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View Full Version : wat are droptanks?



kingkirki49
02-14-2007, 07:17 PM
the topic says it all

i mean wat are their uses? i tried droping em
they dont blow up

FritzGryphon
02-14-2007, 07:21 PM
They contain fuel that gives you longer range. You can drop them if they are empty, or if you want to lighten your aircraft.

kingkirki49
02-14-2007, 07:28 PM
i see ya i had a feeling they had to do with fuel just sucksthey dont explode if u drop em (if it had fuel still in it would be more realistic)

VW-IceFire
02-14-2007, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by kingkirki49:
i see ya i had a feeling they had to do with fuel just sucksthey dont explode if u drop em (if it had fuel still in it would be more realistic)
They would need a reason to explode...the fuel used isn't really that volatile under those conditions.

kingkirki49
02-14-2007, 07:45 PM
they arnt? how i thought at drop speed and the increasing speed from falling and a heavy impact theyd explode like a bomb...

berg417448
02-14-2007, 07:49 PM
The drop tanks carried by the P-51 were actually made of compressed paper.

kingkirki49
02-14-2007, 07:53 PM
wow really? how the hell they stand the pressure high winds and speed?

Luv_Muffin
02-14-2007, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by kingkirki49:
wow really? how the hell they stand the pressure high winds and speed?
The same way trees do? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

EDIT: Don't want to sound like a smarty pants. I didn't know they were compressed paper (in the 40's) either. But I think the compression --> trees comparison is valid.
Just don't want to sound like I'm jumping on you or anything.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Treetop64
02-14-2007, 07:59 PM
kingkirki, fuel by itself doesn't explode. It needs a trigger, like a spark or something. Also, fuel in a liquid state isn't what "explodes", it's the fuel vapor (invisible) that is volitile.

Using droptanks as weapons is an inefficient way of doing so.

You are likely referring to napalm, a flammable gel carried in tanks that resemble drop tanks. Naplam is a sticky gel that ignites when detonated and sticks to whatever it lands on. It creates a very, very messy situation for whoever is on the recieving end...

kingkirki49
02-14-2007, 08:09 PM
so your saying they diddent make on the future versions (future as later not years and years)

cus i got the reg likle first one of il-02

i later found out pf (pacific fighters) was a upgraded ver

ya thats like the fab or was it vap i forget but a better ver is on battlefield vietnam (wich i dont have and cant find)

XyZspineZyX
02-14-2007, 08:27 PM
Not all the tanks were pressed paper, and the tnaks were not 100% paper. I think you'll find they were capped with aluminum near the very ends. many tanks were aluminum, even for Mustangs. The Germans used plywood

You can imagine the increase in range if an extra 220 gallons of fuel were available. Very strategically important to have assets like fighters capable of travelling 2,000 miles to engage the enemy

Standard US practice was to jettison drop tanks when in combat

As for pressure high winds and speed, well, the tanks are not made from paper like a newspaper or in a book. It's impregnated with a resin

Pressure- what's pressure got to do with this? We are removing, not adding http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Fuel tanks in cars, for example, have vents to prevent them from collapsing, not expanding. There is pressure in the system, but not from the tanks having a plunger like device to force the fuel out. It was drawn up through a glass elbow by the fuel pump or pumps.

Think of a squirt gun, a kids's toy.

You pull the trigger, and a thin jet of pressurised water comes out. But the gun itself is not pressurised in the part that holds the water http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif The water reservoir is your droptank, the trigger pump is your fuel pump, and the spray of water is your fuel pressure. The pressure is how well the pump is working, not how much pressure is in the tanks

High winds and speed...roughly the same thing in context here. The structure was made rigid by it's shape- cylinders are quite strong, and they were stressed to some degree. Take a common cardboard packing tube, like threaded steel rod might come in, with a wall thickness of about 1/4". Try to crush it end to end http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Stand on it, too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

It is true that P-51 pilots would try to drop partly full droptanks on targets. The fuel has weight, and the tanks could damage through physical impact, while also, if the tanks were to hit for instance a truck idling by the side of the road, or a house with a fire in the fireplace, there would be a chance of igniting a fire because of the fuel the dropped and ruptured tank would spray out

VW-IceFire
02-14-2007, 08:39 PM
Still...its not likely to be some huge explosion or anything of that sort. They aren't likely to go off like a bomb without some serious help.

kingkirki49
02-14-2007, 08:52 PM
i see say icefire do u have any missions or campaigns that mite work on my ver the origonal il-2?

XyZspineZyX
02-14-2007, 08:55 PM
Oh of course not Icefirehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif If it would explode, you wouldn't need compression in the engine or spark plugs. Maybe they missed out on not making the P-51 a diesel http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

kingkirki49
02-14-2007, 08:59 PM
wat u mean not all of the planes were diesel fueled? if not then wat ones were not and wat kind did they use (posibly aside from reg gas)

HarryVoyager
02-14-2007, 09:53 PM
(I'm having the sneaking suspicion I've found a hook, but...)

Most aircraft use high octane gasoline, anywhere from ~80 octane (around 87 automotive, I believe), to 150 Leaded. Diesel was only used on a comparatively small number of aircraft, and not very successfully, due to, I believe, air pressure effect messing up the combustion process. (Diesel is ignited by a pure pressure reaction, so changing the ambient pressure can change the ignition characteristics.)

As for using drop tanks as weapons, in the Pacific, US forces cobbled together a pre-napalm they called "Hell Jelly" by mixing some stuff into gasoline. They would dump the mix into drop-tanks, stir it until it got thick, and then use the now hell jelly filled drop tank as an improvised incendiary bomb. I don't know what they did to make it light on impact. The improv incendiary is what led to the development of Napalm.

This might be what you are thinking about when you are thinking of exploding drop-tanks. The Corsair has them in-game, but I don't know about any other aircraft.

Harry Voyager

dusta01
02-14-2007, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by kingkirki49:
so your saying they diddent make on the future versions (future as later not years and years)

cus i got the reg likle first one of il-02

i later found out pf (pacific fighters) was a upgraded ver

ya thats like the fab or was it vap i forget but a better ver is on battlefield vietnam (wich i dont have and cant find)


I do seriously hope your not trying to relate what is supposedly napalm in EA's bucket o **** Battlefield Vietnam game to something in IL2 . If i remember correctly you could drop the so called napalm on infantry and actually have nothing happen to them.

JR_Greenhorn
02-14-2007, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by kingkirki49:
wat u mean not all of the planes were diesel fueled? if not then wat ones were not and wat kind did they use (posibly aside from reg gas) There have only been a handful of diesel-powered airplanes ever. Generally, the harsh vibrations of diesel engines shake airframes to pieces. Notably in Il-2 context, there was a version of the Pe-8 powered by diesel engines.

Almost all piston-engine aircraft burn what's referred to in general as "AvGas" (AViation GASoline). AvGas comes in various grades and octane numbers, which are described by several different designation systems. Octane numbers for WWII-era AvGas ranged from around 87 or so on up to 150. Remember that there are many different methods to measure/describe octane numbers, so octane numbers can't always be directly compared.

It's also notable that WWII aircraft fuels were blended with tetra-ethyl lead. That is they are "leaded" fuels instead of the "unleaded" you buy for your car today.

Many of the planes with a "late" designation in game are modeled with engines set up to run higher octane fuels, and as such give more power than the standard versions.



In case you were wondering, most jet engines burn fuels that are mostly kerosene.

Esel1964
02-14-2007, 10:37 PM
Some droptanks find other 'lives'.

http://www.so-calspeedshop.com/history/amquat-lakester.html

Skarphol
02-15-2007, 03:05 AM
The only two aditional diesel-powered planes I can remember right now are Junker Ju-86 bomber/recon plane and the Blom & Voss Bv-138 maritime patrolplane. The reason for using diesel-engines on the Bv-138 was to increase it's range. The plane flew low and slow anyway, so gasoline-engines was not imperative. The diesel fuel was popular among it's crew, as it didn't so easily ignite when the planes got hit in the wingtanks.

Skarphol

cawimmer430
02-15-2007, 03:56 AM
Originally posted by Skarphol:
The only two aditional diesel-powered planes I can remember right now are Junker Ju-86 bomber/recon plane and the Blom & Voss Bv-138 maritime patrolplane. The reason for using diesel-engines on the Bv-138 was to increase it's range. The plane flew low and slow anyway, so gasoline-engines was not imperative. The diesel fuel was popular among it's crew, as it didn't so easily ignite when the planes got hit in the wingtanks.

Skarphol

Also, the BV made use of diesel engines so it could be refueled at sea by U-Boots if necessary. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

R988z
02-15-2007, 04:32 AM
if you are on the deck of an aircraft carrier, drop your tanks and see what happens, Splash! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

There are some napalm load outs in the game though, pretty sure Corsair has some, and the Il-2 has some sort of flamethrowing thing which is similar.

SeaFireLIV
02-15-2007, 05:04 AM
Am I too late with the popcorn? Where`s kingkirki49 ? I wanna hear another question from him!

XyZspineZyX
02-15-2007, 05:40 AM
Originally posted by kingkirki49:
wat u mean not all of the planes were diesel fueled? if not then wat ones were not and wat kind did they use (posibly aside from reg gas)

???

I never said that any plane in WWII or otherwise was diesel powered or fueled. I'm also saying they never were during the war or can't be now. You are operating under some assumptions http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I said "too bad they never made a diesel P-51" with a smiley face after it, because I was talking about igniting fuels without sparkplugs and I was talking about compression in an engine, which are two important aspects of diesels. You have assumed that I meant that the P-51 was an exception to the trend of diesel-powered aircraft, which was not my statement at all

They also didn't use 'regular gas'. There are more fuels for the internal combustion engine than just gasoline and diesel fuel http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Maybe a good little project for you would be to Google info on internal combustion aircraft engines http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JerryFodder
02-15-2007, 05:55 AM
Originally posted by kingkirki49:
they arnt? how i thought at drop speed and the increasing speed from falling and a heavy impact theyd explode like a bomb...


You've been watching too many John Woo movies http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JerryFodder
02-15-2007, 06:02 AM
Originally posted by JR_Greenhorn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kingkirki49:
wat u mean not all of the planes were diesel fueled? if not then wat ones were not and wat kind did they use (posibly aside from reg gas) There have only been a handful of diesel-powered airplanes ever. Generally, the harsh vibrations of diesel engines shake airframes to pieces. Notably in Il-2 context, there was a version of the Pe-8 powered by diesel engines.

Almost all piston-engine aircraft burn what's referred to in general as "AvGas" (AViation GASoline). AvGas comes in various grades and octane numbers, which are described by several different designation systems. Octane numbers for WWII-era AvGas ranged from around 87 or so on up to 150. Remember that there are many different methods to measure/describe octane numbers, so octane numbers can't always be directly compared.

It's also notable that WWII aircraft fuels were blended with tetra-ethyl lead. That is they are "leaded" fuels instead of the "unleaded" you buy for your car today.

Many of the planes with a "late" designation in game are modeled with engines set up to run higher octane fuels, and as such give more power than the standard versions.



In case you were wondering, most jet engines burn fuels that are mostly kerosene. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Kerosine is like diesel so all jet aircraft are effectively diesel powered. I know guys that maintain jet engines for a living and they pinch the kerosine to run in their diesel cars.

CD_kp84yb
02-15-2007, 06:30 AM
Kerosine in dieselengines

Thats what our smart army brass also thought http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif, to cut down the fuel cost.
Ok the engines could run on it, but the negativs where Less power and ruined fuelpumps.
Even the Leopard engine (who are designed to run on all kind of fuels) produced less power.
The pumps need the diesel for lubrication. So we got an additiv to save the pumps , but the Lease cars didnt got clearence for usage of kerosine (guess why) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif and still the pumps didnt last long.

after two years of struggling they gave up ( this BS test was only used in the Netherlands not the dutch troops abroad) and some lame excuse that the other countrys wouldn't follow, Again guess why?

Cheers

Haigotron
02-15-2007, 07:46 AM
Originally posted by Esel1964:
Some droptanks find other 'lives'.

http://www.so-calspeedshop.com/history/amquat-lakester.html

Dont forget about that news reporter guy with the modified drop tank in which he could get into...the topic was around here not long ago http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

WOLFMondo
02-15-2007, 08:09 AM
Theres an urban myth/legend in Brighton that a man was killed on Queens Road, next to Brighton station by a BF109 drop tank in 1941.

Not sure if its true or not.

x6BL_Brando
02-15-2007, 09:05 AM
I was travelling from Cheltenham to Huddersfield late one night on a Panther 650 outfit. It had a single forward-sloping OHV engine with a compression ratio of around 5.5/1 and ran on low-grade petrol ignited by a single spark-plug (in the usual manner).

I had left the reserve tap open (stupidly) as I discovered when the engine started the familiar sputtering that signified imminent fuel starvation. It was a winter's night on the Staffordshire moors, below zero, and at least 30 miles from the nearest all-night garage, over the county line in Buxton, Cheshire. I hadn't seen another vehicle in an hour as I was purposely using the country roads to avoid the motorways (freeways). The night was moonless and I had already started to deal with frost forming on my goggles. Things looked bleak when I caught sight of a dim light that turned out to be above the porch of an old hill-farm house about half a mile away up a rutted track.

I rode up there and hammered on the door. Eventually an old guy opened it up and I asked if he could sell me a half-gallon of fuel.
"Nay lad, came the reply, t' Land Rover is diesel, and t' tractor runs on TVO - I've nowt else"
I thought of asking for a blanket and use of the kitchen floor, but the savage collie that he was barely restraining didn't look to friendly so I turned to go. "Wait on, the old fella said, what kind of bike is it?" A P&M Panther, I replied, and the old boy brightened. "T' old heavyweight?" he cried, and "dost have any petrol in t' carb?" "Wait here, he said and closed the door.

A couple of minutes later he reappeared with one of those old Castrol oil cans, the type with the built in pouring spout, full to the brim. On his instruction I kicked up the the engine, and once it was running he slowly poured the liquid into the fuel-tank. Then he showed me how to adjust the ignition timing to compensate for the low-octane TVO that he'd put in.

TVO (full name: Tractor vapourising oil) is very similar to kerosene. This article (http://tractorbits.com/infofiles/TVO.asp) gives a full explanation of octanes and the different characteristics of fuels - as well as some good info on the state of the British economy immediately post-WW2.

I got to Buxton on my half-gallon of TVO and filled up with petrol and journeyed on. My bike smelt like an old oil lamp for days afterwards - but it was certainly better than a night on the moor!

B

kingkirki49
02-15-2007, 03:37 PM
i see well im a lil busy atm but keep postng about this topic if u like ill read later

JR_Greenhorn
02-15-2007, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by x6BL_Brando:
TVO (full name: Tractor vapourising oil)... When I was a kid just old enough to help out on the farm, I was charged with refuelling the forklift (flathead Chrysler Industrial straight-6). I wasn't sure what kind of fuel a forklift burns, but I was young and too stubborn to ask. It was a little tricky to get to the fuel filler neck in the first place, and when I did, it was simply (and sloppily) painted red. As a farm kid, I associated red fuel with the red-dyed off-highway diesel fuel we burned in most of the tractors. I filled up the tank and didn't even make it halfway across the yard before it quit.


I felt pretty bad, but my grandpa came over to me and told me a story about one of the first errands he ran into town with his father's first pickup truck. He said that he knew he was low on fuel, and the only fuel he had ever seen was the "tractor gas" they burned on the farm in their tractor. He filled it up, and didn't make it home. His father had to come into town (via horses, IIRC) and drain the tank and get a can of gasoline to refill it with.


I don't know why that pickup couldn't run on "tractor gas," but his story made me feel better. Still, I never really knew what "tractor gas" actually was until today.
Thanks, Brando.

JerryFodder
02-16-2007, 05:39 AM
Originally posted by CD_kp84yb:
Kerosine in dieselengines

Thats what our smart army brass also thought http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif, to cut down the fuel cost.
Ok the engines could run on it, but the negativs where Less power and ruined fuelpumps.
Even the Leopard engine (who are designed to run on all kind of fuels) produced less power.
The pumps need the diesel for lubrication. So we got an additiv to save the pumps , but the Lease cars didnt got clearence for usage of kerosine (guess why) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif and still the pumps didnt last long.

after two years of struggling they gave up ( this BS test was only used in the Netherlands not the dutch troops abroad) and some lame excuse that the other countrys wouldn't follow, Again guess why?

Cheers

Mix in a percentage of fossil diesel and all of those problems disappear. Same with sunflower/vegetable oil - raw.