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View Full Version : Improving Assassins Creed. (Warning: long post)



Sangine12
02-02-2011, 08:18 PM
Hey,

I'd like to share my thoughts on how to improve the game series, dont get me wrong I completely love the game, Ive played all 3 and I cant wait for the next in series, and having played them I cant help but feel there could be alot of improvements. My biggest concern with the games are the fact that it is far too easy, I found myself during missions to create my own little challenges, for example: fighting with fists and no disarming or dodging or no ranged kills, just to keep myself entertained. So most of my ideas and little thoughts revolve around making the game a challenge. Anyway, on to the first one:

Diffuculty.
This more than likely would have been discussed on the forum but I'd like to share my approach at it.
Add a hard mode; balancing difficulty is hard to pull off in a video game, most games just increase enemy health and damage which is fair but not enough. So in addition to improving health and damage of enemies why not limit the amount of ammunition the assassin can carry, something like: 3 bullets, 4 knives, 3 crossbow bolts, 2 poison vials, 2 parachutes and 1 smoke bomb.
This would actually require the player to think about which tool is best for the situtation and to learn to manage the ammunition. I could plow through the whole game using just the crossbow, because it is so overpowered (one hit kill and silent) compared to the weak AI.
Also, only have 1 square of HP, not much to say because that is all you really need.

Combat.
Increase the aggressiveness of the AI, they dont attack to often. Sometimes guards will grab you but the others wont attack whilst you are vulnerable, why grab me in the first place? Allow them to attack you, if you are quick enough you can counter grab and dodge the incoming attack. Using a counter shouldnt be an instant kill, if I recall correctly in AC1/AC2 countering a guard with full health made them counterback at you, bringing their HP down to around 50% they were then vulnerable to a counter, bring this combat back. Guards at full HP should also counter your normal strike,s again this was present in AC1/AC2 but not in Brotherhood.
The kill streak and executions are great, with the increased aggressiveness you should be constantly switching between on the offense and defense.
In a guard patrol, it usually consists of 2 seekers and 2 soldiers, why not randomise it each time, one day it could be 3 agiles and 1 seeker, or another day but the same outpost it could be 2 brutes, 1 soldier, 1 agile.

Minimap and Eagle Vision.
Remove the red dots (which represent enemies) of the minimap. When entering entering eagle vision any enemies in your sight are automatically placed on the minimap, similar to how the borgia flags are placed on the map after spotting them.
Another thing about the eagle vision is the range of effect, say I spot a guard 50 metres away, I use eagle vision but he doesnt show up in red because the range is only 30 metres, why not have eagle vision the same range as 'normal' vision. Another thing: eagles and other birds of prey are known to have binocular vision, why not add a 'zoom in' feature whilst using eagle vision.
These changes to eagle vision would actually give an incentive to the player to get up on a high vantage point, use eagle vision, zoom in and spot guards, once theyre done the location of the guards is placed on the map (awesome for an infiltration mission http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

Enemy line of sight and AI.
I could assassinate a guard whilst another watches from 40 metres away and be completely oblivious to what just happened. Another example is standing on a rooftop pull out the crossbow, kill 4 guards standing right next to each other and not even be detected
If theyre in my line of sight Im in theirs, they should chase me.

Chases.
If in conflict (in free roam), there should be an infinite amount of reinforcements, with each new wave of reinforcements the guards are stronger and are more in numbers than the first, for example: you start off by fighting three level 1's brutes, agiles, seekers etc. after killing them six level 2's will appear, then nine level 3's and so on, to a point where you are overwhelmed and have to run and lose them.
Only the agile guards can run faster than you, and when he catches up with you he hits you with his weapon, which slows you down for half a second. Why not have all guards run as fast as you do (yes even brutes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif) and when they do catch up with you they will tackle you to the ground forcing you to fight or you try to run again. This time you start climbing a tower, again why not have the pursuers also climb buildings as well as you do (not brutes, they can throw the stones).
In an early version of AC1 you could destroy a wooden structure with your weapon to create a barricade and slow down the guards chasing you. Heres the video, skip to 4:45 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEdkDOIe8YM
Why not implement that?

Pickpocketing/Borgia messengers.
I saw a thread here recently saying that the pickpockets in the later parts of the game, when you have tens of thousands of florins, are completely unimportant since it only steals 500 florins at a time,I completely agree. My suggestion is to make it a percentage based, something like 50% of your money and also a random item from you. Say you had 10k, he steals 5k and your dagger. When chasing him he could destroy those wooden structures to slow you down and set other kinds of traps for you. Another thing I noticed with the pickpockets is if you face him before he steals from you he actually starts running away and hes on the minimap, they should walk up to you pick your pockets knock you over and then run away, they are way too obvious at the moment.
So whats the point of gentle push? I think one of the only times I've ever used it was at the end of AC1 when you had to walk through the hypnotised crowd. My suggestion: remove gentl epush, replace it with the pickpocket 'minigame' from AC1, you can pickpocket anyone, civilians will give you medecine, archers have crossbow bolts etc.
I love killing the borgia messengers after a while it gets old though, this could be a new to to introduce assassination missions: Kill the borgia messenger, loot him, discover his letter is addressed to a templar, go kill the templar.

A stamina/energy bar.
You could free run all day if you wanted to. I think having a stamina bar could make things quite interesting. Sprinting obviously decreases the bar as well as climbing buildings and hanging off ledges, if you run out of energy while running you might have to stop for 3 seconds to fully replenish. In combat going on the offensinve and attacking could reduce your stamina too, while playing defensively allows you to replenish, maybe mis-timing a counter could cause you to severely lose energy.

Notoriety
Anything socially unacceptable should add to your notoriety meter, climbing a building with civilians shouting at you increases your noteriety maybe some of the civilians calls a guard over, and he tells you to get down or he'll attack, like what archers do. This way you really have to find a safe spot to climb without being noticed by everyone or using ladders, they are a socially acceptable way of getting to a roof of a building and no guards will question you when you use one.
Sprinting also increases notoriety but only by a small amount each time.

Stealth! (no not social stealth)
How about fully incorparating a stealth system. For missions when there isnt a public to use social stealth, for example inside a private residence. You could throw a single coin at a specific point on the floor to lure a guard away from his post and quietly sneaking past him. Your assassin can crouch softening his footsteps allowing him to sneak behind guards and assassinate them. If falling from a height you press A or X and you land softly on the floor, (if you played splinter cell you know what i mean) failing to do so will create noise attract guards to your position.
Why not a cover system too? No, not something like Gears of War, just something to allow the assassin to 'stick to the wall' and peek around corners. If you're peeking around a corner and a guard is coming towards you can assassinate from around the corner. You can shoot you gun/crossbow or throw a knife from peeking around the corner.

Aiming.
You can now manually aim the crossbow and knife if you choose to, they are only a one hit kill if hit in the head/neck or the area near the heart. The gun remains a one hit kill, the drawback is the loud noise it produces causes nearby guards to invistigate. If hitting the hand of a guard with a crossbow you cause them to drop their weapon if hit in the foot, he cannot run nor climb.

That it for now I have a few more ideas swimming in my head but to be honest, I cannot be bothered http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Thanks for reading

PS. I probably be getting replies such as your ideas suck etc or no replies, let me just say I couldnt sleep and I was bored, needed something to do to past the time.

kriegerdesgottes
02-02-2011, 08:37 PM
ok I do agree it would be cool if they implemented like a red dead system where you could shoot people in certain body parts and they will react as if they had been shot there, that would be cool however I must disagree with you and many others about the difficulty complaint. You will probably say I like things to be easy which is not necessarily the case. It's just that I do not play games like this to be frustrated and challenged, a game should be a little challenging sure, but making a game downright difficult so that you get more out of it is not smart. I don't play games for difficulty, I go to math class for that, I play AC to feel like a badass ninja assassin who can take down 10 people in well under a minute, that appeals to me. I don't need things to have difficulty in doing every little thing to be fun.Then it just becomes frustrating and annoying.oh but I do agree too about the line of sight thing, it is a bit ridiculous that you can kill 4 guys and another 4 are standing 20 feet away totally oblivious.

blacktiger00
02-02-2011, 08:47 PM
I love pretty much ALL Of these ideas.

the only one that I don't agree with at all is the chases because in my mind that makes it more aggresive.

Some of the others though I definetly agree with. Especially the last 3, notoriety, stealth and aiming. Even though this probably makes it more metal gear solid ish, i really like those features and if implimented PROPELY could work. Especialy the corner look idea.
I wanna kill people around corners http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The stamina might not work because we don't know yet the extent of the assassins abilities (namely the implication that they got strength from TWCB) but maybe that after you have been running for five minutes you start to slow. But imagine climbing the colluseum if you have a grip bar. That would be horrible.

Pickpocketing ideas = awesome.

eagle vision, i think having the shorter ranges ads to difficulty, because you have to kind of be in a danger zone to know who you are in danger from, so while a longer range i dont like the idea of almost zooming in (an eagle can actually focus its sight on a long distance area to see it better) especially on view points would be really nice.


Awesome ideas.

Slowjocrow
02-02-2011, 10:57 PM
It's funny that this is the first thing I read when I got home because I was joking today about how the objectives in AC could be guarded by an entire castle/army and you're thought would just be "I'm Altair/Ezio, I got this" and just march right up to the front door and ask them to start fighting. The games do become way too easy, and this is coming from somebody who, unlike kriegerdesgotte, enjoys games like Ninja Gaiden that seem to be out to get you. Games that make you have to learn to fight well. The learning curve in AC is essentially a handicap access ramp. It's just so inviting..."please, kill everyone, we insist." And while this can be so much fun, it really ruins the point of taking efforts to be stealthy, clever, whatever because you're left with the quite well earned assurance that you can take on the whole town given they don't run away from you after a few counter kills. The most frustrating things are when Ezio/Altair jumps and hangs on the rafters when you don't want him to, or flings himself off a tower, goes the wrong way, kills the civilian instead of the target, etc. Unfortunately these sorts of problems arise in 3rd person action games, or games where you're free to step on EVERYTHING because if it was too free then he might not stay somewhat locked onto the fence like you want him to. Anyway, I'd like to address your ideas and add some of my own comments, since people don't come to forums unless they have something to say in the first place.

The whole reason I came here today was to try to appeal to Ubisoft to add an option to vault low objects rather than stepping up onto them and leap full length off. The game really cashed in on the parkour craze going on around the time AC 1 released, but they took away one of the signature moves that freerunners were doing to cause us to smile. Ironically as I'm watching the link given in the original post, Altair does a lazy vault off of a porch at around 4:49. If you can do these moves already in AC games then please tell me how, and I'll feel ignorant, take back this comment, and then smile and go do it a bunch. The player should be able to do these moves like the kong vault, dash vault, reverse vault, and especially a speed vault. All of these moves can be view at http://www.urbanfreeflow.com/ by the way in case you're going "what's the difference?" Maybe just tap or double tap A when you're coming up on an applicable obstacle, so you still have the option to jump up onto it. There's also a turn vault, which would greatly be appreciated, Ubisoft. I know I've done my share of unintentional leaps into the street when encountering a rail. The alternative is a painfully slow transition from balcony to hanging off the rail. Desmond's a modern guy and should take some pointers from certain Frenchmen to better carry out his line of work. Another group of people he could learn from are rock climbers. I feel like the climbing in AC 1 was much more technical and interesting as opposed to the newer ones, which may just be trying to make things run faster or more smoothly. Coming from a climber, I want to see technical energy saving moves out of somebody who has the...courage to climb a minaret and dyno backwards to a crimpy ledge. The game presents some obstacles that are extremely annoying because they aren't recognized as options or don't flow well. Watch some bouldering videos. These guys do some amazing stuff that even Altair or Ezio would be impressed by. This also links into something Sangine12 said about climbing stamina. If the player climbs with precision and technique, it should seem more feasible for some of these great physical feats to be possible.

Difficulty: I feel like the life bar should never go above something like 5 blocks. They should feel very precious to you, and especially once you get into the game and learn to counter and dodge and everything it feels insulting to get hit in a fight, and that's generally due to a camera angle or something stupid more than anything. I'm generally not very keen on just raising damage from enemies and more life for them because then you lose that sense of relativity and you're just slashing up an unstoppable robot who does disproportionate damage to you, and it takes those great "I'm a ninja badass" kills away from the player. I think that the game should not only limit the player to a reasonable amount of items/ammo, but limit the amount of kinds of gear/items you can carry around in general. Waltzing around with a sword(which nobody but guards are carrying to begin with), a knife, a crossbow, big pouches, etc. is not very stealthy nor conducive to being agile.

Combat: I feel like the guards are noticeably more willing to fight me in Brotherhood. There's less time between people swinging at me, and they seem to run away less. In AC 2 it was impossible to get any extended action (No Hitter achievement took me forever). It'd be nice (if there isn't already) a kind of mob morale function so that as long as reinforcements keep coming and/or there is a good ratio of them to you, they'll stick around. Guards grabbing me does seem pretty pointless since they are so independent about it. I should be jamming B so that I have just enough time to counter or even block the other guy coming in to get an easy kill on me. Instant counter kills shouldn't be guaranteed, but they definitely keep the pace going and make you look/feel like "a ninja badass," which I personally want if I'm playing "a ninja badass." I like the new kill streaks. They make combat feel very fluid and the other enemies seem to take a good amount of swings at you while you're trying to clear as many as possible. It could be faster, though. I like guards countering me, as well, it makes them seem more competent and alive.

Minimap/Eagle Vision: I really liked the edition of the map marking flags as you found them in case you are on a mission or too busy doing something that stops you from getting it right then and there. And I like the idea of having a similar mechanic for guards. If guards are ALWAYS at some entrance or place then I can understand them getting marked and staying permanent, but you should have to look and make note of them.

Enemy AI and Line of Sight: Things like the cases you're describing are pretty ridiculous. Guards could be smarter. But they should also have a reasonable ability to detect you. I'm going to comment on the cover aspect of stealth in this section since it feels like a lot of times you shouldn't be visible and there's plenty to hide behind even from far away by lining objects up appropriately. I should be able to run up to a chimney and not just stand there like an idiot waiting for stage directions. I also think guard's sight distance should decrease at night (if it does I can't tell) and shadows should become more of a game mechanic (the Splinter Cell haters will be after me for that comment).

Chases: I've actually always hated how the guards seem to keep up with you despite your amazing displays of trained physical prowess. Average guards shouldn't know how to freerun and scale the faces of buildings. Make them use the ladders at least. The player shouldn't be invincible up on the rooftops, but Altair doesn't really stand out when everyone can move like him. After an escape, the guards could be much more wary for much longer to compensate for the bit of freedom you get for taking the hard way. Plus there will still be rooftop guards or guys with guns on the ground to spot and shoot at you. I disagree with the post saying that guards should be as fit and fast as Ezio. He should be a physical marvel akin to how Batman is just an amazing athlete with cool gadgets.

Stamina: Ezio or whoever SHOULD get tired, though, it seems he refuses to do so. Sprinting is exhausting, climbing totally pumps your arms, boxers (who train like crazy to stay fit enough to keep fighting) get tired...really tired. Imagine swinging a sword and deflecting blows with it after you just ran up ten flights of stairs and traversed a ledge by just your fingers. I'm not saying he should just eventually drop right there, but there should be like an alarm telling you the player that your character's body is about to fail, and you need to find a good place to catch up and shake it out...or sleep.

Notoriety: It felt like notoriety was too strict in AC 2 and now waaaay too loose in Brotherhood. I've started killing every guard in sight and bouncing off walls and acting like a lunatic and have yet to receive a single red mark of notoriety in Roma.

Stealth: I like the falling silently idea, and like I mentioned above, you should be able to more actively hide behind stuff. Once cover comes into play, though, then I get nervous that I'm gonna get stuck scooting back and forth trying to get around a fountain or well or something to get the kill before the other guards come back.

Aiming: I'm not sure how I feel about manual aiming. I think it'd take away from the speed of things on a normal basis. I think it could work if you went into first person or something like Ninja Gaiden or Zelda.

This reply is long enough. I hope some game designer or friend of such a person sees this before AC 3 and says "hey, these guys have some great feedback."

k20ml
02-02-2011, 11:55 PM
In my personal opinion, Assassin's Creed is supposed to be assassins who work in the dark to serve the light. If an assassin is killing in public, one tenet of the 3 creeds is broken. In this way, the player shouldn't just air assassinate like crazy but be stealthy enough not to alarm civilians. Open conflict in the assassin order is strictly the last resort. Open conflict must not be encouraged for a game that has established its name for being stealthy.

I also think that the creed should be implemented as well. The assassins must follow the creed at all cost. This is what the title is all about people! It is "ASSASSIN'S CREED" not "Whatever i want to do with my assassin like skills in the game creed."

And yes the addition of stamina will greatly change and improve gameplay. But since assassins are bred from the loins of TWCB and humns, they have exceptionally high stamina, but it is NOT infinite.

I also think that in open combat, one hit is enough to kill or severely damage the assassin since heavy armor will disable him to become agile and stealthy. Also the ability to efficiently use one's body to eliminate as much enemies as possible and as fast is assassin-like. Like for example the assassin only has his hidden blade as weapons and his body as weapons so as not to hinder his ability to be agile and quite. But I also like the idea that there will be a limit to the items that can be carried and not only the amount of items.

I do think that noise and shadows should be part of gameplay so that we as gamers are not so wreckless with our actions. In doing so we not only play the game but also be immersed to the the game. As i have said the creed is not only doctrinal but is applied with the gameplay.

I personally do not like the medicine idea. medicine will not heal you so quickly especially with their ancient remedies back then. This is connected with the one hit kill idea I had presented earlier. I like to have a serious badass assassin who, in his lifetime, never was hit when we relive his memories. Now that's badass.

LxLAS3RzZz
02-03-2011, 12:58 AM
Can you please take this to the Feedback thread? It's for all reviews, feedback and suggestions. Instead of cluttering up the forums, it's also more likely that it'd be looked back at in that thread.

misterB2001
02-03-2011, 02:11 AM
Is it just me who thinks that the demo in the link near the top looks freaking awesome!

Some of the aspects of that demo would totally improve the game.

MrRoboto578
02-03-2011, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by LxLAS3RzZz:
Can you please take this to the Feedback thread? It's for all reviews, feedback and suggestions. Instead of cluttering up the forums, it's also more likely that it'd be looked back at in that thread.

Those "specialized" threads are a place so the Devs DON'T have to look at them. Good ideas get drowned by the vast number of bad ones that get put into the same lottery draw. They don't sit and go through every page and post.

I hate it when I see people try to shut down a good post because it's "not in the right place." Let them have their own post, it does not hurt anyone.

Slowjocrow
02-06-2011, 12:45 AM
Regarding Notoriety, it seems I spoke too soon and just needed to progress a little farther into the game. It seems notoriety has been improved since AC 2 so that the notoriety is localized to the area where your incident occurred and depends on whether or not anyone (guards) noticed. I think this is much more realistic and was kind of a gripe for me when playing the last game.

Also about Combat, it seems that during the combat virtual challenges, the guards are much more eager to come after you, and when guards grab you, it's very common to see another one swinging for you. I think it could add a little bit to have the guard who grabs you yell to the others to get you while he's holding you. Right now it seems so lifeless and it's just "I've grabbed you......press B"

Black_Widow9
02-06-2011, 12:19 PM
Hello and welcome to the Forums http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Please make sure you post your Feedback here-
Assassins Creed: Brotherhood feedback thread. (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/4821045298)
Thanks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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