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FlitGun
02-07-2005, 04:58 PM
<S all, scanned for this topic, must have been discussed before, couldn't see it, here is my version:

I fly a 190a9, when possible I fly it higher and faster than the enemy. When I lose my advantage and find a fighter behind me I try to outrun him. I don't compete in turn-fighting simply because my aircraft is not up to it. I might make a decision to leave the battlefield, B line for home. I like to survive the battle, live another day, fight the next. Of course I get blown to buggery as often as anyone else, but I try to avoid it when I can.

This is when a spit or la7 or similar aircraft says "come back and fight!" Now this is my point. If one of these things is less than 2km behind me and i try to turn into him, it's all over for me. I don't fly for other pilots' satisfaction. For me, the situation is a stalemate.

Why then should I endure accusing remarks when i don't tumble and stall in the gunsights of dogfighters? I don't ask pilots to keep still while i try and blow their wings off at 850km/h, why should I do what they demand?

What say all of you?

FlitGun
02-07-2005, 04:58 PM
&lt;S all, scanned for this topic, must have been discussed before, couldn't see it, here is my version:

I fly a 190a9, when possible I fly it higher and faster than the enemy. When I lose my advantage and find a fighter behind me I try to outrun him. I don't compete in turn-fighting simply because my aircraft is not up to it. I might make a decision to leave the battlefield, B line for home. I like to survive the battle, live another day, fight the next. Of course I get blown to buggery as often as anyone else, but I try to avoid it when I can.

This is when a spit or la7 or similar aircraft says "come back and fight!" Now this is my point. If one of these things is less than 2km behind me and i try to turn into him, it's all over for me. I don't fly for other pilots' satisfaction. For me, the situation is a stalemate.

Why then should I endure accusing remarks when i don't tumble and stall in the gunsights of dogfighters? I don't ask pilots to keep still while i try and blow their wings off at 850km/h, why should I do what they demand?

What say all of you?

Tully__
02-07-2005, 05:01 PM
Ignore those remarks, they're just annoyed coz you're flying smarter than they are.

Yimmy
02-07-2005, 05:04 PM
You would be stupid not to fly in a manner suited to the aircrft.

Boom and Zooming sure does annoy some people, me included a bit, but then people dont have to fly the slower dogfighters.

Hence why imo the best servers either have early, or late war aircraft. Not both.

horseback
02-07-2005, 05:16 PM
You're doing the right thing. Most of the time, the people you compete against are going to think that you're one of two things: a doormat or an A-hole.

If I have to be one or the other, guess which one I'd pick.

cheers

horseback

Chuck_Older
02-07-2005, 05:18 PM
Question:

A bunch of guys call you a wimp because you won't do something they want you to do. Are you a wimp for

A. refusing to do it?

B. doing what they want you to do?

Answer's simple.

Stackhouse25th
02-07-2005, 05:20 PM
first of all the 190s are kinda a bomber attacker. i think its the lack of germanys 'turn fighting' aircraft that cost them a lot of pilots.

when someone says come back and u are flying off, you are in a bomber attacking plane, and they are in a fighter attacking plane. the two sides get confused, its normal...but you should at least have some working knowledge of turn fighting. If you have enough knowledge you can split S (if you're good) that 190 to any of the fighters.

icrash
02-07-2005, 05:22 PM
(Master Yoda immitation) To the strengths of your aicraft you must fly. Seriously though, just ignore them, they just don't like smart pilots just easy marks.

BlackShrike
02-07-2005, 05:27 PM
stackhouse most pilots and all aces pretty much refused to turn fight as its considered suicide to get in a big furball and slow down and turn. in real life you would never do it nor i.

my point is that superior turning fighters like spits really didnt hold much of an advantage. and planes like jugs with inferior turn radius did fantastic vs superior turning german planes.

second in game if under 2k away a 190 chooses to split S and re engage a spit or LA7 chasing it then that FW is probably dead almost guaranteed.

VW-IceFire
02-07-2005, 06:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FlitGun:
&lt;S all, scanned for this topic, must have been discussed before, couldn't see it, here is my version:

I fly a 190a9, when possible I fly it higher and faster than the enemy. When I lose my advantage and find a fighter behind me I try to outrun him. I don't compete in turn-fighting simply because my aircraft is not up to it. I might make a decision to leave the battlefield, B line for home. I like to survive the battle, live another day, fight the next. Of course I get blown to buggery as often as anyone else, but I try to avoid it when I can.

This is when a spit or la7 or similar aircraft says "come back and fight!" Now this is my point. If one of these things is less than 2km behind me and i try to turn into him, it's all over for me. I don't fly for other pilots' satisfaction. For me, the situation is a stalemate.

Why then should I endure accusing remarks when i don't tumble and stall in the gunsights of dogfighters? I don't ask pilots to keep still while i try and blow their wings off at 850km/h, why should I do what they demand?

What say all of you? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Those pilots that are saying such things are the ones who are the cowards. They want you to fight when you are at a disadvantage. Ignore them...heck thumb your nose at them from your cockpit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Any Spitfire pilot worth his salt...any Spitfire pilot who actually flies the plane for the love of the plane (regardless of performance) will never complain that a FW190 pilot outran him.

Ijnpilot
02-07-2005, 09:40 PM
Nothing coward-like about your actions. If I did the diving thing in a Zero I would be shot to scrap. The sim has a way of balancing things out. I personally wouldn't complain about a pilot doing what you do. If I can't shoot you down, that my own fault for not using my aircraft's advantages.

Soulyss
02-07-2005, 10:46 PM
Ok here's the flip side... so what if you get shot down? I mean we all try to "win" the fight that's the kinda the point as I see it. But so what if you lose? it's not like there's any real penalty other than a hurt ego. Also if you run from a fight when you find yourself at a disadvantage it's hard to improve. You learn from your mistakes and failures more so than your success. I fly Aces High for my MP simming and PF for my SP most the time, and I used to fly the P-51's a lot and I would run for it when I got caught at a disadvantage... and I learned squat about dogfighting. Later I switched up to a F6F and in a month in that plane I had learned more about ACM than a year in the P-51 just because I couldn't just put the nose down anymore, there wasn't an easy out.

I'm not trying to judge, we're all here to have fun, and I'm not trying to tell anyone how to do that, I guess from my point of view the fight is where the fun is not the "living".

fordfan25
02-07-2005, 10:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tully__:
Ignore those remarks, they're just annoyed coz you're flying smarter than they are. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



bingo.

Duncan_Doenitz
02-07-2005, 11:57 PM
One thing more to consider though.

You are part of a team effort. Obviously if the pilot chasing you is taunting and trying to coax you to fight, he has no other target of opportunity at the moment. But if you leave the scene, be careful that you don't leave your team mates to die simply because they are short one pilot.

At least use team chat to coordinate with the friendlies. It adds to the fun, and thats the whole point after all.

Dunc

carguy_
02-08-2005, 03:42 AM
The plane has several disadvantages which aren`t real.At this point the FW190 is very good for outrunning other planes.

Give us realistic FW190 FM,we`ll talk.

BTW you ever wonder why don`t VVS pilots never go higher than 4000m?

Indianer.
02-08-2005, 06:35 AM
Run run run.

Do u remember the FW190 in CFS1? that used to really annoy me in my little Hurri.

Seriously tho, I always run get some distance then go for the head-on shot, that really p*****s them off.

FlitGun
02-08-2005, 12:38 PM
...reading the responses, some interesting points.

I'm glad some pilots see things my way. (To you): "don't they know the 190 is a lumbering **** when u wrench it around down there like that?"

I'm also glad some pilots expressed alternative views.

To Carguy, who said 'give us a realistic 190'. Give us realistic trees too please. The day a flight sim ever reaches the seemingly infinity of 'perfection' will be after my death.

To Duncan_Doenitz, rgrt, remember team mates.

Soulyss' point stood out. On the 'ego' thing: I don't think I have a problem with dying, I am a good loser. And the game is exciting when it is explosive. But don't you ever get that natural urge to want to 'go home' and live, land the plane, switch off the engine, maybe even turn off the cockpit lights and then wish the 190 had a sliding canopy? I sometimes desire this feeling more than watching my aircraft explode into little pieces (although this is spectacular i agree).

As for 'not being able to improve...when not fighting at disadvantage', fair enough, there is that. There's always something to learn. I don't think choosing another plane is quite the right way, I am posting this as a 190 pilot, I have very different outlooks on air combat when I am seated in other aircraft. So any improvements made would be those in DOGFIGHTING. I believe I read somewhere that the 190 was one of the first 'interceptors' whose combat style resembled that of next generation fighter aircraft. The small spacial sphere of dogfighting just gets a hell of a lot bigger when the 190 is at its best.

Salute to you all gents, a pleasure to discuss - difficult to type my opinions when trying to fly a plane in a battle you know. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

NORAD_Zooly10
02-08-2005, 03:36 PM
i have had complaints about how i choose to fly and the tactics that i employ, it used to bother me but now i say stuff 'em. i fly how i want and not how anyone thinks i should.
~S~
Zooly

Flydutch
02-08-2005, 04:31 PM
I think the highest scoring Ace of all times, Erich Hartman with 352 arial victorys would have made A Un-Sportif, Unfair Impression on some his Oponents & Victims for this Expert would only attack A enemy if everything was to his advantage and against his oponent!
He would dive down on his prey when he had A Height advantage, Would only shoot from point blank range (Where hittingpower was most effective and hard to miss the object)He would never turn with A enemy (There where excelent turn or "Dogfighters" in the Luftwaffe these where refered to as 'muscle fighters'while he was A typical Tactical 'Head Fighter')
He would never give his enemy A shot opertunity Althoug he was downed 13 times because of enemy A/C exploding extremly close to his own.
When his blacktulip nose art became to much of a warning sign for his foes they started to flee at the sight of his A/C (Unsportif?)so he he gave his Aircaft to his wing man who enjoyd Perfect protection In this while the anominous "wing man was the Real Danger! (Ouch that most have been realy frustrating behavior!)

Soulyss
02-08-2005, 08:26 PM
I guess I wasn't clear, I wasn't tell anyone changing A/C, fly what you want to fly, and sure there is a satisfaction of landing your sortie. For myself I changed A/C and ended up having more fun than I thought I would, but to each their own. But at the same time there's the satisfaction of a hard fought battle, even if you do lose in the end. The trick to me at least is finding the balance.

Maj_Death
02-08-2005, 10:02 PM
I have actually been banned from a server for refusing to turn fight an I-153 in my Fw-190F8 loaded down with 700kg of bombs. This was of course after numerous nasty remarks on the part of the I-153 trying to kill me (happened to be the host's squad mate). I politely informed him that I was flying ground attack and even if I wasn't, my plane was not suited for turn fighting a bipe or even most monoplanes. He rejected this and considered it cowardness. Instead of pounding the hell out of his airbase I was supposed to get my *ss kicked just because my plane couldn't turn as well as his. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

When you play any game, flight sim or any other genre, my suggestion is to ignore what all other players say and play how you want. You bought the game, you installed it and you payed for the internet connection to play it online. F*ck what anyone else thinks. If you get banned from a server for it, go to one that is hosted by someone with similer views to your own or open your own. Now in regards to the lagitamacy of B&Z, it is a perfectly honorable tactic. There are many ways to defeat a B&Zer just as there are many ways to defeat a T&Ber. If a T&Ber can't defeat a B&Zer then he is either a rookie or simply sucks at the whole flying thing. I for example can take an Fw-190A9 and kick the **** out of I-16's and then take an I-16 and kick the **** out of Fw-190A9's. I know how to defeat T&B with B&Z and vice versa. Most players with some experience with this flight sim or others can do the same. It is only the rookies or those who limit themselves to playing with very few other players that will have severe problems in disimiler air combat.

In short, from the sounds of it you flew well and the other guy couldn't stand going 5 minutes without someone exploding. I suggest ignoring those guys, they are better off playing MOH.

Monson74
02-09-2005, 01:47 AM
Well, a little taunting is ok with me but getting kicked & banned for being smart isn't cool - we've seen it all before - I mean Socrates got sentenced too death because of his intellectual capacities, right? I have in my time with the IL2-series recieved numerous insults & even threats from people running out of ammo & ramming eachother trying to bring down a faster plane - some folks think it's their right to win every time.

EnGaurde
02-09-2005, 06:54 AM
you are not a coward.

you are a smart, tactical SOB.

losers whine... when they realise they cant win and have been outsmarted.

dont rely too much on the quality of online opponents.... *spit*

winners dont have cause to complain? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

TROOPER117
02-09-2005, 07:47 AM
FlitGun, you sound like you are trying to play the sim in a realistic manner! German fighter tactics of the time were generaly governed by the performance of the aircraft type and the what the enemy were attempting to achieve and with what.
Late in the war the allied daylight bomber offensive was being countered by the Germans at one stage by using aircraft to attack head on and break up the bombers formation and therefore diminish their defensive capability. One aircraft idealy suited to this role was the FW190!
The role of taking on the bombers fighter escort would then fall to the Bf109's flying above as top cover. Meanwhile, the main attack group would have recovered from a fast downward turn, hopefully regained altitude and maintained energy, and if ammunition remained, come around for another go!
I'm sure you know all of this mate, but for some of the boneheads who give you grief its maybe worth pointing out!
Its great to know that someone understands the capabilities and limits of the aircraft they love to fly.
Don't get me wrong, for the guys that just want to go up there and shoot hell out of something without worrying about the tactics or parameters involved, good luck to them! But I hope they try to understand where others are coming from too!!
maybe I'll find you during one of my fighter sweeps mate. (I'm normaly on the opposing side though)
Regards..... Dave S

WWSensei
02-09-2005, 08:06 AM
When I am taunted I always offer to land and let them strafe me. I mean if they are going to insist I fight at a disadvantage why not go all the way?

If they decline the offer I then ask the send me $50 to pay for my version of the game. After all, if they insist on telling me how to fly the least they could do is buy the game for me...right?

If they decline Option 2 I then respond with Option 3....STFU.

Cess-SGTRoc
02-09-2005, 09:52 AM
Coward ? NO. Smart YES.
Do not worry I get the same and I just keep on flying the way my aircraft flys best. Smart pilots almost always come back, Not many Old Bold Pilots come back.
Mostly because there are not many Old Bold Pilots left to come back. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Spitf_ACE
02-09-2005, 11:47 AM
FlitGun,

You'd better not use those cowardly tactics when you are near me! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

I will moan and whine about what a 'loser' you are, and I won't stop until I get my way! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

pmckelvy
02-09-2005, 04:08 PM
If any of you play WWIIOL you might agree. To see a thread like this and have the unanimous respose be "no way you're flying smart" is refreshing. Over there it's constant flames about your lame tactics or lamenting over how much better your plane is than mine. After all, I got shot down by you so only two possibilities exist:

1.your plane is WAY better than mine.

2.your tactics are cowardly and possibly borderline cheating.

Kudos guys, just an obsevation.

Mac out