View Full Version : I can't believe this

12-01-2007, 06:35 AM
I'm flying f4u Corsairs against the oldest, crappiest zeros available.
Still, I can't catch them, they're faster, they climb better, they don't bleed as much energy as I do, while I'm always at the edge of a stall, no matter how fast I fly.

Call me a noob, but this is driving me crazy! I perfectly know how to use CEM, I adjust my prop pitch constantly, I know how to use superchargers, and I've set up my joystick too:
0 4 8 14 22 30 42 53 65 80 100 0

Man, this is crazy. Any advices?

12-01-2007, 07:43 AM
Don't turn with them. Climb isn't the best idea either. Unless you are 5km and above.

I personally use my superior level speed (100kph advantage, you must be doing something wrong if you are not faster) to zoom above A6M's if the initial situation allows and am able to dictate the fight from there.

In a close dogfight, the A6M is in it's best envelope and about on par with the US birds. It doesn't matter if it's a m2 or m5, very little difference performance wise.

If you are desperate for success, take less fuel than you give him or fight against the floatplane or start with an advantage in the QMB. Proceed from there. Good luck!

12-01-2007, 07:45 AM
how fast I fly
so how fast do you fly and at what altitude?

12-01-2007, 11:16 AM
Thank you for your replies! I don't turn with them. I try to use my superior level speed, but I'm just not fast enough.
I usually fight between 6000 and 15000 feet.
Maybe it's my prop pitch settings?
I use 100 for climbing, sometimes 95. when I dive, I set it to 0 for better acceleraton. For speeds above 240, and altitudes above 12000 feet I reduce it to 90, or sometimes 80. I must be doing it completely wrong... ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

12-01-2007, 11:22 AM
Don't set your PP to 0 when diving.
If you dive to gain some serious speed you have to powerdive.

12-01-2007, 11:22 AM
Trim and then trim some more. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
Keep your eye on "the ball" and Trim.

12-01-2007, 11:28 AM
are you fighting the zeros online or offline?

12-01-2007, 11:36 AM
From my understanding, the most horsepower is at the top of the RPM range whether you're climbing, diving, at any speed. So you should stick to 100% or 95% prop pitch (which is really just your RPM setting in most planes) in combat.
While cruising, you can lower the RPM for better fuel economy or cooling, but in combat, you want to push that engine to its limits. Don't forget to close cowl flaps when chasing or diving, and then open them when climbing.
And check the IL-2 manual for the supercharger stage altitudes. Ideally, you don't want combat at the altitudes where you switch between supercharger stages becuase at one stage the manifold pressure is a little too high, at the other stage, its a bit too low.

12-01-2007, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by GregGal:
while I'm always at the edge of a stall, no matter how fast I fly.


Man, this is crazy. Any advices?

Get you nose down (most important), learn to trim and possibly check your flaps.

That first bit I quoted above is frankly pretty hard to believe -as written-.
I might think that you're talking about -in hard turns- if you hadn't written "always".

Simple question, what speeds IAS are you reaching?

I say that even without any consideration of the other planes, you can't be flying the
P-38 correctly and always be on the edge of stall.

12-01-2007, 11:49 AM
Yes, cowl flaps closed indeed.
I reach about 220 miles an hour while level flying. Canopy closed. I guess I'll have to use more trimming, and avoid 0 prop pitch. Gosh, it would be easier with a throttle quadrant for the prop. I'm using my hat switch at the moment.

As far as stalls go.. my plane seems to rock violently for every little move. Like it had no weight. I think there should be a certain speed, where the aircraft would manouver correctly...hmm... Is something wrong with my joy settings I wrote in my first post?

12-01-2007, 12:42 PM
The answer to the mystery is: they are ace level AI Zeros. Which means, TIE Fighters.

Try the other way: fly a Zero against ace AI Corsairs. You'll discover the Corsairs are now much better and you can't imitate the wonderful maneuvers the Zeros did when they were AI.

To make tactics work like in real life, you'll have to face human opponents, for the AI cheating is 'in your face' all the time, in this sim.

12-02-2007, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by GregGal:
Maybe it's my prop pitch settings?
I use 100 for climbing, sometimes 95. when I dive, I set it to 0 for better acceleraton. For speeds above 240, and altitudes above 12000 feet I reduce it to 90, or sometimes 80. I must be doing it completely wrong... ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Anywahy this seems to0 agreessive PP use to me. In dive, I think you are not supposed to put it lower than 60-70% at the bottom of your dive. For climbing, try using 100%. Level flight with sufficent speed can change to 95% or 90%, not 80%.

Watch the RPM and keep listening to the engine sounds - your engine should NOT lose RPM. The PP will not make the engine stronger, it can only allow excesss engine power to be put into more propeller thrust. If you don't have that extra power in your engine that you expect, you will hear the RPM drop - at that moment you should increase your PP (from "coarse" to "fine").

*edit* if no success, post a track (.ntrk) from your flight, it's easier to spot the problem that way.

*edit* climb at 100% of course

12-02-2007, 12:52 AM
Did you mean to tell him to climb at 0%?

12-02-2007, 01:22 AM
Thank you for your replies!
It seems I used excessive prop pitch management. Doing what you told me and trimming my kite does help a lot indeed.
Although, someone mentioned the uber perfection of AI pilots. Sadly I can't do anything, for I have a slow internet connection, so I'm an offline player.

Thank you once again!

12-02-2007, 01:44 AM
I've tried that myself and did not find it easy. It was either a very short fight (a few lucky hits on the first passes) or a very long one (with repeated separations).

12-02-2007, 02:34 AM
I have also tried this and failed to kill a Zero -admittedly only gave it 5 minutes...but just to confirm it aint THAT easy.I was applying traditional energy tactics and trimming etc....

12-02-2007, 06:12 AM
With the F4U at the altitudes you are flying at you should be in Supercharger stage 2. I know the 'manuel' says to switch to stage 2 at 8K, but it really starts to help at just a bit over 5K. Just trim for a climb and watch the MP and RPM guages and switch back and forth between S1 and S2 at 4800 -6000 to see what I mean.

You can extend on a Zero but you need to do it with a SHALLOW right hand climbing turn.

As for speed, if you are at the edge of a stall all the time, you are using WAY too much elevator, and getting too high an AoA. You need to be gentle on the elevator, and don't try 'pylon turns' at higher altitudes. You just can't do that. Take tracks and review them from the F2 view. If you are seeing a lot of vapor trails from the wingtips, you are at too high an AoA, and that is bad news for a plane like the Zair. Keep it fast, extend, and make the Zero fight YOUR fight. If you try to Turn n Burn with a Zero, you WILL be toast.

One thing that would really help is to fly the Late model P-51's for a bit. With the way Oleg set their CG too far aft, they have VERY nasty stall charastics, and if you learn to fly the '51 with a minimum of stalls/spins, it will really help you with all the other BnZers.

Just my $0.02 and I hope it helps a bit.

12-02-2007, 06:18 AM
Historical perspective: The Zero was an excellent turning fighter and had a great climb rate due to the relatively light airframe coupled with a good engine. The Corsair is a much heavier aircraft due to heavier construction, armor plating, and a heavy load of ammunition and fuel. The Zero was most nimble and fastest at lower altitudes. The Corsair had the advantage from about 15,000 feet or higher where the three stage supercharger in the Corsair could be used to greater effect as well as the larger wing surface of the Corsair. Corsair pilots learned that a turning fight with a Zero could quickly end in disaster. Corsair pilots prefered slashing attacks from above whenever possible.

Game perspective: It's not much different in Il2. Down low the Zero can own a Corsair pilot, regardless of the Zero being AI or human. Go high and it takes a well skilled Zero pilot to win against the Corsair. Get into a turning or climbing battle and the Corsair will lose. Keep your speed and altitude advantage over the Zero at all times, let the fight come to you, never go low to engage a Zero.

12-02-2007, 07:00 AM
I stopped playing off line campaigns long time ago because of uber AIs.. it is too sad to se what AI has become.. really don't know from what patch.. but is was some time ago..

Last campaign i have played was I believe from one of great campaign makers and it was in Mediterranean.. I was in Hurricane and they were in FIAT CR2s... (yes the biplanes..)

and I could NOT catch them in level flight, i could not OUT DIVE them (once i have dived form 6k to the deck and they were ALL THE TIME behind me and when we got to the deck they CACHED me and sniped me AND went straight up!!!) - that was it. I exited the campaign and never ever played an off line game of IL2.

12-02-2007, 08:06 AM
The AI has got quite a bit better over the years, but it still has some show-stopping behaviour. As far as I can tell it now:

Uses the same FM as the player (which it didn't always)
Doesn't break up at high speed
Is always in perfect trim
Never overheats
Always knows where you are
Can see through clouds
Has no idea how to take a deflection shot
Never gets bored of defensive diving barrel rolls - even in something as large as a Bf-110

The Ace AI level is so good that it's as if it's flying a different A/C. The "average" setting is much closer to the player's aircraft performance. Because it always knows where the player is, if I try and fly B'n'Z vs the AI with the AI flying a turn fighter then the combat often degenerates into a series of head-on passes. Mind you, IRL that would sometimes happen.





12-10-2007, 12:21 PM
I have the opposite problem with the AI - IT`S TOO EASY!!
I`m a comparative novice, don`t know about prop pitch, mix etc and yet i can usually cream the AI. Different matter online, I`m the one who gets shot down monotously.
If anyone can tell me how to make the AI tougher, please do. I use Ace settings for both the AI and myself, fly same planes and can usually get a shot in within 2-3 turns. Bo-ring!
(new 1946 installed a month ago on XP)

12-10-2007, 01:12 PM
Macduff... Set your difficulty setting to realistic in your qmb. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

12-16-2007, 05:44 PM
thanks buzzsaw 1939,
have now tried this, but even with everything turned on/realistic except for cockpit view still same situation, except that not having the padlock is slightly traumatic and limited ammo makes the fight last a lot longer!
Actually I suppose I can view it as gunnery training, since while getting on the tail of the AI plane is relatively easy, he then does all that `flying thing` which makes shooting him down a lot harder than most of the stuff I see online.
So it would be good to keep my version of AI AND have the harder one people are complaining about, to get some dodging practice. can`t have everything i guess. Still, my gunnery is improving noticeably. no good getting on someone`s tail and blowing all your ammo without hitting the bandit I supppose.

12-16-2007, 10:27 PM
Macduff... I'm wondering if you have it set right, it shouldn't be as easy as you say, unless your a natural! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Just to make sure you understand the realistic setting, click on the button shown here, then you can set your preferances where you want.

good hunting!


12-17-2007, 09:04 AM
Anyway, I never said that fighting the AI was hard, what I say is that their behavior is unrealistic and do weird things the real counterpart couldn't do, breaking immersion.

12-19-2007, 04:12 PM
yep thats the one, buzzsaw 1939. everything on except cockpit view.
Actually thinking about it it does mean i am learning how to shoot, which is good.
Natural, hah, I wouldnt be getting shot down every 20 seconds online if that was the case :-)