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Vollendung
08-23-2009, 03:19 PM
I don't understand why nobody ask such a question (or maybe I haven't seen yet).
I don't really understand why there is no enemy u-boats whom I can fight with besides ships and aircrafts
ADD ENEMY SUBMERSIBLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tuddley3
08-23-2009, 10:46 PM
First of all, you wouldn't want enemy U-boats, because they are on the same side. You would want British subs, but I'm not sure how historically accurate sub to sub combat was back in WWII.

Now, if there was a game portraying Nuclear Subs like in the movie Crimson Tide, I would go for that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

doogerie
08-24-2009, 02:02 AM
I don't know if that happened like ever.

tuddley3
08-24-2009, 02:12 AM
I wouldn't think so. Even acoustics could pull that off. I have only been able to sink 1 British sub in SH3. Mainly because it was 400 meters away, and AOB was 90 degrees, Chasing a sub would be impossible.

pacific_breeze
08-24-2009, 04:00 AM
Originally posted by tuddley3:
Now, if there was a game portraying Nuclear Subs .... I would go for that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Stop dreaming ... it can't be possible .. last time they collided when they were trying to play sub to sub .. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

Vollendung
08-24-2009, 05:43 AM
Ok, German U-Boats vs British subs or American sub - in terms of terminology it doesn't matter.
Historically it was real so why it couldn't be done in SH5??? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

No, Nuclear subs is not an option http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


I wouldn't think so. Even acoustics could pull that off. I have only been able to sink 1 British sub in SH3. Mainly because it was 400 meters away, and AOB was 90 degrees, Chasing a sub would be impossible.

Is this a mod for SH3???
Could you please tell me how did you do this? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

tuddley3
08-24-2009, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by Vollendung:
Is this a mod for SH3???
Could you please tell me how did you do this? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I thought it might be just a stock feature since I didn't play unmodded for very long. But if it is a community created mod, it is included in War Ace Campaign 2.15 and above. As far as I know, the British subs don't fire torps, but they do fire their deck gun at you. Also, some are surfaced, and some are submerged. The one I sank was surfaced.

Here is a screenie :
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m65/tuddley3/SH3%20Screenies/BrithishSubGoingDown.jpg

rex.kramer
08-25-2009, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by tuddley3:
but I'm not sure how historically accurate sub to sub combat was back in WWII.
More than 70 combats between allied submarines and German submarines are been documented. Royal submarines brought it to 51 attacks and sunk 13 German submarines.

klcarroll
08-25-2009, 11:08 AM
A WWII "Sub-vs-Sub" scenario would probably be a lot less interesting than you might imagine.

You have to remember that in WWII, the major limitation was the torpedoes; ....Which were designed specifically to engage surface vessels. They had little or NO ability to "think in three dimensions", so any Sub-vs-Sub engagement pretty much required that the target boat be either running on the surface or at periscope depth.

If the target sub "went deep" there was virtually NO chance of another sub engaging it.

Consequently, in actual gameplay, a "Sub-vs-Sub" engagement would be little more than a standard surface engagement; ......with different "eye-candy".

klcarroll

Celeon999
08-25-2009, 01:01 PM
Indeed.

To illustrate it : The majority of these sub vs. uboat combats looked like this :


A uboat went out of its french harbour and through the Bay of Biskay.

Suddenly somebody screamed : "Torpedo trails !" followed by a crash dive order.

Shortly after it either made bang ! and the combat was over when the uboat was blown to pieces, or nothing happened and the combat was over. End or program.

There was no way for the british sub to launch a second strike and no way for the uboat to counter attack. The uboat went on and just radioed the presence of the british sub in while the british sub left the area to try its luck somewhere else.

Its really not that exciting.

British subs were lurking in the bay of biscay with intention to torpedo outgoing or incoming uboats.

Sub surface duels in which both subs tried to ram each other at periscope depth were the absolute exception and propably only happened at one or two occassions in the entire war.

In the game, the only thing you would get out of it is that it suddenly makes bang ! and you would be dead without knowing what happened. It would be just a frustrating as running on a mine in SH3 or SH4.

andy3536
08-26-2009, 10:44 AM
Yeah sub to sub combat just wasn't an option in WW2. The technology wasn't there to make it possible.
It'd be nice to see some on the surface or in ports to have a pot shot at but i don't see the point of trying to put it in the game in a completely unrealistic fashion.
Have a U-boat with a modern torp? Sounds too much like cheating.

enigma1978
08-27-2009, 03:28 AM
I think it would be real nice to occationally witness friendly subs in action, sinking enemy ships. It would give a meaning to reporting contacts, and it would also be realistic. During 1942 there could be as much as 40 subs engaging a single convoy.

And of course you should also be rewarded with just a little renown if a friendly sub sinks a ship because of your contact report.

Wolferz
09-02-2009, 05:39 AM
Let's not forget why it was called the silent service. Sub on Sub at depth would require sophisticated active Sonar. They didn't have any hardware close to that in the fourties. Plus, using any kind of active sonar from that era would leave your boat in danger of detection by surface vessels.
Also, no sub from that era was capable of opening outer doors and tubes from 100' or below. Too much water pressure for the hydraulic technology at hand.

As a Submarine enthusiast I really don't want to see another rehash of fantasy U-boats like in the IO campaign add-on in IV. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Stormfly9U
09-03-2009, 04:32 PM
hi there...

you want it realistic ? ...so you have to put the s-boats in position. I would love that feeling, also with a good chance for reports of torpedo wakes, it just adds realism and action to the game.

Pacific_Ace
09-04-2009, 03:19 PM
U.S. subs sank quite a few IJN subs. Because of ULTRA intercepts we often knew where/when they were going to be and laid ambushes at every opportunity.

Anders_14
01-27-2010, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by doogerie:
I don't know if that happened like ever.

"That is hardly surprising. The plume of water and debris, rising 60 meters, or 200 feet, into the air, was the result of a torpedo fired from a prowling British submarine, the Venturer, that struck the German sub U-864 amidships at the very start of a clandestine voyage to Japan."

Look it up at http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01...ay.4162616.html?_r=1 (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/10/world/europe/10iht-norway.4162616.html?_r=1)

shouhei00
01-27-2010, 06:33 PM
i've heard there was a capitian sunk 2 U boat in WWII

uniquewave
01-27-2010, 06:43 PM
This thread reminds me of the movie "U-571" (I think that's what it's called). The Americans capture a German U-boat that was stranded in the Atlantic, which I thought was believeable. But then they go on to sub surface combat with a German manned U-boat. Even though they dont know how to operate a uboat they still fired torpedoes and somehow hit another underwater target without even ever seeing it. If you have seen this movie you know what I mean. It is the most unrealistic interpretation of any war or battle I have ever seen. I laugh/yell every time I see it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

uniquewave
01-27-2010, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by uniquewave:
This thread reminds me of the movie "U-571" (I think that's what it's called). The Americans capture a German U-boat that was stranded in the Atlantic, which I thought was believeable. But then they go on to sub surface combat with a German manned U-boat. Even though they dont know how to operate a uboat they still fired torpedoes and somehow hit another underwater target without even ever seeing it. If you have seen this movie you know what I mean. It is the most unrealistic interpretation of any war or battle I have ever seen. I laugh/yell every time I see it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

by sub surface combat I ment underwater, not subs on the surface.

I cant edit my post for some reason.

socko2009
01-28-2010, 07:27 AM
WWII torpedoes did not have the ability to "think" in three dimensions: ……They were designed for engaging surface ships, and were typically configured to run at a pre-selected shallow depth.

Also, WWII submarines were not capable of launching torpedoes significantly below Periscope Depth.

Because of these factors, the only successful Sub vs. Sub encounters were really nothing more than “surface engagements”, where the target was either running on the surface, or was observed running at Periscope Depth by its periscope wake.


S.

uniquewave
01-28-2010, 11:13 AM
One way to simulate this would be to have a parameter that would randomly cause massive damage to your boat when you accidently ram an Allied sub while on patrol. The odds could be 1,000,000,000/1.

socko2009
01-28-2010, 12:44 PM
One way to simulate this would be to have a parameter that would randomly cause massive damage to your boat when you accidently ram an Allied sub while on patrol. The odds could be 1,000,000,000/1.


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif I love it!!!!


S.

gamer025
01-28-2010, 02:00 PM
I'm sure I've read somewhere that British Sub sunk a Uboat before. It's rare but I'm sure it can happen. Also if there are subs traveling with a convoy or task force there's no way to stop you from hitting them with a torpedo if they are on the surface. It wouldn't be much different from any other ship except a smaller target and low strategic value (vs. merchant ship.)

Also @ tuddley3, if Vollendung is German, know that Germans call all submarines Uboats. Only non-Germans distinguish between "uboat" and "submarine" where "uboat" is a German sub.

robotmaster
01-30-2010, 05:26 PM
Interesting topic.
I had to create an account and fill in on the subject!

Happenings in the Baltic sea during WW2:

1. Ramming
Finnish submarine "Vetehinen"
From Wikipedia.org -> Read on here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_submarine_Vetehinen)
"On November 5, 1942, Vetehinen rammed the Soviet submarine ? 305 (ShCh 305) in the southern Gulf of Bothnia and sank it.

2. Torpedo attack
Finnish submarine "Vesihiisi"
From wikipedia
On 9 August 1942, the Vesihiisi was deployed along with her two sister ships to Mariehamm. Their mission was to conduct anti-submarine operations off the Åland islands.

In the evening of 21 October 1942 she torpedoed and sank the Soviet S class submarine S-7, near Söderarm in the Stockholm archipelago.[1] The captain and four of the crew of the S-7 were then captured.
More: Vesihiisi wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_submarine_Vesihiisi)

Furthermore:
There is a finnish WW2 uboat serving as a museum today, "Vessiko" type II - the only remaining Type II in the world. Read more here:
wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_submarine_Vesikko)

xoroxx
01-31-2010, 09:52 PM
HMS Venturer sank a german sub U-864 on Feb 6th, 1945.

First time any sub interntionnally sank another sub while both of them where submerged.

Read the wiki: HMS Venture sinks U-864 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Venturer_(P68))

SRCHFSPARTAN013
02-02-2010, 05:47 PM
I think in WWII, there was only one case where a submarine sunk another submarine while both submerged. (British sunk German)