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View Full Version : For the sake of Clarity- platinum DVD?



Chuck_Older
12-04-2005, 02:34 PM
Are we still hoping/assuming this is reality, or is it a definite reality?

96th_Nightshifter
12-04-2005, 06:17 PM
I honestly think there is still a lot of money to be made from this game, if they released a platinum DVD with all titles bundled together and done a little advertising they would be practically guaranteed sales. I mean, when Pacific Fighters came out the ONLY place I saw it advertised was on the History Channel, there are probably plenty of people out there that don't even realise there is a flight simmer locked inside them, an action packed advertisement would/could release that flight simmer lol - Seriously though.

jds1978
12-04-2005, 06:34 PM
96th_Nightshifter Posted Sun December 04 2005 17:17
I honestly think there is still a lot of money to be made from this game, if they released a platinum DVD with all titles bundled together and done a little advertising they would be practically guaranteed sales. I mean, when Pacific Fighters came out the ONLY place I saw it advertised was on the History Channel, there are probably plenty of people out there that don't even realise there is a flight simmer locked inside them, an action packed advertisement would/could release that flight simmer lol - Seriously though.

No doubt there. I bought PF on a total whim as the store didn't have what i was looking for. B4 i had never played a flight sim. Now i don't bother with any other games.

I think Oleg would do well to secure some deal with the History Channel to make some sort of regular series a la "Greatest Dogfights"...i seem to remember THC doing something w/ the RTW game engine a while back. The promotional aspect would be great.

i think a platinum DVD edition is inevitable. I believe Oleg stated over at SimHQ or some other popular site that it was a done deal. Let's keep our fingers crossed

VT-51_Razor
12-05-2005, 06:28 AM
I got money burning a hole in my pocket! C'mon people, lets help Oleg make those blockheads at UbiSoft understand what it is they're missing out on!

WOLFMondo
12-05-2005, 06:36 AM
I'd buy it! Put a few hundred skins from the community on it too please!http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

HeinzBar
12-05-2005, 07:50 AM
S!,
Count me in. I'd buy it to support the genre and the community. Having the entire series on one disk would be extremely helpful and a bargin IMO. Adding custom skins, as mentioned, would be a tremendous bonus.

HB

stathem
12-05-2005, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by HeinzBar:
S!,
Count me in. I'd buy it to support the genre and the community. Having the entire series on one disk would be extremely helpful and a bargin IMO. Adding custom skins, as mentioned, would be a tremendous bonus.

HB

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

Chuck_Older
12-05-2005, 10:04 AM
Welllll....sure

But is it realy going to happen?

WOLFMondo
12-05-2005, 10:14 AM
It will if we keep asking! We all know whining goes along way round here! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Just kidding.

I guess its a case of is it work printing several hundred thousand DVD's and there cases? Will they be all bought? Its ok for us to say we'll buy it but were a drop in the ocean as far as customers are concerned.

crazyivan1970
12-05-2005, 10:34 AM
As far i know it is a reality, unless something has changed... i`ll see what i can find out.

Sturm_Williger
12-05-2005, 10:38 AM
I thought the doubt surrounded whether or not the so-called "Russian addon(s)" would be included.

I have money as well to back up my mouth on this one. I'll buy, c'mon, Ubi !

Diablo310th
12-05-2005, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by HeinzBar:
S!,
Count me in. I'd buy it to support the genre and the community. Having the entire series on one disk would be extremely helpful and a bargin IMO. Adding custom skins, as mentioned, would be a tremendous bonus.

HB

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif too

Monson74
12-05-2005, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by Diablo310th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HeinzBar:
S!,
Count me in. I'd buy it to support the genre and the community. Having the entire series on one disk would be extremely helpful and a bargin IMO. Adding custom skins, as mentioned, would be a tremendous bonus.

HB

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif too </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif too too

Tater-SW-
12-05-2005, 01:33 PM
Yeah, additional content is required for me to buy it, otherwise why bother. So the inclusion of the Russian Add-on stuff is critical.

tater

mean_mango
12-05-2005, 01:34 PM
This may be a bit of a stretch, but a nice bonus on such a DVD would be to include user-made campaigns. Bird_Brain's "The Blue" and "Cactus Diary" to name a couple. And I know there are some P-38 and Me-262 packages out there as well. It's the user-made campaign that truely brings the offline game alive! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

LEBillfish
12-05-2005, 02:23 PM
Though I would buy it just to have it...or to be technical and specific...."just-a-cuz", I feel the request for the Russian add on is reasonable.

However, to ask for "community skins, sound files, missions, campaigns, utilities and the like", you're opening up a huge can of worms that would take I'd bet a year to assemble......Meaning, a year 1c doesn't have to be goofing around with what they already consider a last breath product.

Don't think so?......Some time ago I posted a thread about assembling a "Community Made Patch" of all the above...The little stuff many of us desperately want, can't find, or know we need. The request was to come up with some skins, utilities and sound files, and get 1c to authorize it so we ALL could have some of the goodies that we each only seem to have bits of.

The debate was rediculous..."who's skins, who's missions, who's sounds, etc.....Who decides what? on and on". Had nothing to do with generating the content just simply a matter of egos. That alone would insure no DVD.

So, Russian add on peachy......"FIX" the dern Ki-61 and give us the Ki-43-II and I'd be stunned.........Get the rest?......Don't hold your breath. The only way they would happen is for us numbskulls to put our efforts together.

crazyivan1970
12-05-2005, 03:27 PM
As far as i can tell, the purpose of Plat DVD is to satisfy new blood coming into this sim, since components of this simulation are hard to find nowdays. FB and AEP are pretty much MIA, while PF still could be found in the stores but PF stand alone doesnt offer whole alot, unfortunately. Besides, it`s nice to have the whole thing nicely packed. I`d buy it without new content.

VW-IceFire
12-05-2005, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
As far as i can tell, the purpose of Plat DVD is to satisfy new blood coming into this sim, since components of this simulation are hard to find nowdays. FB and AEP are pretty much MIA, while PF still could be found in the stores but PF stand alone doesnt offer whole alot, unfortunately. Besides, it`s nice to have the whole thing nicely packed. I`d buy it without new content.
Me too...even without new content it'd be nice to install all from one disc. If it means I have to buy a DVD-Rom (I have been holding out for some time) drive then I will. And if its got the Russian bonuses and all of the other good stuff then that'd be quite a bit better.

JG52Uther
12-05-2005, 04:20 PM
I would buy it in a heartbeat

WOLFMondo
12-05-2005, 04:35 PM
If there going to redistribute the whole thing over the EU and North America why not put the Russian addon in it? Isn't the reason the addon is Russia only because of Ubi? Ubi wouldn't be loosing any money by putting it on the DVD as well. That way they might make some money from it since those people who are doubting buying the DVD will have a reason too now.

Makes sense to me.

JadehawkII
12-05-2005, 06:11 PM
My feeling is UBI would stand a far better chance selling this Plat version WITH the Russian addon and all the current updates. Let's hope it also will include the "comming soon" Norway and Burma maps and that will just make it more sweet of a deal to me.

Oh yeah....I'll buy it alright http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

crazyivan1970
12-05-2005, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
If there going to redistribute the whole thing over the EU and North America why not put the Russian addon in it? Isn't the reason the addon is Russia only because of Ubi? Ubi wouldn't be loosing any money by putting it on the DVD as well. That way they might make some money from it since those people who are doubting buying the DVD will have a reason too now.

Makes sense to me.

Guys, how about this: Russian addon isn`t complete yet? But DVD is needed badly for newcomers?

goshikisen
12-05-2005, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Guys, how about this: Russian addon isn`t complete yet? But DVD is needed badly for newcomers?

A bit of a catch 22 from a business perspective... it'd be great for Oleg and Ubi to release a product that would appeal to the newcomer and the longtimer alike BUT the new content isn't ready and the iron is, slowly but surely, getting cold for the newcomer market. Take too long to appeal to both and you potentially lose one... release without any new content and you lose the other.

I know there are some folks out there who will buy the Platinum DVD whether it has new content or not... I am not one of them. Not to sound callous or anything... I just need a good reason to spend more cash on something that I, ostensibly, already own.

Regards, Goshikisen.

Feathered_IV
12-05-2005, 07:55 PM
I have to agree there. As much as I'd like to own a Platinum version "just because". I can't justify the cost without any new content.

Tater-SW-
12-05-2005, 08:17 PM
I have no problem affording a platinum version, but without new content I will not buy it, period. Why? Because the new content is 100% of what I'd be paying for since I have the old stuff. I have zero problem with paying for the add-ons, either, even if they cost more than the platinum, but I'm not willing to buy Platinum just for the sake of charity.

tater

Oleg_Maddox
12-05-2005, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
If there going to redistribute the whole thing over the EU and North America why not put the Russian addon in it? Isn't the reason the addon is Russia only because of Ubi? Ubi wouldn't be loosing any money by putting it on the DVD as well. That way they might make some money from it since those people who are doubting buying the DVD will have a reason too now.

Makes sense to me.

Russian add-ons will be distributed separatelly of this DVD. Simply becasue they are done by order (for money) and should return funds (even if it will be only part).

Feathered_IV
12-06-2005, 12:46 AM
Thanks Oleg. I hope to have the opportunity of buying these Russian addons if/as soon as, they become available in the west. If I can not get them until the second day of initial release, it will be a tragedy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


Oh, and I beg you - Is it possible to make a change to the code with a config.exe line (or something) to make AI navigation lights stay off? Then we can hunt at night too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Sorry to ambush you with requests.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

96th_Nightshifter
12-06-2005, 02:43 AM
Many thanks for the reply Mr.Maddox, very much appreciated.

alert_1
12-06-2005, 05:26 AM
And what about to make Russian addon downlaodable for those who buy PlatinumDVD for free? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Aeronautico
12-06-2005, 05:42 AM
Originally posted by Oleg_Maddox:
Russian add-ons will be distributed separatelly of this DVD. Simply becasue they are done by order (for money) and should return funds (even if it will be only part).

I take it's going to be distributed in the west too then. Otherwise any minimal amount should UBI pay for it to be included in its DVD (and sell X times more), would be added to what the producer makes out of the eastern markets.

WOLFMondo
12-06-2005, 06:14 AM
I hear you Ivan. Logic prevails in both my suggestion and yours.


Originally posted by Oleg_Maddox:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
If there going to redistribute the whole thing over the EU and North America why not put the Russian addon in it? Isn't the reason the addon is Russia only because of Ubi? Ubi wouldn't be loosing any money by putting it on the DVD as well. That way they might make some money from it since those people who are doubting buying the DVD will have a reason too now.

Makes sense to me.

Russian add-ons will be distributed separatelly of this DVD. Simply becasue they are done by order (for money) and should return funds (even if it will be only part). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the reply Oleg.

Could the Russian addon be distributed like Direct to Drive as well so us guys could also get to buy it?

If its really down to distribution then why not sell it via UBI's online shop where you can download games after you've bought them?

No DVD or package costs, the infrastructure at UBI is already there.

You could even put a key on the installer to stop piracy? Or put a code in the DVD version so those that bought it could download the Russian addon when its released?

*mondo is desperate for the Russian addon and will do almost anything to buy it*!

p1ngu666
12-06-2005, 06:16 AM
Originally posted by alert_1:
And what about to make Russian addon downlaodable for those who buy PlatinumDVD for free? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

good idea, charge more for the DVD, and then when russian addons are done they are "free", because we have already paid for it.

ubi should find that attractive as they will be aquiring the funds to pay for addons, before theyve been released

actionhank1786
12-06-2005, 06:22 AM
I'd love the Russian add on for free (if by "russian Add On" we mean the Pe-2, Il-10, and those beautiful '46 what if planes). But on that note i'd gladly pay for it, i've been wanting to fly the Pe-2 for years now.
On the DVD, i do think i'd buy the DVD edition, just for as stated before, ease of install, and just for the fact that while a college life doesn't warrant a whole lot of spending money, i know Oleg and company need money to continue. And if just a small bit of my money makes it's way into Oleg's paycheck, and the development of BOB then i'll be pleased as punch.

jeanba2
12-06-2005, 06:51 AM
I will only buy the platinum DVD if tehre is something meaningfull added to the current isntall (new map(s), new flyable aircraft ...).

Sturm_Williger
12-06-2005, 07:21 AM
Meh, I'd buy it anyway, but I do hope the Russian add-ons become available, not only for my own selfish wants, but to keep the whole sim synched. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

HFC_Dolphin
12-06-2005, 07:25 AM
I'm confused.
I thought that DVD would come with new content.
If no new content why should we buy it?
I hope the reply is not: "because it'll be easier to install"...

P.S. If the DVD comes only to attract new blood, that's another question. And it actually does not concern us who have already paid for IL2, FB, AEP, PF...

T_O_A_D
12-06-2005, 08:18 AM
Your right HFC_Dolphin

Heck I already have my entire install backed up on DVD. If I reformat or what ever I just copy paste, and fly.

But knowing me, if it comes out I'll buy it anyways, just to say I have it.

Chuck_Older
12-06-2005, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by Oleg_Maddox:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
If there going to redistribute the whole thing over the EU and North America why not put the Russian addon in it? Isn't the reason the addon is Russia only because of Ubi? Ubi wouldn't be loosing any money by putting it on the DVD as well. That way they might make some money from it since those people who are doubting buying the DVD will have a reason too now.

Makes sense to me.

Russian add-ons will be distributed separatelly of this DVD. Simply becasue they are done by order (for money) and should return funds (even if it will be only part). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, this is all the confirmation I need.

Thanks Oleg http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Chuck_Older
12-06-2005, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by HFC_Dolphin:
I'm confused.
I thought that DVD would come with new content.
If no new content why should we buy it?
I hope the reply is not: "because it'll be easier to install"...



I can answer that one, I think:

It's because if you like this sim, it's in your own best interest to do so

Consider what this sim is, at it's most base level: a money maker. All businesses are in the same business- a Hospital is in the same business as a Software publishing company or a Bank:

To make Money

There is no company in the world that spends money with the goal of making no money back

In order for Ubi to be shown that this sim is a venture that deserves additional content in the form of things like the Russian add-on, they must beleive there is a demand.

Please believe that all the "We want it, Ubisoft please make it happen" posts in the world are not as good a motivator for Ubisoft to actually do it as is a nice sales report that illustrates that commercial demand for the sim is still present

This is what justifies making product: demand on present sales and speculation of demand for future product

If Ubisoft sees that there is no demand for future product, why waste the money making it available? It is not good business sense.

You'd buy the "no new content" DVD for several reasons, including ease of installation, and convenience, elimination of patch order related problems if a reinstall is needed, and of course to make it all commercially available for those with slow, or even non-existant private internet connections- these people still exist beleive it or not

But the most crucial reason is continued support of the genre, and I don't mean just this sim. Showing support for the sims of 1C:Maddox Games sends a msessage to the part of UbiSoft that matters- their pocketbook

Showing no support for the product is a self-fulfilling prophesy. Support is shown by sales. If everyone has this "Well if there's nothing new I'm not bothering" attitude, then why would Ubi make the Russian add-on available to the people who don't want to buy the Platinum DVD? The thing that's shown is no interest.

You're looking at this as a simmer, not a bean-counter

The hard fact is that Ubi doesn't know, and wouldn't care if they even had a way to know, that you're still a fan of the series and of sims, and will buy the future content

What they see is a great big solid tangible reason to not make new content available-
if present sales are weak, what makes them think future sales for an unpopular title are going to be strong? Nothing

I am not in the software business but business is business, always. Good business is good, and bad business is to be avided. Spending money on making a product that their sales reports tell them is not going to sell is not how UbiSoft stays in business.

Does this mean you should throw money at UbiSoft?

Heck no! But a 60 dollar (that's a high end guess) DVD versus 200 bucks for a new control because it's cool, or 300 dollars for a new videocard because it gets a little better performance...you're showing those manufacturers they should continue doing it, for one thing, and for another, the Platinum DVD is cheap by comparison. I can't agree with the "it's expensive" argument concerning the Platinum DVD because of all the associated big money items simmers pay for a few extra FPS or whatever, but 60 dollars or so is prohibitive. I pay for all my bills right out of my pocket, I live it a place with high rent for low quality housing, and I still have all my other bills to pay, on 2300 bucks take-home a month. I know the value of a dollar, beleive you me

But anyway, simple business sense says that the company won't make new products that go with an old product if they are shown there's no demand for either. Support now in the form of money paid for product has a higher chance of a pay-off later than a bunch of words posted online. The saying is true: Money Talks, BullSh*t walks. All the talk about how much the add-on is wanted is BS until money (sales) backs it up. It's just how it works

Tater-SW-
12-06-2005, 10:25 AM
I disagree. There is only one way to drive a business to do what the customer wishes him to do (which is all the business SHOULD do---as the saying goes "The customer is ALWAYS right."). That way is with your wallet. Buying a poorly thought out product simply encourages more of the same.

I have no problem with constantly paying for something, I would play PF if it were subscriptive, for example. But part of that bargain would be continued development and attention to the customers. Buying something I already have is a fanboi move I won't do. It has a purpose, to get new players, that's fine. The decision to leave the loyal customer base high and dry on it was a wasted opportunity. The time to get it out the door is moot anyway---if it was to sell well for Christmas (most of the retail sales in the whole year) it would have had to already be on the shelves by now. Having missed xmas, they might as well try and sell as many by including the add-ons (even if the set costs more with add-ons, I have no problem with that, either).

So as I see it they are gunnign for new buyers, which is fine, but getting concerned about timing for them is a bit late since they blew Christmas. Having blown 2/3 of annual retail sales, they'd do well to pander to existing customers IMO.

tater

goshikisen
12-06-2005, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Showing no support for the product is a self-fulfilling prophesy. Support is shown by sales. If everyone has this "Well if there's nothing new I'm not bothering" attitude, then why would Ubi make the Russian add-on available to the people who don't want to buy the Platinum DVD? The thing that's shown is no interest.


That would be an odd connection for Ubi to make... any reasonable business person would realize that trotting out the same product in a different package is bound to have detractors. Ubi failing to publish the Russian Add-on because their clientele isn't willing to buy the same thing twice would be, well... silly. I have bought Oleg's products and will continue to do so... new products, that is. To expect the core audience to buy it twice seems too much like a cash grab to me... but then as someone else has mentioned, maybe we aren't the target audience. If we weren't then Oleg gauging response to the Platinum DVD on this very forum seems like an odd move.

New product... they've got my cash. If I have to buy things over again on the off chance that we may see some additional content in the future then the genre is truly in trouble and my ad hoc "charity" money will do little to help.

crazyivan1970
12-06-2005, 10:38 AM
Guys guys, you got your answer, this is how it`s going to be and that`s that. Nobody forces anyone to buy this DVD, if you already own the entire series, by all means, dont. Why some of you guys act like you`v been cheated? Don`t missunderstand purpose of this DVD release.

I`ll buy it tho...for two reasons - support to maddox crew and i want to have full blown clean install without numerious patches.

goshikisen
12-06-2005, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Why some of you guys act like you`v been cheated? Don`t missunderstand purpose of this DVD release.


Ivan... just for clarification, what is the purpose of this DVD release?

I don't feel cheated in the least and think the DVD is a great idea... I just have no need for it. I'd like to support the Maddox crew in what way I can but having a limited budget puts certain limitations on entertainment spending.

Regards, Goshikisen.

crazyivan1970
12-06-2005, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by goshikisen:
Ivan... just for clarification, what is the purpose of this DVD release?
Regards, Goshikisen.

As far as i understood goshikisen, main purpose is to restore missing bits and pieces of IL2 series. Meaning two base components: FB and AEP are nowhere to be found, that prevents new blood from coming into the sim.

goshikisen
12-06-2005, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
As far as i understood goshikisen, main purpose is to restore missing bits and pieces of IL2 series. Meaning two based components: FB and AEP are nowhere to be found, that prevents new blood from coming into the sim.

Appreciate the response... makes things clearer.

CornbreadPattie
12-06-2005, 12:06 PM
Try again, this time ask nicely http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Amagi
12-06-2005, 02:13 PM
If the DVD isn't going to have the Russian add-ons, because of timing or other commercial reasons, is there any realistic prospect of getting a 'community add-on' with campaigns, missions, utilities and custom paint schemes onto it?

Replacing the older default paint schemes would be better, but a community contribution could exist in its own folder as an optional addition to the install. This would help out the newcomers, and might also motivate them to search for more.

LEXX_Luthor
12-06-2005, 02:23 PM
crazyivans why not put New Italian planes, or Flyable -88 and Typhoon (or whatever) and maybe an IanMap on that DVD? Then all the Old Timers will buy -- everybody.

crazyivan1970
12-06-2005, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
crazyivans why not put New Italian planes, or Flyable -88 and Typhoon (or whatever) and maybe an IanMap on that DVD? Then all the Old Timers will buy -- everybody.

My honest answer to you Lexx... i don`t know. Maybe because that addon is not complete as well.

HFC_Dolphin
12-06-2005, 02:55 PM
Chuck_Older, in the words of our beloved OM I'm gonna tell you "You IS wrong" LOL.
No offense in what I'm saying, just using this funny phrase to start http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

I don't know what you do for a living, but I'm a businessman and if I tried to sell 2 times the same thing to the same people, I would lose my credibility. I can understand what Ivan said that this product is ONLY for the newcomers and I don't have any problem with this.
BUT listening to phrases like "I do own all copies of the series so far AND I'm gonna buy the DVD", or "I'm gonna buy it in order to help OM and 1C", or "I'm gonna buy it in order to prove that there is a community willing to buy NEW sim products", or "I'm gonna buy it because I respect OM" and all other similar statements, makes me SICK.
Makes me sick because I see that we, the community, have become badly addicted to a GAME and we are willing to hand over all of our Rights as clients.
Makes me sick because many times we have been "dragged" into actions of GodWorshiping to OM and 1C and this is just NOT right.
Makes me sick because we tent to forget the real world and the values of life. I say yes, I like to spend money for my hobbies and I work to earn them. But if I have spare money to spend, I won't buy the very same product, but rather I'll prefer to offer them to the Red Cross.

There are much I can say, but I think that I'm very clear in what I'm saying, what I mean and what I'm implying.

So, once again I say yes, sell this DVD or whatever else to new customers, but NO, do not promote it or try to convince people who already hold the product to buy it again. We must be clear in this and not accommodate such false and against our rights statements.

Simple as that. And now I hope that I won't see anymore worshiping statements that only make people taking the wrong decision. Resist to this. Wake up.

S!

jds1978
12-06-2005, 02:57 PM
what Oleg and Ivan says makes sense.

Finding FB/AEP has been d*mn near impossible for me. My sister-in-law snagged a copy for me and is holding it as a an Xmas present! God bless her!

Regardless, i'm not looking forward to re-installing, merging and patching up to 4.02 w/ my cr@ptastic 56k modem. yuck...i re-installed PF back in October and it took 12-14hrs of patching...talk about waiting.

the Platinum DVD is aimed squarely at people like me and my friends...late-comers to the whole IL2 thing who want a go at it in all it's glory. Of course i'm hoping for the Russian only add-on, but that won't make or break me regarding the decision to buy.

a) i want a back-up
b) i want something easier to install/merge/patch

The platinum DVD fits the bill.

thanks for the update OLeg and Ivan!

Tator_Totts
12-06-2005, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Guys guys, you got your answer, this is how it`s going to be and that`s that. Nobody forces anyone to buy this DVD, if you already own the entire series, by all means, dont. Why some of you guys act like you`v been cheated? Don`t missunderstand purpose of this DVD release.

I`ll buy it tho...for two reasons - support to maddox crew and i want to have full blown clean install without numerious patches.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

crazyivan1970
12-06-2005, 03:25 PM
Dolphin, are you ok there buddy? What`s wrong with people wanting to support their hobby? Has nothing to do with worshipping and kissing ***es. People do what they want and their reasons are their business, not yours or not mine.
Nobody is promoting this DVD, nobody is forcing to buy it either. Don`t bring up something that doesn`t exist. Neither Oleg or myself suggested to buy DVD to those who already own entire series, instead i made multiple posts clarifying content of this product in order to avoid confusion.

LEXX_Luthor
12-06-2005, 04:13 PM
I will buy many copies of DVD for gifts, and this is so much better than buying lots of different CD Boxes and making people download thousands of Patches with difficult Patch procedures.

All in one DVD makes astoundingly good business sense. But if they add just the Flyable Ju-88, then ALL the Old Timers will buy DVD for themselves too (or keep the gifts purchased for others -- we are all gamers, in the end http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif ).

3.JG51_BigBear
12-06-2005, 04:39 PM
If its reasonably priced I'd buy it. I dread one day having to reinstall all this stuff from the beginning. It'd be cool if the DVD included some new skins and maybe some missions but even without them I think it'd be cool to have.

Chuck_Older
12-06-2005, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by HFC_Dolphin:
Chuck_Older, in the words of our beloved OM I'm gonna tell you "You IS wrong" LOL.
No offense in what I'm saying, just using this funny phrase to start http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

I don't know what you do for a living, but I'm a businessman and if I tried to sell 2 times the same thing to the same people, I would lose my credibility. I can understand what Ivan said that this product is ONLY for the newcomers and I don't have any problem with this.
BUT listening to phrases like "I do own all copies of the series so far AND I'm gonna buy the DVD", or "I'm gonna buy it in order to help OM and 1C", or "I'm gonna buy it in order to prove that there is a community willing to buy NEW sim products", or "I'm gonna buy it because I respect OM" and all other similar statements, makes me SICK.
Makes me sick because I see that we, the community, have become badly addicted to a GAME and we are willing to hand over all of our Rights as clients.
Makes me sick because many times we have been "dragged" into actions of GodWorshiping to OM and 1C and this is just NOT right.
Makes me sick because we tent to forget the real world and the values of life. I say yes, I like to spend money for my hobbies and I work to earn them. But if I have spare money to spend, I won't buy the very same product, but rather I'll prefer to offer them to the Red Cross.

There are much I can say, but I think that I'm very clear in what I'm saying, what I mean and what I'm implying.

So, once again I say yes, sell this DVD or whatever else to new customers, but NO, do not promote it or try to convince people who already hold the product to buy it again. We must be clear in this and not accommodate such false and against our rights statements.

Simple as that. And now I hope that I won't see anymore worshiping statements that only make people taking the wrong decision. Resist to this. Wake up.

S!

A couple points to consider:

1) Telling me to "Wake up" is condescending and insulting. You start off with "no offense" and a little smile, and then proceed to talk down to me and then insult me at the end. "Wake up" is not a compliment. It is an insult you use to tell me that I don't know much, open my eyes and take a look around. Hey, you posted it don't get p*ssed off because I mentioned it. It's your doing, not mine. You are very, very clear in what you're implying, I agree; I can easily read between the lines. If you want to play this insult game with me, please know right now that I will respond in kind with insults of my own that you will not like. Just so we know each other's mind on the matter

2) You have quoted me as saying several things that I have simply not said. The other things you have quoted me on are your own re-wordings of what you feel I said.

I did not say I will buy it, firstly, but I will
I did not say that anyone should buy it because I respect Oleg or that they should respect Oleg
I did not say I'm buying it to prove ANYthing or to "help" Oleg. I'm helping me, Oleg can watch his own back, he's a grown man
I did not say those things. And yet you behave as if I did. If you don't know that by responding to me and then using quotes in that manner you're telling everyone that's what and how I posted, I'll explain to you now: You're saying that I posted that, which I did not. If you want to quote me, use the quote function and address the points you want to, and I'll rebut

And yet, you quote me and talk down to me, saying you're sick of the GodWorshipping, and also insinuating that's what I'm doing, and actually, you imply I'm trying to drag others down that road

You are way out of line and so far off-base it makes me sick

3) If you want to discuss why you feel my points aren't valid, that's fine, but I'm not some lickspittle lackey you can pontificate to. Your manner towards me is more than a little superior and assuming. You want to stop thinking I'm some ignorant little boy right now. You may even be the CEO of your own business, but we aren't in your boardroom or office and I don't have to take it

If you want to discuss this with me, stop the BS, ok? I'm a grown man and I don't stand for being treated like a little boy

My point is this, and if you read my other post again, you'll see it:

Ten thousand people saying "I'll buy it I'll buy it" is not the way to show Ubi that they can make money with this sim. Showing them sales is. Your business doesn't succeed with products that past sales indicate will not sell, does it?

You say I'm wrong, and as far as I'm concerned you're telling me that by showing UbiSoft weak sales of the Platinum DVD, they will be motivated to publish more material for this sim or future sims

I don't agree in the least. The flight sim market is not large. Console games and systems rule the market, and become more PC like every day. In order for there to be a future, we have to make it possible. Buy or don't buy as you like, it's not my problem or issue. I will, I want the convenience it offers. That's my affair not yours. But my dollars show Ubi a vote of confidence about the flight sim genre as well, there's no denying it

Please, lose the insults, OK?

Chuck_Older
12-06-2005, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by goshikisen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Showing no support for the product is a self-fulfilling prophesy. Support is shown by sales. If everyone has this "Well if there's nothing new I'm not bothering" attitude, then why would Ubi make the Russian add-on available to the people who don't want to buy the Platinum DVD? The thing that's shown is no interest.


That would be an odd connection for Ubi to make... any reasonable business person would realize that trotting out the same product in a different package is bound to have detractors. Ubi failing to publish the Russian Add-on because their clientele isn't willing to buy the same thing twice would be, well... silly. I have bought Oleg's products and will continue to do so... new products, that is. To expect the core audience to buy it twice seems too much like a cash grab to me... but then as someone else has mentioned, maybe we aren't the target audience. If we weren't then Oleg gauging response to the Platinum DVD on this very forum seems like an odd move.

New product... they've got my cash. If I have to buy things over again on the off chance that we may see some additional content in the future then the genre is truly in trouble and my ad hoc "charity" money will do little to help. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're looking at it from the standpoint that I am saying you should donate your money to someone. I'm not. You're taking one small point of what I said and making it the focus of everything.

The point of that passage you have quoted is that how do weak sales of the Platinum DVD show Ubi that there's money to be made?

I think one problem is that you;re assuming that I'm talking about everyone who already has the sim buying one (or maybe more) copies of the Platinum DVD. I haven't advocated that in the slightest. I have however put forth a couple reasons it might be attractive to established players to purchase, but I am not putting forth the opinion that the only customers are customers who already have the product. It seems that you feel this is my only angle and also my point

Dolphin makes the same mistake in his reply as well

goshikisen
12-06-2005, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Dolphin makes the same mistake in his reply as well

I think I got the gist of your post the first time around... essentially what your saying is "money talks and bull*** walks"... or, to precise, "show support because the purchase is the only statement that ubi cares about."

What I'm saying is "no thank you". The convenience factor of having all of the product on one disc is a remarkably weak enticement if 1. you already own the product and 2. you're going to have to shell out 50 to 60 dollars. If I still spent the money on the DVD to make a statement to ubi then am I not, in fact, making a contribution to Maddox Games continued success?

As you say... Oleg is a grown man and his company can and should stand based on the merit of its products. If I have to fork over more cash for a product I already own just so a company in France can hear cash registers ring then I'll pass. I know you're only presenting a perspective on the DVD... and not instructing anyone to do anything but I also believe that Ubi/Maddox Games is making a mistake and missing an opportunity if they can't release a product that every potential customer can see intrinsic value in.

CrazyIvan has already posted his explanation and I wholeheartedly support his take on it... but the propostion that Ubi must see more of my cash in order for additional product to be released... well, they'll be waiting for a good long time and I'll have found myself another hobby.

depalmer
12-06-2005, 06:32 PM
I strongly suggest Oleg include one or two easily added aircraft. (Lagg 3 series 1 or I-16 series 29 or 10, P-40N for example) Anything to prompt those who are on the fence to buy it. I know the Russian add-on would not be ready in time but none the less it would not be to hard to add a plane that requires very little or no new 3D modeling.

LEXX_Luthor
12-06-2005, 08:26 PM
Oleg could cause "Blue" Christmas shopping rush by modding Fw armour glass refraction to the DVD.

Or add IL-3 Compare to DVD for the JG Squads http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Stampede to Best Bear stores.

Grey_Mouser67
12-06-2005, 08:56 PM
Oleg aught to desync the HMGs, fix the radiator bug, improve the P&W and a couple of fighter aircraft's DM's, tone the yaw/wobble down in the Corsair, Jug and Mustang, improve the J lightnings climb rate and elevator authority, ditch the L model or fix it properly...aggrevating to get on servers with the regular L, improve stall characteristics and handling qualities of the Mustang, dive performance and E retention of the hellcat and call it 4.03 and sell it!

We'd have to buy the next patch! Nothing outrageous, just address some of the well known and documented issues.

ImpStarDuece
12-06-2005, 11:57 PM
How about fix the speed bugs on the 190D9, Ki-100 and Ki-61, high speed roll on the P-47 and Fw-190, add the appropriate or correced loadouts for the 109F, Beaufighter, He-111, Hurricane, Spitfire V, VIII, IX and AI Ju-88, add rockets for the 190, change the FM for the Hurricane, adjust the climb rate and ceiling for the He-111, fix the LODs on some Japanese, US and British aircraft, DM on the 190A serise, stall characteristics on the Spitfire, stall characteristics of planes with leading edge slots and THEN we talk about "improving" the Mustang, Lightening, Thunderbolt, R-2800 and the .50 HMG

HFC_Dolphin
12-07-2005, 12:13 AM
Chuck_Older it seems that you got me wrong, but still, considering what you thought about what I meant, you reacted pretty well http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. Thanks for not insulting me, cause I never meant to insult you. Really.

My ONLY reply to you was "You IS wrong" and I used this funny way just to start telling all the rest.

The rest of my post was not addressed to you and actually to noone specifically.
And of course not to Ivan too (btw Ivan, this is what EXACTLY I said in my previous post when I referred to you: "I can understand what Ivan said that this product is ONLY for the newcomers and I don't have any problem with this.".

But I still stand by my position in all I said.
And I don't think it's necessary to repeat them.

I just ask for some common sense and this is that money are worth something and this something can not be what we already hold, neither a couple of reburbished planes.
And not because I'm stingy, but rather because I respect money and what this can buy.
50-60 Euros can easily buy a DVD with no new content and can also easily save some lifes if you donate it to Red Cross or some other organization.

I think I'm done with this story. I made my point pretty clear and I repeat that I do not want to insult anyone particularly.

S!

P.S. I guess you do understand that English is not my first language (it's my third) and thus I may not be able to express exactly my feelings.

CornbreadPattie
12-07-2005, 12:44 AM
I'm glad that this won't be sold as one expensive patch. If it is solely for the new fans, then I'm glad that I won't be missing anything by not buying it. I just hope that it will be the same version that we will all have so that we can all link up online.

I sure hope that this gets some promotion - it really deserves it. Does anyone in the USA remember 1995's Fighter Duel- "The way it is - is the way it was?" The commercial for that got some decent airplay, and I hope that UBI can help market this because I know some aviation enthusiasts that still haven't even heard of this so they play CFS3. SAVE THEM! And make your boy some money!



chuck_older, will you please check your private topics?

Cossack13
12-07-2005, 08:30 AM
Buy it? Are you kidding?

FB + AEP + PF is the only game on my PC.

I'll probably buy extras to give as presents.

jamesdietz
12-08-2005, 10:02 AM
Just give me the new patch due out ...uh...last September....!? I'll be happy....

SeaFireLIV
12-08-2005, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by Grey_Mouser67:
Oleg aught to desync the HMGs, fix the radiator bug, improve the P&W and a couple of fighter aircraft's DM's, tone the yaw/wobble down in the Corsair, Jug and Mustang, improve the J lightnings climb rate and elevator authority, ditch the L model or fix it properly...aggrevating to get on servers with the regular L, improve stall characteristics and handling qualities of the Mustang, dive performance and E retention of the hellcat and call it 4.03 and sell it!

We'd have to buy the next patch! Nothing outrageous, just address some of the well known and documented issues.

Do I detect some well known bias here? I mean they are ALL US planes. If you`re going to fix one, then all needs fix, or you get a BIASED sim.

Anyway, I`ll get the DVD. It would be nice to have it all on one disc. No shockwave protection, though. Thankyou.

Grey_Mouser67
12-08-2005, 06:34 PM
Look the word up in the dictionary and then come back and talk.

I named the planes I did because those are the ones I feel are the farthest off. No plane is perfect but from a relative standpoint and to their relative strengths and weaknesses they should be modelled. The plane class I actually fly the most online is the Fw series...I particularly like the A-4 and A-6. I also feel that the Fw is perhaps one of the best modelled aircraft in the sim...perhaps a bit too much E retention with strong elevator inputs but this thing is a pure killer when flown right and very tough with great armament...I can think of a thing or two to improve but not to the degree the others need it.

There are others such as Mc202 and Lagg DM etc...but I chose to name the planes that should be improved as opposed to the more ambitiously modelled aircraft that need to be knocked down...suggesting that a plane is overmodelled tends to insight the local lynch mob and is not generally accepted in this forum.

I also believe that by releasing a patch with the DVD, Oleg can kill a couple of birds, one to increase sales and two to fine tune a couple of things that need it while getting paid for it.... not that I really expect it to happen.

In fact, what I am really seeing is Oleg fears to change much of anything because of retaliation and bad press. There are a few very obvious bugs like gun syncronization and radiator/DM bugs that aught to be addressed.

What I really found odd and inexplicable is that the HMG's were not sync'd in AEP...only after Oleg reduced the dispersion did he sync them...why???

I can speculate, but I immediately jump to the dark side on that one so I won't mention what is on my mind. BoB will be the acid test.

Markku38
12-09-2005, 03:52 AM
I have IL-2, FB, AEP, BoE & PF.

And I have many books about "LW Flyers"...

Have updated my rig and bought controllers etc.

If/when this DVD is coming - I'm gonna buy it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Well, it is small price about it's feelings http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

OK, I think I'm suffer Olegolish http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Sturm_Williger
12-09-2005, 06:36 AM
Personally, I feel that waiting until the Russian add-on(s) is ready would have been a better move - I don't think lots of newbies to the sim will be lost in the months it may take to get this addon ready, but having it in the DVD would guarantee sales even if not one newbie was out there.

I'm not a marketing type, but it seems a bit of a missed opportunity to have a new-to-the-sim DVD and then the Russian addon - The 2 separate releases even added together are unlikely to make as much as an All-in-one release would.

But I'm just a programmer, what do I know ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

NDS_Syb.
12-09-2005, 07:28 AM
Dont know why, i got all the stuff, but count me for the platinum anyway!

Just nice to show to my grandchildren in the not so near future, when I have to explain them the highlights off flightsims.

p1ngu666
12-09-2005, 12:37 PM
i may buy it, no idea where any of my pf/fb/aep disks are for example, if oleg adds new content (plane/map), and therefor new version, then we all buy it (onwhiners, anyways)

i thought there was "some" stuff done, ready for inclusion, maybe include that.

problem is, platium edition will soon be obsol33ted by russian add ons, there will be a couple of packages u will need to get to get onwhine.

shame we cant have accounts with 1c, so buy product, register, then when add on comes we can buy onwhine, and have option to dl or get posted game+add on package, then for each add on get same..

my dads cad software has a maintance deal, 500quid a year means u get all new updates and versions "free", the software is much more expensive to buy...

Chuck_Older
12-09-2005, 01:26 PM
I can't even begin to say how incredible it is to be misunderstood so constantly

"Money talks and bullsh*t walks" is not a comment directed to the members of the flight sim community. That is to say, it doesn't mean "Buy the sim or you're full of it" or even "buy the sim to support somebody"

It is a well known phrase. What it means is that Talk is cheap

Saying all these things about how much everyone would buy the sim is great

Saying and doing are two different things

Money is what Ubi wants. If the Platinum DVD sells poorly, what does that tell them to do? make more stuff for the sim available?

No. This is common sense.

If you make a car that nobody buys, and you sell it as a special options package with all the avialable upgrades on the car and people STILL don't buy it, does the car maker then market a trailer designed to be used solely by that car?

Yes, or no?

Tater-SW-
12-09-2005, 03:08 PM
So GM makes a new car that is exactly like a previous model, claiming it is a 2006 version. What you WANT is for them to make a new model---and they actually have a brand new improved version about to come out. You are saying that to get them to make the new model, buy the old version so they see there is a market for the new one a few months later instead of supporting them when they make the right decision and make the new car in the first place.

It merely teaches UBI that the sim community are so desperate they will buy anything, and there is no need for them to waste time figuring out what we actually want.

tater

Grey_Mouser67
12-09-2005, 03:45 PM
I'll probably send my brother a copy of the platinum edition...will be a simple install. He is an aviation and WWII junky like me but I can't get him to take the leap...he seems somewhat intimidated by it so maybe the DVD will help that.

I hope the Russian Add ons become Western Add ons...

I hope, one day soon, Oleg gets some real competition...not to do harm but to continue to perfect what is out there....this is a niche market and there is so little development and no competition for him now....I see US dogfight rooms and hyperlobby empty in the evening in America these days...297 players flying last night at 7:30 pm central when I logged on...not at all what it was a year ago when you couldnt get on because Hyperlobby only held 900 players.

VW-IceFire
12-09-2005, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by Grey_Mouser67:
Oleg aught to desync the HMGs, fix the radiator bug, improve the P&W and a couple of fighter aircraft's DM's, tone the yaw/wobble down in the Corsair, Jug and Mustang, improve the J lightnings climb rate and elevator authority, ditch the L model or fix it properly...aggrevating to get on servers with the regular L, improve stall characteristics and handling qualities of the Mustang, dive performance and E retention of the hellcat and call it 4.03 and sell it!

We'd have to buy the next patch! Nothing outrageous, just address some of the well known and documented issues.
That'd be great...those are all of my chief problems at the moment.

Enforcer572005
12-09-2005, 10:28 PM
my 2 cents....not asking for this, but from a profit perspective, it seems that just adding a small number of already ready planes (4 or 5, from new patch or rusn adon), maybe a map, etc, would cause many who already have IL2etc to buy the dvd....thereby adding sales.

Im not complaining or begging, just pointing out what i think would be a good, and simple to orchestrate, bsness move.

I would hve tried like crazy to ahve that thing ready for christmas.

goshikisen
12-10-2005, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
I can't even begin to say how incredible it is to be misunderstood so constantly


I suppose what I'm doing is directing my angst (for a scenario that hasn't even played itself out yet) at ubi by way of your realistic observation. If their logic is really as you've described then tell me how it can't be frustrating to the consumer. In your scenario new IL2 product hinges on the sales performance of a package that a large segment of the target market already owns.


Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Money is what Ubi wants. If the Platinum DVD sells poorly, what does that tell them to do? make more stuff for the sim available?


I can't even begin to say how much I already understood this point... I understand it constantly. Doesn't it seem logical that the Platinum DVD selling poorly is almost a forgone conclusion IF it is packaged as already described. We always hear about how small the market is for sims like IL2. Most of the core audience has already bought the product. What would motivate them to buy it again? Ever heard of a business term called "Value Added"?

Defined: To be a value added action the action must meet all three of the following criteria:

1) The customer is willing to pay for this activity.

2) It must be done right the first time.

3) The action must somehow change the product or service in some manner.

Does the Platinum DVD really fit into all 3 of these criteria? Ubi would be nuts if they thought it was sound business practice to base their future business decisions on the sales of a "double dip" DVD package.

Why not throw the oldtimers a bone with this thing... throw in a couple aircraft, a few maps perhaps, anything. Don't make the content available as a free add-on... throw it on the Platinum DVD and sell it, anything so that everyone can feel comfortable spending some cash on the package and Ubi can hear their cash registers ring.

Flakwalker
12-10-2005, 09:40 AM
Platinum DVD or Add-on CD-ROM?

Amagi
12-10-2005, 12:39 PM
It seems to be good customer relations to actually have copies of the game available for people who want to buy them, even without the Russian addons. FB-AEP-PF has been a peculiarly benign form of commercial activity so far, with maps being offered free when they could have improved the sales of add-ons, then the map makers offering new maps for free patches for the main game when they could have been patches for their own add-ons. We weren't asked to buy any new 1C products at all this year.

Every day of work that 1C put into the current game also makes BoB less ground-breaking, and it might seem ironic to be 'fixing' a wide range of planes for the current game when one of the purposes of starting the new series with BoB is to offer a more detailed if restricted planeset. Experimenting with improvements planned for BoB in FB-AEP-PF to get a broader response from playtesters is another matter, however, and I've become convinced that 1C are genuine when they say that they are still committed to the existing sim, by the fact of what has already been released- always the best kind of PR.

I remain curious about the lack of response to the idea of allowing the community some space on the DVD, as mentioned by WOLFMondo on the first page. It's possible that this is difficult for legal reasons, or because 1C would want to test the content themselves and haven't the time, but it would be encouraging to have this from a moderator instead of by conjecture.

SeaFireLIV
12-10-2005, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by Grey_Mouser67:
Look the word up in the dictionary and then come back and talk.



O...k...

Markku38
12-13-2005, 10:26 PM
Hmmm....

I've been thinking - Oleg & Co make this DVD that we've been silence and enjoys it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

So that way Oleg could take time BoB and we are not alltime answering or whining http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif we're not still been quiet http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

ParachuteProne
12-15-2005, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Flakwalker:
Platinum DVD or Add-on CD-ROM?

Thats what I am wondering. Is Oleg saying there will be no CD-ROM addon?
Don't really want to buy a DVD drive right now as I will be buying a whole new system when BOB comes out.

Mark

wolf.wotan
12-16-2005, 07:33 AM
Here I found it at my favorite online shop: http://www.play.com/play247.asp?pa=rcs&page=title&r=PC&title=866127