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View Full Version : Skins in BoB... or even here for that matter....



Bearcat99
01-09-2007, 10:07 PM
Oleg... will skins like this (http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/forums/targetware/480-reflection-maps.html) be possible in BoB? What would it take to be able to do this in FB? That is amazing. Is it possible to do in FB or would it cripple the PC?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://star.walagata.com/w/bearcat/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://www.tuskegeeairmen.org)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE> 332nd V.F.G. (http://www.geocities.com/bearcat99th/) [/list]
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Bearcat99
01-09-2007, 10:07 PM
Oleg... will skins like this (http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/forums/targetware/480-reflection-maps.html) be possible in BoB? What would it take to be able to do this in FB? That is amazing. Is it possible to do in FB or would it cripple the PC?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://star.walagata.com/w/bearcat/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://www.tuskegeeairmen.org)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE> 332nd V.F.G. (http://www.geocities.com/bearcat99th/) [/list]
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">It is easier to train a boy than to repair a man.</span>
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FritzGryphon
01-09-2007, 11:34 PM
Environment mapping has been around for a while. I remember it first in Quake 2.

It doesn't cause any large performance hit, but there are some limitations that complicate it's usage in flight sims. For one, the reflection map is just a texture, and won't actually match the surroundings. Imagine a blue reflection on your plane, but the sky is red. Also, if it's dark out, a reflection map will make the plane glow.

JamesBlonde888
01-09-2007, 11:48 PM
That is awesome.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Bearcat99
01-09-2007, 11:56 PM
Yes but look at that video in the end..... it looks like it is reflecting terrain.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://star.walagata.com/w/bearcat/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://www.tuskegeeairmen.org)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE> 332nd V.F.G. (http://www.geocities.com/bearcat99th/) [/list]
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FritzGryphon
01-10-2007, 12:01 AM
The enviroment map used is of a blue sky and green ground. You'll notice in the background, there is no sky or ground, it's just flat blue.

An enviroment map is a texture map that is allowed to float on the object at the object rotates, giving the illusion of a reflection. Same technology as the shiny stuff on the Quad Damage.

Bearcat99
01-10-2007, 12:03 AM
Ahhhhhh even still that metal looks great.... So are you saying that in order to get that kind of illusion you would have to have access to parts of the sim that we currently dont have access to?

y'know after looking again... I dunno.. it looks like there is sky and ground as the plane moves....<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://star.walagata.com/w/bearcat/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://www.tuskegeeairmen.org)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE> 332nd V.F.G. (http://www.geocities.com/bearcat99th/) [/list]
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">It is easier to train a boy than to repair a man.</span>
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FritzGryphon
01-10-2007, 12:37 AM
I remember Oleg saying that IL-2 supports it, just like most game engines. But they couldn't impliment such reflections without it looking weird in some cases.

Here's an example of an enviroment map.

http://www.liquidsmoke.net/portfolio/wallpapers/landscape.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/evilgryphon3/env2.mov

Philipscdrw
01-10-2007, 02:06 AM
Can't the environment-map be changed periodically to match the actual sim environment? I'm thinking of a global environment-map here, which would apply to every aircraft flying on that map at the time.

You'd just set up a camera somewhere on the map, have it take a screenshot or otherwise record a render of what it can see, and use that as an environment map. You'd just need to make sure it's not inside a cloud at the time...

Thinking in terms of BoB and larger maps, maybe you'd need regional environment maps - Kent might look significantly different to the North Sea.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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slappedsilly
01-10-2007, 04:33 PM
Oh man I hope so! We definately need more shiny things!

FritzGryphon
01-10-2007, 05:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Can't the environment-map be changed periodically to match the actual sim environment? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think there are ways to do that now. I remember seeing it in a 3Dmark demo. It's used heavily in games like Prey, I think.

A cube rotates around a reflective sphere. The reflection shows the room -and- the cube going around it, successfully faking a 'true' reflection.

The game renders an enviroment map in all six directions, from the perspective of the object itself. It makes a cubic environment map that accurately represents everything in the surroundings. So even if you are in a cloud or a hangar, it will look right. It will even reflect airplanes and vehicles near you.

I think the mirrors in IL-2 uses a method like this, which is why the mirror image looks pixelated (low resolution reflection map being made).

Of course, the problem here is the time to generate these maps. If you are talking 512x512 reflection maps for all six sides, for 10 planes, at 50fps, thats 131 million pixels per second. Even then, the reflection would look pixelated up close.

Bearcat99
01-10-2007, 09:23 PM
I hope refection mapping will be available in BoB.....<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Capt.LoneRanger
01-11-2007, 03:16 AM
http://developer.nvidia.com/object/cube_map_ogl_tutorial.html

This is how it works. Especially with mutli-texturing, this is not too difficult to combine with other textures.

Would be nice to have them in BoB.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Capt.LoneRanger

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F19_Ob
01-11-2007, 04:12 AM
Reflections is one thing, shadows and light another. Usually the painted reflections can be disturbingly noticable when the plane is moving, although look good on stills.

On our skins we still can , with better effect, paint subtle 'fake' shadows wich will look very convincing, depending on planetypes.
I say 'fake' because they don't follow the lightsources in the sim. But placed on the most natural spots with the fact in mind that most light come from above, a lot can be done here.

Light on the other hand is a bit more noticeable than shadow and it really should be just highlights on some spots.
Often lighting can be left out and still reach a good effect with shadows only.

A good example on fake shadows in the sim is the j8 Gladiator wich have fake shadows on the front upper fuselage and the lower wing, imitating the shadow that would come from the upper wing blocking the light from above.
Compare the J8 with the I-153, wich doesn't have shadows at all. The result of the shadows on the j8 is that it's more realistic looking.

Another example is the wildcat wich has hints of shadow, best seen under the elevators.

Perhaps you have noted some planes and skins look more realistic? Usually those ones have fake shadows on them.

It can be small details or bigger, but also the interior of the cockpit (seen from outside) can be shaded and de-saturated like for P-40M, wich takes away the glowing of the interor of the cockpit, wich usually is dark when seen from outside.

Wings usually need a little help of 'fake' shadows to look rounded. It can be so subtle that it's hardly noticable, if one doesn't know what one is looking for.

well, a few tips on things to look for on a skin.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/f19_ob/ob_ver2.jpg