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View Full Version : Korea: A fever induced dream, or...?



SpartanHoplite
01-11-2006, 06:51 PM
I seem to recall somewhere in the back of my mind (a dark and dusty place, let me assure you), some discussions awhile back about a Korea Expansion being done for FB/AEP/PF by some third party?

Is that (or was that) the case, or is it just the above noted fever induced dream?

'Cause, that'd be AWESOME. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SH

SkyChimp
01-11-2006, 07:23 PM
I hope for a seperate Korean War sim, not an add-on. I don't think a Korea add-on will ever happen. And as much as I love that Oleg, I'd hate to have a sim where the MiG-15 is a UFO and the F-86 can't get off the ground.

Enforcer572005
01-11-2006, 07:32 PM
I wish.....this sim lends itself rather well to jets I think. Most of the vehicles etc are already here, just need a few jets and a map with part of japan and korea in it. I dont think there will be anything like this in this sim. It would hvae to be a third party project i believe.

LEXX_Luthor
01-11-2006, 08:25 PM
Don't fool yourself Enforcer, this sim -- the terrain engine -- is the worst possible for high altitude air warfare. You know this, you know why, along with everybody at this webboard. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

You can't sell a Korea sim, not by itself. You have to design Korea as a profitable Addon Pac to a larger 1950-1970 international combat jet sim.

Enforcer572005
01-11-2006, 08:40 PM
well youre probably right, but i was just thinking of the cmpn "shooting stars" with the jet action in it, mostly at low alt though. I think it has the potentil for being a good one for korea wiht a small number of tweaks.

I agree that it would probalby need to be an adon to amore modern sim, like maybe lomac. How tough would that be i wonder. I tried to get into "mig alley", but maybe I didnt fly it long enough...had some major glaring flaws, like F-86Fs having elevators, and that goofy AC position indicator, and a lack of an actual misn blder where you could start from scratch.

I was kinda thinking an adon for a jet sim for the 65 and 71 india/pakistan wars, as well as for mideast wars in that time, would be pretty interesting. Is there another jet sim around other than lomac these days? I also think we will never have a korea carrier sim either-too much of an afterthought i guess. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

LEXX_Luthor
01-11-2006, 09:32 PM
Enforcer::
I agree that it would probalby need to be an adon to amore modern sim, like maybe lomac.
I think LOMAC was too modern, and the Devs had no absolutely NO interest in going back in time to far more interesting jet air and air-ground operations.

StrikeFighters and Wings Over Vietnam has all you mention and far more (korea, carriers, etc...), although the Indo/Pak campaign is still in development. But if you go there, get with me on how to astronomically pump up the sim because the default grafix settings and control settings are very conservative -- far too much so. Goto the office supply stores and find SF in the bargain bin for 5 or 10 dollars. WoV you may still be able to find at CompUSA as its a more recent addon. Be careful of ebay as the original pre-releace or (needless to say) "WalMart Version" of SF is not patchable at all.

Some stuff I am modding over the SF...needless to say, its an extremely open sim...

~ http://bbs.thirdwire.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=2092&start=16

Badsight.
01-11-2006, 09:49 PM
i dont trust MG to make a Korean airwar simulator

maybe with the next gen engine they are making for BoB , but not on what FB has been like

womenfly
01-12-2006, 06:09 AM
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000302P8.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Mig Alley (http://liberatedgames.org/game.php?game_id=48)

Deedsundone
01-12-2006, 07:04 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

R988z
01-12-2006, 08:51 AM
There is a free Korea pack for CFS3 similar to the WW1 Fields over Flanders, I've got it, but haven't actually bothered to play it much, does have a lot of the aircraft though.

Lucius_Esox
01-12-2006, 09:11 AM
Korea you say,,, F4AF for a modern version, no F86's though I'm afraid

Enforcer572005
01-12-2006, 10:44 PM
I wasnt at all familiar wiht strike fighters....didnt know it was that expandable.I used to really enjoy the EA navy fihgters/nato fighters/fighters anthology sims....really advanced in their day. I made my own version of load outs i htought were far more realistic. But that was a great set of sims, and had a fantastic misn blder.

Gotta find this somewehre, though I dunno when id fly it. Ive got EAs USAF and IAF, but they seem to be very unfinished.

I wasnt aware of korea ops being availible anywhere ohter than cfs2.....and you gotta do so many user made fixes to fly that thing.

There was also a good user made adon called sabre V mig for CFS2, but the sim just wasnt able to deal wiht jets too well for some reason.
Lots of good material in the jet age for combat sims, but htey need to be user modable and have a good misn blder to be whats needed.

LEXX_Luthor
01-13-2006, 04:19 AM
Its far more deep than it appears. For example, out of the box (Wings Over Vietnam), you can't look out the right side window of the A6 cockpit, but a single number change in the A6Acockpit.ini, a view angle, changes this. Like I said, if you happen to get it, get with me about the environment and control settings file -- out of box the settings are horribly conservative and in fact, my new cirrus clouds won't even work without a change in the default FarClip distance settings.

Active SF/WoV board ~> http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=145

teh simhq also has a forum for FB/PF, and all military type simulations (ground, sea, air).

Publisher's SF/WoV webboard ~> http://bbs.thirdwire.com/phpBB/

We have a most successful 3rd Party Mission Editor. Here I test inside the editor a larger Celebes map I made (made with publisher's Terrain Editor).

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/50a976d2.jpg

Ya, it takes alot of work to bulk out the sim, but its getting more standardized over time, and more hidden features are being found. Best, its still (slowly) under publisher development as we post.

carguy_
01-13-2006, 04:59 AM
First of all,ask who is interested in Korea sim?

Surely not me,there`s no German stuff there.

And as much as I was hoping to make the Ki61 my plane of second choice,the PTO is pretty much dead in the game http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

SpartanHoplite
01-13-2006, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by carguy_:
First of all,ask who is interested in Korea sim?

Surely not me,there`s no German stuff there.

And as much as I was hoping to make the Ki61 my plane of second choice,the PTO is pretty much dead in the game http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

Okay... Who is interested in a Korea sim, then? I am!

Besides, the West and East German airforces flew F-86s and MiG-15s, respectively... so there are 2 germans planes for you. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Still, I'm not campaigning for it (although I would love it). I was checking whether my memory on the issue is correct - was there some (seemingly) serious talk awhile back on a possibel Korea expansion/sim/whatever?

SH

faustnik
01-13-2006, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by carguy_:
First of all,ask who is interested in Korea sim?




Uh, sign me up! I'm interested.

You can fly Mig-15s Carguy. The rumor is that East Germans flew for the Reds in Korea. I'll take one F-86 please. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

carguy_
01-13-2006, 04:46 PM
I don`t fly migs.

I burn them. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

LEXX_Luthor
01-13-2006, 04:59 PM
Real Americans love to fly MiGs

Private MiGs ~> http://aeroweb.lucia.it/~agretch/Features/PrivateMiGs.html

http://aeroweb.lucia.it/~agretch/Features/PrivateMiGs2.jpg

p1ngu666
01-13-2006, 05:11 PM
target market : americans who wanna fly hero planes and shoot down those evil commie's

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

jds1978
01-13-2006, 05:42 PM
MMMM... F86 Sabre (drools)

SkyChimp
01-13-2006, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
target market : americans who wanna fly hero planes and shoot down those evil commie's

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

That's right. But don't forget, the Brit Navy managed to get a couple of hero planes to Korea - the Sea Fury and the Seafire. But the RAF didn't have any hero planes to send.

Bremspropeller
01-14-2006, 04:10 AM
Hmm, Korea'd be sorta hard:

gotta choose which german design I had to fly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif


*duck'n cover*

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

SpartanHoplite
01-14-2006, 05:59 AM
Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
Hmm, Korea'd be sorta hard:

gotta choose which german design I had to fly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif


*duck'n cover*

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif... I suppose there is a lot of truth in that statement. More the MiG-15 than the F-86, as far as I am aware, but still...

SH

SkyChimp
01-14-2006, 07:04 AM
I was unaware the Germans fought in Korea. Incidentally, The Russians flew a plane that superficially resembled a completely unviable plane designed, but never built, by the Germans. And the F-86 borrowed some Me-262 wing technology. But otherwise, the skies over Korea seems to have been devoid of German planes. Just as well, only good planes survived in Korean skies. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Bremspropeller
01-14-2006, 07:08 AM
I knew I'd get SkyChimp that way http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif


Nuff said. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

SkyChimp
01-14-2006, 07:48 AM
Although, there was that time F-86s tangled with commie Ta-152s.

Bremspropeller
01-14-2006, 07:57 AM
You must be wrong: my source says the commies flew Lilienthal's "jet glider X2000+1"

Enforcer572005
01-14-2006, 05:29 PM
Hey Lexx Luthor (wanna buy some kryptonite? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

i went to a site that listed teh different versions, and there seem to be alot of them. Which one should i look for that is the most expandable....i noticed an F-105 and an F-86 at one site, but not all versions seem to have the same adons listed for availibility. circuit citys website claims its availible for 6 bucks, but im not sure which version (gotta go back and look). I sure dont want the walmart version.

It seemed that some of the web sites i went to had been abandoned since 2003. Ill go back and explore the ones you provided a bit more. This is fascinating.

The indo pakistan scenario would be great....one of the most interesting sets of air wars.

LEXX_Luthor
01-14-2006, 05:43 PM
~~> Circuit City

I think this is a good way to tell -- make sure it says Strategy First on the label. I am NOT sure about this. Czech out the simhq or Thirdwire boards to Be Sure(tm).

What I DO KNOW -- after you start the sim, the version number is on the lower right of the computer screen. Then talk to me. This will confirm if your C.C. purchase is a good one -- I would tend to think it is good, since I found my SF inside the local Staples office supply store. If you later don't find me here, sign up at teh sinhq or Thirdwire boards. The links were posted earlier in this thread.

You could look around town at the office supply stores.

zugfuhrer
01-14-2006, 05:46 PM
It would be nice to se how russian programming team would setup the Mig-15.

In other games, Mig-alley? it was not so good.

LEXX_Luthor
01-14-2006, 05:57 PM
Oh, Enforcer, if you get the StrikeFighters, get Wings Over Vietnam too ... you will NOT regret getting both sims. Trust me on this. Think of something similar to FB+PF but not exactly, but kinda similar. The SF and WoV don't Merge, but they do Mix.

Enforcer572005
01-15-2006, 09:14 PM
Ok, cool, thanks oh evil arch enemy of Superman....Im gonna try to ride my little motorized bicycle out to the 2 office supply stores which are on completely opposite sides of town from me, then check Circuit city. I know i saw the vietnam sim there a month ago when i was there very cheap also, but didnt realize....it looked pretty good though.

Im so busy wiht my IL3 projects that i dunno when id fly it, but i kinda miss doing the jet thing, and ive seen some interesting cmpns that look fascinating. I saw an F-86 thst looked really good. Gotta figure a way to stop wasting time sleeping.

Ill get back to ya....thanks Lex.....

And the mig-15 would be prett interesting from 1C....i wonder if they would take the Lagg-3 approach. Maybe some1 will take that up, like that outfit is doing with the ww1 sim....but i wouldnt hold my breath.
All that info from the Soviet pilots who flew there would make a good Rusn cmpn for sure, if maybe and optomistic one. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

In Mig alley, i jsut couldnt deal wiht the N. Korean pilots talking English slang in the exact same voices...."Somebody's shootin at us!" gimme a break. At least in EA's navy fihgters 97 they had the N.Vietnames AF guys talking in Vietnamese...sounded cool. was pretty immersive. I also ddint like havng to start in the P51....i wanted to fly jets.

darkhorizon11
01-15-2006, 09:28 PM
wait till BoB maybe we'll someday get a Korea addon for that baby...

by then most of the AI and terrain bugs with hopefully be fixed with upgraded graphics, I think it will be worth the wait

SpartanHoplite
01-16-2006, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by darkhorizon11:
wait till BoB maybe we'll someday get a Korea addon for that baby...

by then most of the AI and terrain bugs with hopefully be fixed with upgraded graphics, I think it will be worth the wait

In 3 or 4 years, best case? Man, it had better be good for that kind of wait! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SH

Enforcer572005
01-16-2006, 06:20 PM
Hey Lexx....I got it at staples today (10 bucks) and it says its a valuesoft product, but the folder its in is "strategy plus". I dont see a version in the start up screen, but in the read me it says its v12-25-03. Can you point me in the right direction from that point and advise me if there is a proper patching sequence. You can do so in PM if you like. thanks.......(i still dunno when i can fly this, but it looks cool-I even saw on the boards that old Wrench is involved wiht this...from tHe EA fighters anthology days a decade ago). I assume there are some corrections i need to make to some files as well.

and yes, it does look like it will be some years before 1C has time to do Korea, which would seem to be a natural for a Rusn software team, but i realize they need to go for demand and the most sales.

SpartanHoplite
01-16-2006, 07:34 PM
and yes, it does look like it will be some years before 1C has time to do Korea, which would seem to be a natural for a Rusn software team, but i realize they need to go for demand and the most sales.

Yeah, it does seem natural, doesn't it? And I thought that a very significant proportion of the sales that made IL2 successful were from the Russian market?

Leads me to my sneaking suspicion that this BoB project is linked (maybe directly) to that BoB movie that is supposed to be coming out sometime in the future?

Ah, well... that it neither here nor there. I'll just keep my fingers crossed for something Korea-related.

SH

LEXX_Luthor
01-16-2006, 10:59 PM
Enforcer::
v12-25-03
You got it. You will need three (3) Patches...

~> http://www.thirdwire.com/projects/p1/rt_patch.htm

Install in this order...

Service Pack 3 (a patch)
Patch 3.1
Patch 3.2

On the very bottom right corner of your computer screen, you should be seeing v12-25-03. This updates to new values (dates) with each Patch applied.

Two official addons here ~> http://www.thirdwire.com/projects/p1/rt_downloads.htm

There is much to do, so register at the simhq or ThirdWire boards. Simhq is by far the more active. First thing to do...make a backup copy folder ... copy and paste the SF folder and call it...C:\SF for example. Something simple. That will be the one you Patch up and mod up, and keep the original install as backup with Patches.

I can post my VIEWLIST and ENVIRONMENT files for you to copy and paste into Flight folder, among many other things.

LEXX_Luthor
01-16-2006, 11:24 PM
3rd Party FB-111 cockpit (covers several -111 versions) ... I blacked out the blank mirror bmp files since the white blank mirrors kill night vision, and I usually fly with mirrors OFF for fps reasons -- I was forced to retreat behind my ATI-9200 when my -9800 went Down.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/c31e30d0.jpg


3rd Party B-47s (no cockpit yet so we must use other pits).

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/6487029d.jpg

The fantastic (...I think http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) evening sky colours picutured here are mine, and are made in the environment text file. The cirrocumulus clouds are mine (and they are "real" inside the sim world -- in this case, hovering at 32,000 feet altitude) but I have not posted them for download as they are still pure "beta" right now.

You will also need to register (if I recall) to download stuff from CombatAce. ~

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?dlcategory=2


Especially the CAT file extractor, Mission Editor (3rd Party), campaigns and terrains, aircraft, grafix effects stuff like that.

Good thread - update on Su-15 cockpit~> http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb....topic;f=145;t=001272 (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=145;t=001272)

Enforcer572005
01-16-2006, 11:32 PM
Yes LL...thanx. If you can post those, it would help. Do you want to do that in PM? I kinda feel like im hijacking the guys thread here, but Im a larcenous kinda hood type evil guy anyway, and we evil type guys have to stick together http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif.

Anyhoot, i have been looking thru the manual, and it reminds me alot of the old EA fighters anthology sims. Im in the process of upgrading to DSL so i should be able to actually dnload stuff bigger than a breadbox now.

Im salivating to try out the Korea cmpns i saw at some point....those sabres and migs bring back old memories (of ohter sims, not combat-im not THAT old).

And you would think that a korea adon (adjusted for proper performance at altitude-sheeesh) would be popular in Russia, with the massive amount of participation it turns out they had. Strange that the western powers would want to minimize that over the yrs and try to keep that an open secret. LIke in the movie "the hunters"....the **** shooter was a N.Korean pilot, when in reality he would have been soviet. They knew good and well that the successful pilots were not N korean or chinese, since they heard them on the radios, yet this was so dnplayed. Just anohter reason korea would be a worthy and interesting subj. World politics is so strange in its historical context......

Enforcer572005
01-16-2006, 11:39 PM
OH WOW!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

A B-47!!!??? wooo hooo....i gotta get this stuff....and you can fly the SU-15 Flaggon? Man, Im salivating. Alot of my dad's students went on to fly B-47s in the late 50s (T-28,T-37 instructor). Now i just gotta re-arrange the time space continuum to make time to do this while i build my VVS cmpn. We really ought to get paid for this stuff http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

Havent flown an F-111 since the fighters anthology when I was attacking Iranian targets and being chased by Mirages and Fulcroms....nearly a decade ago.

LEXX_Luthor
01-16-2006, 11:48 PM
Ya, we can go PM for the environment and viewlist files.

Enforcer::
I kinda feel like im hijacking the guys thread here,
Nah, there's a Korea campaign for The Guy too. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif In a way, SF is a survey of survey sims covering much greater timespan, and 3rd Parties cover WW2 to LOMAC era, but the roots lie in the 1960s. Its often called "sim lite" -- out of the box, the post stall behavior is toned down for Newbies but can be made Brutal with enough time spent (3rd Party F-106 delta wing has a gruewsome mush stall) but in some areas -- campaigns, environmental modding, map size, etc... its more "sim hard" than FB/PF. PF beats this in the raw feel of carrier simming though -- Luthier did a stunning fantastic job of bringin carrier ops to Oleg's sim, and it won't be beaten any time soon. No Way No.

You may need to get the CAT extractor -- a small exe program -- and "extract" the default ENVIRONMENT.ini file from the encrypted FlightData file since its a "configuration" text file and you may not be able to make that -- or can you do that just by appending the label ".ini" ?? If you extract the original first, then Delete all the text and replace with my text. At anytime you need, the original is safely stored in the cat file. The sim reads any replacement files first before going to the cat file.

LEXX_Luthor
01-17-2006, 12:14 AM
Enforcer::
Alot of my dad's students went on to fly B-47s in the late 50s (T-28,T-37 instructor).
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Aussum!! Here are the people you need to tell, now.

~> http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=145


Just a few days ago I realized something...out of the box, WoV offers Flyable...

F4, F8
F100
F4, A4, A6, A7, F105

Flyable bombers outnumber Flyable fighters. That is kinda different right there (although some can be used in mixed roles, including SAM suppression). With mods and MiG-21 cockpits, you can fly interception in 3rd Party NVAF campaigns (-17s and -19s have cockpits in progress so they use other planes' cockpits).

Please get with the simhq board for more information about certain types of stuff. I have been focusing mainly on environment modding for strategic air war purposes -- long range, high altitude. Most of the fellas/fellattes do the tactical simming, like flight simmers are supposed to. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif They have all the info on the SF/WoV 3rd Party campaigns and the mods you need and how they work.

WTE_Ibis
01-17-2006, 01:35 AM
Originally posted by SkyChimp:
I hope for a seperate Korean War sim, not an add-on. I don't think a Korea add-on will ever happen. And as much as I love that Oleg, I'd hate to have a sim where the MiG-15 is a UFO and the F-86 can't get off the ground.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I thought that that was how it was.
Well I think they could get off the ground but they had difficulty climbing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Seriously the Mig15 was a good plane with gun probs and poor pilot training.
As far as I am aware the Mig had it all over the F86 until the Mach .9 slat was introduced.

.

LEXX_Luthor
01-17-2006, 01:40 AM
Night ops would be sweet, they used F-94s and NAVY used F3Ds and they kept MiGs away from B-29s when F-86s couldn't protect them in the daytime. I think the basic idea was that MiGs flown visually at night against B-29s were more vulnerable to escorting US night fighters with radar. I don't really know how to explain it on a "daytime" dogfight webboard. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

LEXX_Luthor
01-17-2006, 11:55 AM
uh-oh ... Enforcer572005, are you "okay" ?? I made a PM, I hope I did it right (my first time doing that)

Also, here ~> http://bbs.thirdwire.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=2184


WTE::

SkyChimp:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I hope for a seperate Korean War sim, not an add-on. I don't think a Korea add-on will ever happen. And as much as I love that Oleg, I'd hate to have a sim where the MiG-15 is a UFO and the F-86 can't get off the ground. I thought that that was how it was. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Well I think they could get off the ground but they had difficulty climbing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Chimp was (choke) wrong about P-51 radiators, so we can let this one go. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

MiGs (15 , 17) could outclimb F-86s and had better performance in the thin and <span class="ev_code_yellow">cold</span> air at high altitude, but this advantage came back to BITE when a small US NAVY team secretly armed Formosan F-86s with Sidewinder missiles. The Sidewinders, even as "early" or "primitive" heat seeking dogfight missiles proved wonderfully reliable and effective in the cold thin air at the high altitudes where the MiG-17s liked to fight. With the Sidewinder, the F-86s ruled the high altitudes in addition to the low altitudes. Others can better explain it...

ACIG::

:
:
Turkey-Shoot on 24 September

The air battle on 24 September actually signalized the end of the contest in the air, then €" with their fighters having an advantage in high-altitude performance, but acting as perfect targets for CNAF Sidewinder-armed Sabres when flying that high and in a straight line, and also being at a considerable disadvantage when attempting to manoeuvre against the Sabre at a lower level €" the Chinese pilots subsequently became much more careful when engaging in air combats. They could not know if all or only some of Nationalist F-86s were armed with AIM-9Bs and consequently had to expect a sudden attack from any of them. Furthermore the PLAAF could not know the performance of the AIM-9B at lower levels: it only knew that the missile functioned perfectly at high altitudes, where no aircraft could not manoeuvre very hard because of the rare air.

Besides, at a lower altitude the inexperienced PLAAF and PLANAF pilots were no match for intensively trained CNAF F-86-pilots, even most junior of which had at least 1.000 hours on the type. In fact, even the pilots of the VMF-323 had to admit in embarrassment that their FJ4 Furies €" although faster and able to fly higher €" could not turn with Nationalist Sabres, especially not bellow the levels of 25.000ft.


Final Engagement

The final air battle of this crisis therefore occurred at low levels €" and, it is perhaps the most interesting of all, then many reports about this engagement are meanwhile available from both sides about this engagement, which occurred on 10 October 1958, around 0730hrs, over the Matsu. Even if these do not confirm each other it is at lest possible to conclude about the most probable outome.
:
:
:

~> http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_145.shtml

The famous flight simmer Legend of early heat seeking missiles performing poorly came from the widely reported Vietnam War where the air combat was at much lower altitudes than where Formosan F-86s and Chinese MiG-17s dueled. The ancient heat seekers actually worked at high altitude, and not even the MiGs could manuever well enough to dodge missiles at 30,000 feet and above. We don't hear much about this.

Enforcer572005
01-17-2006, 03:57 PM
Yeah Lexx, I got it, and thnx. I sent a reply. Been kinda busy today, was up till 0300 dnloading this stuff. Rednloading the second one as i write this. Got to sign up to those sites to get some of that stuff. Im gonna be working on my VVS project most of the night, as im determine to finnish this one misn ive worked on nearly a month now (gotta be perfect) but im gonna try out some jets tonight to.

When i get DSL in a few days, ill start grabbing up what i can find.....gotta get taht msin blder to, though when i can use it, i dunno. Gotts see how my trak ir works to. I used to have the ch programable throttel wiht my F16 stick and pedals, but im having to use usb now, and this old analog thing doesnt work now. Is best when you can program hotas with jets....gonna be a bit on that.

And man, that China scenario....Ive always wondered about that, but couldnt find much info. sounds like a good cmpn subj in itself. I know that a Mig-17 landed wiht an intact sidewinder lodged in the fuselage, and the ATOLL came along shortly after, atleast according to what ive read in the past. Im wondedring if thier F-100s ever scored any when they got them.

havent had time to get on that forum about my old mans experiences yet, but thats why im getting the DsL.

SkyChimp
01-17-2006, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:

Chimp was (choke) wrong about P-51 radiators, so we can let this one go. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



????? WTHeck?

Anyways, that ACIG essay is really interesting. It really illustrates the problem with Communist kill-credit system.

"Hun Mi, you were a lousy pilot, but a good Communist. We award you two kills. Rest in peace, Hun Mi"

LEXX_Luthor
01-18-2006, 06:06 PM
Ya, and there's more. Pakistan/India articles here

~> http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/cat_index_18.shtml

SkyChimp
01-18-2006, 07:51 PM
I've actually seen those pages. That's a good site. It's interesting just how long the F-86 stayed competetive.

Enforcer572005
01-18-2006, 10:23 PM
wow, lots of neat stuff on that site.

I found WoV today at circuit city....20 bux, but hey, i needed it, and there was onlyone. I had to motor/pedal dn the shoulder of deathrace 2006 hwy 27 to get there, but i made it. I just love driving thru broken glass from ancient wrecks on a bike...fun. Looks pretty good.

I just installed DSL, and am in hog heaven-never had sites pop up instantly. Now i can get those big aircraft and cmpns.

Hey, i can even dnload the spanish civil war cmpn, though i dont have time to fly it.

I noticed in the manual that the most modern version of the Aim-9 for the USAF was the B...maybe thye just didnt list the J, since it was prominant in 72 i think. Anyway, I cant wait to have a shot at landing an F-8 on an Essex class CV....just gotta find the time. Took me 3 hrs to get this bellsouth modem working in my older computer (for now).

LEXX_Luthor
01-19-2006, 02:02 AM
WoV has several Aim-9s, B, D, E, E2, G, H, J all I have seen in the weapon data file.


For StrikeFighters, Official ThirdWire F4J addon

~> http://www.thirdwire.com/projects/p1/rt_downloads.htm

WoV also has Aim-4s, but I think the simhq members have difficulty hitting anything with it (contact fuze needs direct hit I think). Czech out the simhq.

Enforcer572005
01-20-2006, 11:00 PM
yeah, i think htey just left them out of the list in the manual. Ive gotten all the 3rd wire stuff, and alot more in the 20 hrs i had DSL...before the so. bell modem went out on me... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif.

They sent anohter next day supposedly, but most likely not till monday. Im learing alot about this sim; amazing all the stuff. Kinda strange no SU-27 even mentioned, and i wonder if anyone made an FM for an F-14B (16000lb more thrust). im exploring.

Made my first carrier landing in WoV....took 5 tries in an F-8....the variable incidence wing actually works! was sloppy, but got down. I cant believe all this stuff. Definitely satisfies my craving for user made stuff. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

LEXX_Luthor
01-20-2006, 11:41 PM
Glad you like it.

My interest suddenly cuts off at around 1973, anything later is "done that, been there" in terms of PC jet simming. The planes all look the same -- Su27s MiG29s, F-14s, F-18s, F-15s, etc... like the new Ford pickup trucks look like Dodges -- heck, like Chevys too. And before 1970, all the jets look waaaay different, afterburner cost you alot, and the AAMs and SAMs *needed* a nucular warhead to work reliably, and all had racy fins like a classic cadillac.

btw...that Dora in your SiG, they have that too and it has a fun gun radar (F-94B too) and it works and its tricky. Its at column5's SF download spot...Get the NAVY F3D SkyNight too.

~> http://www.column5.us/aircraft.shtml

SkyChimp
01-21-2006, 09:39 AM
Lexx. I'm going to reinstall Strike Fighters. What patches do I need???? Also, I think there is a patch out to correct the F-100D FM, and one to correct the MiG-17 FM. Do you know hwere those are??

Thanks.

LEXX_Luthor
01-21-2006, 06:39 PM
There are a number of SFP1 Patches, not all of them are needed or will even work depending on what version your CD is -- the recent jewel box version I got is v12.25.03 (a date) and only needs the three most recent Patches.

Hey Chimp, tell me what version your basic install is ... it should be on the lower right corner of your screen after game startup. Also, czech the readme file. Beware of the WalMarts version, it is NOT Patchable, and was a pre-releace disaster.

You have <span class="ev_code_yellow">Strike Fighters Project 1</span> I would guess, and not SF Gold. Lots of stuff there, don't mix them.

Follow the Patch links ~> http://www.thirdwire.com/downloads.htm

Be sure to check out the 3rd Party terrains and campaigns. Korea is superb terrain, but the new Indo/Pak terrain should be the popper of them all.

Get with me about a few simple tweaks to ramp up the sim. The view control and some grafix rendering distances (horizon, LODs, etc...) are waaaay overly conservative. Ramp em up. How? We can talk.

Czech out the simhq board for FM updates. For MiG-17F fm, the community *just* this week made a major FM change, claiming sincere, serious, and possibly even severe -17F overmodelling, and the developer apparently never changed it. But for some unkown reason, they are not Whining about "developer bias"(tm). There is a Private MiG-17F flyer posting in that thread, find it.

Enforcer572005
01-21-2006, 08:00 PM
yea, I saw that thread by the guy who used to fly in airshows with his, and his description of the flt characteristics....a bit far from the stock one. I got the latest fm,but havent had the chance to fly it...still practicing ground misns.....check your pm for a question or 2.

Chimp, i think you may be amazed at the number and quality of the user made aircraft, not to mention the variety of both aircraft and cmpns. I was flying a single misn in an AiH skyraider, and it was pretty nice. Made too much smoke from the exhaust and needs more rudder authority, and the sound needs a bit of refinement, but it was very impressive. The pilots heads moving around in 2 axis is pretty cool.

I hope someone makes a cockpit for the T-37C and the O-1, as my dad had alot of time in those as an instructor when i was born/little kid.

And how do they make those screenies of the ground action? I havent found a camera function that covers that yet.....maybe i missed it. sure was some neat stuff going on in a tank battle, just couldnt get a good look at it.

I think i saw a mod for reducing the time the camera takes to get to other planes to...gotta find that again. Flew a ground support misn tonight in the A1, after i worked most of the day in my VVS project for IL2FB.....jeeese...the stuff i do just to get some timing right. HOpefully my DSL replacement modem will be here monday so i can get some more stuff. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

LEXX_Luthor
01-21-2006, 08:07 PM
Enforcer::
I think i saw a mod for reducing the time the camera takes to get to other planes to...gotta find that again.
You did see a mod. Its in our PM, the first post, 2nd paragraph. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif hehe its a one-line change from =TRUE to =FALSE.

Ya, the sim was made for dark jet exhaust which goes away with afterburner. Another lighter less dense "exhaust" effect can be made and applied to whatever prop planes. Czech the simhq.

Did you download the cat Extractor from CombatAce?

Enforcer572005
01-21-2006, 08:44 PM
yes i did....just havetn had the chance to use it yet.....hopefully tomorow, though there is a wedding stuff show and Im going to try and hock my services and make a few bucks from those who are masochistic enough to get married http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

And yes, i just noticed that is in there...well duh...i gotta incorporate all that as soon as i get off here.

Im getting into the files to see how this works, and reading as much of those threads at simhq to learn as much as i can about this, between trying to get my vVS project finished....was the monsoon season all day aruond here, so i put it to good use. heh heh.

Oh, and my track IR went out on me while i was doing the CAS misn....lost effect and got a red light instead of the blue one, if anyone knows what that signifies. I jsut turned it off and back on and it worked again.

This thing has some real potential. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

SkyChimp
01-21-2006, 09:05 PM
I have V10.11.02 - Strike Fighters Project 1.

Edit:
Ok, just installed all 4 patches.

Edit2:
I just downloaded the MiG-17F FM fix. Where does that go?

LEXX_Luthor
01-21-2006, 11:04 PM
I have not downloaded it, but I assume its a single text file. If so...

...drop the MiG-17F_DATA config text file directly into the Objects\Aircraft\MiG-17F folder. That's it. If my assumption is wrong, these instructions are equally wrong. Lemme know.

In case ya'll are wondering where the "original" out-of-box FM file is, its safely hidden encrypted inside the ObjectData cat file in the Objects folder and can always be activated again by removing the new "fix" file, and the original can be made available by using the cat Extractor available at CombatAce under SF - Tools/Utilities downloads section. This drops the original file into the Objects folder (whatever folder the cat is in).

Before ya'll mod up (probably a bit late now), copy/paste a backup folder of the sim. Call it "SF" or something. Do it. That way you can start over fresh in the future without using the CD. I assume you already know to do this with FB/PF.

Bremspropeller
01-22-2006, 04:52 AM
Has anybody tried "Operation Tainted Cigar" yet ?

IMHO that's some serious work. B-58, F3H and stuff http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif



My interest suddenly cuts off at around 1973, anything later is "done that, been there" in terms of PC jet simming. The planes all look the same -- Su27s MiG29s, F-14s, F-18s, F-15s, etc... like the new Ford pickup trucks look like Dodges -- heck, like Chevys too. And before 1970, all the jets look waaaay different, afterburner cost you alot, and the AAMs and SAMs *needed* a nucular warhead to work reliably, and all had racy fins like a classic cadillac.


Agree 100%


Although bashing whole squadrons with only four F-14As is kinda funny http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Too bad they merged the weaponspacks now - my weapon editor isn't working properly so I can't join those ini files. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif



BTW: a nice site with lots of 3rd party work:

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?dlcategory=2

Enforcer572005
01-22-2006, 09:28 PM
Hey Lexx....a confused question (ive understood all else till now-the cat extractor is cool)...Im installing the newest weapons pack and updates, and it says to install the included effects folder CONTENT overiding that in the old one, then it says to dnload an updated effects folder and includes the link. So i went there, and its kinda confusing...the one there is 2.18 mb, while the included one in the weapons pack is 1.25mb.....the way i read the instructions, it means to install the included files in the effects folder overwriting any that it replaces, THEN dnload the newest effect pack and install THOSE overwriting any that IT replaces....is htat correct?

Or do i just use the one in the dnload INSTEAD of the one included....i think my first assumption is correct.

Then i assume you must install the extra update packs over that, or do you install those two updates BEFORE you install the one from the dnload site? I know htis is a bit confusing, but the instructions at this point are a bit ambiguous. I have been learnign this system, and i think the cat file is interesting, in that its contents can be extracted seperately and the sim then prioritizes the new file over the ones in teh original cat file....so you haave the originals if you need to revert back. that's brilliant, as it prevents the problems that used to occur in CFS2 when you wanted to get rid of something you had added. THe instructions are pretty clear up to htis point.

Sorry i took up so much space on this tthread asking this, but it was the quickest way i could find out...and the first adon cmpn im flying is the Korea one that just came out...i will dutifully report on that in this thread when i do.

Xiolablu3
01-22-2006, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
target market : americans who wanna fly hero planes and shoot down those evil commie's

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

heywooood
01-22-2006, 10:47 PM
Lexx - that column5 stuff looks pretty cool...

I am a neophyte when it comes to all that data file tweaking though...still I might have to get SF now.

I'm going to bookmark these links - please post more if you have them?...thanks.

Enforcer572005
01-22-2006, 11:28 PM
heywood, nobody hates that kinda thing more than i do (see spyware post in thread this page), but teh system seems kinda simple once you understand it...and its gotta be simple for me to grasp anything associated with software adn cmputers. the file system seems real redundant wiht the cat files keeping stuff in reserve. I jsut got confused on installing the weapons packs, which is itself alot easier than installing them manually apparently, as some come with many new planes.

They release these weapons packs updates regularly to support the adon planes. Seems to be the most supported and organized user made adon sim that ive seen....seems to be. Still a little short on some basics for certain periods, like modern war, but much of it is in progress. i cant think of a scenario that cant be reasonably implemented wiht this sim. IRan-iraq, cold war gone hot, mideast, korea in each decade, vietnam then and now.....man.

i also got the 3rd party misn editor....not anywhere near what we have in il2 (good FMB in the maddox sims), but it seems to have served the cmpn blders well. Never dreamed of flying a B58 or 47, or Isreali AF planes of the 6 day war and yom kippur.

LEXX_Luthor
01-22-2006, 11:47 PM
I still use the last weapon update, not the latest, since I didn't want to mess with that massive split pack. You are on your own now -- ask simhq. I am slowly building my own weapons pack for my purposes.

heywoood, this is the first "open" sim I ever touched. SF is designed from the start to be open, so it works very well here. ThirdWire even publishes a Terrain Editor, and, they say its a beta. This helps the community create maps to match the planes.

Forgot ** If you do Online, take a look at Target Korea Mod for TargetWare...still in development but its combat flyable...online only.

scroll down here ~> http://www.targetware.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=PNphpBB2&file=index

dugong
01-24-2006, 09:17 AM
No 3D clouds though!