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the_atm
07-14-2011, 09:41 PM
Ok first off i'm back guys, none of you will know who i am but i'm back that's the main thing.

so first thing. i have always loved AC1's combat, it was great and it offerd a challenge, while ACII and Brotherhood offer little to no challenge in the combat secton, so in Revelations can we get an opton to have classic Combat system on or new combat system on? Classic would be the combat system from AC1?

Second thing, is my thoughts on the AC series so far, now i would have typed it out here, but i already typed it out somewere else, so i'm not sure if i can do this... i'm hopeing so, but here's a link to a thing i wrote about my thoughts on the AC series thus far. hope you like it. http://www.ign.com/blogs/the_a...-creed-in-this-blog/ (http://www.ign.com/blogs/the_atm/2011/07/14/all-assassins-creed-in-this-blog/)

again if that's not aloud i'm sorry. so what would you all think about having the option to have the classic ac combat system in?

roostersrule2
07-14-2011, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by livfreorletmedi:
Ok first off i'm back guys, none of you will know who i am but i'm back that's the main thing.

so first thing. i have always loved AC1's combat, it was great and it offerd a challenge, while ACII and Brotherhood offer little to no challenge in the combat secton, so in Revelations can we get an opton to have classic Combat system on or new combat system on? Classic would be the combat system from AC1?

Second thing, is my thoughts on the AC series so far, now i would have typed it out here, but i already typed it out somewere else, so i'm not sure if i can do this... i'm hopeing so, but here's a link to a thing i wrote about my thoughts on the AC series thus far. hope you like it. http://www.ign.com/blogs/the_a...-creed-in-this-blog/ (http://www.ign.com/blogs/the_atm/2011/07/14/all-assassins-creed-in-this-blog/)

again if that's not aloud i'm sorry. so what would you all think about having the option to have the classic ac combat system in? ac 1 and ac2 are the same just ezio could use hidden blades and a couple new counter moves thats it the only reason people think ac2 was easier was because it wasnt new to them anymore

E-Zekiel
07-14-2011, 09:54 PM
No, people think the combat in AC2 is easier because in AC1, counter kills were inaccessible for about 1/3 of the game.

roostersrule2
07-14-2011, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by E-Zekiel:
No, people think the combat in AC2 is easier because in AC1, counter kills were inaccessible for about 1/3 of the game. i suppose but the guards werent as hard at the start of the game

JeremyJOwens
07-14-2011, 10:07 PM
Its not a third of the game, and I always thought people exaggerated the difficulty of hidden blade counter, they weren't that difficult in my opinion. They just need to improve the AI a bit. For example, when someone throws dust at me in Brotherhood, half the time no one else attacks when i cant defend.

Edit:Hidden Blade counters in Assassin's Creed 1 is what I was talking about, to make it clear.

Calvarok
07-14-2011, 10:10 PM
Not to mention having more health, and medicine, as well as enemies doing less damage, and enemies not being able to do counter moves.

Brotherhood's enemies punished you for screwing up more, but they didn't attack fast enough to make it a challenge, and you still had to wait for them to attack. Also, the kill-streak sometimes didn't target, and the grab break counter sometimes seemed unresponsive.

If Revelation's hookblade really allows you to be more offensive, and enemies have upped damage and attack frequency, then the combat will be beyond amazing.

EDIT: to the above person, yes hidden blade counters were super easy, and the hidden blade was the best weapon to use, because you could insta-kill guards who cowered, or got distracted, or barked orders. If you play AC1 with the hidden blade only, combat is almost as fast as brotherhood, but nowhere near as interesting.

roostersrule2
07-14-2011, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by Calvarok:
Not to mention having more health, and medicine, as well as enemies doing less damage, and enemies not being able to do counter moves.

Brotherhood's enemies punished you for screwing up more, but they didn't attack fast enough to make it a challenge, and you still had to wait for them to attack. Also, the kill-streak sometimes didn't target, and the grab break counter sometimes seemed unresponsive.

If Revelation's hookblade really allows you to be more offensive, and enemies have upped damage and attack frequency, then the combat will be beyond amazing.

EDIT: to the above person, yes hidden blade counters were super easy, and the hidden blade was the best weapon to use, because you could insta-kill guards who cowered, or got distracted, or barked orders. If you play AC1 with the hidden blade only, combat is almost as fast as brotherhood, but nowhere near as interesting. not more health because in the last mission when i dropped down to about 1 or 2 health squares i would run around until it was full

Calvarok
07-14-2011, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by roostersrule2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
Not to mention having more health, and medicine, as well as enemies doing less damage, and enemies not being able to do counter moves.

Brotherhood's enemies punished you for screwing up more, but they didn't attack fast enough to make it a challenge, and you still had to wait for them to attack. Also, the kill-streak sometimes didn't target, and the grab break counter sometimes seemed unresponsive.

If Revelation's hookblade really allows you to be more offensive, and enemies have upped damage and attack frequency, then the combat will be beyond amazing.

EDIT: to the above person, yes hidden blade counters were super easy, and the hidden blade was the best weapon to use, because you could insta-kill guards who cowered, or got distracted, or barked orders. If you play AC1 with the hidden blade only, combat is almost as fast as brotherhood, but nowhere near as interesting. not more health because in the last mission when i dropped down to about 1 or 2 health squares i would run around until it was full </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Doesn't matter if the health regenerates, you still had less of it.

ThaWhistle
07-14-2011, 11:37 PM
maybe because ezio is getting old theyll make it so combat against a billion enemies isnt as good as an idea as it was in ACB... i seem to doubt it though.

Animuses
07-15-2011, 01:00 AM
Originally posted by livfreorletmedi:
so first thing. i have always loved AC1's combat, it was great and it offerd a challenge,

AC's combat was only challenging when you were fighting a Templar before you had the counter ability.

LightRey
07-15-2011, 02:03 AM
meh, I think the only reason AC1's combat was challenging was because it was relatively pathetic.

CRUDFACE
07-15-2011, 02:48 AM
Actual, in AC1's combat, the guards could counter attack you and ACTUALLY DO DAMAGE. In AC2 and up, when the guards counter attack you, you don't take damage and you couldn't spam heal in the old days either...or heal at all for that matter. Also, guards in AC1 could combo you if you didn't block enough.

Also, the commanders in ACB, the ones with the cape or totally easier than the Templars in the red helmets from the old days.

LightRey
07-15-2011, 02:51 AM
Originally posted by t260z:
Actual, in AC1's combat, the guards could counter attack you and ACTUALLY DO DAMAGE. In AC2 and up, when the guards counter attack you, you don't take damage and you couldn't spam heal in the old days either...or heal at all for that matter. Also, guards in AC1 could combo you if you didn't block enough.

Also, the commanders in ACB, the ones with the cape or totally easier than the Templars in the red helmets from the old days.
I was rather referring to the lack of fighting options for the player (it's either combo killing or countering really).

CRUDFACE
07-15-2011, 03:08 AM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by t260z:
Actual, in AC1's combat, the guards could counter attack you and ACTUALLY DO DAMAGE. In AC2 and up, when the guards counter attack you, you don't take damage and you couldn't spam heal in the old days either...or heal at all for that matter. Also, guards in AC1 could combo you if you didn't block enough.

Also, the commanders in ACB, the ones with the cape or totally easier than the Templars in the red helmets from the old days.
I was rather referring to the lack of fighting options for the player (it's either combo killing or countering really). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

you can still charge, strafe and such in AC1, but I think the problem I've had is that the enemies don't evolve with the game. Like they'll make Ezio stronger, but then the enemies will be downgraded or stay the same.

the_atm
07-15-2011, 09:11 PM
the Combat system in AC1 was a bit more challenging you coult not kill an entire army like in Brotherhood hood or Ac2, because the Coutner was not as forgiving as in the later games and like some one else said, the AI's could do damage! imagine that...

and yes you can spam heal in the latter games, but do you think that they could put in an option to use the AC1 combat system? one were you can't kill streak and the coutnering was harder?

Calvarok
07-15-2011, 09:54 PM
Enemies actually gained health in AC2. The borgia guys used to take one knife to kill, but by the time you get to forili, all guards take two. (other than specials)

I don't think enemies need to evolve, they just need to make sure that they have replaced them with new and better ones throughout the story, so that there's a challenge after you've beaten the game.

iN3krO
07-16-2011, 09:41 PM
@livfreorletmedi You hurted me when you didn't mentioned the stupid strongness of ezio's arm to be able to strike a sword with his hidden blade :X

The main problem of the combat is the AI (in ac2).
In AcB it's more the killstreaks that are just TOO TOO TOO OVERPOWERED... i would prefer combat streaks with some variants (won't repeat everything again), also, there is no REAL AI in AcB like in Ac1 :X

Loved your post in that blog, good work dude http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

LightRey
07-17-2011, 03:03 AM
Originally posted by daniel_gervide:
@livfreorletmedi You hurted me when you didn't mentioned the stupid strongness of ezio's arm to be able to strike a sword with his hidden blade :X

The main problem of the combat is the AI (in ac2).
In AcB it's more the killstreaks that are just TOO TOO TOO OVERPOWERED... i would prefer combat streaks with some variants (won't repeat everything again), also, there is no REAL AI in AcB like in Ac1 :X

Loved your post in that blog, good work dude http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
eh the AI in ACB is much better than the AI in AC1. The AI in AC1 was incredibly stupid compared to the one in ACB. The only thing the AC1 AI could do that the ACB AI can't is guard break.
tbh, I think they made Ezio that overpowered on purpose. It makes sense with him being a master assassin and all.

FiskMunk
07-17-2011, 05:00 AM
What bothers me is that there's such an emphasis on combat - When you fought in AC I, you know that you had screwed up (Unless you saved a citizen). You weren't supposed to fight, but sneak and stab. Y'know, the cool stuff!
In AC II and AC:B, however, you... Were forced to fight. Despite the clunky combat system that felt, at least to me, weird after a couple encounters. And let's not mention the fight against Rodrigo... Agh, I just did!

It did like the kill-streaks, though, when used against a mix of "tough" and "weak" enemies in Brotherhood - Like the fight with Cesare and the soldiers who continuously spawned. In that one, it felt great to throw an attack at Cesare from time to time while dispatching of his lackeys, to interrupt his attempts to shoot me and what not.
Made things more dynamic.

I think the AI should be more agressive, though. A simple thing to implement would be that they often attack you when engaged with other enemies, forcing you to quickly dodge or counter, right?

MCRMJ
07-17-2011, 08:39 AM
Totally agree on the being forced to fight point. Though I guess you can also try and stealth your way through. They should penalise you more for barging in or at least stop throwing you in situations such as the last few sequences.

It's more prominent in ACB, having to wade into Borgia Towers to eliminate one commander, yet he is almost always flanked by 5+ guards (especially the ones that are in tunnel areas).

Maybe though, with the Templars seemingly playing a bigger role in Revelations (the underground Templar city etc), stealth will be needed a lot more.

iN3krO
07-17-2011, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by daniel_gervide:
@livfreorletmedi You hurted me when you didn't mentioned the stupid strongness of ezio's arm to be able to strike a sword with his hidden blade :X

The main problem of the combat is the AI (in ac2).
In AcB it's more the killstreaks that are just TOO TOO TOO OVERPOWERED... i would prefer combat streaks with some variants (won't repeat everything again), also, there is no REAL AI in AcB like in Ac1 :X

Loved your post in that blog, good work dude http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
eh the AI in ACB is much better than the AI in AC1. The AI in AC1 was incredibly stupid compared to the one in ACB. The only thing the AC1 AI could do that the ACB AI can't is guard break.
tbh, I think they made Ezio that overpowered on purpose. It makes sense with him being a master assassin and all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No there is no real AI... there are archtype guards like:

Spearman: Always Block, You can NEVER counter him.
Agile: Always dodge, You can never attack him offensivly.

In Ac1 every guard did everything but the strongers (capitains, templars) did it more often...

AcB guards are harder then the Ac1 guards but they are no way smarter then Ac1 guards.
Also compared to ac1's altair and acb's ezio, the guards from acB are just toys.

BALANCE is what we need.

The game should get harder at each release, every player following the franchise would start in Ac1, then get Ac2 and it should be a little harder, then get AcB and a little harder. It would get ppl to play it more often. And that's why Ac should have a dificult level so those who thinks like me could play it without saying it wasn't as good as Ac1. (get better features for main char? yes. get features as powerfull as the main char ones? yes too.

Do not mix Ai and Dificult again http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

FiskMunk
07-17-2011, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by MCRMJ:
Maybe though, with the Templars seemingly playing a bigger role in Revelations (the underground Templar city etc), stealth will be needed a lot more.

Or at least encouraged in some way. And no, not the way AC I and II did with INSTANT GAME OVER if you were spotted by a guard the second before stabbing said guard. If alarms are a problem, it should simply change the course of the game when triggered (Causing guards to actively search for you and mass at the location that you were last spotted) rather than ending it and forcing you to try again.