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MEGILE
06-29-2007, 03:25 PM
Anyone got a quote. I have never seen one.

Bearcat99
06-29-2007, 03:33 PM
Every Tuskegee Airman I ever met said they hated the P-39. Some said that the plane mushed... he said that when you kicked your rudder the plane would twist.. but it would keep going in the same direction... Other said they weren't fond of that shaft going fore & aft between their legs either....

Bremspropeller
06-29-2007, 03:35 PM
I have never seen one.


Maybe it was those who didn't live to tell...

LStarosta
06-29-2007, 03:36 PM
I have seen many.

LaGG was called a varnished coffin for starters.
Probably because it was Russian.

polak5
06-29-2007, 03:47 PM
Not during but after the war the pilot FPSOLKOR interviewed had this to say about the aircobra and kingcobra.

"Q: What can you tell me about planes you flew during war and after its end?
A: Yak 7 was a good fighter, though a bit underarmed. Yak 9 was really good, fast, agile. In 7a I could see backwards, but in 7b visibility backwards was very low. In 9 canopy was as a bubble, so everything was clear. After war I flew in airkobra and kingkobra. Worst ever plane I flew."

Divine-Wind
06-29-2007, 04:05 PM
I know I've heard some.. Just can't remember who or where...

But I'm sure a lot of early Russkie jet pilots disliked their mounts intensely. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Phil_K
06-29-2007, 04:11 PM
I believe Johnnie Johnson was very uncomplimentary about Vivien Leigh.

JG4_Helofly
06-29-2007, 04:12 PM
109 late http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

BOA_Allmenroder
06-29-2007, 04:12 PM
The SB2C US Navy Dive Bomber did not get the nickname "Son of a B*tch, 2nd Class" due to its benign flight characteristics and unlimited engine power....... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Also, the early model of the US F16 Jet Fighter were not called "the Lawn Dart" for nothing.

Divine-Wind
06-29-2007, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by Phil_K:
I believe Johnnie Johnson was very uncomplimentary about Vivien Leigh.
LOL

neural_dream
06-29-2007, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by Phil_K:
I believe Johnnie Johnson was very uncomplimentary about Vivien Leigh.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

R_Target
06-29-2007, 04:48 PM
I'm sure someone can track down some doozies about the Brewster.

Scorpion.233
06-29-2007, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by Phil_K:
I believe Johnnie Johnson was very uncomplimentary about Vivien Leigh.

Explain please?

M_Gunz
06-29-2007, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Other said they weren't fond of that shaft going fore & aft between their legs either....

Sorry Bear but I have to say this!

He finally rode a horse with a bigger d__k than his!

LOL!

luftluuver
06-29-2007, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Other said they weren't fond of that shaft going fore & aft between their legs either....

Sorry Bear but I have to say this!

He finally rode a horse with a bigger d__k than his!

LOL! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>There was a story going the rounds that the vibration would make the pilot sterile. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Divine-Wind
06-29-2007, 05:09 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Xiolablu3
06-29-2007, 05:11 PM
British pilots didnt like the FAirey BAttle or the Defiant.

SOme pilots didnt like the Typhoon either, especially if they had transferred from Spitfires.

In fact there are quite a lot of copmplaints by all sorts of pilots after they transferred from Spitfires to another type.

German pilots didnt like the Me210.

US pilots and RAF didnt like the P39.

Israili pilots hated the S199.

Theres a lot when you think about it.

M_Gunz
06-29-2007, 05:16 PM
Didn't Hub Zemke's group fight to keep their P-47's?

VF-17_Jolly
06-29-2007, 05:31 PM
U S Navy:

F4U Ensign Eliminator

Crash_Moses
06-29-2007, 05:33 PM
The one in my sig. Unless he liked his mother-in-law...

VW-IceFire
06-29-2007, 05:42 PM
Just about everyone who had to trade their Spitfires in for something else hated the new ride. Even if the plane was a Mustang...they knew the Mustang was a higher performing plane than the Mark IX or Mark V they were typically replacing their rides with but they loved that Spitfire.

The USMC hated their Buffalo's during and after Midway. Something about lambs to the slaughter.

ploughman
06-29-2007, 05:51 PM
There's the B-26A which was called the Martin Murderer (Marauder), the Widow Maker, and so on as it's low speed handling and engine failure survivability was beyond cr*p.

The B-26B was a different fish altogether but still considered a naff ride.

luftluuver
06-29-2007, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
There's the B-26A which was called the Martin Murderer (Marauder), the Widow Maker, and so on as it's low speed handling and engine failure survivability was beyond cr*p.

The B-26B was a different fish altogether but still considered a naff ride. More to do with it being a high performance a/c and too hot for pilots straight out of school. A Martin test pilot put on an airshow, even flying on one engine (rolls etc) and if remembering correctly landed on one engine.

Xiolablu3
06-29-2007, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
There's the B-26A which was called the Martin Murderer (Marauder), the Widow Maker, and so on as it's low speed handling and engine failure survivability was beyond cr*p.

The B-26B was a different fish altogether but still considered a naff ride.

Yeah I saw a program about that plane.

Killed a lot of crew members. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

BOA_Allmenroder
06-29-2007, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ploughman:
There's the B-26A which was called the Martin Murderer (Marauder), the Widow Maker, and so on as it's low speed handling and engine failure survivability was beyond cr*p.

The B-26B was a different fish altogether but still considered a naff ride.

Yeah I saw a program about that plane.

Killed a lot of crew members. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

"One a day in Tampa Bay" was the supposed mantra at what is now Mac Dill AFB in Tampa during WW2. MacDill trained B26 crew.

ploughman
06-29-2007, 06:04 PM
OK, fine. You're right Luft. The B-26A was fine plane badly served by it's aircrew. Luckily it only took a test pilot to show the nuggets what morons they were. If only they'd received the correct tuition eh?

luftluuver
06-29-2007, 06:18 PM
How do you explain the lowest loss rate of Ameican bombers then if it was such a b11tch on only one engine.

General Doolittle sent his technical adviser, Captain Vincent W. "Squeak" Burnett, to make a tour of OTU bases to demonstrate how the B-26 could be flown safely. These demonstrations included single-engine operations, slow-flying characteristics, and recoveries from unusual flight attitudes. Capt Burnett made numerous low altitude flights with one engine out, even turning into a dead engine (which aircrews were warned never to do), proving that the Marauder could be safely flown if you knew what you were doing. General Doolittle himself carried out some demonstration flights with the B-26 in which he cut an engine on takeoff, rolled over, flew the plane upside down at an extremely low altitude for a distance, and then righted it safely. Martin also sent engineers out into the field to show crews how to avoid problems caused by overloading, by paying proper attention to the plane's center of gravity.

As I said, pilots fresh out of flight school being trained on low powered a/c had a hard time transitioning to a 'hot' ship.

Bearcat99
06-29-2007, 06:23 PM
My uncle was a crewmember on a B-26... flew the last misson over Korea.

http://star.walagata.com/w/bearcat/Jas53_1.jpg

Rjel
06-29-2007, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
OK, fine. You're right Luft. The B-26A was fine plane badly served by it's aircrew. Luckily it only took a test pilot to show the nuggets what morons they were. If only they'd received the correct tuition eh?

It also helped when they extended what was a very short wingspan for the B-26.

Rjel
06-29-2007, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
My uncle was a crewmember on a B-26... flew the last misson over Korea.

Err... umm... that's the A-26 Invader

Bearcat99
06-29-2007, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by Rjel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
My uncle was a crewmember on a B-26... flew the last misson over Korea.

Err... umm... that's the A-26 Invader </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ER Umm I think not.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Granted after 48 the A-26 was called the B-26.. then in 66 I believe it was renamed again the A-26A.. regardless.. in 53 it was the B-26.

Xiolablu3
06-29-2007, 06:41 PM
Thats bloody awesome Bearcat!

Is he actually the one on the left in the photo?

Rjel
06-29-2007, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rjel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
My uncle was a crewmember on a B-26... flew the last misson over Korea.

Err... umm... that's the A-26 Invader </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ER Umm I think not.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Granted after 48 the A-26 was called the B-26.. thern in 66 I believe it was renamed again the A-26A.. regardless.. in 53 it was the B-26. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


OK. I'll give you that one. Maybe I misunderstood your post. The previous post had been about the WWII B-26 Marauder. My mistake, I guess.

Bearcat99
06-29-2007, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Thats bloody awesome Bearcat!

Is he actually the one on the left in the photo?

Yes he is... I uswed to play with his old oxygen mask that my grandmother had in the attic... I used to fly on the steps..LOL... Diving was fun.. just slide down the steps going ..."Eeeeeeaaaaahhhhnnnnnnnnnnnnhhhhhhh!!!!" with all the obligatory machine gun sounds that a 5 year old can make. Climbing was a little less... immersive.. LOL.


Originally posted by Rjel:
OK. I'll give you that one. Maybe I misunderstood your post. The previous post had been about the WWII B-26 Marauder. My mistake, I guess.

NP.... besides... with two planes designated B-26... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif..

Xiolablu3
06-29-2007, 06:59 PM
EDITED : Too Off topic.

luftluuver
06-29-2007, 07:05 PM
Is that the latest PC word, Xio? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Divine-Wind
06-29-2007, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Yes he is... I uswed to play with his old oxygen mask that my grandmother had in the attic... I used to fly on the steps..LOL... Diving was fun.. just slide down the steps going ..."Eeeeeeaaaaahhhhnnnnnnnnnnnnhhhhhhh!!!!" with all the obligatory machine gun sounds that a 5 year old can make. Climbing was a little less... immersive.. LOL.
You got to play with his oxygen mask!?

All I ever got was my dad's (Recently retired P-3 pilot) headset. Granted, it was fun to sit a makeshift cockpit (sofa with cushions stacked around it) and wear the big clunky thing, but an oxygen mask... *drools*

Xiolablu3
06-29-2007, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by luftluuver:
Is that the latest PC word, Xio? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



I wouldnt say 'that' is a PC word?


But seriously I dont follow....


I dont think I will get an answer anyway. PLease feel free to explain what you meant.

MrMojok
06-29-2007, 10:22 PM
that's very cool , Bearcat! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Grand_Armee
06-29-2007, 11:23 PM
AS a teenage boy reading I Flew for the Fuhrer, I remember being disappointed that Knoke never called his planes anything more than 'crates'. The only detail he gave on performance was that there was one manuever that the bf-109 could do that no other could: That was a tight spiral climb. However, this was late in the war, and it didn't seem to matter that it saved his bacon because there were always swarms of American fighters around to pounce once he came out of the spiral climb.

I read Galland's 'The First and the Last' and don't remember him saying much except that the the 109 should be got rid of in favor of the 190.

I do know that his bf-109F had MG/FF cannon installed in the wings because he thought that firepower was lacking in that version.

If anyone had right to complain it woulda been those IJA pilots who had such poorly armed fighters in the early years.

M_Gunz
06-29-2007, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by BOA_Allmenroder:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ploughman:
There's the B-26A which was called the Martin Murderer (Marauder), the Widow Maker, and so on as it's low speed handling and engine failure survivability was beyond cr*p.

The B-26B was a different fish altogether but still considered a naff ride.

Yeah I saw a program about that plane.

Killed a lot of crew members. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

"One a day in Tampa Bay" was the supposed mantra at what is now Mac Dill AFB in Tampa during WW2. MacDill trained B26 crew. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've seen the point about losses in B-26A's raised years ago and answer was how many losses
occurred in Florida on really hot, humid days when the air doesn't give as much lift or thrust.
If you weren't ready for that then in you went.

Just a guess, that plane did not have a lot of margin.

zardozid
06-29-2007, 11:50 PM
If anyone had right to complain it woulda been those IJA pilots who had such poorly armed fighters in the early years.


some pilots didn't like the zero at first...

Deadmeat313
06-30-2007, 02:09 AM
Many VVS pilots complained bitterly when they were made to upgrade to the Mig-3 from the I-16.



T.

Friendly_flyer
06-30-2007, 03:29 AM
The clipped wing Spitfire was not not overly popular with pilots used to the full wing type. The term "clipped, cropped, crapped" was used a lot.

Feathered_IV
06-30-2007, 05:24 AM
I read a great RN book called Carrier Pilot by Norman Hanson who flew Corsairs. He was trained in the US as an exchange thing. When he got back to Blighty he flew the Tiger Moth and hated it with a passion. He referred to it as a, "Flying brown paper bag".

carts
06-30-2007, 06:52 AM
Some pilots of I.and II./JG54 when on conversion to the Fw190 from the Bf 109 described the 190 as "Landing like a wet sack" and as "A wardrobe"
One pilot also noted,that when taking off,the 190 looked like "a Bullfrog on water Skis'" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

zardozid
06-30-2007, 08:44 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Thats bloody awesome Bearcat!

Is he actually the one on the left in the photo?



Yes he is... I uswed to play with his old oxygen mask that my grandmother had in the attic... I used to fly on the steps..LOL... Diving was fun.. just slide down the steps going ..."Eeeeeeaaaaahhhhnnnnnnnnnnnnhhhhhhh!!!!" with all the obligatory machine gun sounds that a 5 year old can make. Climbing was a little less... immersive.. LOL.

thats neat... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Divine-Wind
06-30-2007, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by carts:
One pilot also noted,that when taking off,the 190 looked like "a Bullfrog on water Skis'" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
About sums it up. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif But a pretty frog it is.

quasimodo_3
06-30-2007, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by Megile:
Anyone got a quote. I have never seen one.

Doesn't pertain to his planes that saw action but references the P-39 and P-40 training he received before being sent to England to fly P-47's and P-51's.

Norman "Bud" Fortier from "An Ace of the Eighth" Ballentine Books 2003.

On the P-39;

"I took a deep breath to calm myself down a little then gently pushed the throttle to full open position and released the brakes. I felt a surge of power as the airplane swiftly gathered speed, pushing me back in the seat. Just before liftoff speed, I pulled the nosewheel up a little and the P-39 seemed to leap off the ground. I pulled the gear handle up and set the throttle and prop control to the climb settings.
Clean, streamlined and responsive, the P-39 headed skyward."
"At ten thousand feet I leveled off and had that heady feeling of speed and power as the streamlined fighter accelerated quickly and smoothly. I had never reached ten thousand feet in such a short time, and I felt an elation that is hard to describe. This airplane required the pilot to think ahead because it was 'moving'! I felt so good that I had to do a couple of rolls, in spite of the fact that the aerobatics phase of the training was to come later." In the end he says "All too soon,the P-39 orientation was over." He really liked the P-39.

On the P-40;

"My first flight in the P-40 is still etched in my memory. Challenge no. 1 was keeping the thing on the runway during the takeoff roll. I couldn't see over that huge nose in front of the cockpit, and I was standing on the right rudder to keep the engine torque from pulling me off the left side of the runway and into a swamp."
"As the tail lifted, I could see over the nose, and that helped. When the airspeed increased, the P-40 came alive and lifted into it's own element. It began to act like an airplane."

He continues on about Challenge No. 2 being the shortcomings of the design of the hydraulic system that the landing gear functions off of, using a manually operated valve actuated by a ring on the control stick to release hydraulic fluid to get to the gear so that it would retract all the while trying to control the plane.

At the end of his P-40 training he writes;

"After the P-39, the P-40 felt like a Mack truck. It required a heavy hand on the stick, and we always seemed to be standing on one rudder or the other to counter the engine torque. I flew it only about five times. To put it mildly, I didn't like it, and I hoped we wouldn't have to go into combat with it."

This reminds me of a few of the FM's in game but not the P-40's. The Jug seems like it fits his description better. He had no complaints about either the Jug or the Mustang. He was mostly running escorts for bombing runs during '43 and in late war after there was little fighter resistance from Germany his squadron did a lot of strafing attacks on whatever was left on the ground.

JG14_Josf
06-30-2007, 11:37 AM
We released our bombs and watched their fall...
...we were at an altitude of 7,000 meters. But Walter continued to climb. We were in a gentle left-hand turn, flying in tight formation, with me tucked in on the inside close beside Walter. I was aware of him watching me.
It was at that moment that my wing leading-edge slots popped open, an indication that I was in danger of stalling. If I stayed in the inside position, and if Walter continued to fly this close to stalling speed, I would not be able to hold the Gustav very much longer. I had no other option but to try to change sides; to take up station on Walter's right on the outside of the turning circle. The throttle was already fully forward, I could not get another ounce of power out of it. So I eased off slightly, sacrificed a little height, and began to slide under and behind his aircraft.
Suddenly I found myself caught in his propeller wash. My machine rocked violently and then – with its wings remaining almost perfectly level – began to rotate about its vertical axis. There was no response from either stick or rudder pedals, the controls were completely slack. As the Me 109 started sinking toward the ground, whirling round and round like the blades of a helicopter rotor...
I pushed the stick forward as far as it would go – nothing!!!
...I had one last chance, the large tailplane trim wheel down to the left beside my seat. If I could alter the trim to make the machine sufficiently nose heavy, maybe that would enable me to get it pointing earthwards. I began to crank the wheel with all my might...
This was something I had been shown how to handle during training. I applied full opposite rudder and held the sick pressed forwards with both hands. The spinning motion slowed down and stopped. But I was sill diving vertically towards the ground. The altimeter had unwound to just 1,000 meters and the airspeed indicator was showing 650 km/h as


Since February the pilots of I and II Gruppen [JG 54 1943] had been rotating back to the homeland in small batches for conversion on to the Fw190A. The ˜Forke', or ˜Pitchfork', as we christened it, was a much more robust bruiser of a fighter than the Me 109G. It was powered by a 1,700 hp BMW radial engine and...
The Fw 190's performance and flying characteristics were equally impressive. In a dive it could exceed 700 km/h. It was highly responsive around all axis, could be reefed into a tight turn, and gave its pilot ample warning of a stall by sharp, jerky aileron movements. If these were ignored, the machine would automatically go into a flick half roll, losing height and turning through 180 degree in less time than it takes to describe here. This manoeuvre was virtually impossible for another pilot to follow. If you were in a dogfight, and had sufficient altitude, it was a sure way of getting an opponent off your tail. This 'built-in' escape tactic was the saving of many Forke pilot who found himself in extremis.
This conversion course took place at Heilingenbeil airfield in East Prussia, where the new fighters were delivered direct from a nearby factory. The Geschwader kept a rear party based at the field, who were responsible for conducting the conversion training.


As we broke through above them we became aware of condensation trails lancing down towards us. In bunches of four, these could only be the bombers' top cover fighter escorts. Within seconds I had four, then eight, and finally twelve Mustangs sitting on my tail. But while I was flying close above the stream they were unable to open fire on me for fear of hitting their own bombers. This dubious sanctuary did not last long. The high combined closing speed which had protected us during our frontal assault on the bombers now worked against me and I soon found myself hurtling past the last squadron in the formation and out into clear sky beyond.
I immediately began to yo-yo; turning steeply, diving and climbing, climbing and diving. My pursuers didn't seem to know what to make of my Russian front aerobatics. They clung on grimly behind me, but couldn't hold me in their sights long enough to get in an effective burst. I spied a welcome bank of cumulus ahead of me and slightly below. After three more complete circles I was directly above one of the larger clouds. I yanked the stick to the left back into my belly and trod hard on the full right rudder. My machine spun down into the cloud.
In my temporary haven I let go of the controls. The trusty Forke at once righted itself and I shot out from the bottom of the cloud into sunlight again. Where were the Mustangs? I looked up and saw them circling the cloud-top above me. I put my nose down and got out of there fast.

Norbert Hannig (http://www.amazon.com/Luftwaffe-Fighter-Ace-Norbert-Hannig/dp/1904010946/sr=1-1/qid=1169580863/ref=sr_1_1/103-2426623-3413408?ie=UTF8&s=books)

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51rWzm3drwL._AA240_.jpg

Note: I didn't say anything until now.

zugfuhrer
06-30-2007, 12:30 PM
The F4U was called "widowmaker" because it was so difficult to land on carriers. It got such a long nose.

If you look at clips from WWII carrier landings with the F4U it makes no linear aproach, it makes a rather steep curve onto the deck.
It was not popular among the pilots because of this.

XyZspineZyX
06-30-2007, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by Megile:
Anyone got a quote. I have never seen one.

Tex Hill called the P-40 "Kind of a doggy airplane"

Xiolablu3
06-30-2007, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by JG14_Josf:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">We released our bombs and watched their fall...
...we were at an altitude of 7,000 meters. But Walter continued to climb. We were in a gentle left-hand turn, flying in tight formation, with me tucked in on the inside close beside Walter. I was aware of him watching me.
It was at that moment that my wing leading-edge slots popped open, an indication that I was in danger of stalling. If I stayed in the inside position, and if Walter continued to fly this close to stalling speed, I would not be able to hold the Gustav very much longer. I had no other option but to try to change sides; to take up station on Walter's right on the outside of the turning circle. The throttle was already fully forward, I could not get another ounce of power out of it. So I eased off slightly, sacrificed a little height, and began to slide under and behind his aircraft.
Suddenly I found myself caught in his propeller wash. My machine rocked violently and then – with its wings remaining almost perfectly level – began to rotate about its vertical axis. There was no response from either stick or rudder pedals, the controls were completely slack. As the Me 109 started sinking toward the ground, whirling round and round like the blades of a helicopter rotor...
I pushed the stick forward as far as it would go – nothing!!!
...I had one last chance, the large tailplane trim wheel down to the left beside my seat. If I could alter the trim to make the machine sufficiently nose heavy, maybe that would enable me to get it pointing earthwards. I began to crank the wheel with all my might...
This was something I had been shown how to handle during training. I applied full opposite rudder and held the sick pressed forwards with both hands. The spinning motion slowed down and stopped. But I was sill diving vertically towards the ground. The altimeter had unwound to just 1,000 meters and the airspeed indicator was showing 650 km/h as

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You cant leave it there !! what happened next??

ploughman
06-30-2007, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by zugfuhrer:
The F4U was called "widowmaker" because it was so difficult to land on carriers. It got such a long nose.

If you look at clips from WWII carrier landings with the F4U it makes no linear aproach, it makes a rather steep curve onto the deck.
It was not popular among the pilots because of this.

Yes, the Corsair was binned as a carrier plane until the curving approach was devised by the FAA . Interestingly I read something by a warbird pilot who, in the 90s, was told by Mark Hannah that if he ever brought the Spit in straight he'd never fly it again.

Also, apologies to Luftluver for my slightly snotty response to his post Re: the B-26 and thanks for the info he posted about the way the USAAF disseminated good practice on the B-26 to operational units.

Daisan1981
06-30-2007, 01:11 PM
Soviet pilots called P-40 "SUKA I SVOLOCH" - "B*TCH AND BA*TARD"

Polyperhon
06-30-2007, 02:10 PM
I am surprised nobody mentioned the Hurricane.Slow and unresponsive, most pilots that had experience of other fighters (even P-40) expressed a negative view for ir.One spifire pilot said that "it flew like a brick".

The plane that possibly gets the most contradictory views of all in the war was the P-39.From the written accounts, you can't really understand much.The way it is modelled in the IL-2, is fantastic.I love it! The thing is that it flies differently than anything else and that really need to know how to fly it!( ...this yaw sliding is amazing...)

Pilots who transitioned from single to twin engined fighters usually never liked them, no matter what their performance would be.But I think this was a general problem, since there was a marked border between fighters and bombers almost until the beggining of the 2nd WW, and the pilots didn't know how to approach a plane that was neither a pursuit (as they were used to understand the term), neither a bomber, but something in between.

The most confused pilots of all in the war seem the japanese.Having a fixed idea before the war that agility is the no1 priority in air battle and that the rest is just a welcome bonus,they seemed completely lost when things didn't go exactly as planned.All pilots seem that they loved the zero, even when new fighters came, which they didn't like and only very late in the war they aknowledge that their plane was dated,but in a way that leads to us to a lot of confusion.Some pilots they thought highly about the J2M,some stuck with the zero thought that it flew like a truck.And things are even more confusing for army pilots. Pilots that went from ki-43 they didn't like the Ki-61 and pilots from ki-61 didn't like the ki-84.Everybody seems that didn't like the ki-44, but still the much praised ki-84 proved only marginally superior in real battle, as it needed an expert veteran to get the best out of it.And Ki-43 went on production despite the fact that another 3 figher types (4 with ki-100) went on production after it, and rookies were thrown mainly into it. I wish that Oleg had given us the Ki-43-III and Ki-44, it would be very interesting you know... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

Dtools4fools
06-30-2007, 04:53 PM
Kamikaze pilots didn't bit*h about their planes.

****

rnzoli
06-30-2007, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
You cant leave it there !! what happened next??
Buy the book to know! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Just kidding.

He gently pulled up to level flight at 500m. His leader congratulated him for saving the plane (previously via radio he ordered him to bail immediately due to the flat spinning).

IIRC his flight leader later died when made a forced landing on soft soil, nosed over, and the armored seat broke his spine. He became paralized and lived only a few more days.

R_Target
06-30-2007, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
Yes, the Corsair was binned as a carrier plane until the curving approach was devised by the FAA

The F4U was held back for a variety of reasons, mostly mechanical. In the summer of 1943, Vought engineers worked with members of VF-17 to fix the bouncing landing gear and wing drop at the stall, as well as other mechanical problems. These changes were incorporated into subsequent production Corsairs.

Delays in the F4U program, as well as the problems of maintaining spare parts for two carrier fighters prompted the USN to choose the Hellcat. VF-12 (the first F4U squadron) chose to switch to Hellcats and stay with their carrier. VF-17 went ashore with their Corsairs, but performed combat carrier landings in November 1943 aboard USS Bunker Hill and USS Essex. Strangely enough, F4U-2 nightfighters were cleared for carrier use and began service in January 1944.

How does the RN's landing approach differ from the USN's?

LStarosta
07-01-2007, 07:03 AM
Originally posted by Daisan1981:
Soviet pilots called P-40 "SUKA I SVOLOCH" - "B*TCH AND BA*TARD"

They wouldn't know a good aircraft built by free capitalist hands if it dropped a nuke on Moscow!

zugfuhrer
07-01-2007, 12:50 PM
Polyperhon I agree with you, the P-39 was so bad that USAF/RAF used as little as possible, USAF used it for target practise. The got education ammo against an armoured P-39.

" The RAF pilots hated the Airacobra mainly because of its now poor performance over 20,000 ft and a tendency to spin, with a marked difficulty to recover from a spin. Also they complained that the M4 cannon had a tendency to jam, but they did concede it was an effective fighter below 15,000 feet. They eventually returned the aircraft back to USAAC who used them in the early days of the Pacific war, in places like Guadalcanal."

" The US pilots had the same complaints as the RAF and were soon requesting transfers to the P-38 squadrons. In fact there was a standing joke about the P-39; the RAF had renamed the model the P-400 and the story was that a P-400 was a P-39 with a Zero on its tail. As the P-38 Lightning was phased in, the P-39s were ferried to Russia as part of the Allied assistance to the Eastern front. Of the 9,585 P-39s built, 4,500 were given to the USSR. The P-39 was fast gaining the reputation of being the worst fighter plane of WWII."

Because the most famous Soviet fighter heroes
Aleksandr I. Pokryshkin flew one everyone of his fans want to do the same thing as he did in this game, it is modelled better than what I guess it would be.

I think this game dwarf the heroism of the VVS airmen by doing this.

They flew into battle with mostly inferior aircrafts I-16, LaGG 3, Yak 1 etc a/c:s of bad technical standard.
But they got the guts to go up and fight LW anyway.

As with more modern soviet technology the basic idea was healthy but when the tank a/c or wathever it was came into serial production the precision was bad. The T-62 T-72:s are example of this.

As an example of russian manufacture, A friend of mine bought an Dnepr the first thing he did was to take it apart and reassembled it correct.
There where metal pieces in the engine, unsufficient drilled oil-holes etc etc.
But after this and an electronical ignition it runned quite well.

But todays aircraft builders seems to have done a goog job with the Su-family.

BOA_Allmenroder
07-01-2007, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BOA_Allmenroder:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ploughman:
There's the B-26A which was called the Martin Murderer (Marauder), the Widow Maker, and so on as it's low speed handling and engine failure survivability was beyond cr*p.

The B-26B was a different fish altogether but still considered a naff ride.

Yeah I saw a program about that plane.

Killed a lot of crew members. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

"One a day in Tampa Bay" was the supposed mantra at what is now Mac Dill AFB in Tampa during WW2. MacDill trained B26 crew. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've seen the point about losses in B-26A's raised years ago and answer was how many losses
occurred in Florida on really hot, humid days when the air doesn't give as much lift or thrust.
If you weren't ready for that then in you went.

Just a guess, that plane did not have a lot of margin. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fantasy of Flight in Florida has the only remaing B26 flyable, IIRC. I once saw an interview with Kermit Weeks (the owner) and he said of all the planes in his collection that are flyable, the only one that really scares/concerns him is the B26. He indicated that is just no margin for error when landing in that aircraft.

Polyperhon
07-02-2007, 04:40 AM
Sorry zugfuhrer but I don't think we agree at all. I believe that the modelling in the game is accurate and there is no argument strong enough that can make me think otherwise.Its sleek fuselage and the smart positioning of its radiators make it extremely aerodynamic, the design of the tail surfaces is simple but well-sorted as is good the design of its ailerons and its wing in general. There is no reasoning behind the idea that the P-39 was worse in reality than in the sim.Actually if you look at the IL compare, it's possible that they got wrong the engine performance in the P-39N,Q and didn't bother to change it after that. You can see that the P-400 and P-39D-1/2 follow the same curves of performance, even if we read that the later models were tuned for higher alt. If you look at the P-40E/P-40M chart,you see that a performance gap is very obvious between them in higher alt. So it's fair enough to believe that the P-39N/Q models are actually worse in the sim that were in reality.
So why is depicted as bad? Young US pilots with no combat experience were thrown into battle in a warplane really different that the ones that were used in training.No 2-seat version was available to make them familiar with this plane peculiarities. Hot climate made the small radiators to boil and overstreched missions made pilots stressed if they had enough fuel to return back. UK pilots after being used to the almost fool-proof Spit they could never feel comfortable with it (everybody knows that the Spit was the sweeter of all warbirds,together with Yaks).
US didn't want to aknowledge that soviet pilots did better than american pilots. USSR didn't want to accept that a non-soviet plane could considered better than local designs.So nobody wanted to praise the P-39.It's as simple as that.

(by the way, RAF's P-400 didn't have the M4 cannon, so how a cannon that was not fitted could jam?)

jimDG
07-02-2007, 06:59 AM
P-39 was liked because it had everything that the bf109 had, and early Soviet planes didn't:
nose cannon, radio, good dive limit.

Aaron_GT
07-02-2007, 07:44 AM
" The RAF pilots hated the Airacobra mainly because of its now poor performance over 20,000 ft and a tendency to spin, with a marked difficulty to recover from a spin. Also they complained that the M4 cannon had a tendency to jam, but they did concede it was an effective fighter below 15,000 feet. They eventually returned the aircraft back to USAAC who used them in the early days of the Pacific war, in places like Guadalcanal."

The RAF received the P-400 export version with the 20mm cannon. One of the main complaints against the 37mm cannon was the build up of exhaust gas from it in the cockpit and the fact that with the car door canopy you couldn't easily vent it.

mynameisroland
07-02-2007, 08:21 AM
RAF pilots didnt like flying the Bf 109 after flying their Spitty fires.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif The slats made scary noises

Jaws2002
07-02-2007, 08:25 AM
Originally posted by carts:
Some pilots of I.and II./JG54 when on conversion to the Fw190 from the Bf 109 described the 190 as "Landing like a wet sack" and as "A wardrobe"
One pilot also noted,that when taking off,the 190 looked like "a Bullfrog on water Skis'" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


The "Bullfrog on water skis" remark was a rather good call. It praised the capability of the 190 to take off from the muddy unprepared runways on the eastern front.



"The width of the undercarriage track also proved a distinct boon to
Eastern Front flyers. Where the Bf 109 skittered perilously, the Fw 190
ploughed its way splay-legged and tail-down through the worst surfaces
the Soviet winter could throw at it - snow, slush, rain or mud - 'like a
bullfrog on water skis.'"


"One word of warning was sounded, however. If, for any reason, the
Focke-Wulf s engine did stop, the advice was to get out - quickly. Powerless,
the Fw 190 had 'the glide characteristics of a brick. As soon as the
engine faltered, the nose pointed earthwards, followed by the rest of the
airframe in close formation". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

Bremspropeller
07-02-2007, 03:58 PM
Ki-44 didn't like it's turning-performance.

They grew to appreciate it's climb and dive, however.