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View Full Version : THIS SIM IS NOT THAT GREAT HERE IS WHY!!!



fordfan25
04-09-2006, 03:46 PM
No Jet wash moddled. WTF. how can i recreat the goose disaster useing p-80 and ME262 with out the jet wash effect moddled? WTF oleg lets get with the program man. i did not pay all my shinies for a game so lacking in such a key feature. this is BS. i DEMAND for it to be add in a patch. .....also the 30mm is porked

slipBall
04-09-2006, 04:10 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gifI don't know if "demand" is the best word choice http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Megile_
04-09-2006, 04:18 PM
What's your problem kazanski?

http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/9205/101025985ni.jpg

ploughman
04-09-2006, 04:30 PM
I think wash, prop or otherwise, will be modelled in BoB (single neuron fired this information at me, might be defective.) So no jets, but at least you'll have some blowback to wash in.

Summit17
04-09-2006, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by Megile_:
What's your problem kazanski?

http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/9205/101025985ni.jpg

LMFAO yes. owned.

FritzGryphon
04-09-2006, 04:49 PM
I heard too wake turbulence will be be modeled in BoB.

Oleg at one point commented on how unrealistically wake turbulence, and turbulence in general, is modeled in other games, and that the model in BoB will more closely replicate the behaviour of the real thing.

This does not mean propwash or jetwash which, for the purposes of following an aircraft from any distance, are insignificant effects.

appulluk
04-09-2006, 05:10 PM
I thought prop wash was (at least visually) featured in Pacific Fighters, I read? Thus, I'd expect it to be across the gamut of sims in the Complete Edition DVD, yeah?

AKA_TAGERT
04-09-2006, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by fordfan25:
No Jet wash moddled. WTF. how can i recreat the goose disaster useing p-80 and ME262 with out the jet wash effect moddled? WTF oleg lets get with the program man. i did not pay all my shinies for a game so lacking in such a key feature. this is BS. i DEMAND for it to be add in a patch. .....also the 30mm is porked Now how in the heck did Stigler manage to get a hold of fordfans log in?

Megile_
04-09-2006, 06:06 PM
fordfans password is 1,2,3,4,5

badaboom.1
04-09-2006, 06:14 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v27/badaboom/tcm.jpg


" Do you even know what jet wash is Matt?.....Well I know Matt.....I KNOW!!!!!!!"

LStarosta
04-09-2006, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by fordfan25:
No Jet wash moddled. WTF. how can i recreat the goose disaster useing p-80 and ME262 with out the jet wash effect moddled? WTF oleg lets get with the program man. i did not pay all my shinies for a game so lacking in such a key feature. this is BS. i DEMAND for it to be add in a patch. .....also the 30mm is porked

I take it you watched Top Gun on TV today too...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Jatro13th
04-09-2006, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by appulluk:
I thought prop wash was (at least visually) featured in Pacific Fighters, I read? Thus, I'd expect it to be across the gamut of sims in the Complete Edition DVD, yeah?

How is it possible to see the prop wash?

I DEMAND a chocolate ice cream!!!!! Oleg, I DEMAND that you get me one NOW!!!!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

FritzGryphon
04-09-2006, 07:32 PM
I thought prop wash was (at least visually) featured in Pacific Fighters

Prop wash is modeled in PF insofar as affecting your own airplane. In the form of low speed control effectiveness, and the low speed slip effect (commonly mislabeled as 'torque), for example.

But it doesn't affect other aircraft in any way.

Gibbage1
04-09-2006, 07:37 PM
Heh. I know your all being sarcastic, but any of you realize that radiator damage was never modeled?

Think of that for a little. Let it simmer. The game was made to simulate a liquid cooled aircraft, and all other systems are in the DM including the oil cooler, but not the radiator.

AKA_TAGERT
04-09-2006, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Heh. I know your all being sarcastic, but any of you realize that radiator damage was never modeled?

Think of that for a little. Let it simmer. The game was made to simulate a liquid cooled aircraft, and all other systems are in the DM including the oil cooler, but not the radiator. COOL
Pun intended

jermin122
04-09-2006, 08:20 PM
LOL. You guys want too much from bob. Hope Oleg won't disappoint us.

BuzzardHead
04-09-2006, 08:28 PM
I think this "hogwash" is modeled in correctly.

BfHeFwMe
04-09-2006, 10:21 PM
You got that right, get behind an La-7 and you'll be wallowing in hogwash in no time flat. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Monson74
04-10-2006, 12:45 AM
Goose was a n00b!

WOLFMondo
04-10-2006, 02:59 AM
Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Heh. I know your all being sarcastic, but any of you realize that radiator damage was never modeled?

Think of that for a little. Let it simmer. The game was made to simulate a liquid cooled aircraft, and all other systems are in the DM including the oil cooler, but not the radiator.

You 100% sure that no radiator damage was ever modelled?

appulluk
04-10-2006, 04:11 AM
I see, I know what you mean but I also meant the waves from the prop on water.


Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I thought prop wash was (at least visually) featured in Pacific Fighters

Prop wash is modeled in PF insofar as affecting your own airplane. In the form of low speed control effectiveness, and the low speed slip effect (commonly mislabeled as 'torque), for example.

But it doesn't affect other aircraft in any way. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jatro13th
04-10-2006, 04:47 AM
Ah I see what you mean. Yeah you can see it both over land and water, but that's as far as it will get. You won't feel wake turbulence, or prop wash from another aircraft if you're behind it in this game... I think that BoB will incorporate these things though... Patience...

Chuck_Older
04-10-2006, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by fordfan25:
No Jet wash moddled. WTF. how can i recreat the goose disaster useing p-80 and ME262 with out the jet wash effect moddled? WTF oleg lets get with the program man. i did not pay all my shinies for a game so lacking in such a key feature. this is BS. i DEMAND for it to be add in a patch. .....also the 30mm is porked

Really hard to replicate Goose's untimely end without the F-14, too

AFJ_Locust
04-10-2006, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
Oleg at one point commented on how unrealistically wake turbulence, and turbulence in general, is modeled in other games, and that the model in BoB will more closely replicate the behaviour of the real thing.


Ya,Im sure he did, Oleg is alwayes on about how realistic he can make things, Fact is hes been saying that since Il2 that Il2,AEP,Aces,PF and every single patch that its the most realistic while there have been major changes within each release/patch, some not for the best or spare me REALISTIC.

I know he means well http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

LEBillfish
04-10-2006, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fordfan25:
No Jet wash moddled. WTF. how can i recreat the goose disaster useing p-80 and ME262 with out the jet wash effect moddled? WTF oleg lets get with the program man. i did not pay all my shinies for a game so lacking in such a key feature. this is BS. i DEMAND for it to be add in a patch. .....also the 30mm is porked Now how in the heck did Stigler manage to get a hold of fordfans log in? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Papa_K
04-10-2006, 11:00 AM
Keep in mind that most of what you saw in "Top Gun" was pure Hollywood horse-hockey.

Jetwash awareness is something that is taught. Sliding through another fighter's jetwash can be described as a quick bump. If under high G, it's advisable to ease up on the stick - the jetwash can give a couple additional instant G's. Purposely staying in another fighter's jetwash is uncalled for - turbulence - more as range decreases.

It's not flying "into the danger zone" to encounter a fighter's jetwash - no instant flat spin, no dead Goose. That scene was right up there with all the cooperative close formation flying during "dogfight sequences" to keep all aircraft action in the shot.

Wake turbulence and jetwash from heavies can be a problem, especially with inadequate spacing, or when unaware. Not just jetwash, but wingtip vortices as well. Landing behind a heavy it's advisable to stay a bit above his glide path - especially if inside separation minimums. (It's even more of a danger to light aircraft.)

(Something I'd like to see: The propwash effect on a trailing aircraft, or its effect on the airmass itself, isn't as constant or as big a factor to all players, as something else we're missing - wind.)

So... just pop your speedbrakes and let him slide right by... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

____________________________________________
Is PF's FM realistic? No. Better wording: PF's FM is more realistic than ____________ (fill in the blank with some other game title).

Papa_K

fordfan25
04-10-2006, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by Megile_:
fordfans password is 1,2,3,4,5 o great now im going to have to change the lock combo on my lugauge

fordfan25
04-10-2006, 12:11 PM
...wow not a bad haul this trip but iv seen better. hmmm maby this will help. the view in the FW is just BS. complete bias lol. i need to make a new account for these fishing trip's you guys know me to well now. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Megile_
04-10-2006, 12:29 PM
Silly bunny rabbit

os5vd4si2fsijd1
04-10-2006, 12:51 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

badaboom.1
04-10-2006, 05:59 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1241.gif This naughty boy has been keep'in you busy,ah Tully? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

mortoma
04-10-2006, 07:32 PM
What about wingtip vortices?? They are different from prop wash and jet wash. Mostly vortices are more pronounced from larger aircraft such as transports or bombers. And are more pronounced when they are moving at slower speeds, such as when in preparations for landing/approach. Anyone know if Oleg will model vortices???

MarkGos
04-10-2006, 09:24 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Papa_K:


It's not flying "<span class="ev_code_RED">into the danger zone</span>" to encounter a fighter's jetwash - no instant flat spin, no dead Goose.

Oh great. Now I have that stupid song in my head. Thanks a million Pap_K http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Highway to the Danger Zone - Ahhhhhhh the humanity!!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

WTE_Galway
04-10-2006, 11:06 PM
Of course Mark Hanna, whose first hand reports on 109 performance are often quoted in these forums as evidence about FM's, was killed in a takeoff incident in a "Buchon" 109 in spain in 1999 involving jetwash from a departing civilian aircraft.

ploughman
04-11-2006, 06:54 AM
A British TV program called Top Gear conducted the definitive work on jet wash using a Boeing 747, a Ford Mondeo, and a Citroen 2CV. The results of the jet wash tests are a standard resource for the aviation industry and works such as "Why you should never try to take off from public highways," and "Taxiing home, why not to do it" are based on this ground breaking research.

For more information please click on this link.

THIS LINK (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/47116/747_jet_blast)

R988z
04-11-2006, 11:06 AM
Actually the flat spin the F-14 goes into is actually probably one of the more correct details in that movie (perhaps the only correct detail). Early F-14As had dodgy engines (TF30 from F-111) that were prone to compressor stalls if they encountered turbulent air and were known to go into flat spins before the engine could relight. This was pretty much fixed with the upgraded F-14B onwards which had F110 engines similar to the F-15. they lost quite a few tomcats to to unrecoverable spins.

Papa_K
04-11-2006, 01:49 PM
Compressor stalls can occur during rapid maneuvers, high AOA, where there's interrupted airflow at the intake, accompanied by quick throttle movements. Following a compressor stall, the engine is often still running, at reduced thrust, high exhaust gas temps, with rpm hang up. Best way to clear it is to shut the engine down and restart it. As a compressor stall occurs, you can often hear a loud bang or bump, and can even get a large flame shooting out front and back of the engine (impressive), and the engine(s) can even shut itself down. (It gets real quiet with no engine(s) running.) Again, restarting the engine is the answer, while maintaining aircraft control. Knowing that your aircraft engines are prone to compressor stalls, you avoid rapid throttle movements during high AOA maneuvers.

The F-14A TF-30 engine was succeptible to compressor stalls, and as this occurred at high AOA, low airspeed, it could and did lead to some out-of-control situations (30-some Class A mishaps, with several fatalities, traced back to TF-30 engine-related causes, including compressor stalls). That engine was also known to have had a number of compressor stalls leading to engine failure.

________________________________________

A plausible scenario is that the F-14 entered jetwash at high AOA, leading to a loss of aircraft control situation. (Not the way it was shown, but let's go with the possibility.) The pilot moved the throttles violently during this high AOA situation, leading to dual compressor stalls to engine flameouts, and two complete engine failures. The pilot was unable regain aircraft control, and the aircraft entered an unrecoverable flat spin. The crew attempted ejection at 7,000 ft (below the 10,000 ft recommended altitude in out-of-control situations), and experienced partial canopy separation failure during the ejection sequence.

The film makers presented jetwash as a quick-and-easy cause to produce a dramatic dead Goose.

________________________________________

Didn't mean to go on about this... but Hollywood can take real facts (or partial facts), and combine them to give people a false impression.

Papa_K

ploughman
04-11-2006, 02:07 PM
Didn't mean to go on about this... but Hollywood can take real facts (or partial facts), and combine them to give people a false impression.

Wow! Thanks for the heads up. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Monty_Thrud
04-11-2006, 02:16 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Papa_K
04-11-2006, 02:17 PM
Quote from Ploughman: "<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Wow! Thanks for the heads up. </span>"
_____________________________________

Your welcome... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

(Don't know why I felt it was my duty to state the obvious... goes well with beer and nuts though.)

And, as R988z said, since there is some fact behind the fiction, the dead-Goose-jetwash scene may be the most realistic detail in the movie... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
____________________________________

Back on the jetwash/jetblast note: Knowing where your butt is aimed on the ground is always a concern. Maintenance and arming area personnel have been sent flying, and various pieces of ground equipment moved or knocked over... the worst incident I'd seen was someone dropping off his drag chute (in an F-4), not aware of the crew that was already there to collect the previous chutes. There's a designated chute drop area, you spin your butt to it, a quick blip of the throttle, and hit the release. Well this time one poor guy ended up getting hit with the chute's metal hardware, breaking his ribs, and sending him flying from the jetblast... from close range... he wasn't burned, but he did report feeling a good amount of heat... he lived, but he wasn't happy - neither was the pilot when he got back to the squadron.
_________________________________

Torture Effect ON:

Revvin' up your engine
Listen to her howlin' roar
Metal under tension
Beggin' you to touch and go

Highway to the Danger Zone
Ride into the Danger Zone

Headin' into twilight
Spreadin' out her wings tonite
She got you jumpin' off the deck
And shovin' into overdrive

Highway to the Danger Zone
I'll take you
Right into the Danger Zone

You'll never say hello to you
Untill you get it on the red line overload
You'll never know what you can do
Untill you get it up as high as you can go

Out along the edges
Always where I burn to be
The further on the edge
The hotter the intensity

Highway to the Danger Zone
Gonna take you
Right into the Danger Zone

Highway to the Danger Zone

fordfan25
04-12-2006, 11:07 AM
lol i got the song burned on CD. i pulled up to a mustang the other day and put it on. the girl driveing the stang thought it was funny as He**. PS i won the race http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

sabotshooter88
04-12-2006, 12:03 PM
For those with a great desire to view to see Tom and Val together again......

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2643835654848098127&q=trailer

MOH_MADMAN
04-12-2006, 12:45 PM
what the hell is going on?
birds are not modeled in here at all either, nor then is thier destructive capability. A plane went down last week 'cause he ran into a Goose, but i dont see any geese in this sim, all that time and money, shoulda bought me a gold tooth....

MAD

fordfan25
04-12-2006, 12:52 PM
yea i know. We have all these fanstasy plane's and no birds WTF 1c. i cant beleave iv played this game for some odd 3 years. what a waist of time.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

ploughman
04-12-2006, 02:50 PM
No birds, but UFOs ag0g01111.

ChutzR4girlz