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Objektskaya
04-08-2008, 09:34 PM
I've been flying IL-2 with my Saitek Cyborg Evo, but I don't think it's going to cut it.

I use left/right and up/down axes in the obvious way, and twist axis is rudder. The throttle lever is...well, the throttle. This leaves only buttons for trim. So, I have to click repeatedly and/or hold down the button (currently am using the hat switch) to make adjustments. Usually, this means I cannot adjust it fast enough, or get it over-adjusted, then have to correct.

Another problem is that, unlike in a real plane, trim doesn't affect the position of the stick at all. From prior experience in Cessna-172s, I recall that the wheel would stay put when trimmed properly. I could trim for level flight, or a certain rate of climb or descent, which was of course also associated with a certain power setting. Once I had the elevator trim dialed in, I didn't have to put any pressure on the wheel, either forward or back.

Since I'm relegated to using buttons for trim, and the stick always comes back to the same place, I can't easily make quick, accurate adjustments in trim. In the Cessna 172, I could put the wheel at the right amount of elevator, then trim until I felt the forces disappear. Can't do that with my Cyborg Evo.

So what's the solution? I imagine it would be some sort of force feedback-equipped stick, which could not only reproduce control pressures for feedback, but also would recenter itself in the pitch axis according to trim setting. It would have to have various analog inputs - thumbsticks, perhaps? - for the various trim axes. An axis for flaps would be nice, too. Some aircraft have discrete settings (takeoff, landing, and so on), but some also have flaps that are continuously variable. That is, you can set them at various angles between the "standard" settings. So, another axis for flap control also seems in order.

Ditto prop pitch. I've noticed many of the fighters have a lever in the cockpit, so you wouldn't necessarily be limited to 10% increments, as you are when using keys/joystick buttons.

So what controller has so many axes? It wouldn't hurt if it had a lot of extra buttons, for things like arrestor hook, cockpit lights, etc.

badatit
04-09-2008, 12:51 AM
x45 (http://www.airwarfare.com/AWX/features/reviews/x45_review.htm)

RAF74_Raptor
04-09-2008, 01:05 AM
Hello Bait where ya boys hiding at these days send me a PM

Urufu_Shinjiro
04-09-2008, 06:25 AM
Originally posted by badatit:
x45 (http://www.airwarfare.com/AWX/features/reviews/x45_review.htm)

I don't think you can find an X45 outside of ebay anymore. Take a look into the X52 or the Saitek or CH Products throttle quad.

Bearcat99
04-09-2008, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by Objektskaya:
I've been flying IL-2 with my Saitek Cyborg Evo, but I don't think it's going to cut it.

I use left/right and up/down axes in the obvious way, and twist axis is rudder. The throttle lever is...well, the throttle. This leaves only buttons for trim. So, I have to click repeatedly and/or hold down the button (currently am using the hat switch) to make adjustments. Usually, this means I cannot adjust it fast enough, or get it over-adjusted, then have to correct.

Another problem is that, unlike in a real plane, trim doesn't affect the position of the stick at all. From prior experience in Cessna-172s, I recall that the wheel would stay put when trimmed properly. I could trim for level flight, or a certain rate of climb or descent, which was of course also associated with a certain power setting. Once I had the elevator trim dialed in, I didn't have to put any pressure on the wheel, either forward or back.

Since I'm relegated to using buttons for trim, and the stick always comes back to the same place, I can't easily make quick, accurate adjustments in trim. In the Cessna 172, I could put the wheel at the right amount of elevator, then trim until I felt the forces disappear. Can't do that with my Cyborg Evo.

So what's the solution? I imagine it would be some sort of force feedback-equipped stick, which could not only reproduce control pressures for feedback, but also would recenter itself in the pitch axis according to trim setting. It would have to have various analog inputs - thumbsticks, perhaps? - for the various trim axes. An axis for flaps would be nice, too. Some aircraft have discrete settings (takeoff, landing, and so on), but some also have flaps that are continuously variable. That is, you can set them at various angles between the "standard" settings. So, another axis for flap control also seems in order.

Ditto prop pitch. I've noticed many of the fighters have a lever in the cockpit, so you wouldn't necessarily be limited to 10% increments, as you are when using keys/joystick buttons.

So what controller has so many axes? It wouldn't hurt if it had a lot of extra buttons, for things like arrestor hook, cockpit lights, etc.

Definitely some kind of HOTAS.. The Saiteks are good bang for the buck... I have yet to hear any complaints about CH stuff..

crucislancer
04-09-2008, 10:37 AM
I have the X52, it's a good buy, and has enough buttons and such to get you going. I have my elevator and rudder trim on the rotary dials on the throttle, and the prop pitch is on the slider. The only thing I really need to use the keyboard for is to bail out.

Capt.LoneRanger
04-09-2008, 10:54 AM
You mean the ultimate HOTAS?

Well, that is probably a Thrustmaster Cougar with UberMod2 and HALL Sensors. Costs about 1000$ all together. Ultimate, as you said. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

CH has some very nice flightgear. Programmability and durability are great, though the sticks are usually a bit long compared to the original and non-KingKong-sized hands. If you use them in a lowered position (Below your desk), that's no problem, though.
CH also doesn't look like much. It's made from plastics and it sometimes feels much too light to be able to control a heavy plane or jet. It also lacks any rotaries on the stick and throttle, which IMHO is the biggest flaw on this HOTAS.

Saitek's X52 and X52pro are great sticks, too. They have additional rotaries for Prop-pitch, flaps, trim or whatever, and a twist-stick for rudder. Especially the X52 looks rather like it's stolen from the Enterprise, than from a real plane, with all the lights and stuff, but you get a really good stick with good programmability for at least 1/2 the money of the basic CH and Cougar HOTAS.

Black_Ops7
04-09-2008, 11:03 AM
http://www.simcontrol.co.uk/offboard.htm

as real you are going to get behind your desk http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Chivas
04-09-2008, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Objektskaya:
I've been flying IL-2 with my Saitek Cyborg Evo, but I don't think it's going to cut it.

I use left/right and up/down axes in the obvious way, and twist axis is rudder. The throttle lever is...well, the throttle. This leaves only buttons for trim. So, I have to click repeatedly and/or hold down the button (currently am using the hat switch) to make adjustments. Usually, this means I cannot adjust it fast enough, or get it over-adjusted, then have to correct.

Another problem is that, unlike in a real plane, trim doesn't affect the position of the stick at all. From prior experience in Cessna-172s, I recall that the wheel would stay put when trimmed properly. I could trim for level flight, or a certain rate of climb or descent, which was of course also associated with a certain power setting. Once I had the elevator trim dialed in, I didn't have to put any pressure on the wheel, either forward or back.

Since I'm relegated to using buttons for trim, and the stick always comes back to the same place, I can't easily make quick, accurate adjustments in trim. In the Cessna 172, I could put the wheel at the right amount of elevator, then trim until I felt the forces disappear. Can't do that with my Cyborg Evo.

So what's the solution? I imagine it would be some sort of force feedback-equipped stick, which could not only reproduce control pressures for feedback, but also would recenter itself in the pitch axis according to trim setting. It would have to have various analog inputs - thumbsticks, perhaps? - for the various trim axes. An axis for flaps would be nice, too. Some aircraft have discrete settings (takeoff, landing, and so on), but some also have flaps that are continuously variable. That is, you can set them at various angles between the "standard" settings. So, another axis for flap control also seems in order.

Ditto prop pitch. I've noticed many of the fighters have a lever in the cockpit, so you wouldn't necessarily be limited to 10% increments, as you are when using keys/joystick buttons.

So what controller has so many axes? It wouldn't hurt if it had a lot of extra buttons, for things like arrestor hook, cockpit lights, etc.

Definitely some kind of HOTAS.. The Saiteks are good bang for the buck... I have yet to hear any complaints about CH stuff.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Bear

Just so you have heard one complaint. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I find the CH gimbals clunky when moving thru the XY axis. But not as bad as an unmodded Cougar. The Saitek and Microsoft gimbals are much smoother allowing for slightly more accuracy when shooting while moving thru the XY axis.


Backup's CH Fighterstick
Cougar Joystick
X52
Simped rudder pedals

Objektskaya
04-11-2008, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
You mean the ultimate HOTAS?

Well, that is probably a Thrustmaster Cougar with UberMod2 and HALL Sensors. Costs about 1000$ all together. Ultimate, as you said. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Please elaborate. I can barely find anything about this on the Web, and several of the more promising links Google came up with (to a page called Frugal's World) are broken.

Are you speaking of Hall effect sensors? How are they used, and why would you want one?

I haven't seen anything that combines the sheer versatility of the X52 setup with force feedback. That would be pretty sweet! It would address one of the main problems of flying an airplane on a PC, the complete lack of physical feedback through the controls. Control feel was quite important in flying the Cessna 172 and even T-37, especially in making trim adjustments. It's fairly easy to move the control to where it needs to be, then trim until it doesn't try to leave that position. With no force feedback, there's a lot more trial-and-error to get things dialed in just right.

Black_Ops7
04-11-2008, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by Objektskaya:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
You mean the ultimate HOTAS?

Well, that is probably a Thrustmaster Cougar with UberMod2 and HALL Sensors. Costs about 1000$ all together. Ultimate, as you said. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Please elaborate. I can barely find anything about this on the Web, and several of the more promising links Google came up with (to a page called Frugal's World) are broken.

Are you speaking of Hall effect sensors? How are they used, and why would you want one?

I haven't seen anything that combines the sheer versatility of the X52 setup with force feedback. That would be pretty sweet! It would address one of the main problems of flying an airplane on a PC, the complete lack of physical feedback through the controls. Control feel was quite important in flying the Cessna 172 and even T-37, especially in making trim adjustments. It's fairly easy to move the control to where it needs to be, then trim until it doesn't try to leave that position. With no force feedback, there's a lot more trial-and-error to get things dialed in just right. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Info on the Hall sensor mod:
http://www.cubpilotshangar.net/page26.html
http://www.cubpilotshangar.net

I believe this is what the uber nxt mod looks like. but i am not sure. I am also trying to get more info on it and waiting until furgasworld website is up again:
https://webspace.utexas.edu/joem/Nxt11-mod.jpg
http://www.hanskrohn.com/Overview/Cougar_Stick/Cougar_Joystick.htm

CloCloZ
04-12-2008, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by Objektskaya:
I've been flying IL-2 with my Saitek Cyborg Evo, but I don't think it's going to cut it.

I use left/right and up/down axes in the obvious way, and twist axis is rudder. The throttle lever is...well, the throttle. This leaves only buttons for trim. So, I have to click repeatedly and/or hold down the button (currently am using the hat switch) to make adjustments. Usually, this means I cannot adjust it fast enough, or get it over-adjusted, then have to correct.


I have a Saitek Evo Force (with FF) and I've mapped elevator trim on my mouse wheel: much easier to control than using buttons or keys.

Of course, all the other imperfections you mentioned remain (Evo's force feedback doesn't feel trim adjustments; however, it's helpful for other things, such as pre-stall warning).

Capt.LoneRanger
04-12-2008, 01:12 PM
frugalsworld is running fine. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

You will find all information you can ever want about the Cougar Hotas here, including all available mods etc. It IS a great stick and in many regards superior to the CH Product-HOTAS, but it has it's flaws. Besides some constructional flaws, like the really, really cheap potentiometers is the switch on the throttle that is mostly attached in a wrong angle.
The biggest flaw however is housemade: There are no drivers for Vista! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

http://cougar.frugalsworld.com/