in order to avoid being struck by AI burst).

Also I find QMB more demanding in the term BnZ gunnery in comparison to online no offence to any aces outhere http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif -- just AI can perform what no human can.. for instance, try 4ACE I-16T24 versus you in P51D. They will hold up for quite some time on your tail waiting for your error. Online that is simply imossible because I16 driver will insanely overheat not to mention few hundred Km's/h less on his speedmeter than yours http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

There is no rule with ace AI; sometimes it can surprise you with manoeuvre that you can not follow and sometimes will fell for your trick like true newbie. What I have noticed about AI (again this is not a rule, just *common* AI behaviour) if you give him an ranged burst from say, 400-450m in BnZ that will work fine I usually struck tail section due to my poor judgement in gunnery (wing mounted MGs), but whenever I wait for close shot (under 300m) they seem to perform some insane manoeuvre and that way nulify all my effort in preparing succesfull BnZ pass http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

Maple_Tiger what do you mean by "lining up shots"? Sorry my English's not that good http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, I do not understand.
About negative trim, I'm rarely using that, I'm using trim almost exclusively in non combat flight, where I can ease up on stick. With my X45 it should not be a problem to setup trim controls, but I'm quite new to it (I did not do that yet), and I don't do that with keyboard or mouse (I have tried with trim on mouse wheel quite some time ago, it went horribly bad.. I have several crashes in FW190 when landing due to mouse trim wheel -- when in position to land I accidentaly moved my mouse and suddenly mouse wheel activated max.negative or positive trim and I went into spin and crashed -- you should see my face then http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

Enofinu
02-17-2005, 07:10 AM
100m here no matter what plane i use.

Maple_Tiger
02-17-2005, 08:55 AM
lol,

If you have an I-16 on you'r tail, you did something wrong.

Try this, Go into the QMB, set you'r convergence to 180M, and take the P-51D against 2 AI KI-84s. Start the mission at 1000m, set the RPM setting to 95%, Rad on two, and climb. Once they are under you, roll over, or go vertical and dive down on top of number 2. Use some negative trim, just enough to keep the elevators from being over responsive.

Now, you'r diving down with rad open. You need to line up so that when you reach 200m distance, you can pull the trigger and hit the engine airea. A good 2 or 3 second burst should bring it down. You must hit the enemy plane using you'r convergence setting. Anything more or less, will be almost poitnles.

Atomic_Marten
02-18-2005, 09:32 PM
Yes you are right. Now I can take them that way somewhat easily/automatically. Because of my exp. with the game, I haven't got much trouble adjusting to .50s with 180m conv. I have it now set on 180m and it works great.(I still start to shoot from 300-400m just to be sure that he will pass thru burst http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

About QMB, yes.. that is most effective tactic. Was practicing vs. four Zekes/Franks. I 'fake' to go for head-on, but instead I dive a little so they put their noses down in order to get me. After they pass littlle above me, I start to climb (I'm on over 500kmh by that moment) ending in sharp ?90 climb untill run outta energy. And if they are not on proper distance below me (~700m over), I even do a extra loop and I use my energy to max. to get them on proper distance below me. Well after that it is only up to my gunnery skills.

The *only* thing that one who is using this tactic must do is to aim on first or second a/c with most energy/ alt. Otherwise others will get you (assuming that you are playing vs. ACE AI.). I have learn this hard way.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif