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CraytonRoberts
06-14-2004, 08:46 AM
I hope there are plans in the offing for the Griffon-powered Spitfires. In my opinion, with the bubble canopy, the most beautiful plane in WW2. But how about a dogfighting scenario? The P51 had a greater range, of course, but how about other factors? Could a Mustang shoot down or knock a V1 off course?
Anyone heard of an upcoming Spit XIV? They started being first-line fighters in '44.

CraytonRoberts
06-14-2004, 08:46 AM
I hope there are plans in the offing for the Griffon-powered Spitfires. In my opinion, with the bubble canopy, the most beautiful plane in WW2. But how about a dogfighting scenario? The P51 had a greater range, of course, but how about other factors? Could a Mustang shoot down or knock a V1 off course?
Anyone heard of an upcoming Spit XIV? They started being first-line fighters in '44.

tazzers01
06-14-2004, 08:49 AM
Thats early 44 mate as in January 44. But don't get your hopes up the MkIX was in use with 7 or 8 squadrons in 1942 but we only get it from 1943 onwards in FB. Its a bit 'suss if you ask me.

hotspace
06-14-2004, 08:55 AM
It's being Modelled http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hot Space

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v33/Hot_Space/queen3.jpg (http://www.il2skins.com/?planeidfilter=all&planefamilyfilter=all&screenshotfilter=allskins&countryidfilter=all&authoridfilter=Hot+Space&historicalidfilter=all&searchkey=&action=list&ts=1084560274)

Festung Europa Spitfire Campaign (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-14.html)

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-14-2004, 08:55 AM
It would be very cool, but I don't expect much more to be done plane-wise in FB:AEP. I imagine most of the developement effort is being focused on the work in BoB.

A few of the planned flyables, yes, but that's as far as I see it. Which is O.K. for me because I love this game more each time I fly it and the addition of some planes that give tactical diversity to some of the map makers can add months of new life to this excellent sim.



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WOLFMondo
06-14-2004, 09:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CraytonRoberts:
I hope there are plans in the offing for the Griffon-powered Spitfires. In my opinion, with the bubble canopy, the most beautiful plane in WW2. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

100% Agree, the Griffon Spitfires are not only the best looking Spits but the best looking prop planes going. They also sound awesome.

The XIV is also the last major production version and saw service in the ETO and India so would not be out of place in FB or PF.

As for P51D vs XIV im not sure but hopefully we can find out soon http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

http://bill.nickdafish.com/sig/mondo.jpg
Wolfgaming.net. Where the Gameplay is teamplay (http://www.wolfgaming.net)

jurinko
06-14-2004, 09:28 AM
i read as allied pilots complained that spit is better dogfighter than their P-51. the reply was like "sure it is better dogfighter, but can´t fly to berlin and back". quite simple and full comment.
MkXIV should do 550kph at SL (V1 hunters didi 650kph though, on 150oct gas and special engine) but 720kph at 9000m. Still able to turnfight and its climb was comparable with late 109s.

---------------------
Letka.13/Liptow @ HL

CraytonRoberts
06-14-2004, 10:09 AM
Re Sit XIV and V-1,s. I've read several accounts of the spit intercepting V-1's and tipping over their wings, thus sending the jet into a dive. Can't recall the source, but I have it at home.

WOLFMondo
06-14-2004, 10:12 AM
I would have thought a XIV with 100 octane fuel would have exceeded 550kph at sea level. I don't think there was much different about the engine, it was just a huge 37ltr 2000hp Griffon.

I know that many were moved as quickly as possible to front line airbases after DDay to fly top cover for Typhoons and Tempests, did they use 100 or 150 grade fuel?

http://bill.nickdafish.com/sig/mondo.jpg
Wolfgaming.net. Where the Gameplay is teamplay (http://www.wolfgaming.net)

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-14-2004, 10:29 AM
150 octane sounds awfully high. I think it was more like 120.



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p1ngu666
06-14-2004, 10:31 AM
specs from spitfire book http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
mark 1 vs mark24
loaded weight 5,935 10,100 lbs

fuel capcity 84 , 186 gallons

power rr merlin 2: 1030 rr griffon 85 2,050

max speed 355 at 19,000 454 at 26,000

rate of climb 30,000 ft in 16 and 1/2 mins 9mins
30 000 feet = 9 144 meters
34 000 feet = 10 363.2 meters
43 000 feet = 13 106.4 meters

service ceiling 34,000 43,000ft

range 500 580

guns, 8x 303 4x 20mm cannons + rockets

griffon is only a smidge bigger than merlin, 6% frontal area and 3"longer, 600ibs more weight http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
b17s operated at 20,000feet plus i think, 25,000 the norm.
so if spits was scambled to escort they could be there in less than 10mins http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
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nixon-fiend.
06-14-2004, 10:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
guns, 8x 303 4x 20mm cannons + rockets
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

4 cannon for the f.24 yeah.. but no .303s .. 8x .303s on the mk.I,II and Va

^^^ EDIT; my mistake pingu... didnt read your post properly.. skimming, i read it as specs for f.24.

4 hispanos and 8 303s would be nice though ;-)

[This message was edited by nixon-fiend. on Mon June 14 2004 at 09:59 AM.]

Zyzbot
06-14-2004, 10:39 AM
[QUOTE] Could a Mustang shoot down or knock a V1 off course?
QUOTE]

Here are the numbers of V-1's claimed by both aircraft types:

Spitfire X1V's 303
Mustangs 232

p1ngu666
06-14-2004, 10:40 AM
ya
its first number is mk1, second is mk24 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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horseback
06-14-2004, 11:07 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by p1ngu666:
b17s operated at 20,000feet plus i think, 25,000 the norm.
so if spits was scambled to escort they could be there in less than 10mins http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

QUOTE]

...and out of fuel 15 minutes later. Spits occasionally escorted the B-17s maybe as far as Paris on the outbound leg, and about from the same distance back into England on the return legs, but they were simply not suitable for long range escort with the lone exception of the high altitude specialized MK VII (and their primary role was the defense of the UK, not babysitting Yanks).

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

Kurfurst__
06-14-2004, 12:18 PM
The Spit XIV would have all the advantages over the Mustang, expect for the range (not very important in game),and the high speed roll rate, in which the P-51 would truly beat the Spit. I guess the Mustang`s hope would lay in doing some kind of energy fighting or team tactics. Just like the 109, the Spit was lightweight (well not really in case of late variants like the XIV at 8500lbs) interceptor, so it has excellent manouveribility and a wide fighting envelope, at the cost of operational factors.

http://www.x-plane.org/users/isegrim/fat-furred%20tigerB.jpg

"We've got the finest tanks in the world. We just love to see the German Royal Tiger come up on the field".
- Lt. Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. Febuary 1945.

"One day a Tiger Royal got within 150 yards of my tanks and knocked me out. Five of our tanks opened up on him at ranges of 200 to 600 yards and got 5 or 6 hits on the front of the Tiger. They all just glanced off and the Tiger backed off and got away. If we had a tank like that Tiger, we would all be home today."
- Sgt. Clyde D. Brunson, US Army, Tank Commander, February 1945

Aaron_GT
06-14-2004, 12:35 PM
"...and out of fuel 15 minutes later."

I know you are not being entirely serious, but the Spitfire XIV had a reasonable combat range on internal fuel of 450 miles. Half that of the P51B or D, but not THAT short. The P51A had about the the same range as the Spitfire XIV.

Jaws2002
06-14-2004, 12:41 PM
Fly today's Spit IX HF... that's how the Spit XIV should fly.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

tazzers01
06-14-2004, 12:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jaws2002:
Fly today's Spit IX HF... that's how the Spit XIV should fly.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

...........erm.........how?

Kurfurst__
06-14-2004, 12:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tazzers01:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jaws2002:
Fly today's Spit IX HF... that's how the Spit XIV should fly.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

...........erm.........how?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probably he refers to a *tiny* FM glitch, which makes the IX HF fly at some 440 mph, ie. apprx. the max. speed of the XIV, where it only supposed to do 416mph..

Anyway, tazz, I got a bottle of champagne being cooled down, do you know what will I celebrate? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

http://www.x-plane.org/users/isegrim/fat-furred%20tigerB.jpg

"We've got the finest tanks in the world. We just love to see the German Royal Tiger come up on the field".
- Lt. Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. Febuary 1945.

"One day a Tiger Royal got within 150 yards of my tanks and knocked me out. Five of our tanks opened up on him at ranges of 200 to 600 yards and got 5 or 6 hits on the front of the Tiger. They all just glanced off and the Tiger backed off and got away. If we had a tank like that Tiger, we would all be home today."
- Sgt. Clyde D. Brunson, US Army, Tank Commander, February 1945

biggs222
06-14-2004, 12:54 PM
what i love about the mkXIV is that it has the same turn rate as the mkIX!!!

so if we do see it in AEP it better turn the same as the mkIX. oleg better not pull what he did to the mkIX on the mkXIV, that is IF we actually get it.

DuxCorvan
06-14-2004, 01:55 PM
If you're talking about late Spitfires I wouldn't dream too much, kids. Bad news for you. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Read this thread, and I mean READ IT ALL. You'll see what I mean:

http://www.netwings.org/dcforum/DCForumID43/1065.html

Just stop dreaming. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

- Dux Corvan -
http://www.uploadit.org/DuxCorvan/Altamira2.jpg
Ten thousand years of Cantabrian skinning.

Aaron_GT
06-14-2004, 02:13 PM
Seems to be a thread on the XVI not the XIV.

horseback
06-14-2004, 03:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
"...and out of fuel 15 minutes later."

I know you are not being entirely serious, but the Spitfire XIV had a reasonable combat range on internal fuel of 450 miles. Half that of the P51B or D, but not THAT short. The P51A had about the the same range as the Spitfire XIV.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But not after a full power climb to 25,000 ft. Max range is determined from a gentle fuel conserving climb to best altitude, and a low cruise speed with the mix leaned out.

Range is how far an aircraft can fly in a straight line; combat radius (or range, in some contexts) is the maximum distance an aircraft can fly, including the climb to combat altitude, fight for about 15 minutes, disengage, and return to base with a safe fuel reserve margin.

With the exception of the MK VII and the specialized wet-wing recon Marks, the Spitfire had a combat radius of approximately 150 miles. For defense of the UK, where the aircraft never leaves friendly territory, the pilot may use the full endurance of his mount to pursue the enemy, so you MIGHT be able to quote a combat range of 400 miles there.

However, over disputed territory, or when assigned to patrol a given area, combat range becomes significantly restricted, and more properly described as radius. Remember also that once you enter combat, your engine will spend fuel the way my ex wife used to spend my money.

The Mustang MK Ia/P-51A had a combat RADIUS of over 450 miles, which is why it was so useful for low altitude recce, and why it accomplished the first ground attack missions across the German border from Great Britain. Bear in mind that these missions were not done over friendly territory, with engines set for maximum fuel conservation, but across enemy held lands, where the Mustang's greatest protection was already being faster than a potential pursuer was likely to be.

The Spitfire was a point defense interceptor; even with a 30 gallon slipper tank, it's combat radius would still be significantly less than the Allison Mustangs' on internal fuel.

I advise you to re-read your sources with an eye to the differences between combat radius/range and absolute range.

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

DuxCorvan
06-14-2004, 04:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
Seems to be a thread on the XVI not the XIV.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, but, anyway, Oleg isn't interested in any late Spitfires for FB.

A Griffon Spitfire means even more work for integration.

- Dux Corvan -
http://www.uploadit.org/DuxCorvan/Altamira2.jpg
Ten thousand years of Cantabrian skinning.

p1ngu666
06-14-2004, 04:48 PM
priller asked me todo some skinning for that, but thankfully i didnt do much, i was doing stuff for a friend who was ill and may yet still die but he was feeling better last i heardhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.
i did point out to priller that XVI or whatever was EXACTLY the same airframe of IX but diff engine (only a minor changes to that too really)


oh and isnt there a 90gall slipper tank, and also u dont need long range when u got p51's aswell http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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hop2002
06-14-2004, 05:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>oh and isnt there a 90gall slipper tank, and also u dont need long range when u got p51's aswell <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, there was a 90 gallon drop tank that was frequently used, and also an internal tank in the rear fuselage (like the Mustang's) of up to 75 gallons, that was fitted to many later Spit XIVs.

Normal internal fuel was 111 gallons, 201 with drop tank, 276 with drop tank and rear fuselage tank.

Philipscdrw
06-14-2004, 05:56 PM
A US vs UK 1944 scenario? That's a pretty twisted dream.

PhilipsCDRw

"Nietzsche is dead." - God.

View Cpt. Eric Brown's review of FB here. (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=309109534&r=875101634#875101634)

VW-IceFire
06-14-2004, 09:22 PM
Gentlemen. You need to stop confusing the Mark XVI (16) with the Mark XIV (14). Despite the numbering...the XVI (16) is the same as the IX (9 - can I stop now? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) with exception of a Packard build Merlin, some reworked innards...Oleg apparently has mentioned that he wouldn't do an entirely new model based on the same IX airframe.

The XIV which is very much different has and continues to be in development. There's also a Mark 22 in development. Cross your fingers!

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

Aaron_GT
06-15-2004, 01:17 AM
"Yeah, but, anyway, Oleg isn't interested in any late Spitfires for FB."

The XVI is essentially the same plane as the IX, which we have.

Aaron_GT
06-15-2004, 01:38 AM
horseback wrote:
"But not after a full power climb to 25,000 ft. Max range is determined from a gentle fuel conserving climb to best altitude, and a low cruise speed with the mix leaned out. "

If this was really the case it would even make a poor point defence fighter!

"The Mustang MK Ia/P-51A had a combat RADIUS of over 450 miles,"

I think there might be an issue between different ways of quoting range leading to me getting confused.

It seems that the one-way range of the XIV
is 450 miles, with a combat radius of 150 miles.
The quoted ranges for the P51A vary between
375 (which may or may not be combat radius) and
450 (which is probably not just the endurance).

So I got it wrong.

The AFDU tests pretty much say that the
Spitfire XIV range is about half that of the
Mustang III (P51B).

Note - the P-51A is the Mustang II, not the Ia.

The P51B carried at least twice the fuel of
the Spitfire XIV, so the differences in range
aren't too surprising.


hop2002 wrote:
"Normal internal fuel was 111 gallons, 201 with drop tank, 276 with drop tank and rear fuselage tank."

Which puts the Spitfire XIV on about the same fuel tankage as a P51B-D with the fuselage tank. And amazingly enough boosts the range of the Spitfire XIV to more or less the same as the P51 without drop tanks.

hop, do you know what the combat radius with the 90 gallon tank would be?

HellToupee
06-15-2004, 01:57 AM
there were also spitfires tried with wingdrop tanks, the spitfire XI an unarmed recon carring cameras had a range i belive off internal fuel of about 1200miles.

http://lamppost.mine.nu/ahclan/files/sigs/spitwhiners1.jpg

p1ngu666
06-15-2004, 02:03 AM
p51 wouldnt make a good interceptor cos didnt have climb speed irl
i read also that a pr spit got a gaggle or 109's on his tail, he opened throttle up and eased away in a climb. didnt even drop his 90gall slipper or use WEP http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif.

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Salfordian
06-15-2004, 02:20 AM
Yeah, I remember reading that the PR spits where virtually immune to interception until the Me262 came into service

DuxCorvan
06-15-2004, 08:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The XIV which is very much different has and continues to be in development. There's also a Mark 22 in development. Cross your fingers!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll cross them right now! But I insist: do they have Oleg's bendition?

- Dux Corvan -
http://www.uploadit.org/DuxCorvan/Altamira2.jpg
Ten thousand years of Cantabrian skinning.

WOLFMondo
06-15-2004, 10:05 AM
Im not suprised the the XIV had a shorter range, it had a much bigger 37ltr Griffon engine that had significantly more power output and chewed up fuel much more fuel, more so than any Merlin put in a P51.

XIV's were put in front line units as they moved up through France, so range from the UK was not an issue.

As for the XVI, is there any point in having it in FB? The XIV is a major production model and deserves its place but the XVI is just a US built IX.

http://bill.nickdafish.com/sig/mondo.jpg
Wolfgaming.net. Where the Gameplay is teamplay (http://www.wolfgaming.net)

VW-IceFire
06-15-2004, 12:05 PM
Some of you might appreciate this one:
http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/spitxivaddict.jpg

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

p1ngu666
06-15-2004, 12:43 PM
i think the packard had diff alt change for supercharger so it was VERY good against 190 at its best alt, maybe 40mph faster but dont hold me to that cos its prolly wrong :P

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horseback
06-15-2004, 05:08 PM
My last post was during a break from work. Checking my sources, I find a single reference to the Mustang Mk Ia/P-51 max range of 750 miles at max cruise at 10000 ft., which would not be the best speed for fuel conservation.

Maybe we should just speak in terms of time instead of range when the subject of range comes up. In any case, the Allison engined Mustangs very likely enjoyed very close to twice the endurance/range of the Spitfire Mk XIV in combat conditions.

By the by, my sources say that it was the FR Mk XVIII (outwardly identical to bubbletop MK XIVEs)that had the fuselage tank, which must have made it a right b!tch to keep on course. Bubbletop Spits were notorious for poor directional stability, due to the loss of 'keel' area, and the CG problems caused by fuel sloshing around in the tank behind him must have made a pilot's life very interesting.

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

HellToupee
06-15-2004, 09:04 PM
cant be anyworse than a bubble top mustang with fusealage tank.

http://lamppost.mine.nu/ahclan/files/sigs/spitwhiners1.jpg

WUAF_Badsight
06-15-2004, 10:20 PM
posted by a member from the team making the Spitfire mk22

this plane has 2400 Hp

it was first announced at the Flugwerkz website & was being done by members of the Flugwerkz site .... I THINK

this pic was posted at netwings

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5811/Spit22.jpg

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
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WUAF_Badsight
06-15-2004, 10:28 PM
this is the mk14 Spitfire being done by Fievel

isnt it a Beauty : )))

man o man are Gustavs F**ked

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/2816/spit1a.jpg

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
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tazzers01
06-16-2004, 12:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Im not suprised the the XIV had a shorter range, it had a much bigger 37ltr Griffon engine that had significantly more power output and chewed up fuel much more fuel, more so than any Merlin put in a P51.

XIV's were put in front line units as they moved up through France, so range from the UK was not an issue.

As for the XVI, is there any point in having it in FB? The XIV is a major production model and deserves its place but the XVI is just a US built IX.

http://bill.nickdafish.com/sig/mondo.jpg
http://www.wolfgaming.net<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its not quite a US built MIX it is a British built aircraft (mostly bult at Castle Bromich) with the US produced Packard Merlin 266 engine. Some had bubble canopies some without the same as the MkIX. The designation difference came in because of slight differences in maintenence tooling and proceedure. Otherwise the MIX and th MkXVI are pretty much identical.

wayno7777
06-16-2004, 12:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zyzbot:
[QUOTE] Could a Mustang shoot down or knock a V1 off course?
QUOTE]

Here are the numbers of V-1's claimed by both aircraft types:

Spitfire X1V's 303
Mustangs 232<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Does your source have the numbers for the Tempest and Typhoon? I've read about Tempests doing the buzz tipping.

http://img74.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/Dux_Wreck.jpg
Any landing you can walk away from is a good one!

Aaron_GT
06-16-2004, 02:18 AM
Also the Meteor

Zyzbot
06-16-2004, 07:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wayno7777:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zyzbot:
[QUOTE] Could a Mustang shoot down or knock a V1 off course?
QUOTE]

Here are the numbers of V-1's claimed by both aircraft types:

Spitfire X1V's 303
Mustangs 232<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Does your source have the numbers for the Tempest and Typhoon? I've read about Tempests doing the buzz tipping.



<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tempest 638
Mosquitoes 428
Spitfire X1V's 303
Mustangs 232
Typhoons/Spitfire V, IX & XII 158
Meteors 13

Kurfurst__
06-16-2004, 10:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
hop2002 wrote:
"Normal internal fuel was 111 gallons, 201 with drop tank, 276 with drop tank and rear fuselage tank."

Which puts the Spitfire XIV on about the same fuel tankage as a P51B-D with the fuselage tank. And amazingly enough boosts the range of the Spitfire XIV to more or less the same as the P51 without drop tanks.

hop, do you know what the combat radius with the 90 gallon tank would be?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have several British documents on that, one compares the (practical, ie. some time spent on combat power, and reserves included) combat radiuses at maximal cruise powers. In case of the Mustang III (w/o rear fuselage tank) and Spit XIV :

Spit XIV

Max. Cruise speed : 380 mph at 25k feet
Radius of action / Enduracne
-on internal (109 gallons) : 125 miles, 50 min.
-plus external (199 gallons) : 260 miles, 1 h 55 min

Mustang III

Max. Cruise speed : 400 mph at 25k feet
Radius of action / Enduracne
-on internal (150 gallons) : 270 miles, 1h 36 min.
-plus external (275 gallons) : 450 miles, 3 h min

As for the claimed 'rear fuselage tank' thing, it`s more like wishful thinking on Hop`s side (as usual when it comes to Spits), these were fitted to Fighter-recon subtypes of the XIV, but the flying restrictions were even more paralyzing than in the case of the Mustang. Basically, straight level flight, no serious manouvers.

http://www.x-plane.org/users/isegrim/fat-furred%20tigerB.jpg

"We've got the finest tanks in the world. We just love to see the German Royal Tiger come up on the field".
- Lt. Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. Febuary 1945.

"One day a Tiger Royal got within 150 yards of my tanks and knocked me out. Five of our tanks opened up on him at ranges of 200 to 600 yards and got 5 or 6 hits on the front of the Tiger. They all just glanced off and the Tiger backed off and got away. If we had a tank like that Tiger, we would all be home today."
- Sgt. Clyde D. Brunson, US Army, Tank Commander, February 1945

Biggs01
06-17-2004, 10:08 AM
Funny how that Render of the Mk22 keeps turning up, I guess it is kinda nice http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BTW this is the second time I've seen a mention that Flugwerkz is building it. Anybody got a link to that post saying they were working on it?

Ta,

Biggs