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Khaert
02-01-2006, 10:55 AM
hey guys,
sorry to put out another newbie question but i was reading a post and it was talking abouot how a plane had more energy or a someone asked a question about "did you think you could suck out enought energy (from that plane) to make him fly stright?" anyway .. i dont understand it.. ive heard the word "energy" used before but i was Soooo new i just wanted to fly. what is this all about.. i dont understand how a plane has energy... and i think i might be guilty of it.. i fly and bank around so much that i always end up sending myself into a spin.. do i need to after a while disengage and fly stright to save myself some "energy" someone please explane thanks ..
signed "the noob"

Chuck_Older
02-01-2006, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by Khaert:
hey guys,
sorry to put out another newbie question but i was reading a post and it was talking abouot how a plane had more energy or a someone asked a question about "did you think you could suck out enought energy (from that plane) to make him fly stright?" anyway .. i dont understand it.. ive heard the word "energy" used before but i was Soooo new i just wanted to fly. what is this all about.. i dont understand how a plane has energy... and i think i might be guilty of it.. i fly and bank around so much that i always end up sending myself into a spin.. do i need to after a while disengage and fly stright to save myself some "energy" someone please explane thanks ..
signed "the noob"

Well, you're on the right track here

It's simple in concept and complex in execution, really: Energy refers to the state of the aircraft, regarding it's ability to do anything. As you found out, energy is used as you manuever. When you're out, you need to get more, as you also found out- you stall and need to build up energy

Say I'm at 10,000 feet. I am travelling at 300 miles per hour. I have some pretty good energy- I have speed, and I can dive to get more energy

The worst case scenario- you're low and slow. 50 feet up, and 200 mph

I bounce you. (I attack while you're unawares). I dive down from 500 feet, and I'm going 400 mph

I have loads of energy. You have barely enough to fly

I can dive down, attack, use my energy to climb again, and then repeat the attack, over and over

You can only try to gain speed by opening your throttle- but my potential for gaining energy dwarfs yours

I can keep you under my thumb all day long, and there's nothing you can do about it. I might run out of ammo- that's your only hope

Be stingy with energy when you have it- but if you have to use it, do it decisively, and know how to leave the combat while you still have enough energy to do so. Always look to preserve the maximum energy while making the enemy expend his needlessly

Dragendorf
02-01-2006, 11:10 AM
Crikey, there's a lot of explaining to do to help you out! Here goes:

Energy: When people talk about the energy of an aircraft, they are referring to to physics of the flight, energy is either potential (for planes, this is height) and Kinetic (thrust) Kinetic is energy being spent and potential is stored. The Zoom and Boom Tactic is reliant on energy. Whe the aircraft is high, the potential energy is high and kinetic is mid (you need a forward airspeed!). Then the plane Zoom's down on the target, converting the potential energy (height) in to Kinetic Energy (speed). This enables the aircraft to fly really fast and avoid the returning gunfire. The pilot then, will turn the kinetic energy back into potential buy using the speed to get back up to the starting height, ready to re-position and repeat the tactic.

For an aircraft to spin, that's to do with flight dynamics. Spins are caused by a wing stalling and either a yaw or roll that is not corrected just before the stall is started. To prevent spins, prevent the wings from stalling. This is done by easing off the controls when you experience "stick shake" (in the game the airframe may creak and the aircraft will appear to shake (buffet)). This can occur at any speed as it is the angle of the wing against the airflow that causes the stall and is indirectly linked to the airspeed. All you need to do to avoid spins and stalls is to make sure that the angle is within limits. When a stall begins, return the wings to level and then initially trade a little altitude for airspeed and then re-open the throttle and gently bring the aircraft back up to height.

I do know that in a dogfight this is not so easy to accomplish, but with practice you'll soon be able to make use of the stalls and /or easily recover from them!

Try hunting around on the web (google search or something) for flight guides as they may explain it better than me, as I'm only just starting to learn to fly for real and Energy is basic Phyiscs so I'm sure there are lots of info out on the web to help.

Mark

Skycat_2
02-01-2006, 11:33 AM
Imagine a 'crotch rocket' motorcycle trying to outrun a Ford Crown Victoria police car.

In the city where there are are a lot of intersections, the light little motorcycle would have the advantage because it can quickly turn corners and keep going, while the big, heavy police cruiser has to slow down to make those same turns. The police car loses energy every time it must make the turn, and then has to work harder to build up its speed to match the motorcycle.

Now imagine the police car pursues the motorcycle out of the city and onto a state highway; the motorcycle has less of an advantage than it did in the city but the police car may still lose some of its speed when going up steep hills or rounding turns. Conversely, the police car (because of its mass) may actually gain speed when going down a steep hill. If the cop and motorcyclist go down more hills than they go up, then the police car will probably have the advantage. However, if the motorcycle suddenly turns down a side road and the cop car overshoots, then the motorcycle has the advantage because he has time to hide or change his direction.

Finally, imagine that the police car chases the motorcycle out onto a straight and level stretch of interstate. Now the police car's big engine can be used to its full advantage because the cop doesn't have to slow down for turns, etc.; meanwhile, the light little motorcycle is traveling at speeds that are pushing the motorcyclist's endurance. As long as the police car can match the motorcycle's speed and the cop is able to keep a visual on the motorcycle, he can wait until the motorcylist needs to slow down or stop.

In my examples the motorcycle would be what is commonly referred to as a 'turn fighter' (doesn't lose as much energy in the turns) while the police car is a 'boom and zoom fighter' (it loses lots of energy in turns and in climbs, but gains it in dives and in straight runs). If you're constantly turning and trying to climb in a plane where this is a weakness -- like the Corsair or Thunderbolt -- you're going to lose energy (speed) faster than your opponent; all the enemy has to do is keep turning until you fall out of the sky. However, if you use your weight and power to make a quick attack and then disengage before you lose that advantage, you'll be able to keep up your speed ... "Speed is life" because you can quickly trade it for altitude to give yourself a height advantage, or you can use it to put yourself out of your opponent's range and give yourself breathing room to plan your next action.

That's my low-brow explanation. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

tigertalon
02-01-2006, 11:57 AM
Hi Khaert

In a nutshell: before engagement always try to be higher/faster than your opponent(s), and try to maintain this advantage through the fight.

IronKestrel
02-01-2006, 12:04 PM
Here's some reference links that should help get your mind around it.

http://www.simhq.com/_air/acc_library.html

This is an invaluable course in energy and how if affects your situation in a sim a/c. One of the best on the web, IMO:
http://web.comhem.se/~u85627360/inpursuit.pdf (http://web.comhem.se/%7Eu85627360/inpursuit.pdf)

Hope this helps!

Dragendorf
02-01-2006, 12:19 PM
Hi IronKestrel,

Wow, what a resource! I would say that I'm not a veteran fighter pilot but I do have some considerable experience of online flying and I must admit, the Inpursuit pdf file appears to be a very good read. I have skim read the first chapter and fully intend to settle down with a hard copy and improve my skills!

Thanks for the link.

[edit - damn typos!!]

DmdSeeker
02-01-2006, 12:41 PM
Here's another way to look at it: Finance!

Think of speed as cash; it's in your hand and you spend it on demand (you lose speed when turning).

Think of altitude as money in the bank; you make a withdrawl by diving; that's to say you exchange altitude for speed.

You can always put your cash in the bank; as you can convert speed into altitude by climbing.

You can always convert your saving to cash; as you can convert altitude into speed by diving.

But when you're low on cash (you're slow...) AND you have no savings (you're low...) THEN you have a problem....

vocatx
02-01-2006, 02:23 PM
"Noob", you are getting some great advice here. These explanations should help you wrap your mind around the concepts.

Skycat, that is an unusual way of explaining energy tactics, but I like it! I've never thought of it that way, but that is a great way of explaining things. My hat is off to you.

IronKestrel
02-01-2006, 04:54 PM
DmdSeeker:
You can always put your cash in the bank; as you can convert speed into altitude by climbing.

Except that the "Bank" charges interest (drag and maneuver) on your cash withdrawal! You can borrow, but you'll have a little less afterward when you re-deposit! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I like this analogy as well!