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IceShade-
03-02-2007, 05:54 PM
Hey there.

First off, the search function seems to be bonkers, because everything I try to search for doesn't work. I tried searching for "u-boat" .. which resulted in nothing found. Mhm.

Anyway, when the AI operates the 37mm flak gun (any version, whether it's the semi auto, full auto or twin), the shells explode near the plane; as if they were set on a timer or have a proximity fuse.

Now when I operate the flak gun, the shells don't explode near the targets at all. Instead, I'm just firing big shells at airplanes just like a 20mm.

Is there anyway to activate this proximity fuse or timer or whatever it is for the player?

Grrbob25
03-02-2007, 07:11 PM
you have to manually load the AA shells, because if you just select the gun it loads the defualt AP rounds, which don't explode like flak

Foehammer-1
03-03-2007, 08:22 AM
Nope, the manually loaded AA shells don't work either, they blow up at max distance. I asked this a while ago, and nobody replied. Does anyone know??

IceShade-
03-03-2007, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by Grrbob25:
you have to manually load the AA shells, because if you just select the gun it loads the defualt AP rounds, which don't explode like flak

Like Foehammer said, the "manually loaded" AA shells don't explode next to the target either. They keep going till they finally explode at their maximum distance.

Also, AA shells are loaded first for me, not AP.

IceShade-
03-06-2007, 03:47 PM
Anyone any idea at all?

IceShade-
03-14-2007, 05:30 AM
Well, the lack of replies is certainly disappointing..

klcarroll
03-14-2007, 07:04 AM
I can appreciate that you're disappointed: ......I, myself, am rather surprised by what you're pointing out. With the number of people playing this game, I would think that we would have heard more about this issue in the past.

Personally, I have always taken "the lazy man's route" and simply promoted and decorated the hell out of my AA guys; ......making them far better than I will ever be!

(.........Well, it's not entirely laziness: ...I play on a laptop, and with the screen I have, my gunners ALWAYS saw the planes before I did.)

Keep "bumping" this thread up to page one! With the number of people on this forum, and the wide variety of mods being run; ....SOMEBODY will come up with more information for us.

It may just take a little time.

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lecek
03-14-2007, 10:11 AM
There are few replies because no knows for sure. This question has been asked before and I never saw anything but shrugged shoulders.

AFIAK. The only way to make the shells explode near the plane is to have your crew do it. If you shoot AA rounds manually they explode at max distance. So ends what I can say with 85% confidence.

Much less confident. I have noticed that sometimes I can hit a plane with a shell and have it explode suddenly about 3 or 4 seconds later. About the time it takes for that shell to reach max range. However it is difficult to tell if this is exactly what is going on and it doesn't happen consistantly enough to test. It could just be the damage doesn't show for 3 seconds or even another shell hits the craft after 3 seconds....whatever. In my case I normally only engage aircraft when I am caught on the surface in good weather. I have made single missions for gunnery practice. This means that I have shot down thousands of aircraft with that gun.... but I still can't tell exactly what is going on because they have a habbit of shooting themselves while trying to gun me.

At any rate. If you are good with the 37 it is better to just shoot them yourself anyway and forget about where it explodes. The gunners on the sub are not very acurate and hitting the plane at all does lots of damage with the AA shell. The AP shell seems to be much weaker though.

Foehammer-1
03-14-2007, 05:04 PM
With the SH3 Mini Tweaker, a wonderful tool, I checked on this matter about shell power. The AP shell does 2-5 damage, while the AA does 4-8. Now, I'm assuming this is a dead-on hit. The AA shells explode, however... No idea on damage there

klcarroll
03-15-2007, 06:42 AM
Foehammer brings up an interesting point. If you use "SH3 Mini Tweaker" to look at the values for the 37mm rounds, you see the following:

AP ROUND
MinEf = 2.5
MaxEf = 7
MinRadius = 0.5
MaxRadius = 3

AA ROUND
MinEf = 0.5
MaxEf =5
MinRadius = 1
MaxRadius = 5

As you can see from the MaxRadius values, the AP round, (which certainly requires a direct hit to be effective) has a maximum damage radius that is 60% of the AA round's value.

This small increase in damage radius implies to me that you would still need to score a direct hit with the AA round in order to have any effect. There is no indication of any sort of extended damage radius due to air-bursting shells.

Are we sure that the flak explosions seen in the vicinity of the aircraft are not simply "eye candy"?????

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BTW: "SH3 Mini Tweaker" is GREAT! (Particularly if you're "Hex Dyslexic" like me.) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

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klcarroll
03-15-2007, 06:54 AM
Oh yeah, ......one other thing!

If you're in the mood for a completely non-historic "Socko Patrol", the Mini Tweaker will let you make that 37mm "bark" like an 88! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Great Fun! .....Just remember to set things back to normal when you leave on a serious patrol: ....No one will believe a 300K mission anyway. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

IceShade-
03-15-2007, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by klcarroll:

Are we sure that the flak explosions seen in the vicinity of the aircraft are not simply "eye candy"?????





While Foehammer poses an interesting point, I think yours is mighty interesting as well, klcarroll. In fact, I have seen the AI gunners (whom are amazingly accurate) have their shells behind the aircraft, but seemingly not destroying and or damaging them. I have no logs to confirm is, but that is my theory. The explosions could just be eye-candy. But then again, there is something that is triggering these explosions.

I have raised this question in 2005 somewhere, but as the rest of you have stated, nothing other than shrugging and IDKs came up. The fact that some members of this forum actually have put some thought and research into this pleases me!

Hopefully a mod can actually provide an answer to this and put it to rest for once and for all. As it is currently, one will need to score a direct hit in order to destroy aircraft.

Also, what is up with the reload time of full-auto 37mm cannons? The semi-auto has a reload time of about 3 seconds, while the full-auto versions have instantaenous reload times. Is there a line I can edit to change this? Not only the AI wastes about 300 rounds per airplane, it is amazingly unrealistic to have fresh magazines pop in their place in an instant... also, on the point of AI wasting 300 rounds per airplane, did submarines (IXB 40' class) really carry 2800 37mm AA rounds, 1600 37mm AP rounds, 4000 20mm rounds and about 400 105mm shells?!

klcarroll
03-15-2007, 12:36 PM
Also, what is up with the reload time of full-auto 37mm cannons?

I might be mistaken, but I believe that the full auto model used on the U-Boats was the "3.7cm Flak 42". If that is true then I believe that this gun allowed for continuous feed of "stripper-clipped" shells, like the U.S. 40mm Bofors guns: .....Consequently, with a good crew, there would be NO interuption of fire during reloading. (They just have to stay ahead of the gun's usage.)

The picture below shows the feed mechanism with reasonable clarity:

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q84/klcarroll/37M4213b.jpg

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Foehammer-1
03-15-2007, 05:31 PM
The Russians had (and still have) this system. There are rails that feed into the breech. You stick a clip in, and a clip on top. As the gun eats through the first clip, it switches to the second. Then you add another one on top. Therefore, "instantaneous" reload time. As for the semi-auto 37mm gun, with good gunners it takes about half a second to reload, as the manual states

Liddabit
03-15-2007, 05:33 PM
I hate the big heavy flak gun. When the crew shoots it they are light years off, even with AA certs and when I shoot it I can't tell it to detonate near the plane :P Lose lose!

Every single one of my plane shoot downs are with the rapid fire one at medium to close range.

klcarroll
03-15-2007, 10:35 PM
I agree that 20mm is the way to go at close and medium ranges,

......But the auto 37mm is the only tool you have available that can engage the B-24s before they can get close enough to do business.

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Liddabit
03-15-2007, 10:48 PM
I havn't seen any b24s yet. If they get ot do their business is it game over :P?

klcarroll
03-16-2007, 12:59 AM
If they get ot do their business is it game over :P?

Very frequently! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

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IceShade-
03-16-2007, 05:44 AM
Originally posted by klcarroll:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Also, what is up with the reload time of full-auto 37mm cannons?

I might be mistaken, but I believe that the full auto model used on the U-Boats was the "3.7cm Flak 42". If that is true then I believe that this gun allowed for continuous feed of "stripper-clipped" shells, like the U.S. 40mm Bofors guns: .....Consequently, with a good crew, there would be NO interuption of fire during reloading. (They just have to stay ahead of the gun's usage.)

The picture below shows the feed mechanism with reasonable clarity:

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q84/klcarroll/37M4213b.jpg

* </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah yes, you're right. I totally forgot about this reload system and their similarities with the Bofors 40mm system (although the game doesn't really show this: you empty a 2x5rd clips and they immediately pop back into place. But I guess it's realistic enough http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ). I figured it couldn't really be a bug, as it is probably just a line in basic.cfg and would easily have been patched in the first five minutes of the release of the game.

banzai_billy
03-16-2007, 01:21 PM
I noticed this too, because i was tired of ordering my gunners to engage only to have them fire as soon as the gun loads, not when they have the target lined up. however, contrary to your opinions i have seen shells explode near the targets and lighting them on fire

PhantomKira
03-16-2007, 04:13 PM
B24s: sometimes my first indication of their presence was a stick of bombs going off in the water nearby. Not hideously accurate, but should they hit, yeah, that's all she wrote. If they're in the area, I just dive.

relcox
03-17-2007, 06:59 AM
another question on the 37mm, I tried to join in on a surface attack and started manually firing the 37mm with AP loaded at a merchant but my shots did nothing to hurt it whatsoever, have seen previous threads where people have said it is effective against smaller vessels. Why wasn't mine?
GWX 1.02

Foehammer-1
03-17-2007, 08:22 AM
You absolutely HAVE to hit the waterline. Above and below does not work. Foe best results, come within like 10 meters and fire away. May be difficult task if it is wavy

relcox
03-17-2007, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by Foehammer-1:
You absolutely HAVE to hit the waterline. Above and below does not work. Foe best results, come within like 10 meters and fire away. May be difficult task if it is wavy

ok, cheers

klcarroll
03-17-2007, 12:31 PM
another question on the 37mm, I tried to join in on a surface attack and started manually firing the 37mm with AP loaded at a merchant but my shots did nothing to hurt it whatsoever, have seen previous threads where people have said it is effective against smaller vessels. Why wasn't mine?

I know that some of you may be tired of hearing me rant about this; ......but I'm going to do it again!

The effectiveness of the AA guns against smaller vessels is not "weighted" correctly. In the "real world", both the 20mm and 37mm guns are far more effective against the small stuff than the un-modified game allows.

When dealing with vessels up to 1900 tons or so, 200 300 rounds of 20mm or 50 100 rounds of 37mm should do the trick.

I am, of course, talking about well placed shots. As Foehammer pointed out, when dealing with small caliber fire, you have to be on target. Shooting 300 holes in a smokestack makes a harmonica; ....not a sinking!

When I use the AA guns against a ship, I usually pull to within 300 meters, so that the shots can be placed with precision. (.....And with the "Damage Mod", the show is pretty spectacular!)

Changing the shell values is easy: ....Just download the "SH3 Mini Tweaker" utility. Use it to open up the "SHELLS" "Tweak File", and you will be offered a menu of the different shells that are in use in the game: ....Just find the ones you wish to alter, and make the change! The sample listing below shows the stock numbers for the 37mm AP round:

MinEf = 2.5
MaxEf = 7
MinRadius = 0.5
MaxRadius = 3

I have found that the following modified numbers seem to give more realistic results:

MinEf = 4
MaxEf = 12
MinRadius = 1
MaxRadius = 6

One other thing: In real life, a 37mm AP round would probably go clean through an Armed Trawler, wasting much of it's energy in a big slash some miles away: ....Go with HE rounds, unless you're up against something that actually has significant armor, like a DD. (Adjust your HE values by similar percentages.)

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