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bmoffa
01-10-2009, 09:08 AM
You guys were really helpful when I asked about the P39 engine and gun arrangement. Now I have another one.

How did they fit the MK108 (shooting throuh the prop hub) and 2 other guns (shooting through the prop) in with the engine? At least the P39 had some space in there because the engine was behind the pilot.

Bremspropeller
01-10-2009, 09:19 AM
The gun itself was situated behind the engine, right beween the pilot's legs.
It shot through the hollow engine-shaft.

The two MGs just sat on top of the engine.

http://www.bredow-web.de/Luftwaffenmuseum/Historisch/Bf_109_G-2/Rheinmetall-Borsig_MK_108/a_Bordnetz_Bf-109.jpg

NOTE: the picture is not correct about the guns used.

The pod-guns are MG151/20 (20mm).
The engine-gun shown here is an MG151/20 (20mm) as well.

The machine-guns are MG17s (7.92mm).

Choctaw111
01-10-2009, 09:40 AM
There was a photo posted not too long ago that showed the 109 with the engine and cowling removed and the guns exposed.

bmoffa
01-10-2009, 10:04 AM
So the engine has a tunnel through it?

Kurfurst__
01-10-2009, 10:18 AM
Yup the blast tube ran between the cylinders.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e133/Kurfurst/DB_explodedview.jpg

The MK 108 was fixed to the rear of the engine:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e133/Kurfurst/109K0_Motorkanone_installation.jpg

Xiolablu3
01-10-2009, 01:24 PM
This video shows the exact position of hte cannon with regards to the pilot....

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=...zYZo&feature=related (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EgvfklVzYZo&feature=related)

Be aware that Paul Day is equally critical of the Spitfire when he is examining it in the previous part of the program. However he does rate the size of the cockpit and vision, particularly to the rear, poorly compared to the Spitfire.

Choctaw111
01-10-2009, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
This video shows the exact position of hte cannon with regards to the pilot....

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=...zYZo&feature=related (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EgvfklVzYZo&feature=related)

Be aware that Paul Day is equally critical of the Spitfire when he is examining it in the previous part of the program. However he does rate the size of the cockpit and vision, particularly to the rear, poorly compared to the Spitfire.


Great movie. Thanks for sharing this.

Zeus-cat
01-10-2009, 04:06 PM
Here is a link tom the National Museum of the US Air Force. I didn't see a photo of the P-39 engine (I think it was a P-39 engine) they have on display with a cannon in it. If you go to the museum the engine is in the World War II section by the Doolitle Raid display. I'll be overthere Monday and I'll try and grab a few photos of it.

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.m...ex.asp?galleryID=528 (http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/photos/index.asp?galleryID=528)

Hookecho
01-12-2009, 06:53 AM
why do you think the engine was inverted? so they could run the gun down the valley between the heads.

Kurfurst__
01-12-2009, 11:28 AM
I am not sure if this was the reason for inverted engines, the French also used their Hispano cannon firing between the cylinder bank on the the Dewo for example, and that engine was not inverted.

PanzerAce
01-12-2009, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
I am not sure if this was the reason for inverted engines, the French also used their Hispano cannon firing between the cylinder bank on the the Dewo for example, and that engine was not inverted.

It wasn't. One of the primary reasons actually was to make maintenance in the field way easier. By having all of the cams/valves/heads/plugs/wires on the "bottom" of the engine, no ladder was needed to work on them. It also improved visibility a little.

WTE_Galway
01-12-2009, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
I am not sure if this was the reason for inverted engines, the French also used their Hispano cannon firing between the cylinder bank on the the Dewo for example, and that engine was not inverted.

Although the French built Hispano-Suiza V12's used in Czech planes were usually inverted.

Maybe its and east-europe / west-europe thing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

K_Freddie
01-12-2009, 03:06 PM
This link goes a little way in explainign this.. (http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=145865&start=15)
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

ImpStarDuece
01-12-2009, 06:03 PM
Thank you for the link to the documentary, fascinating to see the interviews with Henshaw, Quill, Smith, Mitchell and Camm!