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general_kalle
12-13-2007, 03:50 AM
which version of the 109 do you think is best performing?

not just climbing or turning or so but overall

is it the sleek F4?
or the lightweight G10?

general_kalle
12-13-2007, 03:50 AM
which version of the 109 do you think is best performing?

not just climbing or turning or so but overall

is it the sleek F4?
or the lightweight G10?

Ratsack
12-13-2007, 05:01 AM
1. Do you mean in reality or in this game?

2. Do you mean best in absolute terms, or in relation to its contemporary German stable mates?

3. Do you mean best in absolute terms, or in relation to its contemporary Soviet and Allied enemies?

4. Or are you just trolling?

cheers,
Ratsack

cawimmer430
12-13-2007, 05:11 AM
For me ingame it's the F-4/G-2. Fast, accurate 20mm cannon and maneuvrable enough. I rarely fly the anything past the G-6 like the G-10, G-14 and K-4 since they're so heavy and just don't feel as agile.

micksaf
12-13-2007, 05:21 AM
....the Me 109 Z .... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

....cause it's the last letter of the alphabet .. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

RegRag1977
12-13-2007, 08:39 AM
G10/G14 would be more useful with 20mm. With the 30 you're obliged to come too close to the target, where your maneuvrability will start to become a serious disadvantage (WWS esp.).

In the other hand the über stick force will make your hit and run tactics difficult without slider or rotary... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

general_kalle
12-13-2007, 11:30 AM
ah. i forgot to make my meaning clear.

in game and compared to all the other 109s's

which is best.

sorry for not being clear.


and i dont know what "just trolling" means

Kurfurst__
12-13-2007, 01:48 PM
I, like others, would go with the G-1/G-2. It was an excellent performer in real life, both compared to it`s contemporary domestic and foreign competitors, and a logical improvement over the F series, a refinement in almost every way.

It was also an excellent performer in Il-2.

F0_Dark_P
12-13-2007, 02:18 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

I am with Kurfurst http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Whirlin_merlin
12-13-2007, 02:28 PM
In game and in terms of pure flying pleasure the 'Freddie' is loverly, sometimes I fire up IL2 and take it for a free flight just to make me smile.

Divine-Wind
12-13-2007, 02:31 PM
The G-2 feels the best to me. I don't know if it is the best or not (General concensus says it and/or the F-4 is perfect), but I like its firepower, manueverability, speed, etc. It's like the perfect mix between all of those, in my opinion.

JSG72
12-13-2007, 03:27 PM
In game and most likely reality the G-2 is the best flyer. although armament is slightly lacking. (I just love the MK 108 cannon.

I mostly do, Bomber destroyer missions.)

You would find that the F-4 was considered best because the opposition was overall inferior. at the time.'41-'42

JG52Uther
12-13-2007, 03:41 PM
I have always loved the Emil. In early war scenarios its a great aircraft.
I also seem to do better with wing mounted armament.

na85
12-13-2007, 03:54 PM
A lot of people underestimate the Emil, but in early-war scenarios, you can definitely deliver a satisfying punch with those wing mounted cannons. Are they 20mm?

Stiletto-
12-13-2007, 04:08 PM
I picked the K4, it is a very powerful machine, and its climb rate is phenominal, partly due to overmodelling. I dunno if any late war fighter can climb as good as it can, a P-47 might be faster at high altitudes, and Mustangs at mid altitudes, but if you are chasing someone above you or trying to get away, the 109K has a serious safety cushion as long as you are climbing and have the MW50 enabled.

It is not the most balanced aircraft though, for sheer joy to fly and for performance relative to enemy aircraft of the same timeframe, you have to love the F4 and G2 models, there really is nothing you can have a big gripe with on these aircraft.

JSG72
12-13-2007, 04:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stiletto-:
I picked the K4, it is a very powerful machine, and its climb rate is phenominal, partly due to overmodelling. I dunno if any late war fighter can climb as good as it can, a P-47 might be faster at high altitudes, and Mustangs at mid altitudes, but if you are chasing someone above you or trying to get away, the 109K has a serious safety cushion as long as you are climbing and have the MW50 enabled.

It is not the most balanced aircraft though, for sheer joy to fly and for performance relative to enemy aircraft of the same timeframe, you have to love the F4 and G2 models, there really is nothing you can have a big gripe with on these aircraft. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Climb rate was about the only advantage the K4 had over allied fighters. It is however a fairly dead in the water advantage within dogfights as anyone who bounces you would be going faster anyway. Sooo the alternative would be to dive? and get caught hands down by a P-47.
Or Turn and be caught by a P-51/Spitfire.YAK-3 and AHEM! How many LA-7s can you ever beat.

The F-4 and G-2 were within game and RL the best because the opposition just weren't as good Spit MKV, Hurricane 11C, P-40, LAGG-1s3and 7s MIG-1s and 3s. Were all inferior and I feel this is reflected to be honest, in game .
The introduction of the P-38 didn't phase this superiority. Nor even quite the introduction of the MKIX Spit. However the P-47 and the P-51 along with the LA5 and YAK 9 went a long way to redress the balance.. Perhaps with less experienced pilots at first. But later on?

109s WATCH OUT! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

JG53_Valantine
12-13-2007, 05:32 PM
BF109G2 is my favourite http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Plus it's what my squad flies primarily.
V

Polyperhon
12-13-2007, 07:03 PM
For pure combat performance, each subsequent version of the 109 was better.So if you are talking about combat performance, of course is the K-4.Indeed,I think that this is the definite '109 and the one I prefer.The power is so massive and way it accelerates, climbs and dives is breathtaking.And of course in dive is very competitive because it builds up speed in a breath-taking manner so in the critical initial stages of a dive (and not in the 900~km/h region) it can get away from -almost- every opponent.Still, no matter what people might say, it still is contrallable and a plane that someone can rely on, still able to loop in this marvellous '109 way, still able to do some violent moves in high angles of attack and be controlable,still there is stall warning and stall recovery, all the nice bits of the '109 are there.And no matter what is the general impression, still turns tighter in low/medium speeds than all late-war American fighters, even if low-level fight with some late-war british and soviet fighters is a different story.
However , yes there is something that really sets it apart from the F-4/G-2: The pilot needs more skill/experience to turn all these extra things that K-4 gives into a real combat advantage.In the initial stages of an engagement, a shallow dive can give easily 700km/h so try to get behind a target at that speed and shoot it down with the slow-muzzle Mk108 is a particularly demanding task, since at that speed K-4 loses its agility advantage so miss a shot and pass your target (so have him at your 6) can be easy.Indeed K-4 lost a bit of the delicacy and perfect balance of the F4/G2 which are a delight to fly (like the spitfire) so for the average novice late-war pilot I wonder if all this extra power helped them survive a bit longer,however is far from being a unpleasant beast.
Watch out this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tO5Hj0_PB14&feature=related
Please watch the way the pilot lands on the first landing....now if anyone knows about real flying...no comment.Be aware that he flies an early G-6, with an old-style canopy and the small rudder, which is considered the worst version of all '109s (almost as heavy as the K-4, powerful like the G-2 and having worst aerodynamics than both).

Stiletto-
12-13-2007, 08:12 PM
JSG72, I thoroughly agree with you.. When I fly the K4 on realistic servers such as Warclouds or Spits Vs 109s, I am constantly scanning the sky for blips.. The worst thing to happen in a K4 is to get jumped on from above, but if on fairly equal ground and some room to climb you can gain some good advantage.. If I see a stanger far away, not knowing if he is on my side or if he is the enemy, or if he see's me, I immediatley turn up my throttle and do what the K4 does best, I climb up a weighs until I can recon the situation at an advantage.

FlatSpinMan
12-14-2007, 07:34 AM
I'm with Uther and na85 - the Emil. Those wing cannon hit hard and are somehow far easier to hit with than the nose mounted ones of the F's and G's. When I finally get on to the next Jedermann campaign I'm going to miss the Emil.

RegRag1977
12-14-2007, 07:44 AM
The Jedermann campaign was awsome! (the mission with the landing near the ruins in the desert is among my best IL2 memories!)

Thanks for it FlatSpinMan!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gifHave i well understood that there would be a following episode http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

mortoma
12-14-2007, 03:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ratsack:
1. Do you mean in reality or in this game?

2. Do you mean best in absolute terms, or in relation to its contemporary German stable mates?

3. Do you mean best in absolute terms, or in relation to its contemporary Soviet and Allied enemies?

4. Or are you just trolling?

cheers,
Ratsack </div></BLOCKQUOTE>????Uh....what????

Ratsack
12-14-2007, 11:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ratsack:
1. Do you mean in reality or in this game?

2. Do you mean best in absolute terms, or in relation to its contemporary German stable mates?

3. Do you mean best in absolute terms, or in relation to its contemporary Soviet and Allied enemies?

4. Or are you just trolling?

cheers,
Ratsack </div></BLOCKQUOTE>????Uh....what???? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

C'mon, the longest word there is 'contemporary', and it's only got five syllables. Just move your lips slower. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

cheers,
Ratsack

general_kalle
12-15-2007, 04:54 AM
yea. even i understood it.

anyway thanks for the votes and the reply's. was helpful.

Xiolablu3
12-15-2007, 11:01 AM
Vs the contemporary opposition, its got to be the 109F4.

Its the best planein the game in 1941 planesets.

If there is a G2 then its 1942 and there is also a FW190A4 which is superior IMO, better high speed control which means better B&Z.

So I vote with the 109F4 as the best overall Bf109 when compared to its contemporaries. It seriously rules on 1941 maps vs any opposition. Closest to it is the Spit V, but even that cant really compete in anything except a hard turning dogfight. Use any other tactic and the 109F4 wins out easily. Climb/Dive/Roll/Top Speed/etc etc

I love flying the Bf109F4 in 1941. One of my favourite planes, and certainly my favourite in 1941.

Xiolablu3
12-15-2007, 03:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cawimmer430:
For me ingame it's the F-4/G-2. Fast, accurate 20mm cannon and maneuvrable enough. I rarely fly the anything past the G-6 like the G-10, G-14 and K-4 since they're so heavy and just don't feel as agile. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I totally agree with Christian about the later 109's.

Such a small plane does not take the extra weight so well and just makes the high speed control of the elevator poor. Also the added speed of the late versions makes the problem even worse.

The Me109F4 is fine for high speed manouvres in 1941 becasue its lighter and combat is generally happening at lower speeds than late war. In fact I dont find the heavy elevator/general manouverability a problem at all in the 109E/109F versions.

Its FW190 all the way from early 1943 on, and usually even in 1942. Particlularly when fighting Spitfire MkV's, a well flown Bf109F4/G2 generally owns the Spit V, but the FW190 REALLY owns it x2. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

1941 is a great year if you want to own Spitfires in a Bf109 since at this point in the war, the Bf109 was ahead in general fighting ability. In the first half of WW2 (1939-42) before it got the extra weight, and speeds for combat were not too high, there can be no disputing that the Bf109 was either THE best or joint best fighter plane in the world.

If Storm of War Bf109E's vs Spitfire Mk1's is anything like IL2's Bf109F4 vs Spitfire MkV, (probably with the Spitfire being a little closer in performance to the Emil than the MkV is to the Freidrich in IL2) then I am going to absolutely love it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif