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TG484
06-26-2011, 08:05 PM
I have been playing a descent amount of il-2 1946 lately. When I play online well, I plain suck. I shoot for a year and the enemy plane takes no damage, they pull up, roll and shoot my wing off in about 3 seconds flat.

I have tried to gain skills in the offline mode but I found a bigger problem, I will get into a turning battle with a enemy plane, pull up on their 6 but I am too far away to fire, I usually do full throttle till I overheat but I never get any closer and the AI pulls away. After that the AI just flies away and never engages me, I have put the time to 8x and just watch as the enemy plane just flies away.

Many times I get on a enemy plane and they just pull away, my question is, How do I close the final gap to firing range and how do I train on a AI that never engages me?

I know that this topic may have already been covered but if someone could please help me without any rude comments or flaming that would be very appreciated.

horseback
06-26-2011, 08:45 PM
First, what are you flying and what kind of ai opposition are you selecting?

If you're flying Soviet against German, the ai (who don't have overheat issues) hold all the cards; they can outclimb and outrun you in most contemporary Soviet fighters. After the initial merge, they can just run away if they aren't feeling vengeful.

However, if you're trying a bit of this and a bit of that, you aren't learning what works with any single airplane.

Pick one airplane and stay with it; after a while, you'll learn how to get the most out of it and develop a feel for when to shoot. How much trim to add or subtract, how much rudder for a given turn, how to lead your target, all of these things take a while to learn.

Check out the Nugget's Guide and learn a bit about the tools and options available to you as well; there's some good stuff in there.

Above all, be patient. Like any skill, it takes time to master the art of virtual air combat.

cheers

horseback

Tully__
06-26-2011, 11:20 PM
Don't shoot from directly behind, it's really hard to hit a vulnerable spot. Practice coming in from an angle.

If you're using Quick Mission Builder for practice, select fast, light, twin engine bombers as targets to begin with before moving "up" to fighters. If the bombers' gunners give you too much grief, you can set the target's loadout to "Empty" to get you started.

TG484
06-27-2011, 10:49 AM
Thanks for the tips, but also were do I go to learn advanced things like rudder control or is that just something that I learn over time?

horseback
06-27-2011, 01:00 PM
'advanced things like rudder control?'

Are you using a joystick? Most of these have the rudder control in a twist axis (i.e., you twist the joystick handle to control the rudder). I could never get the hang of those things and invested in a set of rudder pedals, which are a bit pricey, but much more intuitive.

And you learn how much rudder to apply from flying and using it; you'll learn quickest from trial and error.

cheers

horseback

jameson2010
06-28-2011, 06:26 AM
Get your favourite ride up in the air flying straight, level and trimmed, then use only the rudder to fly the plane. i.e. see how you can keep the wings horizontal just by using it. Notice when the wings are level find out how much you are able to turn using the rudder, whilst keeping the plane level. Notice when, with wings banked, what happens to the nose when you use the rudder.
WW2 Russian pilots were told to keep the ball in the middle at all times, determine if that was sound advice in your view. Good luck!

PhantomKira
06-28-2011, 10:00 AM
^^ The above is good advice. Works well in a real airplane. My flight instructor demonstrated turns with just rudder, showing me in the process that it's possible to fly an airplane with just rudder and power. This shows you that you don't need all controls to get home should you take certain damage in combat (ailerons, for example), and you certainly learn that the thing won't fall out of the sky under conditions where the unknowing believe it might. The Japanese, apparently, were also taught to keep the ball centered at all times. Not the greatest idea in combat, where flying uncoordinated means you're not going where you appear to be going (and thus enemy bullets may miss), and when you might want to get your guns on target despite going in a slightly different direction. Rudder control isn't exactly advanced in combat sims. You can get away without it in Microsoft Flight Sim, but in a combat sim, you have to have control over the rudder to kick the nose where you need it to get your guns on target.

I just got my new rudder pedals yesterday, and it does take a little re-training if you've been using twist stick, even for a certified private pilot, who knows that rudder pedals are the only way. Still, I was immediately able to do maneuvers with the pedals that I couldn't handle with twist stick, notably one in which I went from high right to high left deflection in a very short amount of time. Can't do that with twist stick, my wrist protested! Not so with feet.

With regards to turning in a fight, don't, generally speaking. Every time you turn, you lose energy. Sure, if turning means absolutely getting your guns on target, guaranteed, then do so, but maximum rate turns without a decent chance of guns on target are not a good idea. The more you can not turn while your enemy turns, the more energy you'll store up in relation to him. Once he's made a bunch of turns that you haven't, you'll have such an overhead of energy that you'll be able to dictate the terms of the fight. If you must turn (which of course, you will if you want to stay in the fight) do so at the top of a maneuver when your energy is lowest and thus the energy penalty for turning is lowest. I'm getting all this from the article/manual at the bottom, in my signature. (inpursuit.pdf)

Ba5tard5word
06-28-2011, 11:32 AM
The AI cheat quite a bit and their tendency is to fly up and away from you if they are in a faster plane than you or if they are in a better accelerating plane. An AI Bf-109 will pretty much always do this, I avoid flying against 109's unless I'm in a plane that has a considerably higher top speed. Get Hardball's Aircraft Viewer or Il2Compare to compare the top speeds between different planes. Top speed is really the main factor in fighting the AI because they will pretty much always fly at or near top speed and never overheat...you can usually fly at max throttle until you overheat, then you have to throttle down and fly slower to cool off and then the AI either runs away from you or dives in to attack you. In real life pilots could only fly at max throttle for short periods or they'd burn out their planes, but in Il-2 the AI never overheats.

Here are some good matchups against the AI that are fun:

- Buffalo Mk. I vs. 1940/41 Zero
- Buffalo B29 (Finnish version) vs. I-16 type 24
- Wildcat vs. 1940-1942 Zero
- Spitfire Mk. VIII vs. MC 205
- Tempest vs. pretty much any Bf 109 or Fw 190--the Tempest has a very high top speed but is slow to accelerate, so it's a good fighter to fly as well as a forgiving opponent, though 109's will probably fly away from them a lot, maybe pick 190's as an opponent instead.
- Tempest vs. J2M or Ki-84b
- La-5FN or any La-7 vs. pretty much any Fw 190's or late model Bf 109's. These La models have ridiculous top speeds and accelerate pretty fast and are super maneuverable, you'll do well against any 109 or 190 model in them.



Again just compare top speeds and put yourself in a plane that is about as fast or faster than your opponent. Take note of how there are many models for some planes like Bf-109's that each have different top speeds. The Bf-109 seems to be the worst offender in terms of climbing up and away from you if you try to chase it, and will do this endlessly unless you're in a much faster plane. Even if you're in a fast plane that doesn't accelerate or climb well (like a Tempest) the 109 will climb up and away from you all day long until you're chasing him around Mars. Oleg and co. really dropped the ball on this aspect of offline flight.

DKoor
06-28-2011, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by TG484:
I have been playing a descent amount of il-2 1946 lately. When I play online well, I plain suck. I shoot for a year and the enemy plane takes no damage, they pull up, roll and shoot my wing off in about 3 seconds flat.

I have tried to gain skills in the offline mode but I found a bigger problem, I will get into a turning battle with a enemy plane, pull up on their 6 but I am too far away to fire, I usually do full throttle till I overheat but I never get any closer and the AI pulls away. After that the AI just flies away and never engages me, I have put the time to 8x and just watch as the enemy plane just flies away.

Many times I get on a enemy plane and they just pull away, my question is, How do I close the final gap to firing range and how do I train on a AI that never engages me?

I know that this topic may have already been covered but if someone could please help me without any rude comments or flaming that would be very appreciated. In IL-2 you should preferably be doing what they did in WW2 historically. I'm afraid that you will need to fly vs humans to do it as Ai cheats when it comes to aircraft performance.
For instance, as a rule of thumb, I can't effectively use Bf-109 climb vs Hurricane unless I'm extra, extra careful and even then only to a limited degree which is laughable when compared to real life (historical situation) where Hurricanes suffered heavily to 109s in climb.

Anyhow, check out power of .50cal track in my sig to see best way to attack fighter in IL-2.
You can check out some of my other tracks where I battled several enemy ace fighters on realistic settings sometimes with slower airplane and still managed to win over them. Takes some practice.

Bearcat99
06-30-2011, 06:33 AM
Originally posted by TG484:
I have been playing a descent amount of il-2 1946 lately. When I play online well, I plain suck. I shoot for a year and the enemy plane takes no damage, they pull up, roll and shoot my wing off in about 3 seconds flat.

I have tried to gain skills in the offline mode but I found a bigger problem, I will get into a turning battle with a enemy plane, pull up on their 6 but I am too far away to fire, I usually do full throttle till I overheat but I never get any closer and the AI pulls away. After that the AI just flies away and never engages me, I have put the time to 8x and just watch as the enemy plane just flies away.

Many times I get on a enemy plane and they just pull away, my question is, How do I close the final gap to firing range and how do I train on a AI that never engages me?

I know that this topic may have already been covered but if someone could please help me without any rude comments or flaming that would be very appreciated.

All good stuff in here.. when you hit the Nugget's Guide scroll down to Additional Resources.. Make sure you check out In Pursuit, snipers corner, The RAF Gunnery manual, Bag the Hun, Gunnery @ AW.C, ACM, Dart's Page including his excellent training videos.. and the link to A&A in my sig (Angels * Airspeed) also links to some of the other reference sources are also listed in the Nugget's Guide.

nte70
08-25-2011, 06:33 AM
Originally posted by jameson2010:
Get your favourite ride up in the air flying straight, level and trimmed, then use only the rudder to fly the plane. i.e. see how you can keep the wings horizontal just by using it. Notice when the wings are level find out how much you are able to turn using the rudder, whilst keeping the plane level. Notice when, with wings banked, what happens to the nose when you use the rudder.
WW2 Russian pilots were told to keep the ball in the middle at all times, determine if that was sound advice in your view. Good luck!

Ive landed a hurricane using this method.ailerons got shot out.
The bird would never fly again....not to mention my virtual back problems for the rest of my virtual life. But its doable