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XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 04:34 PM
Ok, the decision has arisen, to a few howls of derision the next sim to be is Battle Of Britain.... (sorry /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )

What we want to hear are ideas for the next sim, Campaigns and missions let's get them rolling in.

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Message Edited on 10/06/0304:35PM by EURO_Snoopy

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 04:34 PM
Ok, the decision has arisen, to a few howls of derision the next sim to be is Battle Of Britain.... (sorry /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )

What we want to hear are ideas for the next sim, Campaigns and missions let's get them rolling in.

<p align="center">
<A HREF="http://mudmovers.com/sturmovik_101/FAQ.htm" TARGET=_blank>
Unofficial IL-2 Community FAQ</font></A>

Hunter82's Tech Pages (http://mudmovers.com/tech/tech_pages.htm)
‚ Forgotten Battles Reality Check (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_065a.html)
</font></p>


Message Edited on 10/06/0304:35PM by EURO_Snoopy

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 04:39 PM
I think BoB is a good choice simply because it is the single most significant aerial (only) battle ever fought.

They should add Walter Cronkites reports from London ! I wonder if it would be expensive to use them ? Can you imagine completing a mission. landing , entering a barracks & listening to real life radio from the time !?

Music would be nice to & real newspaper headlines.

The amount of historical data available is quite good i am sure. & some of our Uk friends would probably help with research ??

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 04:40 PM
Massive online campaigns with more than 100 airplanes on each side, bombing of london!

Mechanical failures, so for example adventage/disadvetage of some aircarft: frequent/unfrequent mechanical failures.

And I think mostly people will want some chances in game, ie good/bad weather, failures, pilots get heart attack http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif and so on...

yay!

Message Edited on 10/07/0307:26PM by yay1

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 04:43 PM
How about this website?


http://www.raf.mod.uk/bob1940/bobhome.html



Great source of info! BTW, WE WANT DYNAMIC WEATHER AND THE CHALKY WHITE CLIFFS OF DOVER. OH< AND WE ALSO WANT A REPLICA RAF FLYING JACKET IN A SPECIAL EDITION VERSION OF THE GAME!!!

http://www.student.richmond.edu/~vk5qa/images/forumsig.jpg


"Come on in, I'll treat you right. I used to know your daddy."

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 04:44 PM
Saburo_0 wrote:
- I think BoB is a good choice simply because it is
- the single most significant aerial (only) battle
- ever fought.
-
- They should add Walter Cronkites reports from London
- ! I wonder if it would be expensive to use them ?
- Can you imagine completing a mission. landing ,
- entering a barracks & listening to real life radio
- from the time !?
-
- Music would be nice to & real newspaper headlines.
-
- The amount of historical data available is quite
- good i am sure. & some of our Uk friends would
- probably help with research ??
-

Excellent ideas to add atmosphere to the game! Keep 'em coming



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Unofficial IL-2 Community FAQ</font></A>

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XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 04:46 PM
hi,

near to historical missions..there are plenty of informations about that....
and a good background story..pilot RAF versus pilot LW ..

small bomber crews...by seperat story

1. Adler Attack
2. The Patt
3. London Burning

4. Fights of the BF 109 and Hurricans

5. Spitfire On The Way

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 04:48 PM
How about if we compile a list of music we'd like to have with the sim? It'd be great taking off on a bombing run while listening to Handel's Fireworks Music especially given his mixed history!

http://www.student.richmond.edu/~vk5qa/images/forumsig.jpg


"Come on in, I'll treat you right. I used to know your daddy."

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 04:52 PM
how about some what if situations? like if the germans had tried to invade scotland first or snt battleships over from norway?, id love to fly over scotland

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 04:53 PM
hi.
re..

in that sim original sounds of the planes are important..

..a feature like radio command in missions by players speaking(offline) could be possible by accelerate hardware...

and of course more than one desktop vision use..3D systems..

hope the dev.-team use 64 bit programming ...

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 04:54 PM
You can get a two day pass to run off- to London, & cut scenes of girls, pubs & a city under black out conditions.
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Obviously fires burning at night will be part of it.

How a bout the possibility of your base being bombed at night or before you can take off. You hear voices of other pilots etc. "What's happening?-Air raid take cover!"

then you see the carnage from a slit trench. Your unit can loose available aircraft & be forced to relocate. Could also move to a flying club ala the movie.

Our British friends might be disappointed if the airbases are not quite detailed. Unlike temporary airstrips in the East many permanent & well known bases will be in play.

i remember a nice pick of 78th FG Mustangs in an old pre war British hanger & on the wall is painted a reminder for Gladiator pilots about how much fuel they have (or something like that. can look it up at home.)

Since attention to detail has been such a trademark of the IL2 series i expect this'll continue.

Alright Brits get out your cameras & dig up old photos!

Oh & my favorite a squadron mascot! I like dogs but Simba the lion was across the channel with the Huns IIRC.

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 05:07 PM
Flyable Bf110 and Ju88 from the beginning!!!!!!!! DON'T forget them again!!!!

2 things we need in FB:
The 110 and the desert!!!
http://exn.ca/news/images/1999/04/23/19990423-Me110coloursideMAIN.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 05:10 PM
My wishes for the campaigns:

a) Outmost historical detail
b) Outmost immersion

The units should have the correct planetypes (easy here), the correct paintschemes, the correct unit emblems and codes and (if necessary) the correct commanders and aces.

The campaign starts with the selection of the Air Force - either RAF or Luftwaffe (somehow as done in Red Baron II). Then the player is assigned to a unit - no selection, but just a simple order from above (if Luftwaffe was selected he can choose between Fighter, Destroyer, Stuka or Bomber campaign - maybe even Recon??, maybe for RAF also but that depends on the concept). The new pilot gets his personal plane and mechanic, a tactical number and gets a Flighleader to learn from. Air victories appear on the tail/below the cockpit of each plane in the squadron (plus the respective aces). The player advances in the ranks and gets more responsibilities and choices - as Squad Leader he can change the pilot list or plan missions on his own.

The campaign uses movie or radio snippets for immersion as well as the usual rumors spread by your mechanic.

And and and ...

---------------------------
http://home.t-online.de/home/340045970094-0001/lwskins_banner_gross.jpg (http://www.lwskins.de.vu)
Historical Skins for Luftwaffe-Fighters

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 05:13 PM
EURO_Snoopy wrote:
-
- Saburo_0 wrote:
-- I think BoB is a good choice simply because it is
-- the single most significant aerial (only) battle
-- ever fought.
--
-- They should add Walter Cronkites reports from London
-- ! I wonder if it would be expensive to use them ?
-- Can you imagine completing a mission. landing ,
-- entering a barracks & listening to real life radio
-- from the time !?
--
-- Music would be nice to & real newspaper headlines.
--
-- The amount of historical data available is quite
-- good i am sure. & some of our Uk friends would
-- probably help with research ??
--
-
- Excellent ideas to add atmosphere to the game! Keep
- 'em coming
-

Real Newsreel clips between some missions.

More historical pilots (with real pictures) as squad mates.

Some evolution in the weather.

Unexpected events as to cancel a mission because of the weather, mechanical failures, other developments on the front,etc.

I hope this new sim will bring us (through add-ons or not)to 1945. See my sig./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif







<center>Qui vainc sans risque triomphe sans gloire.</center>
<center>http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/images/tempestv_t.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 05:15 PM
Definately 'Moonlight Sonata', the German codeword for the blitz on Coventry (my hometown) that took place on the 14th and 15th of November 1940.

It was a clear night lit by a full moon, 400 - 500 hundred German bombers pounded the city into rubble. At the time It was the heaviest bombing raid ever launched. Planes were recalled from fronts all over Europe to deliver a crushing blow to this centre of British car and aircraft production. Heavier than anything even London had experienced, such concentration on a provincial city with a tightly packed shopping centre was utterly devastating. The fires could be seen for miles.

It is such an important and integral part of WWII that it must be included. Why? Coventry was a vital target, making aircraft and tanks etc. The cathedral was bombmed and, as a result, has stood as a symbol for years since, the bombed-out one is still standing, a _huge_ number of German aircraft took part in the raid.

Finally, there is debate about whether Churchill let Coventry get flattened to avoid letting the Germans know we had cracked their codes - basically, it's an important one to include.

/m

p.s. It's also my home town /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif If you want any pics of Coventry, London, planes from Hendon or Duxford, let me know.

Some pictures:
Broadgate - City Centre
http://home.edu.coventry.ac.uk/cyberclass/blitz/broadgt.gif


The Cathedral
http://home.edu.coventry.ac.uk/cyberclass/blitz/uni1.gif

http://www.coventryweb.co.uk/editorials/history/images/coventry.jpg



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Message Edited on 10/06/0304:16PM by ICAG_Bader

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 05:17 PM
Don't forget the Do17 there!

I think really accurate depictions of the SCALE of the air battles and the frenetic nature of August and September that year is what I'm hoping for. And medium altitude combat. Vapour trails over the home counties, hundreds of Dorniers, Heinkels and fighter escort. Dynamic weather. More immersion. Better radio - vectors to contacts from sexy female fighter controllers, all that cracking terminology. Ah yes, can't wait.

There's an AWFUL lot of scope for good Luftwaffe missions (low level airfield raids, medium altitude area bombing, fighter escorts, shipping raids, night bombing, etc.) - I just hope there's as much variety for the RAF (i.e. more than just Spits and Hurricanes scrambling to intercept waves of bombers). Blenheims, Wellingtons, Halifaxes etc. Even the Boulton Paul Defiant. Furies and the Shorts Sunderland too if that was around in 1940. Lots of maritime would be good. Dusk raids bombing the barges forming up for SeaLion would be great.

Ah, got me thinking now... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Thanks 1C:Maddox, very glad to hear we'll be getting flight sims from you for some time yet!

SSS

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 05:18 PM
Forget the campaign generator...

Give us a high quality mission builder with great tools, like triggers, events, flags. Give us the ability to efficiently manage and place objects. Provide the abililty to create a consolidation of missions to build campaigns.

The experienced mission builders using the FMB in IL2-FB will be more than willing to share solid improvement ideas.

No one from 1C:Maddox has ever gotten serious about the FMB. We have this little box in the upper right corner that will allow the developers to PM contact the mission builders that would be very interested to share information to aid in the development of the most outstanding mission builder EVER

------------------ /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 05:24 PM
SOUNDS !! SOUNDS !! SOUNDS !!

AUDIO is as important as VIDEO !!

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 05:30 PM
Since rumor has it CEM will be implemented in greater detail I think a crew chief /mechanic to interact with would be a nice touch after all it's his plane i just fly it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Even if only a checklist sheet to go over pre- post ops would be realistic. (tho overkill for some people so should be an option to just have CEM as it is now IMHO)

Of course the ground crews are always given credit by WW2 pilots but they have not received any credit in flight sims.

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 05:31 PM
Oh wow, just thought...

How about doing some kind of side-storyline about Frank Whittle's development of the Jet engine? It could be done as cinematic breaks, between missions and news footage etc. i.e. show what both sides are working on kinda thing.

Some info on the great man:

Frank Whittle was born in 1907 to a working class family in Coventry, England. At just 21 years of age, Whittle proposed a revolutionary alternative to the piston engine which would solve the dilemma of piston engines performing badly at high altitude. Whittle's 1929 thesis would lay the foundation for the successful creation of the jet engine.

On May 15, 1941, at an air base in Coventry, Whittle's jet engine finally made its first flight in an experimental plane called the Gloster Pioneer.

I know that it wouldn't have a direct bearing on the historical aspects of the 'true' Battle of Britain but it _did_ happen in parallel, would be sooo cool to include and would really lay the foundations for some form of yet combat sim as an addon.

/m



<font face="verdana, arial, helvetica" size="2" >__________________

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XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 05:34 PM
Weather/fog etc at least as good as FS2004. As a twist, make it so you can do 'live' weather, ala FS2004 - that would be so cool because it adds an element of the unknown to the game, especially relelvant with the wonderful British weather /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



<font face="verdana, arial, helvetica" size="2" >__________________

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XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 05:47 PM
Rhubarb, rhubarb, rhubarb!

No not an insult but the missions people like Bader flew when the weather was too scrappy to expect the jerries to come over. Two or three pilots would skim over the channel below radar and under the cover of poor weather and then just prowl around the countyside looking for ground targets of opportunity. It was eventually frowned upon as being too risky for too little gain, but pilots still flew them for reasons of moral, revenge, bloody-mindedness, etc.

Alexi

<center>------------------------------------------
Drug of choice...coffee
=======================</center>
<center>http://web.onetel.com/~alx_747/coffee.gif </center>

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 05:48 PM
SCRAMBLE SCRAMBLE SCRAMBLE

those emergency scrambles pilots had to do running from their chairs to get their aircraft up as the first bombs exploded.

Landing, reloading and refueling and taking off asap (although it take some time depending on the planes)

In 1942 the pacific airwar or a similar name was the possibility of taking overall command- setting up bomb runs, fighter sweeps, patrols, manage available planes etc. Added a strategic side to it all for those who don't only want to fly but also command- could be very interesting especially for online campaignes. i wouldn't mind getting my orders from a human rather than a computer:-)

dunno just an idea

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 06:05 PM
Historic day-to-day weather would be nice, after all, it is all recorded. Also really accurate historic maps - I shall be mightily miffed if the M25 appears under my wing!

As for missions, how about some Bomber Command stuff? They were attacking the invasion barges in the ports all of that summer, and tried to destroy the Dortmund-Ems canal I believe? Of course, it was only a relatively minor part of the BoB, but it happened. Depends if the bombers (Hampdens, Wellingtons and Whitleys) get included I suppose. It would give the German fighter guys something other than fighters to have a go at though.

Cheers!

<CENTER>


<IMG SRC="http://www.apqa16.dsl.pipex.com/airplane1.3.jpg"


Ladies & gentlemen, this is the captain speaking. Thankyou for choosing to fly Mandarin Airlines. Those passengers sitting on the left-hand side of the aeroplane please make yourselves comfortable. Those sitting on the right... please look to your left!

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 06:15 PM
well at Least the 110 drivers should be happy ya cant have BOB without 110's ;-)

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 06:17 PM
Mission Builder for BoB. Allow formations *much* larger than 4 aircraft. AI should create formation spacing in vertical and horizontal spacing and behavior, and allow individual aircraft behavior to take over when the bombers panic and break formation.

For the onwhiners hoping to do more than dogfight, include code for long virtual wars over the internet. Support should be in the basic flight sim code.

A realistic wait to re~arm and refuel after landing. This must be included in any real BoB sim, and could leave the simmer vulnerable on the airfield as more bombers attack his/her field. If all these gameplay features take away from the physics FM, so be it.


Still need an experimental MiG I~224 along with the usual P~51D for BoB. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 06:26 PM
Mass takeoffs - not on a single line like in FB - but side by side.

The awesome ground control system the british had should also be simulated - likewise jerries should have a working groundcontrol.

One question is nagging me - the 109s only had what 15 minuttes over England ?

C!

<A HREF="http://giap.webhop.info" TARGET=_blank>
http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/giap/var/storage/original/image/69giap_badge_roshko.jpg
</A>

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 06:27 PM
<img src=http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/t_images/bf110c.jpg width=800 height=432>

!!!!! Flyable, PLZ /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 07:14 PM
LEXX_Luthor wrote:
-
- A realistic wait to re~arm and refuel after landing.
- This must be included in any real BoB sim, and could
- leave the simmer vulnerable on the airfield as more
- bombers attack his/her field.
-
-
-
Oh yes, totally agree. Especially valid for the RAF. It would be good if you could sit and watch all the frantic refuelling and rearming activity going on before you get back into your a/c.
Cheers!


<CENTER>


<IMG SRC="http://www.apqa16.dsl.pipex.com/airplane1.3.jpg"


Ladies & gentlemen, this is the captain speaking. Thankyou for choosing to fly Mandarin Airlines. Those passengers sitting on the left-hand side of the aeroplane please make yourselves comfortable. Those sitting on the right... please look to your left!

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 07:31 PM
Let's have some realistic wind conditions, both on- and offline, so that everyone has to take-off and land into the wind. No more gun her up and pelt off straight across the airfield. A bit of taxiing where necessary wouldn't hurt at all.

For campaigns, how about the air-sea rescue side of things? Fast launches and Walruses and He59 seaplanes etc. If you ditch in the Channel then your fate depends on how quickly you are reached, and by which side. There could even be those little floating rescue buoys (edit: Udet buoys) that the Germans used. Ditch near one of them and you get a greater chance of surviving.

Control over when you pull the ripcord. Occasionally pilots were machine-gunned in their 'chutes during the battle, and it would be good to be able to free-fall in case some of us get trigger-happy.

Realistic a/c repair times, so that damaged crates don't reappear on the squadron strength until the requisite amount of time has elapsed.

How about 1C:Maddox get some native speakers to spell-check everything? Especially beed, mashine and crached? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Cheers!

<CENTER>


<IMG SRC="http://www.apqa16.dsl.pipex.com/airplane1.3.jpg"


Ladies & gentlemen, this is the captain speaking. Thankyou for choosing to fly Mandarin Airlines. Those passengers sitting on the left-hand side of the aeroplane please make yourselves comfortable. Those sitting on the right... please look to your left!

Message Edited on 10/06/0311:57PM by Dunkelgrun

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 07:47 PM
Lets have some WEATHER this time lol.

Also paint aircraft markings under the weathering, not garishly overlayed like a big vinyl sticker.

Burn all reference to the Il-2 QMB, and make a new system: generate a world with everyone doing what they would be expected to be doing in real life (the supply columns moving, convoys moving through the Channel, Ju87s and Bf109s attacking said convoy, fighter-bombers stiking targets ect) and 'join in' with a squadron that's doing whatever you feel like doing at that time.
This will avoid that incredibly non-immersive sensation of appearing in the sky 2km from Chepelynka and being able to strafe the motorcycle column and train in my sleep. I could make a Jeppesen-style approach procedure plate for Chepelynka to attack that motorcycle column and those 4 Panzers.
With the 'Dynamic world' QMB, you would never fly the same mission twice. So if you decide to do a ground attack mission, it will create or find a squadron that would realistically be doing ground attack at that point in the battle, create (or let you create) a mission against a suitable target...

Umm..

The train now departing from Platform 4 is my train of thought, and I got off at Raynes Park by mistake and now I've lost it.

Essentially;

Replace the QMB with a one-mission dynamic campaign.


Philips CDRW

Posting vacuous messages since 2002

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 07:48 PM
Dunkelgrun wrote:
- Let's have some realistic wind conditions, both on-
- and offline, so that everyone has to take-off and
- land into the wind.

Yes of course looking forward to seeing a windsock.

Oh, BTW i don't believe the British had much in the way of an organized Air Sea Rescue service ntil AFTER the Battle, the Germans on the other hand were quite good at it.

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 07:50 PM
thats a great idea, a dynamic single-mission generator.

I would like to apply some form of 'difficulty' factor that influences how quickly forces can move etc.

Furthermore, forces should be influenced by weather conditions and so forth. For example, their visibility alters, if it's muddy ground vehicles are slow/stuck, heavy sea would postpone certain things and so on.



<font face="verdana, arial, helvetica" size="2" >__________________

It's enough to make you want to hide in the wardrobe of darkness.
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<font size="1">Pentium 4 3Ghz 800Mhz FSB Hyperthreading | Abit IC7 Max 3 | 256Mb Radeon 9800 Pro |
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XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 08:21 PM
Need cloudy like this:

http://www.dof.cn/bbs/php/upfile/1065468817853bf109g10-schwarze-2_16.jpg


..enjoy fly,enjoy life..
http://www.chnace.org/chn_logo.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 08:29 PM
Nightfighter career for both sides and realistic anti-shipping missions (complex DM for ships, better AI, and realistic bombs and torpedoes).

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 08:46 PM
BOB ... bring it on!

One request: random possibilities generator for missions. I know this can be acomplished to a degree by placing armament and "bait" aircraft in the right patterns but if it could be coded as well it would make the missions that much more re-playable.


I said it before, I plan to buy any flight sim Oleg and Team create in the future so if it's Battle of Britain, Med. Theatre, Pacific Theatre, carriers/no carriers ... it's all good.


OC

"10 postings or bust."

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 08:56 PM
An obvious scenario would be a series of Stuka attacks against a coastal radar installation. In a dynamic campaign there would be interesting implications if you succeeded (flying German) in putting one out of action -ie for a few days there would be no radar coverage of that sector. German high- level formations would no longer be intercepted as accurately along that part of the coast. Flying German you would expect an easier time of it for a while. However, you would not know precisely when the British had repaired their equipment or when the next bounce from above was going to arrive- oh, the tension...

I've read that on many occasions RAF pilots would pursue German aircraft across the English Channel almost as far as the French coast- that's 22 miles of open sea at its shortest- until their fuel warning lights came on or German coastal flak became too heavy. Will that be modelled?

Flying German bombers up the Thames estuary at night could be fun- dodging flak and barrage balloons- I believe moonlit nights were chosen so the Thames (and Tower Bridge)could be clearly seen. Watch out for those Hurricane and Defiant nightfighters.

The Germans launched attacks from Norway against British warships being refitted at the naval base of Scapa Flow in the Orkney Islands (that's off the north coast of Scotland). The RAF base at Wick (the most northerly) sent Spitfires to intercept. Would certainly provide some very different scenery from the south of England.

(Strange thought- I don't know if the street- plans of major cities like Liverpool are to be followed but theoretically you could play 'Bomb the Beatle'- John Lennon and Ringo Starr are down there somewhere).

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 08:58 PM
Many seen to sink that bob will be boring but I think there is a way to make it real good. Read that:
What if bob become a what if bob? The concept of the what if bob is simple. Despite the interest of the bob this is not really innovative
Why not to do a multi possibility game, what I call a what if game. I see bob this way. A real battle of Britain, exactly the way it was and a real dynamic scenario.

What if:
-the German haven't stop to bomb the airfields?
-they had use He-100 and Fw-187 with / instead of the Bf-109 and the Bf-110?
-they tried to land on south England by sea and by air?
-the landing for was intercepted by the RAF and a great air-sea battle ensue (Imagine a force landing escort by a Bismarck, Prinz Eugen and Tirpitz facing the famous Navy. Imagine determined RAF force of Skua, Blenheim and Swordfish escorted by Spitfire, Roc and Flumar facing an aggressive Luftwaffe in a gigantic air battle)?
-the landing succeeded and a ground battle ensue? How fare would it go?
-the Luftwaffe took care of the radar? Will they succeed or would it be a lost battle?
-the RAF had use 12 machineguns Spitfire and Hurricane?
-could have use earlier the 20mm canons in the Spit n Hurri?
-the Luftwaffe had use long rang bombers?
-the He-111 was equipped with a forward firing 20mm canon?
-the Bf-109 was equipped with a drop tank?
-The Germans had used windows against the radars?

In this scenario, every time you reach a turning point of the battle, you chose how you want to continue the story. Do I want the Germans to land in England? Do I want the Spits to be equipped with 20'?
The best for me will be a Battle of Britain beginning During the operation Dynamo (Dunkirk), the will be the historical phases of the bob until late 1941, or the what if scenario.
The bob should include those planes:

Luftwaffe:
Do-17P-1/Z-1/2, Do-215, Do-217 E-1, He-111P-2/3/4/6/H-2/6, Ju-88A-1/4, Ju-87B-1/2, Bf-109 E-1/3/4/7, Bf-110 C-1/2/3/4/5,Ju-53/3mg3e, Hs-126 B-1, He-59, He-115, Do-18 D-1, Fw-58.

RAF:
Spitfire I/II, Hurricane I, Defiant, Tiger Moth II, Anson I, Swordfish I, Battle I, Blenheim I/IF/IV, Gladiator I, Hampden, Skua, Wellington I/II/III/Beaufort I, Whitley V, Roc, Flumar I, Beaufighter IF.

RA:
Fiat G.50, CR.42, Br.20M, Cant Z1007bis

Ok it's a lot but it was just to show that bob could be fun too.
By the way I am already thing of an extension pack for bob: 1941-1942 the forgotten years.
Rhubarbs and sweeps with Spitfire V, Typhoon I, Whirlwind facing Me-109 F and Fw-190 early A's operation Donnerkeil, facing the Jabo, Dieppe So many unexploited fascinating WW2 battles Ok I stop.
So what do you think about bob? Find it still boring?


anikollag

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 09:00 PM
1) There must be only one map, western Europe as a whole.

2) Good AI, atleast on par with EAW's. Make AI pilots in units get more experienced with time. AI should try to survive even if it means not engaging in risky fights. AI should also fly to their planes strengths (ie 109's don't try to out turn hurricanes).

3) Realistic pilot career. Select a unit, then you are equiped with a plane appropriate for that unit at that time. As time advances your unit may recieve new versions of that plane or a different plane entirely. Campaign needs to be only semi-dynamic. You can effect things locally (in your unit or common target area), but the overall situation acts according to history.

4) More immersive radio chatter, once again see EAW for reference, it is still the best in that area.

5) Do not forget the Bf 110 as a flyable again

6) Formations need to be able to have syncronized waypoints for large bomber formations and escorts. Operation Flashpoint does this well, please copy them /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif .

7) We do not need a Gloster Meteor in a BoB sim.

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At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.</center>

Message Edited on 10/06/0303:02PM by Maj_Death

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 09:13 PM
-campaign for Polish 303 squadron (repeat please )
-campaign for Erpr 210 dive bomber Bf110 unit
-Bf109F-1 test unit (JG51 I think) in later stages of BoB
-Parachute and cable defences at kenley,Biggin hill etc
-free Hunts of huge numbers of 109s,
-ability to set range on gunsight,safety on guns etc
-AI Sqdns/Gruppes abilities based on RL of the period eg
some successful(92 sqdn/JG26)others not so(616Sqdn/JG52)
-more Emils(some with nose cannons,and some with mgs in
the wing-I believe they took part)
-He112 fighter which was reported to have been engaged by
Fighter command pilots on several occasions
-ability to slide back canopy on Hurricane(and get rustle
of air like on the I-16...sweet)
-far tougher Ju88
-not so tough Stuka
-proper vics of 3 for RAF and spaced out schwarme for LW
-petrol splashing about,smoke and fire inside the pit,glycol
leaks,fabric hanging off Hurris from exploding cannons etc
-greatly reduced muzzle flash on guns
-AI fighters that don't always engage straight away but
jockey for better position.
-squadron sized head ons against the bombers


also,
-Spitfires of No19 Sqdn modelled with cannon misfeeds
-masses of bicycles stacked up at the French ports
ready to help push the Heerensgruppe beyond the proposed
bridgeheads /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
-one Bofors,a three pounder and a couple of old Lewis guns
protecting No11 Group's airfields
-groups of elderly men on home gaurd duties with one rifle
between them
-Tiger Moths lashed up with bombs for point blank defence
-the hit of the summer "These Foolish things" playing whilst
waiting at dispersal
-Faulty german intel( a must really...)
-setting fire to the channel if it all goes tits up for
the British
-having Goering wearing pink patent leather boots in a
cut scene
-having some little cockney geezer in flat cap with pet
pigeon or ferret chalking up the days score on a
blackboard.




http://www.airplane-world.addr.com/Corgi/aa30701.jpg


No601 County of London Squadron,Tangmere Pilots.
http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 09:58 PM
Hi Guys,

These maps show the RAF and Luftwaffe organisation of bases as of August 1940 in England and France as well as British Airfield and Radar station deployment of August-September 1940, hope you enjoy them - I think that they would make great campaign/sub-campaign maps to play on.

/m

http://www.geekfix.com/luftraforg.jpg


http://www.geekfix.com/englandfighterdep.jpg





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XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 11:06 PM
How about Sea resuce mission with flyable float plane with escort. It is importand to rescuse pilot or end up POW. How about keep AI floatplane in stand by so if you radio that you will bail out or radio that we see other pilot bail out safe and need rescue right away before other side float plane pick pilots up.

Regards
SnowLeopard

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 11:14 PM
Some really great ideas but one that came to mind without much thought -

Listing all the Aircrews who fought under Fighter Command operational control during Battle of Britain from July 10th to October 31 1940. I have a book with them all listed including those who gave their lives.

Just a thought but a nice touch somewhere within the game, a way of remmebrance and thanks to those brave boys.Games may come and go but the names live forever!

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XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 11:23 PM
I would like to see something like the current offline dynamic campaign for online playing. F.E. a online-squad could have one online campaign, with the campaign generator creating coops. maybe with a database in the background, so anyone else, who took part in previous missions can host the following missions (if the original host is absent)

I know, I know, this will be complicated, but we are allowed to dream, aren`t we?

Best of all would be of course a 24/7 server runnig the campaign online.

Z.

http://www.jagdgruppe-ost.de/image/ejgrost.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 11:26 PM
I had heard that British heavy depend on ground control that get input from radar and rely order to RAF to intercept emeny force. So I guess RAF may get lot of radio chat. I had feel you already knew that Spitfire MK I can not dive well and engine's carb cut fuel flow if dive unless pilot have to roll invent when diving.

Regards
SnowLeopard

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 11:32 PM
Our recommend that we should not have bombers to carry incendiaries bomb for bombing on cities. It was Goring's bad idea as should target air field military sites, factories, radar stations, ports, HDQ and ships.

Regards
SnowLeopard

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 11:54 PM
I think that it should be accurate, if incendiaries were used, they should be in the game.







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XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 11:55 PM
Possible use radio guide for bomb release in night as German use it often.

Regards
SnowLeopard

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 12:00 AM
BIG factor in struggle success in BOB is stamina. RAF pilot fly many mission in one day that sometime, pilots fall asleep in their cockpit soon as they landing and taxiing to parking lot. How about add stamina in difficult setting.

Regards
SnowLeopard

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 12:04 AM
Building on the Stamina comment - one thing I would like to see is the AI 'pilots' of aicraft having personalities. They could then vary depending upon the weather, time of day, morale, general progress of the war, etc etc. Wow, imagine if the AI pilots could 'form friends' in their squadrons and get really mad if you shoot a mate down!

Not only that, it would be really neat if AI pilots could learn how you play. They would be shipped with general abilties but they could then learn, get better and adopt tactics according to how you play. The same could be applied to ground units and so forth, making the game learn and be non-linear and non-the-same on everyones machine - now that would be awesome. For example, you patrol at certain times in certain places and the computer pilots 'learn' that is your pattern and take measures to avoid or surprise you.

Perhaps a way to determine ace, novice etc would be to make the AI pilots have natural strengths in different areas, like aircraft recognition, stamina, speed of learning etc. With such a system I could envisage some truly awesome games developing.




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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 12:35 AM
Warning radar usable online.

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 12:51 AM
A strategic module (for both sides) that plays according to the era doctrines; player would sit down and follow the events, then he can jump on a plane (in flight or still parked) when he spots a mission he likes to fly.

Player can adjust the priority of the various types of missions.

If it sounds like Falcon 4 it's because that was the most fun to play. I am sick of finely crafted single missions (4th time you play == boring) and not-yet-fully-but-almost-there-dynamic campaigns.

Oh yes and you could be assigned mid-term budgets (e.g. reduce by 30% the output of Spitfire factories in a week), failing to fulfill those you will be degraded / court martialed / given 2nd class equipment and replacement pilots / forced to play finely crafted single missions.

A decent AI is in order, 109s and 110s are energy fighters and the FB AI wouldn't know them from a hurry. Please somehow teach the BOB AI how to fly a 109, then have that AI explain it in its own words to the FB AI. Please.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 12:56 AM
Bit of an essay i'm afraid.....

All previous BOB games should be looked at and there ideas cherry picked. (if not already)

I think a good idea would be fully online rankings and point system for missions completed succesfully and with points based on damage done to target, ability to keep in formation, bombing accuracy, claiming kills (you killed or damaged), photo recon accuracy, men rescued from sea, damage to aircraft etc with an offline training program like most driving games have.

You'd have points deducted for bailing out of an aircraft that was flyable(dependant on %damage), bad landings, poor navigation, failing to complete missions or orders from ground control, quiting a mission early, claiming aircraft you did'y shoot down etc.

This would mean the more online points and training you completed the higher your rank the more responsibility you get during online missions, you'd be allowed to paint your aircraft tastefully (german (like red baron)) or add your logo, transfer to another unit. The creating of a character pilot might add some passion and self-preservation. (only a number of ranks would be available at one time and keep to sensible ranks so that we wern't all reichmarchalls or dowdings), Pilots that didn't fly online for a number of days would be "flaged" as on r&r or tempory posted away from the front and there ranks made available either acting or fully) if two equal ranks were online in the same squadron then he who got the rank first would be in command.

Aslo having a variaty of aircraft/pilot types from recon, bomber, fighter, heavy fighter, fighter bomber,& rescue with limited slots for take off and limited plane types depending on time of day and missions to be completed.

This operated in a server system where the missions were generated either by strategy determined by human, historical or computer generated. say allowing firstly recon aircraft to take off then early mornin raids (fighter-bombers + fighters) then rescue missions then more recon then main bomber raids & escorts, then more recon and finally a further fighter-bomber raid for example all dependant on weather.

A 24 hour system where people could log on (during server night and plan the next days raids/defence) with a voteing system (weighted for online rank). if several servers were set up then then there could be continuous war each set 6h onward with limited intel. of enemy. a claims system for kills where you could tick off what you damaged, and destroyed after a mission (you'd get more points if you claimed correct but might not get the kill, but you may get a kill if you claimed a plane you finished off) this might even give a realistic extagerated claims) with a tally of your sides kills and pilot losses each day.

so many ideas

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 03:32 AM
I'm with nearmiss on this...good mission builder tools...

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 03:36 AM
The book Fighter General:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0764306782/qid=1065490747/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/002-5274851-3876060?v=glance&s=books

Is a source for German BoB campaigns and missions.

Air Fleet 2
Commanded by Field Marshal Albert Kesselring
Pas de Calais
Fighter Aircraft "...could reach London and operate for 10 minutes..."

Air Fleet 3
Commanded by Field Marshal Hugo Sperrle
Le Harve
"...they could make it only to the southern outskirts of London."

Air Fleet 5
Colonel-General Stumpff
Norway Denmark
Bombers and ME110 escort

Spitfires, Hurricanes and ME109s flew fighter sweeps in the summer 1940.
"up to four sweeps a day over southeastern England"

Many German fighters ran out of fuel and ditched in the English Channel. The British sent Spitfires to "finish off" cripples and stragglers.

The Germans set in place an air-sea rescue service and "reception" operations sending fresh fighters "to protect fighters and bombers returning to France"

"During the weeks of provocative German fighter sweeps over England, Stukas and JU-88 bombers attacked shipping in the Thames estuary"


Eagle Day

Aug 1940

"RAF forward airfields like Manston, Hawkinge, and Lympne were being hammered in a cresendo of strikes."

"Stumpff's bombers from Norway and Denmark, with their Me-110 escort, would come hurtling in to assault an undefended northeast coast."

The luftwaffe fighters were flying escort mission of four kinds:
1.Direct escort.
2.Indirect or deployed escort.
3.Freelance patrols
4.Supplementary escorts

Depending upon the time frame there is also the possibility of generating operation Thunderbolt.

I've read the opinion that the BoB will be boring. This may be the case with those individuals. Others however may be able to reserve the opinion that a BoB simulator can be done is such a manner as to be a whole lot of fun with a world of possibilities.


Perhaps the next sim will be done with a few planes and these few planes will have accurate relative performance from the first day the sim is loaded unto the hard drive, and perhaps new planes will be introduced only when they can be accurately placed in the plane set when doing so will not desturbing the balance of accurate relative performance.





JG14_Josf

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 03:41 AM
ICAG_Bader, I hope you know that you just gave out classified information to the enemy...Its 1940 in most people minds here and you just gave it all away with those maps...Thanks a lot bud/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Loose lips sink ships...Wish sinking ships was that easy.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 03:50 AM
Is the distances from the german airbases to britain going to be realistic? Like is the Bf109E-3/4's range going to be stretched to the limit like in the real battle with only having 15-20min. over britain like real life? The Bf-110 going to have the range like it was really used for to hit deep into enemy territory and escort the He-111's, Ju-88's, & Do-17's. A great book that might wanna read to get info, that i've read is called: "The Most Dangerous Enemy: A History of the Battle of Britain". Very good detail into how tactics played into the battle from both sides, and how specifically radar was laid out with sector stations and the observers corps. How the RAF had to use VIC formations and then had 2 more planes zig zag above them to keep from getting bounced by 109s which often happened. Just some ideas.

Lieutenant Hell's Angel 90 T of the 303rd Bombardment Group (H) "Hell's Angels"

Callsign: PirAnha
"Terror of the Skies"

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 04:30 AM
do i even have to say what i want(oh canada)
lou

THE BATTLE OF BRITAIN WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN WON WITHOUT THE CANADIANS

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:13 AM
Some people LOVE'em some HATE'em but with all the xtra realism thats garanteed to be in it, advanced CEM, what about a short training campaign? tiger for the Poms and whatever the luftwaffe used for them, would be a big help in the advanced areas for many of us

Konigwolf

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:44 AM
H-ells-Angel-90 wrote:
- Is the distances from the german airbases to britain
- going to be realistic? Like is the Bf109E-3/4's
- range going to be stretched to the limit like in the
- real battle with only having 15-20min. over britain
- like real life? The Bf-110 going to have the range
- like it was really used for to hit deep into enemy
- territory and escort the He-111's, Ju-88's, &
- Do-17's. A great book that might wanna read to get
- info, that i've read is called: "The Most Dangerous
- Enemy: A History of the Battle of Britain". Very
- good detail into how tactics played into the battle
- from both sides, and how specifically radar was laid
- out with sector stations and the observers corps.
- How the RAF had to use VIC formations and then had 2
- more planes zig zag above them to keep from getting
- bounced by 109s which often happened. Just some
- ideas.

Oh! That's big factor for LW is limit time over British for Bf 109E. For Map, since Oleg said that will release BOB in 2005 so maybe our new computer in 2005 can handle huge map even more better videocard/CPU like that. Thank you for remind us about limited range of Bf 109. I heard Japanese officer boasted that A6M2 can loiter over English for long hours. I bet Galland will prefer Squadron of Zero instead of Spitfire that he made a comment on Goring asked what he can give Galland that he asked for squadron of Spitfire.

Regards
SnowLeopard

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 08:04 AM
I would love to see the Polish/Czech squadrons highlighted and of course the "Eagle Squadron". /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Then perhaps a progression through the Western front and MTO to the PTO/CBI in future add-ons or stand aloone sims. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
~S!
Eagle
CO 361st vFG

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 08:28 AM
hi,

and the progress in features ..??????

examples:

1) more better design of pilots and gunsight views of
the combat planes....closer to real things

2) better original sounds of the planes and the scenery

3) dynamik weather ..

4) more than one desktop to use + 3D features

5) interactive 3D cockpits


.... OK.. let's do a new thread to this..?


EURO_Snoopy wrote:
- Ok, the decision has arisen, to a few howls of
- derision the next sim to be is Battle Of Britain....
- (sorry /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )
-
- What we want to hear are ideas for the next sim,
- Campaigns and missions let's get them rolling in.
-
-

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 08:57 AM
Dinamic Campaigns as was in "Their finest hour" by Lucas, for Amiga 500. Simple but very nice.

http://ourworld.cs.com/VeltroF/mc202tav4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 09:16 AM
IDEAS for BoB missions.

1) Convoy.
Stukas @ 15'000 feet with stepped top cover of Me110's and Me109's. Stuka's engaging shipping in the channel off of Folkestone. Engaged by Hurricanes from Manston.

2) Radar.
Stuka's @ 15'000 feet bomb the Radar installation at Ventnor. Escort of Me109's. Engaged by Hurricanes from Biggin Hill.

3) Low Level Raider.
Ju88's or Me110's @ 1000 feet perform low level attacks on airfields. Spitfires scrambled to intercept.

4) Airfield Attack.
Dorniers and He111's @ 23'000 feet with Me110 escort bomb Duxford, Tangmere, Biggin Hill, North Weald.

5) Engagement over the Channel.
Spitfires from Lympne are bounced on the climb by Me109's.

6) Target London.
He111's, Dorniers with Me110 escort bomb London @ 25'000 feet. The Duxford `Bing Wing` engage.

7) High altitude recon.
Specially modified Me109 recon @ 35'000 feet spotted crossing the English Coast outbound to France. Scrambled late two Spitfires lead by Pieere Closterman climb hard to engage. Do they get their pray or do they run into trouble.

8) The Italian Job.
Italian aircraft spotted approaching Cornwall. Gladiator squadron scrambled to engage - the last great Bi-plane engagement?

9) Sting in the tail. Me109's bounce Hurricanes on patrol @ 22'000 feet. But wait, they are not Hurricanes they are Defiants!

10) Indicate IFF. Hurricanes and Spitfires scrambled to engage Me110's over Kent. Blenheims are in the area, watch out!

11) Scramble!! Spitfires from Croydon scramble as He111's bomb @ 25'000 feet. Watch out for the escort!

12) Tip and Run. Me109's and Me110's perform tip and run on Manston / Lumpne / Hawkinge. Aircraft still at dispersal, can they scramble in time and catch these raiders heading home.

13) The RAF is not a flying circus!
He111's cross the coast near Darlington without escort. Hurricane Polish squadron's in training enage. Hawks to the kill.

14) His majesty's submarine requires assistance.
Can you find the S51 and escort her into harbour

15) Red Cross.
Reports indicate the Germans are using Red Cross aircraft for recon activities across the South Coast. You are ordered to find and engage. Bring her down on the beach if possible.

16) September 15th.
Bombers over London @ 25'000 feet. Outside the range of escort fighters. All available squadrons are ordered to intercept. Perfect weather, the swirling contrails were watched by Churchil. "What reserves have we", "None sir".


--- and for a Dunkirk scenario ---

1) Last Battle.
Hurricanes provide escort to Fairey Battles and Blenheims attacking bridges and vehicles across France.

2) Run for it.
Hurricanes ordered to return home. German raiders in the area. Can the aircraft slip away.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 10:20 AM
I would hope that the maps extend to other parts of Britain and not just the South East.

I hope C1 put as much attention to the flight models as humanly possible.




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AKA JG5_Emil

"I wish we all had the courage to confine our defence to three simple words....LICK MY A*S!" Herman Goering

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 11:21 AM
A strategic element layered in on top of an extensive dynamic campaign system would be my choice. Other items I see as being already thought of by the dev team. Items such as equipment choices, mission types, historical data, etc.

What I want is to be able to take command of either side at any level of organization I choose, at any point in the BoB timeline. In the past these types of strategic simulations tend to overwork the player with minutiae, items that would normally be taken care of by officers under the player's command. Make our BoB game different by including an intelligent AI on not only a tactical level (which we have now), but also a strategic level.

Anyone remember Rowan's BoB game that allowed one to play both strat and tactical aspects of the BoB? That was one hell of an idea, but the execution was poor, ruining a lot of what could have been an award winning game.

Allow Multiplayer which places players in both tactical and strategic positions of import, an almost persistent map if you will. Some will be flying, some will be in command of various aspects of their respective side's airforce. I would like to see a full infrastructure manned by AI officers and men which a player can hop into and take over.

Maybe what I am asking for will only be ultimately fulfilled by making a MMORPG out of the project. I wish I could be more clear.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 11:42 AM
To be honest I wouldn't play anything like that. I never liked the campaign of Falcon4 and I ended up playing Rowan's "BoB" as a kind of strategy game. I want a flight simulation meaning that I am a simple pilot (or maybe a lower commander) - not a general!! I prefer to connect FlightSimulation with some characteristics of a Roleplaying game meaning I am assuming the role of such a pilot there and do my best to survive. The decisions, the orders and all that strategic stuff come from "above" and do not concern me (or as the Drill Instructors of the Wehrmacht said: "Leave thinking to the horses. They have the bigger heads.")

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 11:47 AM
Some great ideas floating around here guys, I hope they get read by dev /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

How about, the ability to have a single-player campaign but jump to multiplayer in order to 'help out' with those hard single-player missions. This would be really really neat as you could have traditional co-op missions as well as the more standard dogfight type stuff. I would want the ability to have purely single-player but with the option to have multiplayer influencing the campaign as well.

I think this would be neat as it would get more people interested in online gaming but alo enforce a degree of planning and co-operation if you are to succeed in your campaign.

Furthermore, the ability to 'share' campaigns between 'teams' should be included. i.e. you and three chaps working together on the same campaign in single-and-multiplayer. You would need some ability to update each other to relfect success/failures during the single player missions. I think this would be uber-cool as it's a twist.

/m





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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 11:51 AM
Wish list for BoB and future sims.

Uncompromising non legacy hardware support, simply the best and latest.

And;

Dynamic weather. The historic weather at that day. We are talking about a very limited time in history so a reasonable accurate weather profile for that day shouldn't be too hard to re-enact.


Radar guided (Chain Home) and ground controlled intercepts with performance and radio chat as of that time. Perhaps even a possibility to observe the operations table at Fighter Command's HQ at Bentley Priory and see and hear the raids as they develop before scramble.

Voice controlled wingmen and communication with ground controller.
E.g. " wingman, bracket left!", "Roger !","Tally-ho".



Blue on blue AAA with same percentage of occurrence as in reality.

Flare gun with signal of the day on aircraft to stop above.

Possibility to open canopy and to lean out (head movement) to see e.g. while taxing.

Extremely detailed map of London area with damage model that stays. And fires, smoke etc that lingers for a realistic time. Barrage balloons etc. as of the time.

At sea rescue with Rescue Boys and Rescue Floats. E-boats, He 59 and Walrus.

Reflector sights.


For a start.

Master






Message Edited on 10/07/0312:02PM by Master.Mariner

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 11:51 AM
Dont know if its been said cause Ihave to go to work and cant red the whole thread but the ability to set multiple plane profiles as far as convergance,stick settings,(dead zones,inputs etc.),bomb delay etc is a MUST. I see no reason why this cant be implemented in the new sim and think it wouold actually be great in FB as well. All we would need would be say 3-5 blank profile slots to be applied to the planesd of our choice. That way if you go from say a plane wo cannon to one with cannon you wont have to reset your conv.

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 11:57 AM
Edit: This message was in response to csThor, others posted between before I finished typing. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

How about humans in command AND humans flying? Multiplayer would have a whole new dimension when the campaigns are online, persistent, and run by humans with AI to help out when the positions aren't filled by a live person. Imagine the possibilities.

Some type of persistent character generation and tracking would be necessary I would imagine.

I'm still not explaining myself the way I'd like to, but that would end up taking more time than I have right now to spare. Think of WWIIOnline meets IL2:FB and gets a nice healthy dose of the latest and greatest Oleg and crew can come up with......Hope that helps a little.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



Message Edited on 10/07/0307:00AM by Bully_Lang

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 12:06 PM
Ah I am not too interested in the umpteenth MP feature. I used to play MP for years (EAW, then Warbirds, then Il-2 and then FB) but the interest has worn off. I am concentrating on the Single Player Campaign and I am not interested in this "changeable strategic layer". I mean I'd like to see a historical representation of the events - not necessarily a "what-if" campaign as in Rowan's BoB ...

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Historical Skins for Luftwaffe-Fighters

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 12:11 PM
csThor wrote:
- Ah I am not too interested in the umpteenth MP
- feature. I used to play MP for years (EAW, then
- Warbirds, then Il-2 and then FB) but the interest
- has worn off. I am concentrating on the Single
- Player Campaign and I am not interested in this
- "changeable strategic layer". I mean I'd like to see
- a historical representation of the events - not
- necessarily a "what-if" campaign as in Rowan's BoB
- ...



I should hope that the product would definitively cater to that desire as well. IMO, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to simply have the AI follow history and let the player plug him/herself in wherever they choose with the game running in a stand-alone environment (e.g. not Multiplayer or MMORPG). Be it a fighter pilot, or some other role, it would already be there...just hop in and play.

Message Edited on 10/07/0307:16AM by Bully_Lang

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 12:18 PM
Of course - I didn't mean to take stuff off MP, but right now I'd say a damn good Single Player Campaign is more necessary than many people realize. I mean the Multiplayer Folks are vocal, but in reality they are a very small minority. Catering the game features to their liking might bring peace and happiness to the boards, but might hamper sales ... IMO there has to be a definite balance between those two parts, but I'd prefer to see more work put into the SP part.

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 12:57 PM
as for the italian campaign, a nice URL

http://www.dalnet.se/~surfcity/falco_bob.htm

no radios /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
pilots suffered from cold weather in open pits /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

watch the Rearview mirrors of the Emils pls /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/franky.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 01:08 PM
Smaller gun flames.



-----------
Due to pressure from the moderators, the sig returns to..

"It's the machine, not the man." - Materialist, and proud of it!

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 02:59 PM
Why not that BOB simulation will have some campaiges that able cover between Battle for Poland September 1939 to November 1939 then Battle for France and Low Countries between October 1939 and June 1940 then Battle for British between June 1940 and November 1940? Or keep fight on after November 1940 as low level intruder raid/fighter sweep/close escort bombers until late 1942. Many earlier campiage are forgetten battles in many games as BOB itself is very unforgetten battle that saw in many games. I had see many BOB games had give short attention span along players played on it.

Regards
SnowLeopard

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 06:21 PM
And some REAL maps plz! Not something made of LEGO.

Master

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 06:34 PM
Remember that hurricane mission in EAW where you were vectored to a formation of 2-engine bombers with 109s as escort and suddenly you realized that they were 110s posing as a bomber formation with 109s as escort - damn that was cool !

my request would be an emphasis on mission variety. since BoB is a rather limited campaign in SOME ways.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 08:08 PM
hi all,

Ok first start wiht the great german asold to the west , bahtlle of france and low country`s or early on Denmark/Norway.
there was some great airborne action in it that never was in any flightsim like the Narvik operations and glider landing on Fort Eban Emaal near Maastricht in Belgium or the Duinkerk operation.
And than grow to the big BOB batlles.
Buht...... dont forget to puht in Flyable bombers/Groundatack/Recon/Transports and try to reduce A.I. plane`s , its a lot fun if we cane fly al type of plane`s and do all sort of action and not only DF action.
And if u do start in Denmark/Norway give us the Aircraft carrier from the Great Britain Navy to.
From April 1940 till the end of 1940 there was a lot of unknow biplane and early 1930 plane`s action wiht the modern 1940 planetype`s.
Like the fokker G1 , D520 , MS406/410 , Gloster Gladiator , Fiat Cr42 , Hawker Hurricane MK1a (two blade prop) , LeO 451, Bristal Blenheim IF , Br20`s , Do17p/Do215 , Ju86 , HP Harrow , Blackburn B-24 Skua , Amiot-143 , farman F-222 , Potez-54 , Hs-123 , Curtis P-36 , Me109C/D/E , Ju88 and many more.

Hope that oleg consider it.
S! I/KG26_Oranje

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 09:35 PM
some training would be good
oh and radar couldnt tell plane type
so ud get 30 incoming, could be bombers or 109's

flertin with the ground control /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
dunkurk, would be intense, going after e boats etc
scamble missions
scrap the 1 at a time take offs and landings, i think they had to get all planes off as fast as poss, so it was more like that scamble campaign
PROPER SOUNDS FOR SPITFIRE
it sounds wubbly /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
newspaper reports
time honoured spinning into screen way /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
ill haveto read some biggles again /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
more chacactors,
speaches made by politicians
units being sent around the world too
oh and squadrens being rotated/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
and pilots doing what they did irl, like a czech guy, who would do lone wolf /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
oh and britian used its high speed steam trains, bombing those would be fun
could do 100mph easy btw /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
126mph was max

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 09:49 PM
mini games would be good
just thought of it, they used to play cards, cricket, etc
oh and racing around the perimiter tracks too
sliverstone is such a example /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 10:18 PM
Would be nice to have some kind of first person element on the ground something like bf1942 so you can man the AA guns if you broke your plane. Also on CO-OP missons be able to jump into one of the AI planes if you have bought it. Not too real though I don't have much time to go on line so don't want to spend the evening in a P.O.W camp or looking into a 1940's radar tube.Idea for mission: Being posted to 7 OTU RAF Station Howarden. Gazing with awe and exitement at the battered collection of MK 1 Spits. Then a few hours on the Master so as to become familiar with the modern sophistications and the high speed of the monoplane. Then at last solo in the Spit. In the evening in the tent that was the bar. A glass of beer and a chat with the instructors. Near by two Spits parked up. Fully armed. Its not dark yet cloud base 2000ft. A burst of machine gun fire. A Dornier 17 slips out of the cloud.The Duty instructor leaps into the nearsest plane and is off no regard for wind. Just goes straight for the Bomber.You see no one has got into the other Spit. In the real thing Sqnd Leader JR Hallings-Pott got the Dornier and landed 3 minutes after taking off.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 10:30 PM
Emphasizing on a strong historical, almost educational, game play with possibility to run "what if" scenarios. Here is a good site, http://www.battleofbritain.net/.

Read and learn.

Master

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 11:09 PM
i belive they used tape to repair the bullet holes, this was often red or something, so having that would be cool
imagine being the uk red baron, of sticky tape /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 12:27 AM
important questions about the Italians: will they have they're own campaign? what planes will they have? and will there be potential for an expansion pack to BoB for the Med?

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 01:24 AM
Hmmm.. lets see HOLLYWOOD is making a movie BOB..and now a game BOB is being made..I wounder if they will come out the same time ....HMMMMM

Makes me think a bit ../i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif

Chin up ..HUTCH


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XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 02:33 AM
Recon maps? Fly mission allow appropriate zoom in bomb site! Over target, take screen shot, bmp. Go's to recon folder game root! After mission use simple in game editor to view recon bmp. And circle targets next mission strike, in-flight map, with button to toggle recon bmp. The use of recon photos for mission builders could open some very different and interesting missions! Also strike missions could be dependent on successful recon missions in campaign? Or the recon bmp.s could be used for damage assessment in mission debriefings!

<img src="http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/D13-Hamm109 copy.jpg"

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 03:03 AM
Has anyone read "Invasion 1940" By Kenneth Macksey?
ISBN: 0025780301

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 05:13 AM
i) Gesture support for flight commands, similar to gestures used in Black & White and now in web browsers such as Opera. Hold down a button or key, move the joystick left and right or in a certain sequence, and the game translates this into a flight command for any friendly aircraft in range. Perhaps useful for aircraft without radios or to keep radio silence.

ii) Dynamicly loaded maps such as those used in Dungeon Siege, whereby the terrain is loaded in around the players POV as they fly around the map. Reduces the need for massive memory-hungry static maps being loaded into memory when the player can only see a small portion of it at once. Could be very useful if the game is to keep track of each destroyed object on a map - no need to store a state for each object, just load it in when the object approaches visual range.

iii) As other people have mentioned, dynamic weather would be nice. Other than just having "rain" or "sunny" locations on the map, it would be very easy to do a simple bare bones emulation of weather conditions - temperature and barometric pressure for certain locations on the map. When these reached certain values they would precipitate a chance in weather. This would help keep the weather system both dynamic and persistent across missions.

iv) For the non-historical dynamic campaign, use a system whereby a dollar ammount can be allocated by the player [as a "general"] for various functions. Increasing spending in pilot training slows the rate at which pilots appear in the ranks, but increases their skill when they show up. Increasing spending in research allows newer types of planes to appear more quickly, or more slowly if spending is reduced. Bombing Research sites or training fields would also influence the uptake of new craft or pilots, perhaps tied into a "civilian morale" and "military morale" system.

v) Ability to set "Standing orders" for AI craft. Tell the AI to fight to the death over the essentially important targets as the defenders. Or tell the AI to preserve themselves and their planes, making them pull out of formation and return to base if the situation deteriorates in the air, or as soon as they take damage for the attackers.

More later.


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XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 06:09 AM
Could we expand that idea about watching your aircraft being refueled and reloaded to having th ewhole base look somewhat alive? I would like to see some limited apsect of ground crews working on the base as we take off and land from the base. Would give a sense of urgency as you see them working frantically to get a damaged Hurricane working again or loading bombs from a lift to a bomber. Probably give a reason to protect the base if you landed and see your favorite pub in cinders.

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 06:22 AM
ColoradoBBQ wrote:
- Could we expand that idea about watching your
- aircraft being refueled and reloaded to having th
- ewhole base look somewhat alive? I would like to
- see some limited apsect of ground crews working on
- the base as we take off and land from the base.
- Would give a sense of urgency as you see them
- working frantically to get a damaged Hurricane
- working again or loading bombs from a lift to a
- bomber. Probably give a reason to protect the base
- if you landed and see your favorite pub in cinders.
-
-



I like these ideas. Wouldn't it be nice if one had to actually walk/run to your plane waiting on a busy tarmac?

Instead of spawning into your cockpit ready to go, have the pilot character spawn into a breifing room or some type of ready area (playing card games with other pilots for example) and from there have to scramble to their mounts waiting for them on the tarmac or in shelters, etc.

Ground crew and other non-player characters milling about "tending to their duties", even interacting with the player would be awesome. Give the AF a visceral feeling and sense of life and purpose.

Good stuff! I like this thread!
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 06:22 AM
hope it not just planes up to 1940

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 05:35 PM
One thing I always dreamt of was having a flight sim on the scale of Rowan's Battle of Britain, but with the graphics, damage model, flight models, etc, etc, etc, of Il2.

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 06:11 PM
idea:employ a competent sound engineer....

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 06:50 PM
In the addon and in the BoB please make things work. I would prefer to see my mixture control set and the levers work. All the controls working, canopy opening as well as the door. Landing with an open canopy and taking off is quite fun.

PLEASE put in carriers for early carrier opps.

Yes they were there just towards the end if not please consider Operation Torch firt joint operation between British and Americans on the tip of north africa.

Or just make a map that includes the europe and the Med with carriers and you would make a lot of people happy.

Bear

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 07:05 PM
Code for carrier ops! Later Med add-on with carrier! What could be better than taking off of carrier's in this game engine?



<img src="http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/D13-Hamm109 copy.jpg"

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 07:34 PM
Ben Affleck, I want him as pilot choice. Whenever Ben is in my spit, it gets extra 300hp boost and guns do super Hollywood gonzo damage!

Oh yea, if plane set is limited to 1940 for the life of BOB sim, that would be a shame.




Message Edited on 10/08/0306:35PM by CrackFerret

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 08:16 PM
Mediterranean and North Africa maps and 1941 British, German and Italian AC. I'm soooo easy to please /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

S!

SKULLS_LZ

SKULLS Squadron VF-98
"We Service What We Smell"

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 10:13 PM
For those who prefer full immersion, we need working cockpit switches and dials (at least ones we already use for CEM) which could be manipulated by mouse (on the screen it could appear as a hand reaching and turning switches). The ability to disable the use of keyboards instead of "real" switches should be one of the options. I am sure FR mode fans would love that.

Speaking of immersion, we need to fill up empty cockpits with animated legs (similar to LOMAC) and hands. If gore is contemplated in BoB, wounds can be modeled as well.

Also, maps on lap can be added. This way one must look down to look at it.

Regards,
BusySilent

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 04:40 AM
i dont care as long as it has spitfires lol, but it would be neat if they could make huge formations of bombers without having your computer explode

well my name was spelled wrong

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 09:54 AM
Saburo_0 wrote:
- I think BoB is a good choice simply because it is
- the single most significant aerial (only) battle
- ever fought.
-
- They should add Walter Cronkites reports from London
- ! I wonder if it would be expensive to use them ?
- Can you imagine completing a mission. landing ,
- entering a barracks & listening to real life radio
- from the time !?
-
- Music would be nice to & real newspaper headlines.



Movie footage along with the radio would be killer. I know its out there, and would add much to the immersion me thinks.

radio chatter online! Just allow us to use the radio communication for online games. Again, immersion. Key.

Online, implementing objective based dogfight games would capture the type of battles that occured more accurately. Timers, # of planes to shoot down, AI planes, anything.





Your Post Could Not Be Completed Because:

Board is busy currently unable to post.

Please make any needed corrections and try again.

Fish itchy

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 01:37 PM
Speaking of immersion, it would be nice to be able to have a peek into a functional control room in Group's HQ with WAAFs (Women's Auxiliary Air Force) moving triangular block with flags indicating size and direction of German raids; and of course, if you in AC, we must hear voices of controllers who provide you with vectors of incoming bombers.

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 01:52 PM
It's got to be pilot rescue missions for me!

Raf squadron loses one or more pilots over the channel, and the Short sunderlands are sent out on a search and rescue op to spot the life dinghys and rescue the pilots!

that means, instead of the pilots bailed lying on the ocean bed and being safe from drowning like IL2, they should inflate life rafts etc etc.

these in turn can be strafed.

also another pet hate for IL2 is a plane hitting water at excessive speeds just sink!
we want concrete water, after all hitting water at 500mph + would result in the same end as hitting concrete from anything above about 500m.

oh and last but not least, more gore! If a pilot is dead in the cockpit splatter the canopy with the red stuff, so i know he's dead. I see too many people crash as a result of following and aircraft with a dead pilot into the ground.

Cheers. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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"You can teach monkeys to fly better than that! Spring chicken to S.h.y.t.e.h.a.w.k in 3 easy lessons"

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 01:55 PM
Oh yeah and make the voices of the RAF Ground control female, because most of the personnel in the op rooms of the RAF were women!

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"You can teach monkeys to fly better than that! Spring chicken to S.h.y.t.e.h.a.w.k in 3 easy lessons"

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 02:02 PM
What is the time scale for BoB?

The opportunity to fly a few Rhubarbs would be good ... but they would have been from the end of 1940.

Rhubarbs were strikes against occupied France flown by RAF fighters, designed to stir up the LW.
Essentially vulching missions.

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Unless I've corrected it here <MAP NAME="paint_sig_003"><AREA SHAPE="rect" COORDS="0,159,199,199" HREF="http://www.il2airracing.com" TARGET="_blank" alt="Air Racing" title="Air Racing"><AREA SHAPE="rect" COORDS="0,0,199,159" HREF="http://www.robert-stuart.me.uk/" title="Painter's home page" alt="Painter's home page"><AREA SHAPE="rect" COORDS="199,0,399,199" HREF="http://www.robert-stuart.me.uk/il2/index.html" TARGET="_blank" alt="Painter's IL2 Pages" title="Painter's IL2 Pages">
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XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 02:28 PM
Along with the normal monitor view, it would be nice to the sim compatible with widescreen monitors that are becoming more and more popular everyday. I know Sony now has a 24 by 21 inch monitor now and I have seen plans for many other companies to do the same. I have also read that other computer games have the capability to do this. It would really add to the situational awareness for a larger view.

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 05:33 PM
In the campaign:

-As CsThor noted, have the historical units tied to their historical aircraft and airfield locations

-Pilot wounds: implement wound badges (it could possibly be a separate section from "regular" awards). Also, if the player is wounded, his persona will miss a certain amount of time before returning to combat.

-Cut scenes: in Aces over Europe / Pacific, when you received a medal, were promoted, or were killed(!), a 5-10 second cut scene played on the screen. If you were awarded a medal, for instance, at the end of the cut scene a pic of the medal would be shown, and little gleam of light would glitter off the medal. Something similiar could be done, I'm sure, with receiving a promotion in rank.

-The ability to decide which pilots will fly the next mission, once the player has reached a commanding rank. This could work its way up, for instance, from schwarm to staffel to gruppe.

-Pilot morale influencing the AI's aggresiveness during a mission.

I/JG54^Lukas
He 162 A-2 Cockpit Modeler
...and soon the Hs 129 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 07:13 PM
@ Lukas

Already working on the unit/planetype thing ... For Il-2 and FB I was too late but this time I have a year /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

BTW /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<div align=center>
http://home.arcor.de/csthor/bilder/bobjagdwaffeemblems.jpg
<font size=-2>Jagdwaffe "Battle of Britain"</font>

http://home.arcor.de/csthor/bilder/bobdestrwaffeemblems.jpg
<font size=-2>Zerst√¬∂rerwaffe "Battle of Britain"</font>
</div>

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

---------------------------
http://home.t-online.de/home/340045970094-0001/lwskins_banner_gross.jpg (http://www.lwskins.de.vu)
Historical Skins for Luftwaffe-Fighters

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 05:55 AM
Pilot view after you bail out! And hot key to pop chute so you can free fall out of danger!

Also if they'd fix this forum we could have a sticky for the mods to just list all this stuff so Oleg, if he is interested could just scroll down the list! Instead of reading though what's going to be 3 or 4 hundred posts, much of it a repeated..

Message Edited on 10/09/0311:08PM by D13-th_Hamm109

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 06:11 AM
Containing myself to campaign and mission ideas only.

I'd like to see a comprehensive Norway/Scotland/Nth Sea map for Winter & Summer. All those fjords will give the map-team RSI of course /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Then we could have a Battle for Norway, a Murmansk convoy scenario (CAM duty anyone?), a Channel Dash and the fjordlands/Tirpitz campaign *cough*beaufighters*cough*

<center>
Read the <a href=http://www.mudmovers.com/sturmovik_101/FAQ.htm>IL2 FAQ</a>
Got Nimrod? Try the unofficial <A HREF=http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=4&sid=4870c2bc08acb0f130e5e3396d08d595>OT forum</A>

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 09:56 AM
Adding the Battle of France, and if possible POland and Normay would be very interesting because :
- For the British and German : longer timeframe
- Greater variety of missions, with both sides having the opportunity to attack and defend
- The opportunity to fly aircraft seldom modelled : French aircraft of 1940, with very challenging mission ("9 109 for 1 french bomber : the normal proportion", said a pilot).
- Compared with Bob : part of France will be usable : less maps to add.
- Most german aircraft were involved in both campaigns

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 02:04 PM
Has anyone mentioned Rudolph Hess' mad flight to Scotland?

Trying to do that at night, avoiding British air defences might be a fun single mission. Not sure if it was during the BoB though...

So even if Rudolph is out of the question, perhaps in the campaign we could have spy missions: insertions and extractions.

IV/JG7_4Shades

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 03:11 PM
S~,

I have an idea but it is not a campaign or mission. I hope I'm not too far off topic but here goes... how about being able to "multi-crew" a bomber. Such as having more than one person being able to load up in a bomber. We all know that BoB was a massive bombing campaign and I think it would fit in quite nicely. You could have 3 or 4 in a bomber; one could pilot, one could be bombardier, and the others could man gun stations. It would have to be programmed to where AI would control any "unmanned" gun or bomber positions but I have seen this done before. It would also be cool if any "unmanned" gun stations (not manned by an actual human player) could be switched to and taken over. This is just an idea but it would present a whole new avenue to explore. In addition to fighter squadrons, there would be bomber crews and squadrons also. I am an old-timer and used to play a game called Air Warrior II. You could crew up in bombers on that game and it was a blast! Well, this was just a suggestion and once again I hope I wasn't too far off topic. Thanks for the opportunity to express my opinion here as most developers and game companies do not offer that opportunity!

Thanks again,
Serpent out

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 04:35 PM
eiffel68 wrote:
- Real Newsreel clips between some missions.



yes!!!! a better atmosphere would be the most important thing for me. real (!) videoclips like in EAW just more. very very cool would be to have some kind of story like in wing comander with barracks and people to visit, to receive awards and have a changing story line.

that is one big minus on fb... too little atmosphere... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

---------------------------------------



http://homepage.ntlworld.com/paul.bryant3/ETSigGermany.gif




under 30k?

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 05:25 PM
CsThor's wishes are the easiest to fulfill. It is also a type of campaign that I personally would like to play http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

An association between a plane, a skin and a squadron is something you will likely see much earlier than BoB. It is done for a new DGen which will appear in one or two commercial addons. An airfield is not there, but it is not a big deal to add, and will make much more sense in BoB scenario which is mostly static in this aspect.

More responsibility for a leader is something that definitely will be there. Realistically, of course a decision what to strike was not taken at all at level this low. Making your wingman and your plane links much more persistent might also appear even before BoE. It requires some changes in how FB works, but I discussed it, and the changes do not seem difficult.

The bigger problem is to make a grand strategy layer also possible and interesting and not to break it for people like CsThor for whom an option to really invade England will spoil everything http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. But it is doable, no doubt.

Online campaign is not a problem. In fact, it also may appear even before BoB.

But I wonder what are your ideas on online campaign specifically for BoB. What kind of planning and a choice can be done for this theater by both sides? (those who play VEF2 know what I mean). Or is it just a random sequence of online missions closer to VEF1 without too much choice?




Message Edited on 10/10/0312:26PM by Starshoy

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 05:48 PM
tonedogbf110 wrote:
- that means, instead of the pilots bailed lying on
- the ocean bed and being safe from drowning like IL2,
- they should inflate life rafts etc etc.
-
- these in turn can be strafed.
-
Do you mean strafed lifeboat? Galland told his fellow pilots to not do that( not allow shoot at pilot in parachute). Also Molder not allow pilot to strafed cilivan train as he saw one before that result, he lectured them what different between military and cilivan target.

Regards
SnowLeopard

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 05:52 PM
Master.Mariner wrote:
- Emphasizing on a strong historical, almost
- educational, game play with possibility to run "what
- if" scenarios. Here is a good site, http://www.battleofbritain.net/.
-
- Read and learn.
-Thank you a lot. look good as I am start read it.

Regards
SnowLeopard

Message Edited on 10/10/0311:58AM by WereSnowleopard

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 08:02 PM
Starshoy, thanks for your Info. I will keep on collecting skins. Looking forward the new DGen.

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 08:18 PM
Re: the association Planetype - Skin - Unit

In my opinion there should be more "Default Skins" coming with tThis "Battle of Britain" game than those with FB or Il-2. I mean take a look at the 109's of that era! Each Staffel has a different paintscheme and in my book recreating them shouldn't be that difficult.

---------------------------
http://home.t-online.de/home/340045970094-0001/lwskins_banner_gross.jpg (http://www.lwskins.de.vu)
Historical Skins for Luftwaffe-Fighters

Message Edited on 10/10/0308:19PM by csThor

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 12:54 AM
One thing, I knew for true is everyone will go for most best plane to fly in BOB as not accrute in history as lot of British squadrons fly Hurricane I and some German pilots have to fly Bf-110 even sometime in Stuka which are easy prey. Why not have strict control what pilots have to fly also if player fly less performance plane and did best combat performace that will get bigger award and promotion fast plus bonus stuff.

Also other idea, why not when enter campiage, select squadron instead of plane and C/O will supply you a plane.

Also similar to difficulty setting, you can setting realistic historic (squadron use exact planes and station{location} when playing) or fantasic setting (any planes, squadron and bases) What do you think?

Regards
SnowLeopard

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 05:36 AM
How about add legendry figure like Sailor, Bader, Galland, Molder and more as player's C/O in briefing room giving lecture, give award, give hard time, and other stuff even possbile fly with players. Using accruted Jadg/Sqd to be command by lengendry figure that players will fly for them. Also player in different Jadg/Sqd, may can play hard to get noticed by legendry leader to ask player to accept offer for transfer to their clan or not. Also possbile will promotion high if stay in Sqd/Jadg then will become C/O of Grupp/Wing or bigger.

Regards
SnowLeopard

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 06:28 AM
Suggestion for BOB ...

Have pilots chatting around their huts ... on scramble ... one guy rings the bell ... and all pilots run to their mounts ... like Ctrl E in reverse but on the ground ...[ I love the way they run with a purpose ]... instead of cringing on the ground ... hopping up on the wing and into the office. <visions of Bader lifting his tinnies in too> with crewman helping with straps ... before hitting the I key and taxy to take-off.

PS Thanx for the NEC Show ... brilliant previews of the Jan addon fo FB ... can't wait.

DDD

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 08:59 AM
Yes, I hope there are big open grass fields with massed take-offs like they really happened. None of this long line of waiting planes. I thought we were going to be able to do that with these new patches. bigger airfields for line abreast take offs. Ahhhhhh. something for the future I reckon.

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 12:42 PM
I'd love to see all of Britain covered, not just Southern England. Industrial towns in the North of England and Scotland were bombed too.
Maybe a far fetched idea, but I'd like the ability to man AA guns, radar screens and command posts. The idea of a human manned defence network is amazing.

=======================================

(H).

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 04:21 PM
how about modeling the real training planes used?

Start short campaign out in Canada (where else?) and train with the Commonweath Air Service then move over to Britain.

Same with the Germans...model in some of the Heinkel bi-planes originaly used for training...

Okay, I admit not very interesting, I just wanted to get something from Canada thrown in...we did train the huge, huge majority of Commonwealth pilots after all

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 06:56 PM
one of person made good point that play BOB is like claustrophobic to channel area if limit to BOB only. That's why I suggest we have wide area war like BOP, Sitzkreig, BOF&low countries then final one BOB. What's you think?

Regards
SnowLeopard

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 07:40 PM
I read my posted message about which Italian plane will players like to fly in BOB campaige, one person said CR.42 always will not fly due to meteorological conditions effect to open cockpit, I wonder about Hurricane pilot always like had window slide back opening when flying. Maybe they do when it is sunny day. So if players want modeling to be able open window while flying then we should model "open cockpit's effect to meteorological conditions"

Regards
SnowLeopard

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 06:37 AM
I hope I haven't missed a post ... but I haven't yet seen the suggestion to include the option to allow some heroines of the Air Transport Auxilliary [among whom were Amy Johnson, Diana Barnato Walker and Anne Welsh as featured in a recent TV programme] to deliver replacement Spits and Hurri's to the Squadron Airfields from the factories ... all through the B o B. I noted quite a few of the "gentler sex" immersed in simming including on Il-2 and FB add-ons at ECFS 2003. We need more of them to keep us supplied!

DDD

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 10:34 AM
Personally, I see this sim as an opportunity to have the airial war over Britain very finely detailed. More detail should be possible here than trying to do every campaign over the whole of Russia.
Perhaps this is an opportunity for Maddox to give us the entire war in the skies over Britain, not just 1940.
For example in 1944 we could have the RAF intercepting He111 over the north sea carrying V1s, or intercepting V1 over Britain itself. Also, we could have small numbers of He177, or the intereption of lone Arado234s in 1945.
In fact, everything from 1939-1945 that occured over Britain could be moddelled here. There have already been 101 different flightsims covering just the Battle of Britain itself.

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 01:45 PM
Starshoy wrote:

- An association between a plane, a skin and a
- squadron is something you will likely see much
- earlier than BoB. It is done for a new DGen which
- will appear in one or two commercial addons.

Good to read that. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I/JG54^Lukas
He 162 A-2 Cockpit Modeler
...and soon the Hs 129 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-13-2003, 11:00 AM
I would like to be able to start a campaign during the Bob, and then keep on with Il2:FB on the eastern front for Luftwaffe pilots.
That way, it could be possible to simulate the whole war for German pilots.

XyZspineZyX
10-13-2003, 10:31 PM
Bombholes! :O for runway destruction.
Dynamic campaign like was in Falcon4.
Realtime war that a server can just leave running, (maybe reboot once in a while to keep it running good) but save everyones status so that we can rejoin where we left off. That way, if you go down the pub everynight and your aircraft hanger gets bombed, your a gonner! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
also, a repair rate on the hangers and runway (those craters) so that you can return to your homebase when its repaired sufficiently.
also, transferring to another base, you just fly there and land. more realistic than Falcon4 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif .

also, if airfield is totally destroyed and paratroopers are deployed the airfield is enemy. both sides cannot use airfield until at least one building has been repaired.

would be great to see people making an effort to fly at night to defend their country! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

thank you!
Shrike

XyZspineZyX
10-13-2003, 10:47 PM
oh, one more thing, in addition to the above....

would be good to make distinction between what ground target at airfield has been hit. i.e if a tower gets hit, aircraft wont recieve radio transmission from the airfield.
If hangers get hit, then only planes are lost, and if the Pilots quarters are hit, the pilots who arent flying are killed.
also, make aircraft production relate to real war, i.e, like 1 new plane per day, or whatever it was, but tailor it to how many pilots are in the game, so that we dont have so many planes that you neednt worry about losing any.

thanks again
Shrike

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 08:24 PM
I wonder possible both sides can be lost or win in end of BOB campiage?

Regards
SnowLeopard

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 08:41 PM
some historical stuff like the Eagle Day attacks and the massacre of the Stukas.

also worth contemplating, ammo QUALITY. For instance I've read somewhere that the majority of British fighters that were attacked by the Germans were only damaged due to the fact that 20mm shells failed to explode at certain key moments. Same thing for the British, "stuffy"spread versus 250 yards.

I'm a crappy pilot, but one hell of a shot.

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 08:05 PM
jensenpark wrote:
- how about modeling the real training planes used?
-
- Start short campaign out in Canada (where else?) and
- train with the Commonweath Air Service then move
- over to Britain.
-
- Same with the Germans...model in some of the Heinkel
- bi-planes originaly used for training...
-
- Okay, I admit not very interesting, I just wanted to
- get something from Canada thrown in...we did train
- the huge, huge majority of Commonwealth pilots after
- all
-
-



I don't know about not very interesting - a training programme could really work for the offline campaigns, esp. if you don't get posted to a squadron if you fail!

Another suggestion along these lines: two-seater training a/c, where two players online/on a LAN etc could hand over pilot control to each other. This would be pretty useful for online squads when assessing new pilots.

Cheers!


<CENTER>


<IMG SRC="http://www.apqa16.dsl.pipex.com/airplane1.3.jpg"


Ladies & gentlemen, this is the captain speaking. Thankyou for choosing to fly Mandarin Airlines. Those passengers sitting on the left-hand side of the aeroplane please make yourselves comfortable. Those sitting on the right... please look to your left!

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 08:08 PM
How about the ability to switch on external views once the mission is complete and you have landed, or have bailed out or been killed?
I like playing with external views off but it's pretty frustrating not being able to see what else is happening as soon as I'm dead.
A view from beyond the grave please! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Cheers!

<CENTER>


<IMG SRC="http://www.apqa16.dsl.pipex.com/airplane1.3.jpg"


Ladies & gentlemen, this is the captain speaking. Thankyou for choosing to fly Mandarin Airlines. Those passengers sitting on the left-hand side of the aeroplane please make yourselves comfortable. Those sitting on the right... please look to your left!

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 11:32 PM
My request is to concentrate on map detail , put all the relevent fields on both sides of the channel, Biggen Hill, Abbeville, etc etc. and detailed cities and targets. It should not be too difficult to make London , for instance, BIG and detailed, Trafalger square, buckingham palace, London bridge, and so on...incendary fires...also lots of channel shipping targets. Maybe military army bases to attack too.Grant scores for ground targets such as ammo dumps, bases and buldings too, not just vehicles. One weak spot with FB, not enough different ground targets.

Lev /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 12:12 AM
>I wonder possible both sides can be lost or win in end of >BOB campiage?

>Regards
>SnowLeopard

Yes, in hypothetical campaign Germans will be able to
invade and you will have control over strategic decisions.

In realistic campaign missions will follow history and your only influence will be your life, your kills, ranks, medals and your squadron.

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 10:27 AM
CS_Thor's idea of squadron markings and everything else are extremely tempting! Concerning medals and rank, lots of the AotP/AoE and EAW stuff, like short movies, documents showing date, place and reason for the award - these ideas of ground action like pilots in tents and mechanics refueling your plane also sound breathtaking.

XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 03:33 AM
I maybe way out there for suggesting this one but I have read that defensive armament on the Do17 and the He111 were not that great (commonly known fact), but some bomber crews resorted to other means to keep british fighters off their backs. Do17 crews were reported to string tin cans on lengths of wire and trail them behind the aircraft in hopes of fouling the pursuing fighter's prop. Some He111 crews resorted to throwing hand grenades out the windows. I've read this somewhere, and I don't know if it is true or not, but thing about coming up on a bomber, closing the distance for your shot, and suddenly you see something fluttering in front of your plane and realize it's a ration can on wire, but it's too late! The wire gets tangled in your prop and your going down.

http://www.tarrif.net/img/fordnut_sig.jpg


Don't know what Windhund is? Check us out at http://www.windhund.org

XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 05:50 AM
Should include an AI Ground controller that will vector scrambled fighters onto target formation.

" Foxtrot Blue Leader Make Angels 15 vector 105 for intercept "

I love that kind of talk!!!!!!!.

Would if some sort of plotting table display was available so online players could be vectored on coms by a Squad mate who couldnt fit into the mission.

Hmm.... this code could be useful in Pacific carrier games or for vectoring german fighters into bomber streams.


Cheers
Shark

XyZspineZyX
10-21-2003, 08:22 AM
Very simple idea. Entire 1940 could be in BoB sim. It could start with Denamrk and Norway, the Low Countries, France, while BoB itself would be a highpoint of a game. This would be an excellent opportunity to include all sorts of aircraft in the game (like Fokker XXI, Gloster Gladiators, Fairey Battles, Curtiss 75s, Defiants, Loire et Oliviers, Potez, etc.). Sim would be, in start, uncomparable with any other sim, because there would be so many of relatively obsolete and interesting aircraft that no other sim did offer. Also, many of these aircraft weren't used after this period, so this in fact represents a unique and quite a separate chapter of WWII.

XyZspineZyX
10-21-2003, 08:36 AM
If this could be done in the next sim, it would be absolutely fantastic.

XyZspineZyX
10-21-2003, 10:28 AM
If you guys, remember Pacific Strike of Origin, immersion was EXCELLENT !

At the end of each mission u were in the carrier mess of the Enterprise, you could talk to some of your pilots (not the same each time) and they we're talking about last mission (everything was scripted) and historical features like progressions of the Japs who've taken some new islands etc etc. And somehow, when u assited to briefing (not reading a poor sheet whith your mission order but listening to your flight leader or the captain) he was telling you that the last advance of Japs needed to be encountered so u were dropped in a bomber instead of your fighter. Immersion was just brilliant and game was released in 1994 i think.

The only game with the dynamix series which had that kind of immersion.

Immersion is so important to feel vulnerable to ennemy bullets.

XyZspineZyX
10-21-2003, 04:31 PM
Dam buster missions please

"Is the poop-deck really what i think it is?" -Homer Simpson

XyZspineZyX
10-21-2003, 07:43 PM
Single Missions:
Choose to fly any aircraft that actually participated in any one day's mission.
Have each day's actual situation with all aircraft that participated available to fly.
Have the option to fly the BoB as an actual historical pilot flying the mission that were actually flown....

"Nothing difficult is ever easy"

XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 03:17 PM
I wondering if 1c would consider adding the battle of france into the battle of britian, I've read that bob will include less planes the previous 1c flight sims. To me thats a really bad thing and the reason I refuse to buy lomac is becuase there will be only 8 flyable planes.

<center>http://www.freewebs.com/leadspitter/LS1.txt
Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter</center>

XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 09:03 PM
Don't forget the channel convois. At the beginning of the conflict the most attacks was aimed against these british and us ships.

It would even be greate to have the battle between the bismark and the hood as a mission.

Patrols should be another possible kind of missions. like finding german submarines or english convois.

And don't forget the Ar-196 and He-115, please

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 04:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Since rumor has it CEM will be implemented in greater detail I think a crew chief /mechanic to interact with would be a nice touch after all it's his plane i just fly it

Even if only a checklist sheet to go over pre- post ops would be realistic. (tho overkill for some people so should be an option to just have CEM as it is now IMHO)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

great idea, much as in B17 The Mighty Eighth. If we have to fly an aircraft that has developed some eccentricities over time, we want to know about it. And.. we want the aircraft to have its own personality over time.

As in

CREWCHIEF: Well Lieutenant, I've done my best, but watch the rad temperature. Try to keep her below 2500 RPM. And don't hold that trigger down too long or your cannon will freeze up tight.

And we want that cannon to fail on occasion /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 05:45 PM
Hi,

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies to those already suggesting these...

a. How about properly camoflagued British airbases; the runways were often painted so as to blend with the surroundings - not like Il-2 where runways are easily identified.

This causes the player to have to know their own base surroundings in order to realise where to land when low on fuel/damaged/etc.

Also, it makes it more difficult for the enemy crews to identify their targets.

b. In relation to a., how about properly 'dynamic' campaigns incorporating varying levels of German intelligence information regarding targets (depending on weather/survivability of previous raids and/or recon aircraft?

c. In line with b, RAF intelligence and ground vectoring capability/accuracy affected by how many radar stations are in action etc. Obviously, this is a 'little' unfair as Luftwaffe will know to go after radar (unlike the real battle).

d. Solid to patchy ground vectoring instructions to simulate last minute scrambles to massive enemy formations alongside more il-2 style standing patrol missions.

e. Presumably, it will be a must to model 109s having extremely limited time over England thus leaving their bombers unescorted and having a desperate time to reach France following a sortie.

Cheers,
Norris

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 08:14 PM
I thought about this some time ago and was going to suggest the idea for a future expansion of IL-2 FB, but this idea was formed mainly from thinking over the history of the BoB which makes it perfect now.

This idea is only for on-line gaming and would not be so good when playing in one-player-mode.

The idea is to have an option of acting as controller in an on-line mission. There has been much written in history about the vital role "Home Chain" the Observer corps and other roles played by intelligence in the success of the RAF in the BoB. Being faced by many fighters and bombers, and often outnumbered, the RAF's capability to be in the right place at the right time was paramount, and all of this was achieved because of the role that the Control room played.

To be able to simulate this would be great, I know I can hear the comments from the Luftwaffe pilots out there saying it would be unfair, but in most sorties the RAF was always outnumbered, and faced odds which where against them.

The in game controller would have a board similar to that used in a real control room, this would be updated by the information gathered and fed to the control room by Home Chain and other intelligence. The in game controller set-up would detect and label the aircraft from the Player/Aircraft screen in game and label the four plane sections accordingly. The markers for friendly and enemy aircraft sections/squadrons would then be automatically plotted on the chart in accordance with their position in game, Height/Altitude markers provided. The controller could then order squadron take offs, vectors to intercept etc, from the various bases at his disposal and position the forces for the greatest effect using in game text or voice comms.

That will give your programmers something to think about Oleg, it was great seeing you again at the Flight Sim show

Zulu

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 08:31 PM
(Delete)

Message Edited on 10/24/0306:13PM by sauron6

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 09:17 PM
if oleg had to listen to some people's advice he and his team would have to spend the rest of their lives developing a strategy game with role playing elements driven by uber-complex AI routines... why? i want the guys at 1c to focus their efforts on the sim, and i think that makes sense, enough of this ridicolous what-if scenarios, if you want that kind of stuff go out and buy a strategy game... just give us a good mission editor, period, if you want a dynamic campaign find some ppl on the internet sharing your same interest and have somebody "gm" the campaign, is it that hard? im doing this with my squadron and it's great... hence, a good mission generator is enough: no dynamic campaign, and no single-missions based pilot career either... oh, you want a pilot career? i heard somebody say "it would be so nice if you could implement human relationships in the squadrons and..." GROW UP AND OPEN UP YOUR EYES!!!!! if you want that kind of stuff (and i like it too trust me), we have the INTERNET out there!!!! find some ppl to roleplay with and you'll have the best rp'ing experience ever!!! but no you have to make stupid requests, like the chinese planes request thing sb brought up last day... look, the only thing im putting on my wish list, and it's a VERY VERY easy one to implement, is your pilot being able to walk around the airbase and get to his plane, if you can give us hangar internals, this would help RP'ing a lot, as long as you have some friends to share the ride with /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif i think this is a realistic request, a humble idea that you could see implemented even in il2 with just a few extra lines of code added... but please, no more "hey i want to be able to send postcards home to momma too, and just think how cool it would be to get letters from your girlfriend"... of course, you won't get maryjane's letter unless you succesfully excort the airmail flight to your airbase that's taken for granted of course... regards

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 10:23 AM
Well just a short but significant thing for BOB is not to forget the massive war in the atlantic.

Shipping should play a significant role, as the U Boat war in the atlantic is often overlooked. Anti-Sub and marintime aspects should be an well covered aspect of the BOB.

Also naturally the Bombing side of things should also be well covered.

My lame 2c

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Cheers

WTE Tigger

http://www.users.bigpond.com/lsf_anvil/images/Tigs75.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 11:17 AM
An idea for a base. RAF Sumburgh in the Shetlands. The airfield was situated on a strip of land with the sea on two sides and a 1200 ft hill less than 3 miles from one end of the runway,with a smaller hill in line with the other end and close to the edge of the airfield.Beauforts operated from this field when they were trying to get the Prinz Eugen.

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 07:38 PM
Hurah!, Cheerie ho!, Tally Ho! good show! and all that.

Yes as one of the biggest Medeteranian Fans, I am depressed, that whe will fly the Spit and Hurries as well as the well known Emil again in a depressing climate. I live in the area The Netherlands, an with the Brits whe share the cold gray browngreen North sea and a similar depressing wheather overcast with lots of rain.

If you can't beat them yoin them!


Ok Now that i know that it will be BOB to follow up and leave behind the forgotten battles, I am pleased again I am not the person to stay unhappy over something and now I am looking forward to BOB from Maddox!

I dove in to my extensive WWII Airwar documentation and wouldlike to contribute some ideas for the next devellopment project.

If you say BOB you say:

1.RAF fliyng in the strategicly wrong "Vic" formation (Until Sailor Malan Introduces his variant of the four Ship formation.)

2.Taking off from grasstrips with at least 3 to four ac at once to save time in case of a 'scramble' (very usual during BOB)

3.Groundcontroll to major tom!
Very essential without coastal radar, grond based airguards (somethimes visual handicapped who had better hearing) and constant air patrols And the very evective RAF Groundcontrollers "the Battle Of Britain" whould now be known as: "Der Eroberung von England" (The Conquering of England!)

4. The London Blitz,
The extensive bombing of London, after the RAF Bombercommand retaliated the accidental bombing of England's Capitol took place during the night wich gave the Luftwaffe Kampfflieger better chance of returning.
Therefor the Night battles should form a important part of the sim, exhaust glare should be modeled! (The key feature for the nightfighter to find its target!
Ofcourse two Importand RAF nightfighters need to be develloped:
The Boulton Paul Defiant and the succesfull Beaufighter, and of course their very successfull counter part the Messerschmit BF110.

5. Ring the bell and we run like hell!
Typical for the BOB was longtime waiting for RAF Fighterpilots before take off and the exiting rush when scrambling. It would greatly enhance athmosphere for the campaigns to start a mission outside of the aircraft, this could be a pre-made track that starts before a mission (Maybe when loading) and closes a mission with, when succesfull a track of your groundcrew and petdog welcoming you with enthaushasm or you beeing captured or rescued depending where your ac chrashes.
By the way what would the RAF have done with all those WAAF women! they need to be seen aswell in the BOB sim.

6.Gun patches,
So distinctif For RAF fighters where those red patches of fabric over the .303 gun muzzles these served two purposes, One it kept out dirt of the gun barrel and reduced drag, when used the patch is blown away and it was easy to see for the ground crew if one of the guns did not work, or if the guns needed to be rearmed.

7.Emil rules!
The trusy Emil had some importand features in wich it outclassed its RAF opponents:

It could dive away from the early model Spitfire and Hurricane without them beeing able to follow because the Merlin stopped feeding under Negative G.

The Emil had two 20mm cannon where its opponents had the obsolete .303 guns It is known that several medium Luftwaffe Bombers returned to France with over 200 rifle caliberhits both LW Fighter and Bombers where protected with armour that could sustain these hits and the rubber selfsealing tanks helped against fire develloping.
The Spitfire Mk1 did not have self sealing tanks!
during BOB there were some experimental Mk1 featured 2x 20mm wich were hampered by frequent stopages!
Please don't make the historic mistake again as has been done with the I-16-12 2x 20mm Of wich only 12 examples have seen action, and they are all over Both IL2 & FB!

8.The tacticans,
For Instance The Luftwaffe made good use of the fact that the where the attacker, they would climb to extreme high altitude on their way to England and always have a head start this way over the RAF wich would be climbing towards them and could brake off towards France when in trouble.

Jabo's flew extremely low to avoid radar detection

As mentioned before Sailor Malan was a great tactician who ignored the standard Vic formation and there fore became one of the most succesfull surviving RAF leaders.
His counter part Werner Moelders who develloped the 'Schwarm' formation gave the Luftwaffe a head start with this tactic among others.
It would be great to see some Induvidual A.I. FM models for Ace pilots like Johnny Johnson, Adolf Galland, Douglas Bader and Helmut Wick, Their Individual styles made them imortal not just them beeing high scorers, It always bugs me to hear aces like Graf or Hartmann shouting for help because they make stupid mistake when you fly with or against them!





Further i would recomend the following Books Allied photos and info on BOB and the Med:

"Spitfire at War"
Alfred Price
isbn 0 7110 0560 5

("Hurricane at War"
"Mustang at War"
By the same author are recomended aswell Don't know the Isbn code )

"The Fight for the Skies"
Roger A. Freeman
isbn 0-304-35298-5


I have very good memorys on the vintage Flightsim BOB by Lucas Arts, especialy its very informative manual that i re-read from time to time.

Regards,

Kees.

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 11:01 AM
Surprised no-one's mentioned this: How about minelaying? Wasn't there a story of a German seaplane landing in Harwich harbour, droppng mines, then taking off again?

The struggle between technicians on both sides to make or defuse mines is very interesting if you're into technical stuff like that.

Might give the bomber pilots something a bit different to do.

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 03:48 AM
garbazzz wrote:
- if oleg had to listen to some people's advice he and
- his team would have to spend the rest of their lives
- developing a strategy game with role playing
- elements driven by uber-complex AI routines... why?

Well said.


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XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 03:15 AM
Phew! got to the end at last...!

Okaysie, a few more ideas/suggestions:

1) Aim to model the major combat types as player flyable from day 1. This includes the multi-crew German bombers!

2) The BoB is very well documented. Great potential for a progressive campaign based closely on the historical records- i.e. a campaign where the player goes through the BoB as it happened. In addition, excellent potential for a dynamic "what if" campaign based around success/faliure of the players missions.

3) Don't forget the Channel war! there was more to the BoB than destroying Fighter Command's airbases.

4) Lots of cool mission possibilities: RAF "Big Wings", Bf-109 Freidjagd, Bf-110 high altitude (~20,000ft) combat sweeps, low altitude terrain following raids by Do-17's.

5) Model ammo supply on the MG15 defensive MG's correctly- these weapons only had a 75 round saddle magazine ammunition supply. Approx. 3 seconds of fire then the gunner would have to reload!

6) Action in the NE of Britain, the attacks made by the Norway based Luftflotte 5.

7) The rapid advance of tactics and machines. The RAF moving from 3 plane vics to "Finger-Fours". Introduction of Spitfire II (first issued to 61 Squadron on 22 August, 195 in service by end of October).

That will do for now. Oh I guess you have to make the best, next generation combat flight sim engine to hang all these great ideas off! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Gunther Rall

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 10:24 PM
Oh and some more ideas:

For enhancing take off and landing athmosphere, It would be good to have;

1.Colour coded Signal flares, to give permision for take off or landings. Red Flares where also used by pilots to anounce that they came in with a wounded crew or for emergency landing in that case firemen and ambulance would follow the landing aircraft.
using signal flares was standard isue during the war.
This feature would be usefull aside from adding realism, as it is modeled now it is so unrealistic taking off in a row with out take off clearence!

2.Sound of ringing bell, to anounce a scramble.
As can be seen in WWII documantaries a bell would serve to alarm the pilots on duty for a quick take off or 'Hot scramble'or the pilots would be alarmed by a officer who would be informed by phone and would anounce wich group would take off.

3.Briefing:
It would be getting the player really into the sim when he would get a pre and de-briefing simular to the real thing,
Before you start a campaign or single mission you would see a 3D briefing room with a map maybe some pilots sitting next to you a intelegence oficer would describe the mission,(Audio voice) and point out the planned waypoint route with a stick on a large map and warn you of enemy AA and a/c. The same room could be used darkened to show some damage report photographs (Bombing missions)or guncamera film at the debriefing, or serve as Intelengence Dia slide show for info on the target.

4.Tactical A.I. enhancement, to make the arialfights and ground attacks more interesting, please some more details for the Campaign model. When attacking a ground target use several formations like flight 1, to soften up AAA (Flak) Flight 2, to attack main target flight 3, to finnish off secondary targets and photograph for damage report debriefing.
This was the way a proper attack was set up, it would be good to relive this in the best sim on the BOB.

5.Channel warfare,
When fliyng over the channel this was far from boring since it was full of shipping and anti-shipping activity.
Contrary of what is often written and accepted that during the BOB the JU87 Stuka was shown to be a failure when confronted with Huricane and Spitfire, in fact figure show that despite mounted loses the Stuka had achieved a Impressive kill ratio on the channel convoy's (And every other theather during the entire war!)
The Channel and the Medetaranian will be exelent and exiting anti-shipping area's for the Stuka's and a challence to try to stop the slaughter of these convoys by bombers and U-boats!

Regards,
Kees.

XyZspineZyX
11-02-2003, 06:50 AM
We will need much more interaction with Ground Control, ie vectoring to enemy AC etc.

More commands for AI wingmen would be useful, and once a flight leader is dead, next in line should be able to give commands.

The multi-national makeup of Fighter Command needs to be included, Canadians, South Africans, Czechs, Poles etc. Coastal Command units should also be included.

Italian involvement, small though it was, should be a part of this new sim.

Cockpit lights need to be modelled correctly for night missions. Luftwaffe used red lights, Britain used green. Germany could not understand why British pilots seemed to be able to see better in the dark, it was because of the lights, the green lights don't affect your night vision as much. British intelligence leaked a story that British pilots could see better because they ate lots of carrots,and that myth is with us today!

Individual aircraft in campaigns, patches from battle damage should show up, performance should gradually degrade unless a new engine is mounted, etc.

Occasional engine or mechanical failures, should be an option selectable by hosts in multiplayer. Gear should not always go down after battle damage for instance.

Weather, fog, rain, clouds. We need bigger clouds so a pilot can hide for more than a few seconds. Also, take away the X-Ray vision for AI pilots, so humans can escape in clouds.

No more uber sharpshooter AI gunners in bombers! Where there are multiple gunner positions, skill level should be random, ie various levels of skill within one bomber. No more instant dead engines from a few mg bullets, loss of power yes, but it should keep running for a while.

Different props on Hurris and Spits, two blade fixed pitch, three blade with two pitch positions, Rotol constant speed etc. All Spitfires had CS props by end of July 1940.

Cine cameras? recording in b & w? would be cool.

195 MkII Spitfires took part in BoB before end of October.

No offensive sorties for Fighter Command between the Dunkirk evacuation and January 1941, they simply did not happen.

Float planes for sea rescue, He59 and Supermarine Walrus.

Avro Ansons for coastal patrol.

Most british units used the Vic formation, but not all. Some veterans of the fighting in France were already switching to 4 plane formations.

Variety of missions, low level surprise attacks by fighters or bombers as well as high alt attacks.

Limited fuel and combat time for 109's, 15 to 20 minutes depending on which base they came from.

Merlin engine sounds for Spits and Hurricanes.

Ground troops running to capture/rescue downed airmen?

DeWilde incendiary bullets for .303 British guns.

and so on, and so on...


Budanova

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 11:29 PM
I realise Italian participation was relatively small but...

if its going to be included it should be done right:
Cr. 42 (biplane fighter)
Br. 20 (twin engined bomber)
G. 50 (open cockpit monoplane fighter)

maybe we could also get a bonus mission over Malta where a lot of the same sort of bombing and interceptor missions occurred in which case we would also need
M.C. 200 (open cockpit monoplane fighter)
Re. 2000 (closed cockpit monoplane fighter)
SM. 79 (tri-motor torpedo-bomber)

these planes would provide an excellent base for a Med. expansion pack

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 09:29 AM
If you say BOB...You Say HIGH ALTITUDE Engine!

Ok, IL2 & FB don't have a High altitude model, wich is a shame when you fly in a late war Luftwaffe Aircraft with pressurized cabin and boosted engine, cause those early and pre-War Polikarpof's will be able to hunt chase you al the way up were in reality their pilots would have sufocated along with their radial engines!

But as we know most ofthe fighting in the eastern sky's took place at low to medium altitude, A VVS mistake since the Luftwaffe was able to bounce many a helpless soviet pilots this way and the killratio of the LW weather overestimated, true or underestimated does tell a lot!
( A Georgian Friend from my wife told us that her grandfather had been a Pilot before the war and beliefed he survived because of that fact during the war cause he witnessed how the VVS put so many inexpierienced young pilots into battle to serve as cannon fudder!)

But now that the Battle of Britain is to be modeled a High altitude engine is defetly needed.
The LW Jagdwaffe tactic when on their way towards Britain was to climb as high as possible (Unlike the Jabo's who would penetrate under radar hight) to have a advantage possition over the defenders who would take of towards them, the general complaint by the RAF pilots was that the Luftwaffe was always abovethem when engaging!

This way the LW could even break away at their choise to go "screaming towards France" as the RAF pilots tought this was a unfair and unsportif tactic!
(But how did that english phrase go again? "He who runs from fights away wil live to fight a other day!")

Only stupid or very brave LW pilots would enter a dogfight(turningfight) with the RAF superior turners, and ignore their own Bf109's superiorety at Booming and zooming.

Did you now that the highest arialfight during WWII (Aprox. 13km) took place between a specially rebuilt Mk IX vs a highaltitude Ju86 bomber over the UK?

Ofcourse a sim that wants to recreate the fight for air superiorety between the Spitfire and Messerschmit 109 must feature a advanced high altitude model since the race between these two was getting faster and higer then the other.
Also Photo reconesance 'spyplanes' would benefit from this and give a extra demension to the sim!
regards,
kees.

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 02:54 PM
One more idea.

Selectable fuel type (Octone 86, 96..100.)

Also the option to get historically correct fuel types in the campaign.
As the quality of aviation fuel significantly increased or decreased plane performance.

Regards
Hunger

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 03:07 AM
Let me bump this while I think of some campaign or mission ot include. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 04:49 AM
nt = No Text

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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 05:22 AM
Idea on immersion:

This is really unnecessary as a core game component, but it would work well to increase the immersion levels of a single player campaign.

As we all know, first-person-shooter type of games, sometimes offer a very compelling feel of realism in the fact that you, as a human being, can navigate and walk around fields, rooms, and etc.

Now, I don't want to see a FPS game implemented inside a flight sim game, but I think the single player campaign, could use that type of interface as an option.

For instance, in between missions, you would be able to set a Graphic User Interface option between 'simplified' and 'walk-around'.

In the 'simplified' mode, it would be very simular to what we have, except the campaign screen would be in 3D, depicting a few buildings such as the control tower, O'club, runway, hangar and etc(something like the pre-mission screen of EAW, except it's in 3D).

In the 'walk-around' mode, you'd get to see your 'avatar' represented in full figure, which you can move around and etc - you'll be able to walk around the airfields, see the machinery and planes parked and set in the grass strips, see NPC personnel walking around, minding their own business, doing their work and etc.

Before the mission starts, when you visit the hangar, you'll be able to talk to the NPC mechanic and request ordnance to be attached, change convergence, change fuel load, different paint job and etc - and you'll get to see the 3D figures working on the requested job(of course, simplified).

I know it sounds like a scene right out of a first/third person view RPG, but those things can really help bring up the quality of immersion. Maybe a limited RPG factor can be introduced, too - so that you don't feel your wingmen and squaddies are just a line of text and names - maybe you'll meet them, talk to them, give or receive advice..maybe an 'EXP' factor, as in role playing games, can be implemented to the AI-NPC wingmen squaddies, so as they survive more missions, build closer ties with you, they become better and better pilots.. sometimes make judgement calls, even, for example, like when you need immediate help, your wingman will choose to help you before someone else.. and etc etc.

It's not gonna be an easy job, but it would really help the people who seek the war-time immersion in single-player campaigns. There's a reason that people are still playing EAW. Maybe 1C can make those people stop playing EAW /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



-----------
Due to pressure from the moderators, the sig returns to..

"It's the machine, not the man." - Materialist, and proud of it!

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 09:21 PM
Maybe we can preserve these threads on Mudmovers or some other forum so they can be found more easily than attempting an Ubi Search. Otherwise, they seem to keep disappearing from Page 1 without some TLC and some *bumps* /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 08:46 PM
One thing that would add greatly to any air combat sim, is shared kills.

Shared kills was a big part of BoB, with kills being shared by up to 4 other pilots. Really, anyone who fires at an enemy plane and hits it should share in the kill, rather than just the last guy who followed it down and gets a few hits just before it crashes.

This would discourage 'poachers', and give credit to whoever initiated the attack in the first place.

Budanova

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 02:29 PM
Budanova wrote a article for the feature of beeing credited shared kills, in Olegs ready room.

Budanova,
I think this feature should be added to the wishlist for the BOB sim!

because the Brithish RAF will play a major part in that sim did validate shared kills, as well as the later UK based USAAF.

On the Otherhand the Luftwaffe did not recognize shared kills, the Kill would go to the one who dealt the 'coup de grace' (Final blow to the victim) or the Pilot with the Highest rank would be granted the victory when it was not certain who dealt the final blow (wich frustrated a lot of lower rank pilots, Ofcourse!) The Incredebly succesfull JG 52 (Featuring, Hartmann, Rall, Graf etc.) might have been more fair as soon as the pilots where airborne would the one who spotted the enemy first be the leader of the pack. also the ones who had most skills would become the natural leader and could even be angry with superior oficers who had to forget what was been said during combat when the were back on the ground and the oficail ranks were valid again!

Don't look for fairplay to much tough History shows the real battles in the air and the validation of air kills where far from fair (Sharing a kill means very unsportif un gentleman like behavior since at least two planes killed a single adversary!)

Regards,
Kees.

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 03:18 PM
When you say Bob.. You say Stress!

Stress For it to hit the market!?

Stress For those 'few' to Defend their realm?

Stress For the frustrated Qounqerers who are halted by the Stuborn Brit's And Spit's?

Yeah al thatand more but most important, was the Stress factor on the Airplanes!

With the Spitfire and Hurricane one advantage over the Bf109 namly their turning circle these aircraft wings were put under great stress, It is a fact that more people drown from fear of sighting something that looks like a shark then those who are actualy attacked by a shark!

It is also known that most pilots in a dogfight had more fea for overstressing their aeroplane like ripping one's wings off when pulling to much G, wich they might do when panicking after spotting a enemy on ones 6 o'klock! Or losing controll in a spin. (most Pilots shot down by E/a from the rear possition would not have had time to panic untill its to late)
The Spitfire was such a wounderfull a/c because it could resist up to 9 G when pulling tight turns more then most pilots could take before loosing conciusnes!
Ofcourse the Later introduced FW190 who was twice as strong and heavy as its lightweight companion the Bf109 bettered the early Spit's and gave the Raf the greatest shock and Need for a upraded Spitfire.


Stressfactor is a must for any flight sim who wants to be realistic, therefore it should have been modeled already don't you think?

It would also enhance realism in flight behavior because older less strong airframes would not beable to compete with the later heavier airframes because they would fall apart when engaging a fight with them.
regards,
kees.

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 03:26 PM
Pilot Trainign Campaigns.

-modelling of trainer planes (including gliders for glider training that I understand LW pilots had)

-authentic reproduction of pilot training programs, both for fighter and bomber pilots.

Purpose being to expose the player to the same training that the actual pilots got.

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 03:36 PM
yay1 wrote:

- Mechanical failures, so for example
- adventage/disadvetage of some aircarft:
- frequent/unfrequent mechanical failures.
-
- And I think mostly people will want some chances in
- game, ie good/bad weather, failures, pilots get
- heart attack /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif and so on...
-


I think you are on to something here....
These additional elements would be a good addition.



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XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 05:09 PM
THREE DIGIT IDENTIFICATION... for British planes. A big downer for CFS3 was the two digit identification. Individual RAF squadron call letters are recorded, (check the book, "Battle of Britain", by Jon Lake, ISBN:1-55267-00704, published by Prospero Books)so historical accuracy in this area would be simple.

Campaigns: Divided into three sections, #1 - the Channel war, mostly convoy and port attacks, July 1 to August 11, #2 - Second Phase, attacks on radar, airfields, aircraft factories etc.mid august german fighters begin close escort, August 11 to September 6, #3 - The Blitz, attacks on London etc., September 6 - October 31.

Options for other campaigns would be Battle of France, and the winter of 1940/41 where RAF started cross channel fighter operations.

Missions: Convoy attack, Port attack, search and rescue (escort float planes to rescue downed aviators in channel), radar station attack, free hunt by german fighters, airfield attack, factory attack, Buckingham Palace attack, Coventry attack, Berlin raid by RAF bombers, (no fighters), recon missions by do17P's, baloon busting missions, London attacks, night missions (Hurricanes and Blenheim's used for night fighters).

Many Luftwaffe attacks ended up at the wrong target, ie hitting civil airfields and Bomber commmand airfields, when they wanted to hit Fighter command airfields. In one case, RAF bombers returning from a sortie against Italy, dropped their extra bombs on an RAF bombing range, German bombers saw the explosions, so attacked the empty bombing range as well!

Proper terminology is important in a BoB sim, gotta have all the cool RAF slang. Maybe developers should hire a couple vets that speak the appropiate languages? There is a website that has all the RAF slang terms as well.


S!
Budanova

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 06:18 PM
I think it would be an excellent feature if all of the squadrons. for both sides, took part in daily operations, the results of which could be seen.
e.g. while you might be part of a fighter squadron, another squadron, say a squadron of stukas are off bombing a radar station.
when you return from the mission you can view a day report of all the actions that have taken place along with squadron rosters, details on ai pilots in other squadrons, their status, available planes etc.
If one squadron is losing a lot of pilots, new pilots will become more scarce across the board,replacements wont just appear.
The same goes for the a/c.

It would be nice to see crews turn up in the rosters for bombers, not just the pilot.

If this was implemented it would give the proper scale to the battle.

Another feature, like someone else suggested with the radar stations, would be to have the damage inflicted on buildings actually affect operations, e.g. if the airbase is attacked, te destroyed aircraft are accounted for, and repars are slowed by the damaging of repair facilities.

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 09:03 PM
Stretch the BoB Campaign to cover the Fall of France,Dunkirk,the Night/Winter Blitz.& British Bomber ops in 1940/41....That about covers it...& oh,uh ...The Med!!

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XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 01:20 AM
Don't make the Med/ North African sim into a extra map or a addition to a main Theather sim!
Please this theather is way to interesting to be only featured incomplete as a bonus on a major theather subject!

I have said this many times before The one time that a proper and clear question was asked towards the most popular theather to be modeled way back in the beginning of the IL2 poll, the out come was convincingly the Med and N-Africa!

A other poll from that period showed as wel that the Luftwaffe was the most popular airforce within the comunity.

I am Looking forward towards BOB and FB becoming a better product towards the devellopment of BOB, and hope that one day the comunity's wish for the Forgotten Medeteranean Theather will become a wonderfull stand alone addon (That I 'm shure people are willing to pay for!)
Especialy the German, Brithish Comon wealth & Maltese, Italian, Greek, French, US (& Tuskegee airman) Brazilian, North Africa, South african and at least this one silly Dutchman!

Regards,
Kees

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 01:47 AM
A complex meteorological system.

-Weatherfronts moving across the entire area, predicted, right or wrong, by the ?meteorologists?.

-Groundeffect, when flaring your aircraft.

-Ice, in clouds, affecting everything like visibility, non-functioning instruments to heavy overload, depending on temperature and intensity.

-aircraftperformance according to temperature and pressure and not only altitude under standard atmospheric conditions.

-low-level wind shear near CB-clouds

-Wind directions according to previously mentioned weather-systems.

-actual turbulence (lift) below thermic clouds and not only in them, and the opposite of lift under rainclouds.

-The war of keeping the German weatherstations of the eastcoast of Greenland.

-carburettor-ice under specific conditions, a little cold and a lot of moist in the air.

Just to mention a few.. Maybe not the last though..

rgds

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 02:02 AM
When you end BOB you say Abbeville boys!

Ofcourse everything that has a Beginning has a End....
And the End is a new Beginning,,,No i am not asking for the Matrix to continue.
But since the Battle of Britain was a brief one, were actualy there was not a decisive end or real victor (aside from the fact that Hitler cancelled invasion plans and turned to his main objectiv the attack on the SovietUnion,
The Raf continued to clash with the Luftwaffe based in occupied France Only two squadrons remained to protect 'fortress Europe'the Elite JG 2 Richthoven and JG 26 ****eter, Both would produce Impresiv and colour full Experten (Ace's) The Likes of Comander Oeseau, The brothers Galland and the popular 'Pips' Priller. Al of these would excel in the new 'Saber'that came as a shock to the Allies the FW190, this type was so advanced that it outclassed anyhting the Allies had and secured Airsuperiority untill the arival of the Spitfire Mk IX
(It also did this for a brief period in North Africa)
The JG 26 pilots were well respected by their adversary in the RAF and USAAF who nicknamed them "the Abeville Boys"

Their are plenty of great books on both JG's and their pilots I think it would be great to Continue the Battle of Britain with this civalrious clash between the Axis and Allies that in fact in reality continued 'after'the BoB officialy ended, this would add a more interesting campaign were at first the Axis are attacking England and in the later the allies (RAF/USAAF)would attack Occupied France.
At first the Luftwaffe will be shocked by the RAF's Spitfire, radar and Groundcontroll, and in the second this will happen with the arrival of the FW190.
regards,
Kees.

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 10:09 PM
Flydutch wrote:
[snip]
-
- I am Looking forward towards BOB and FB becoming a
- better product towards the devellopment of BOB, and
- hope that one day the comunity's wish for the
- Forgotten Medeteranean Theather will become a
- wonderfull stand alone addon (That I 'm shure people
- are willing to pay for!)
- Especialy the German, Brithish Comon wealth &
- Maltese, Italian, Greek, French, US (& Tuskegee
- airman) Brazilian, North Africa, South african and
- at least this one silly Dutchman!
-

LoL, well said.



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XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 10:32 PM
* Include Polish squadrons in RAF service:

302nd 'Poznanski' Fighter Squadron (code:WX)
303rd 'Kosciuszkowski' Fighter Squadron (code:RF)
306th 'Torunski' Fighter Squadron (code:UZ)
308th 'Krakowski' Fighter Squadron (code:ZF)
309th 'Czerwienski' Fighter Squadron (code:WC)
^^^---(ex Army Support Squadron (code:AC) )
315th 'Deblinski' Fighter Squadron (code:PK)
316th 'Warszawski' Fighter Squadron (code:SZ)
317th 'Wilenski' Fighter Squadron (code:JH)
318th 'Gdanski' Fighter-Recce Squadron (code:LW)

...and mabye also:

Polish Fighting Team (code:ZX) a.k.a. "Skalski's Circus"
(served in North Africa, 1943)

300th 'Mazowiecki' Bomber Squadron (code:BH)
301st 'Pomorski' Bomber Squadron (code:GR)
304th 'Slaski' Bomber Squadron (code:NZ, later QD)
305th 'Wielkopolski' Bomber Squadron (code:SM)
307th 'Lwowski' Night Fighter Squadron (code:EW)
663rd Artillery Support Squadron

(source: J.B.Cynk "The Polish Air Force at War 1939-1945 - Official History", tome 2)



R. "Rola" Skibicki

-----------------------------------
Polish Aviation Museum supports us!
http://www.muz-lotnictwa.krakow.pl

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 12:43 PM
Back up. ^

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XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 05:53 PM
.

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XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 05:27 AM
I have two ideas...and I don't really expect them to be implemented, but I think that they will be two very good developments in the new game.

First. The issue in IL-2 where an AI enemy plane can smell you at a certain distance behind him, yeah that is my first plan of attack. I was thinking today, what if, when you approached a plane from behind, or above and behind, there would be a percentage chance that he could see you. This percentage will depend on the skill of the pilot, the higher the skill, the higher the chance that they will see you coming. In regards to a flight of planes, each one will have its own separate percentage, and then they will "relay" it to the rest of the squadron. This way, there will be instances where a plane cannot see you, and you can sneak up on him, as it occasionally happened in real life.

Second. I mentioned this idea a while ago, and it has to do with plane markings. I like how each plane has its own separate number/letter arrangement, but I do not like how they are perfectly in order from 1 to whatever the amount of planes is. This seems too perfect. I think the letters/numbers should depend on your standing in the squadron. Therefore, the highest ranking officer will have the letter A or the number 1, and then each pilot down the line will be assigned his own number/letter based on their standing in the squadron. In the case that there are two captains (or whatever), then it will depend on who has more kills, or more missions flown to his credit. That way, when a flight is formed, you will not always see 1,2,3,4, etc. You will see 1,3,7,8, etc. And in the case of letters, it won't be A,B,C,D, etc. it will be A, C, F, H, and so on. This would increase the immersion factor if you ask me, this and the "sneaking up on planes concept."

Thanks for your time. Hope my suggestions help.

XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 10:51 AM
How about views from inside the control towers ,and inside the radar room and radar operations as well.
PLEASE MAKE THE MERLINS AND D B'S SOUND LIKE THEM

XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 12:14 PM
My thoughts...

1) Certainly some form of Observer Corp / Chain Home, Sector, Group input after take off.

Could this also include attempts of varying succcess to place interceptors in tactically superior positions. These attempts could fail or backfire on a randomised basis..

2) Refuelling and rearming so some missions run into the next.

3) Missions starting with no brief and incompelete fuel / ammo load to simumlate emergency scramble with some form if briefing once the a/c are airborne.

4) squadron tactics devlop from Vics and 'area fire' (I think was the term) with guns harmonised at 500yrds to loser patterns, the 'Big wing' concept coming in to play and the introduced option for the player to harmonise their own guns - this would replicate the RAF doctine from 9/39 to mid 40 where tactics adapted and changed.

The player could preselect a 'follow historical tactics and settings' option during setting up a campaign.

5) The 'what-if' idea mooted on page 1 is great, Invasion from Norway or the opposite - campaign where Germany did not suceed in Norway and therefore there is reduced threat from that area. Luftwaffe remain bombing military targets and do not switch to London, Increased threat of Irish involvement?

6) Introduction and removal of squadrons as they are become operational eg Poles or as they are exhausted.

I think that the MOD Battle of Britain campaing diary would be an excellent idea to follow - as suggested previously.

7) In the nicest way can we avoid the leaked beta, patch shambles, poor communication that has sometimes appeared with FB?

Will now start saving for 64 CPU...../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

In the Foxhound's Kennel is...

ASUS A7V8X-X, AMD Barton 2500+, Win XP Home-SP1, 512MB DDR333, Ti4800SE, Creative SB5.1, Dx9.0b, FB1.11

XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 06:12 PM
Hi, I think a good name will be "Spitfire BOB" because it was the most decisive aircraft in order to win that battle
so the name honours it, like il2 Sturmovik does the same in the russian front.

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 03:41 AM
How bout this for a map?

http://home.earthlink.net/~tphadden/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/1900big.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 12:04 PM
Snuffy_Hadden wrote:
- How bout this for a map?
-

Cool map. I think it will be awhile before WWI gets included. Still, after a possible Med add-on, who knows?

Maybe, enough fans start to model some 1914-1918 era bi-planes, and then you have the seeds for WWI scenarios. Fan aircraft modeler participation/direction is how FB got some WWII Pacific planes.

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XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 12:45 PM
I haven't had time to read the rest of the thread, but here are a few ideas:

<ul>
<LI>Allow selection of different octane fuel where available
<LI>Allow selection of higher engine boosts where historically available.
<LI>For campagins, model engine lifetime, based on WEP usage, boost, octane, etc. E.g. suddenly you have to fly a different plane as your usual ride is in the shop having an engine overhaul.
<LI>Model random variations in aircraft performance according to typical production variations.
<LI>For campaigns model general wear and tear on aircraft, with gradual performance reduction.
<LI>For later war, model reduction in performance of painted aircraft versus polished metal.
<LI>Better model reflectivity of polished aircraft, to give polishing them a realistic downside.
<LI>Reduce muzzle flash for daylight, but model persistent retinal imagine at night.
<LI>Model radar in night fighter aircraft.
<LI>Model image enhancement devices in night fighter aircraft.
<LI>Have gunners call out aircraft locations and hand offs
<LI>Have the ability to control whether gunners fire or not, or how agressively they fire. For campaigns have abilities improve as missions progress (if the gunner survives).
<LI>Model ground control of aircraft.
<LI>Improve high altitude physics model.
<LI>Improve look of ground from high altitude.
<LI>Expand minimap options. For example, in a bomber, have
the navigator plot where you are, with the chance of getting it wrong (cf. B-17-II). Have option to be able to correct
navigator when passing obvious landmarks.
<LI>Model gun jams
<LI>Model icing
<LI>Model dud bombs, etc
<LI>Model engine failures, and so on.
<LI>Fully progressive, changing weather, with option to sync up to online servers for non-combat flying fun in up-to-date weather.
<LI>Carrier landings, etc, Hurricane CAM, etc
<LI>Model mass takeoffs from RAF grass strips.
[/list]

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 06:09 PM
Sorry, I feel confused... But, can a BoB sim include more campaigns than BoB? The title of this sim reduces the choices a lot. Even 'Il-2 Sturmovik' had a wider range of posibilities, being the name of a plane in production throughout the war. But BoB can only mean summer of 1940 missions over the English Channel.

Not much variety, I'm afraid. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

- Dux Corvan -



http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612322300

</span></blockquote></font></td></tr>

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 07:05 PM
EURO_Snoopy wrote:
- Ok, the decision has arisen, to a few howls of
- derision the next sim to be is Battle Of Britain....
- (sorry /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )
-
- What we want to hear are ideas for the next sim,
- Campaigns and missions let's get them rolling in.
-

1) Forgotten Battles, while it is the No.1 WW2 flight sim, is a very lonely world/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif . In BoB add people. What I mean is ground crewmen. An air field is a very busy place. If possable add in annimated mechanics, fuelers, armmentmen, flagmen and such doing their jobs.

2 I too vote for improved weather effects, maybe called dymanic weather. High/Low pressure areas, (set your altimeter). Winds with gust (20-40k gusting crosswind landings /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif ). Moving weather system fronts. Tempeture, and the affects of denstiy altitude on arcraft performance.

3. Very Realistic radio comms. Able to choose Freqencys realistically and adjust sqelch static and such. In other word simulate the radios and how they work. Give ground control at least some intelligence /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif .

My 2 cents for now.

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 09:24 PM
Well.. i haven't readi if it has been posted before in this Topic...

But some craters would be a nice thing to have in BoB. Damaged airfields would be nice to see... like so, with a sucessfull bomb run, the airfield becomes un usable.


S~

XyZspineZyX
11-15-2003, 07:27 AM
It's not very ...pressing matter!

Here the story about 335th Squadron:

The 335th Squadron was created on 7th November 1941 in Palestine, Akir by Greek pilots that managed to escape from the occupied Greece. It was placed under English command as an RAF squadron named 335th Hellenic Squadron. In the beginning the squadron was given Hawker Hurricane MkI.
In August 1942 the whole squadron was given the new Hawker Hurricane MkIIb and Hawker Hurricane MkI.
Following the course of the North African front, the 335th is in Tunis while being reinforced, in December 1943, with the new aircraft Supermarine Spitfire Mk. Vb/I/c.
In September 1944 it is transferred and repositioned in Italy and lands in Elliniko airfield, in the free Greece, on 18th of November 1944.
In the spring of 1945 it is dismissed from RAF and receives the name "335th Fighter Squadron".

Also 336th Greek Squadron formed early 1943 given Spits.

Could it be possible to add these squadrons in future Med theatre?

<center> 335th_GRViper
http://www.hellenic-sqn.gr


http://www.hellenic-sqn.gr/Images/33.gif </center>

XyZspineZyX
11-15-2003, 11:55 AM
MOSSIE IS A MUST!

Yes I know the Mosquito is a post BoB a/c!
But so is the D-day map and 8th USAAF stationed at Britain.
But if your modeling a sim on "the Finest hour" of the Royal Air Force (The Defence of the Realm) their should be the retaliating Hour 'Leaning forward into France' As it was called by the RAF staf.

After BoB the RAF started to take the initiative in offensive strikes into Occupied France with the gallant(d! Lol) Battle vs JG 2 and JG 26.
A interesting period because now the Luftwaffe was at the defence and with the introduction of the BF109F (considerd the best model by most Ace's)the Spitfires had their hands full, but when the Focke Wulf came about the RAF was in real trouble untill the arival of the Spit Mk IX.

From this Ofensive period, certainly the most interesting a/c developed came about the DeHaviland Mosquito!
'The Wooden Wonder' as it was dubbed, is probaly the Best twin engine multi role a/c from WWII, Its german rival the JU88 served in eaqual roles throug the entire war and had some more roles like tankbusting and as the Mistel combo, but it did'nt have 'the Torn in the side of the enemy' effect that the Mossie certainly was for Das Reich!

The concept of a smal bomber that did not have defensive armament but used speed to outrun enemy a/c was quit revolutionary thinking in a time were the 4 engine haevy armed bombers ruled, (History has shown that these Heavy's still needed escort to not be slaugthered by Fighters)
The Mosquito did not need escort and only had two crew, it could take a 4000 pound bombload (same as the 10 crew B-17! Since the allies suffered huge crew loses over Europe the Mossie was a welcome substitute!) delivering it at pinpoint targets from high altitude or rooftop lowlevel strikes, the fighter bomber versions became a fighter-attack a/c as soon as they dropped their main load!

Some roles it played:
High speed bomber, High altitude , low altitude, Day and night.
Fighter-Bomber, Ground attack/support, Anti-shiping, pinpoint precision strikes.
Photo recconaisance, watching enemy movement, discovering enemy targets like rocket instalations camouflaged airbase or battle ships, low level bomb damage reports(film and photo)
fighter/Nightfighter, Defending Britain against Night and day bombing attacks, defending airbases at night against enemy Nightfigthers/intruders, intruder missions against enemy A/c trying to land at Luftwaffe airbases (With and without radar or ground controll)
Pathfinders, searching and marking the right spot for the allied Heavybomber armada to drop their payload, higly trained navigators would strike the target with 'TI' incedary flares or incedairy bombs, just before the main Heavyarmada showed up, the bombardiers would home in on these target indicators.

It served al these roles with distinction and lesser casultys then its coleague's.
Mosquito crew were higly trained pilots with a lot of initiativ and High decorations have been awarded to them.
German fighters seldom succeeded in to downing a mosquito when they did they could expect a lot of respect from Luftwaffe staf.

Memorable missions,
The roof top missions would be flown so fast and low that it often got the enemy with his pants down, AAA gunners were usualy to late to shoot these suprise attacks, Mossie's would return with chimeny pipe stones in their noses or wing tips cut of by telphone wire.
Ofcourse how can whe forget the mostdaring strikes at Gestapo HQ through out majorcitys in europe the Mossie crew took pride in only hitting those single buildings when surrounded by houses, and what about operation jericho where the bobms where dropped at the Amiens prison walls to enable imprisoned resistance members to escape their Gestapo torment! this action was repeated in Norway.
Daring strikes were exuted in Norway's many fjord's the 'Kriegs Marine' (German Navy) used these natural sea enclaves to hide their fleet and cargo shipping higly defended with AAA and steel cables across the fjord's the Germans could not stop the Mossie photographing and sinking this shipping, that would be hit by Coastal Command's Mosquito's armed with 4x mg's 4x 20mm the sixpounder 'Tse tse'anti-tankgun, rockets and the experimental 'bouncing ball bombs somewhat simular to those used against the Rhur dams 'Dambusters'.
The luftwaffe tried to duplicate the mossie threat by sending FW190 Jabo with small bombloads to hit targets in Britain (And hence sound the airraid alarm, stop production for a while, one of Mossie's many tasks)
But failed to produce a Mossie copy, The gifted Kurt Tank did design and built the TA154 'Moskito'but it failled to become operational.
Maybe Hitler so stubornly insisted on a fast bomber that he rejected the ME262 to become a fighter because he wanted to have a 'Mossie'impact bomber of his own!
(Later the fighter version would become a threat for the Mosquito at least one Moquito was shot down by a Me262)

This forgotten 'Wooden Wonder' (Admired and feared during the War) deserves at least to be modeled in the future sim or even better become like a standalone addon pack!

regards,
Kees

XyZspineZyX
11-15-2003, 06:24 PM
the Focke wulf was the only serious adversary for a long time!

There has been a other FW190 pilot who shot down a Mosquito he was a night Nightfighter, Paul Zorner downed a Mosquito while fliyng a ME110-G4 with NJ G5 and Heinz Roeker stalked up a landing Mosquito on landing course and shot it down in his JU88 G-6 with NJ G2, but admitted tobe glad to have encountered the Mossie only once! usualy their only chance of intercepting was when positioned high above the Mossie so they could dive and gain speed, very simular to the latter allied fighter tactic against ME262 jets!

The Navigator/Bombardier who was sitting somewhat further back in the cockpit was always scanning the sky for "Snappers" or Bandits, while the pilot would usualy fly a zig zag course from time to time, to have better overvieuw and make a suprise intercept (From the deadcorners)more difficult.

And I did forget to mention that the Mossie have shot down a impresive 600, V1 fliyngbombs!
Regards,
Kees.

XyZspineZyX
11-15-2003, 08:48 PM
Iam really pleased that maddox took a little smaller front this time. I rather have 8 really accurate planes to fly than the situation which we have now with over 50 models flyable and still some have old DM and FM:s.

right my suggestions.

1. If you add bombers flyable the bombing feeling should be better than in il2. The old Their Finest Hour had nice bombing feeling, especially the bomb explosion sounds should take a while untill hear that was nice in bombing game B17.

2. More planes in the air even if it means reducing graphics.

3. More realistic spotting system, I find il2 lacking in this department, I might be wrong but to me its sometimes too hard to spot far away planes from high up.

4. For the mother of god , tone down the muzzle flashes this time.

5. The campaing is getting better Iam sure but please dont do it like in il2. It was very boring and lacks atmosphere.
News papper kinda thing and little screen between missions where you can check hangar , pilot roster etc, the way it has been made in many sims. It is old way but would definetly be better than current system.

Well this is all I can think of now, mayby more later /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-16-2003, 08:58 AM
Oleg and Team,
I do not know if this has been mentioned before, as I have not had time to read all the posts here.

I have read translations of interviews Oleg has had with other people about the direction 1C is heading with its combat Sims having more advanced Game Engines etc.

At the moment in FB we can use a mouse view to look around inside the **** pit, but we are still looking at a PC screen then looking around the **** pit via that Computer Screen.

Will it be possible to introduce Virtual Reality views for head sets as an example, in the New Generation Air Combat Sims created by 1C.

I know there is a hard core element of Simmers who prefer game settings they describe as full reality mode, even though it is not full reality mode, because they are still viewing inside the **** pit from an out side source, currently the Screen of their PC.

Simmers talk about Immersion in a Game, I cannot think of anything that would be more Immersive than Virtual reality views via head sets in the new Generation of Combat Sims from 1C.

Cheers,
( Oh and thank you for some great Air Combat Sims so far as technology has currently allowed you to create. Brilliant Stuff !)

XyZspineZyX
11-16-2003, 06:07 PM
About the sound of those Merlins!

I did buy a DVD from Pegasus 'The WAR file';

" De Haviland MOSQUITO
The Best British Multi-role combat aircraft of the second World War"
For just 7,99 Euro this Documantary is a must for Mosquito fans, with a lot of B&W WWII footage and in colour a fliyng Mossie is shown from inside the Cockpit it gives a good record of how the engine sound both from the inside or externaly!

I hope that the BoB sim wil use digitalised recordings ofhe real engines! while their still around this should be documented there is just one Fliyng Mossie left, and many other WWII Warbirds are becoming extinct!

Each pilot who flew a Merlin engined a/c will tell you they loved the sound of it, on this part FB can still become much better I think!
A third party develloper who modeld a supurb P-38 for CFS2 that looked very convincing (Other then the standard P-38 in CFS2)but its sound boosted the expierience of fliyng this virtual bird to a higher level! The Modeller did record the sound of a original P-38 and in various rpms.
This could be a very fun job getting to know the real birds better for Maddox or third party volunteers and with the Fame and admeration of the IL2 sim I think many war bird owners would like to contribute their engine sound!
Regards,
Kees.

XyZspineZyX
11-18-2003, 09:13 AM
Page 2 back to Page 1...punt.

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XyZspineZyX
11-18-2003, 12:59 PM
Hi Folks,

I don't know if it has allready been adressed but I'd like to see a possibility to lean forward/backward left/right inside the cockpit.

This option supported by a new TrackIR-3 unit with 6 degrees of freedom!!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

This would be the ultimate kick for me as a pilot - no more struts that hinder the view etc.

Best regards,

Schallmoser

Holm und Rippenbruch!
And never fly faster than your guardian angel
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-18-2003, 04:46 PM
Realistic sea effects.
Immagine flying low on the channel with strong winds and high waves flashing below. Landing with a sea plane would be really exciting!

S!

XyZspineZyX
11-18-2003, 08:27 PM
"Arcade" german mission: intercept Rudolf Hess Bf-110! It was in may 1941, nevertheless...

"Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty but the pig enjoys it!"

XyZspineZyX
11-19-2003, 12:08 AM
IDEA: Finish it before you release it!!!

XyZspineZyX
11-19-2003, 11:18 AM
Briefings and de briefings to be given by animated characters,possibly loosely based on real war pilots instead of a printed screen.

XyZspineZyX
11-19-2003, 04:11 PM
OH and there is more to the fabelous Mossie,

The Mossie also did a spectacular raid where they skipbombed Railway tunnels! in Europe. Ofcourse highly dangerous to fly very low btween mountains following the railtrack untill releasing the bombs that will bounce hopefully into the tunnel and you hope to be able to climb over the mountain the tunnel was located in!

The Mossie also performed 'Spoof' and 'Window' missions when fliyng for Bombercommand were they would impose to be the slower Heavy bomber force (Spoof)luring away enemy fighters from the real Heavy Bomber fleet to disturb the enemy radar the Mossie could drop silverfoil on blackpaper strips that would interfere with the radars wafelength (Window)

At D-day a Mossie force marked and Bombed a dangerous haevy-gunbattery in order to make the landings on Omeha beach less riskfull, they did this with such preccicion that the first Americans para's who aproached it notified it was bombed away and abbandoned. with that one raid they had more succes then the combined effect Bombercommand andthe Eightairforce thogeter achieved in a month!

For their Patfinder missions the Mossie used the very precise Oboe system where they would be using a couple of radar's based in Britain to guide them towards their target and tell the navigator with adio blibs when exactly to drop his Target Indicator or 4000 pound "Cookie" when when the target was overcasted (Very usual in western Europe)they used the 'TI' a coloured flare that would float above the clouds and often dropped in a square shape with the TI's marking the corners,
so the main bomber force would drop within this square on top of a invissible target!

The Mossie looked for targets, photgraphed them, marked them and bombed them while misguiding the enemy Fighter Command!

The Mosquito Fighter-bomber will be a thrill to fly with 4x mg (4000 rounds)4x 20mm (1000 rounds!) up to 2000 pound of bombs and then still able to achieve 325mph!

regards,
Kees.

XyZspineZyX
11-21-2003, 10:50 PM
Flydutch wrote:
- OH and there is more to the fabelous Mossie,
-
[snip]

Bump for the Mossie!

When did they make their debut, exactly?

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XyZspineZyX
11-22-2003, 04:13 AM
My thoughts:

1. Yes to Crew Chiefs for the Full Real crowd. It would be a flight sim first to have the preflgiht walkaround. You'd get crossover simmers just to try that, even the civil aviation crowd would want to try it.

2. Historically accurate setups for at least the most important stretches. By this I mean missions where every aircraft in operation is in the game, following its historical orders. Successive missions should be generated by the DCG so that each wave's results carry forward.

Dawn patrol on Adlertag. You take off and follow the controllers instructions just as it happened. And think of the possibilities for the moviemakers (google for machinima) and the (real academic) historians if you could work with a full simulation of a week's worth of air war. Who cares if you'd need dual 3GHz Xeons to actually PLAY the dang mission ?

3. Hire a genius and lock him in his office until we have AI good enough that I can learn to recognize individual AI pilots by their flying style over the course of a campaign.

4. Have someone else take the aforesaid genius' tools and do the research to make takeoff and landing patterns for the AI be both historically accurate and flexible enough to react correctly (depending on skill and chance) to react to crises like goofy players messing up formations, jumping the landing order and making craters in runways.

5. And what's all this about collisions when a tight formation turns ? It happens often enough to break immersion and a squadron wouldn't survive if they lose a pair or two of planes (and sometimes pilots) almost every missions. This needs to be Looked Into.

6. Accept our thanks for whatever progress is actually made on the AI. It's an evolving science, an arcane art, and ages from perfection.

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1951.

XyZspineZyX
11-22-2003, 04:40 AM
7. Make mechanical failure a realism option with the best-documented failure rates as possible. If you're running every plane in the air, even low rates will see a few planes abort and you need this for the Vision Of Simulation of having everything in the air doing what it really was doing at the time.

8. Get Akella to give back some PT Boat loving, or try and make the games multiplayer compatible. Worst case, do an add-on with torpedo boats instead of aircraft - the FM requirements are MUCH lower, and polycount and cockpit research can't be worse than a multiengine bomber. Uh oh.

9. Seriously, get with Akella about *something*. Get models from them at least and give us a good collection of gunboats and whatnot. I'm not asking for much more than the RN's

10. Go West Young Man. Specifically, mid-Atlantic. The FW-200 has been modelled once, it can be done again. And I'm not the only person who's up for a long coop over blue water either. At least I hope not, for so many reason... I'm not asking 1C to do a LOT of work on this, the Condor, the map and a few freighters and escorts will let us get into it.

11. The Atlantic would be a great warmup (pun intended) for the Murmansk convoys. Go read Alistair MacLean's "HMS Ulysses" for one of literatures' best sea stories and then start designing missions. Must have that gorgeous Ar-196 flyable for this add-on disk ! Perhaps it could be combined with the Atlantic stuff if need be.

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1951.

XyZspineZyX
11-22-2003, 12:44 PM
Desperate measures:

If in the hypotetical campaign, mainland britain is engulfed by the tides of operation Sea Lion, they should throw anything they have into battle, that means training aircraft and dated aircarft like "Hawker Fury" and "Gloster Gauntlet", as well as phased out ones like Fairey Battle, the Gloster Gladiator was there anyway.

Regards
Hunger

XyZspineZyX
11-22-2003, 12:57 PM
Here's another idea for the campaign aspects -

After landing, you get to inspect your aircraft and
see where the damage is. If you are flying with externals
off in an online campaign, you don't otherwise get to
look over the plane.

This could be coupled with chance that your plane is
considered to be a write off and sent for scrap, or
a rebuild, and you get a new one. If damage/performance
is modelled, then either your plane will degrade in
performance, even with patch repairs, or suddenly you
will gain performance if issued a new plane.

XyZspineZyX
11-22-2003, 01:03 PM
And another idea...

Have the integration with the game engine and the campaign engine such that different campaign engines can be implemented. This allows easy upgrade with a defined interface, but also the option of adding in online
campaigns with richer detail in a way that is easier to
program, implement and debug.

What I mean is that you could, in theory, offer a simple
campaign as shipped, that does much of what DGEN does now.

This could then be expanded to offer elements such as
supply of new aircraft when old ones become too damaged,
by simply operating on (XML based?) files produced by
each mission.

Alternatively an external campaign and game could be
offered in the style of Rowan's Battle of Britain, in which
the mission files can be generated based on the progress
of a strategic game, and results processed be taken into
that strategic game. If this strategic based game can
operate on a turn-based basis then it could offer the
basis for an online campaign.

I am sure some of these facilities are already available
and are used by the IL2DCG, VOW, VEF, etc., but it seems
something worth building on in a serious way, and offering
a 3rd party opportunity for a strategic game add on.

XyZspineZyX
11-24-2003, 04:39 PM
If you say BoB you say...Lufburry Defensive Cirkel!

A well known tactic for the Luftwaffe Me110 Zerstoerer, was to form a circkel when attacked by RAF Hurricans or Spitfires, The Me110 suffered to many loses to single engine fighters because they could not compete with their manouvrebillity it was found that when a group of Zerstoerer's would fly a cirkel each plane could effectively keep the 110 in front of him free from stern attacks (The RAF avoided head onn attacks because of the 110'superior fire power.) it was difficult to break these defensive cirkels apart, some RAF pilots succeeded to fly a cirkel within the defensive one in the opossed direction this would give both parties only snapshot's possebillety's but the cirkel would usualy break up this way, some achieved even kills in this method.
Lesser known is that some BF109's also used this defense cirkel against the better turning Fighters, the RAF found that when this happened when attacking a escorted Bomber force just two Raf fighters might simulate faint attacks on these cirkels while the rest oftheir unit would attack the unescorted LW Bombers!

Later on the 'Lufbury' was used in combat by US pilots (Who gave the name of the US pilot to this tactic) and the RAF and SAAF, the Top Western Ace Hans Joachim Von Marseille was able to kill aircraft in the cirkel while diving from above throug the formation.

regards,
Kees.

XyZspineZyX
11-25-2003, 05:38 AM
Don't know how many postings have been made about a possible name for the BoB sim, but....

"FINEST HOUR - the Battle of Britain" seems like a pretty obvious choice.

Can't call it just "Battle of Britain", because thats been done to death. "Finest Hour", is instantly recognizeable, captures the essence of the first purely aerial battle in history, and has a nice ring to it.

Budanova

XyZspineZyX
11-25-2003, 09:11 PM
a part of the what if campaign:

The germans have managed to almost annihilate the Fightercommand. OKL decides it is the time to start the landings.

Mission is like follows:

05:00 An armada of Bombers escorted by Me109 and Me110 takes off to attack Radar Stations, Airfields and Targets on the ground in the landing places. This is actually a bait force, to attract the remaining fighters and all British attention

05:20 Groups of Ju-52 with escort of Stukas, Me110 and Me 109 take off to make massive paratroop landings at Hastings and the Surroundings. Before that, The escort attacks any remaining targets on the ground.

06:00 A convoy , escorted by Kriegsmarine(Battleships, Cruisers, Destroyers, Torpedoboats, submerged subs in the flanks) heads for Dover and The beaches(are there any?).The Convoy consists of Merchant ships, Landing craft, Torpedo boats with troops, etc.

The bait force is intercepted with all Fighters left. Then the Ju-52s follow, flying at 130m(that was the usual height). They are intercepted on their return and A British pilot sees the Convoy. The Royal Navy is immediately alerted and soon form a force of everything they could muster to throw back the Invasion. Bomber Command, on the other hand send all their bombers to attack the German infantry and help stopping the invasion.
Luftwaffe's goal is to gain superiority over the landing sites and above the Convoy, hitting the British ships, and performing a Combat Air Patrol above the convoy.

That scenario ensures excellent anti-ship, ground-attack, interception and Air Cover missions for both of the sides.

Some things are worth fighting for...
And most of them wear mini skirts.
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-26-2003, 01:01 AM
My Wish Santa:

I would love it if the player could have control over how his/her sides campaign was fought.

I would like to be able to draw up missions, assign aircraft and targets basically play "chess" with my units and also fly in the any mission I had created. I would also like the campaign to run in real-time similar to the way the campaign engine runs in Falcon 4.0. You could run the whole or part of the campaign personally or let the sim do it for you.

This next one might take the idea further but allow the player to also control the ground forces but only from the point of view of moving units on a map, Falcon 4.0 allowed this too.

Just my two cents.

Regards,
Codex
319th Melbourne Raptors

XyZspineZyX
11-26-2003, 02:00 AM
Don't know if this is a repeat, but would be nice to have PAC (parachute and cable) weapons, mobile radar (I just discovered this is how they replaced units like Ventnor when first hit) and guns that freeze up at high altitude (the guns were pneumatic in the early Spits and Hurris).

Oh, and the ability to mine harbors by dropping them from the Do-17s...

XyZspineZyX
11-26-2003, 11:04 AM
Highly detailed mission Builder with goals, and its own scripting language.

(See Sub Command as an example)

Then, the only limit to our game is our imagination.

Also:

1) Weather: as real as possible, doesn't have to look perfect just do what its supposed to do, I want cloud down to 100 feet, i want bands of cloud of different types at different heights, including wind. I want to be able to hide in the cloud and pounce on the enemy.

2) Deformable terrain. If a bomb hits the runway, theres a hole.

looking forward to it.


/Mad

Comsa (http://www.comsa.co.uk)



"When the hunter comes, the tiger runs with the deer."
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XyZspineZyX
11-27-2003, 04:53 AM
1) BOB has to include large bombing raid missions with large amounts of a\c in the air

2) Reproduce the major\decisive air battles and allow players to fly these in single missions.


3) Add an option for quick missions to start on the ground and end on the ground, thus creating\flying a full mission through the use of the Quick mission builder.

4) The campaign can be dynamic (must) but I think the idea of the player single handedly controlling the outcome is a bit ridiculous. Dynamic can just mean that (like Falcon 4.0) the "campaign clock" is constantly running and missions\battles are constantly taking place. I dont like the idea of personally changing history unless you want to add some kind of Battlefield command type game where the player controls all actions of the Lufftwaffe or RAF.

5) Expand the types of missions currently available and move to a much wider array of possible missions. In every WW2 flight sim, weve had: Sweep, Intercept, Interdiction, Bomb Target and thats about it. What about a career in a recon plane spotting\attacking U-boats.

6) Random engine\weapon\system failures in the campiagn with option to turn them off. Engines randomly are problematic, weapons jam, electronic, oxygen system failures etc. Hell, Ive read accounts of 109 pilots whose wings fell off during flight. It is war you know.

7) Dont add any RPG elements to this game. It is a flight sim. Although the idea of more experienced pilots having better\sharper sight is intriguing.

8) Better sense of speed. Add more low poly objects on the ground and increase the "speed" of the game. 400mph is extremely fast and ground is covered in tremendous leaps and bounds. FB does a pretty good job of this because of the detail texturing on the landscape but more can be done. I mean the actual speed at which the virtual planes fly through the virtual air and over the ground.

9) Allow players to re-paint their a\c anyway they wish and fly online AND in off-line play. For instance, the ability to paint\add German crosses on your Spitfire for the number of air victories youve scored in your campaign.

10) Better sound. IL-2 has all these dynamic\doppler\sonar\attenuation sounds etc. This is Greek to just about everyone and only really shines on fly-bys or in outside views. Most people only care about the sounds in the cockpit. Dare I say CFS2 had the best engine sounds of any flight sim ever? Each particular plane had .wav sounds for startup\idle\slow\medium\fast\boost r.p.m and shutdown. Guess what? It sounded really good!! Damn near perfect. Sounds dont need to be a dynamic, mind-boggling, system grinding headache. They just need to be in stereo and sound realistic!! Hearing a naval gun blast from 3km like its inside your eardrum is far from realistic. The dynamic outside view sounds are secondary and not very important. No pilot sat outside his plane.

11) In a career (have the option to) start as a trainee and go through flight school performing various tasks. Maybe even take actual pilot Q&A trainee tests? Your final score in training reflects your rank when you begin combat.

12) Living cities: Not just densely populated with buildings, but also people, cars etc. And all running like hell when I come careening from the air in my Stuka. I dont mean 1000 polygon count, ultra-detailed people running through the streets, but not 2-d sprites either. The sense of speed should be great enough over the ground that it is not possible to sit down and study the moving ground objects so much can be done here.

13) No arcade-like "core of the sun" atom-bomb size muzzle flashes, explosions, shockwaves. An explosion creates a very quick flash, then debris is seen flying through the air. In the daytime almost no flash is seen.

14) Smarter AI. I cant tell you how many times I shoot down all enemy aircraft, in all missions, in all campaigns, in all the flight sims Ive ever played. This is just about every WW2 flght sim for PC ever made.

15) Better Focke Wolfe 190 forward view.

16) Add a "skip to next waypoint" function on the keyboard. I want to fly in the Battle of Britian but I also sometimes have things to do other than sit in front of the computer through 1+ hour flights. Time compression is a limiter because of different system specs. A minimal system is not going to run 8X time compression and I want to get through more than 3 missions in an afternoon of playing.

15) Rework the "Black-out" effects when pulling hard positive G's. In real life you lose the color in your vision before completely blacking out. This seems feasable given the current\future video card special effects.

16) Allow for MUCH more customizable options in the Video Options within the game, and in plain understandable english. I hate to keep bringing this up but I played CFS2 on a AMD-366, 64mb RAM, 16mb Voodoo3 for along time and the game ran very very well. I would get 20-25 fps with reasonable graphics settings. For alot of people 25fps is acceptable. I relate this to a special feature that CFS2 had that would add\subtract textures from the game dependant on the current frame rate. It was a "performance management" or something like that. Anyway it was a brilliant addition to the game and allowed low to medium spec systems to run just fine instead of constant stuttering\slowdown because the game is forcing certain textures to be drawn. Also I would like to see an extra high graphics setting that is beyond current systems at the time. This adds tremendous future replayability. For instance ULTRA populated cities, clouds, textures that are out of reach of the current systems but down the road when users can upgrade their computer, can be used.

17) Allow players to CREATE their own landscape, campaigns, missions, etc. For instance some guy who lives in Paris who just happens to be a very good programmer and a big fan of BOB wants to recreate the city like its never been done before. Oleg, please let him do it!!

18) After BOB has reached its peak in sales and has subsided considerably several years from now, release the source code and developmental tools to a 3rd party. This creates ultimate replayability\longevity in games and more money in your wallet for a simple reason: Someone may create something in the game that attracts users who werent interested before. IL-2 is now $20 in most software stores. FB will see its peak after the add-on is released. European Air War and Falcon 4.0 have thrived on the contributions by its community. Falcon 4.0, not LOMAC is the King of Jet flight sims for this simple fact alone. Many more copies of these games were sold because there were major overhauls and face-lifts to these games. Face it. I have purchased several sims that otherwise I wasnt interested in. Comanche vs Hokum, Silent Hunter 2 come to mind. Silent Hunter 2 had alot of potential that was never covered. I bought it and was not that impressed. The 3rd party modders who do it for love have sold more copies for UBI because they have "picked up where the developers left off." The way the computer software industry advances makes this a very good idea!! Mark my words!!!

19) Janes Attack Squardon had a very unique pilot cockpit veiw. The view would alter to allow the pilot to see around the bar that runs along the top of the cockpit and around struts. It was a very good attempt at realism and was not jsut eye candy but doable as it allowed the pilot to see around obstructions in the cockpit.

20) Bring back the bullet impact sounds. Read any account of a WW2 pilot taking fire and youd think, from his words, that the world was coming to an end!!! For him it was!!! Large calibur projectiles striking the aircraft caused a sensory overload for the pilot on the recieving end and often caused him to soil his underwear. 20mm hits to the plane would cause such an impact that the engine would temporarily cut-off then back on.

21) Show pilot's hands\feet\torso in the cockpit

22) Aircraft during the BOB era werent very durable. A good 2-3 second burst would bring down all but the most stubborn. Even with the light browning 303s. A 2-3 second burts lets out a hailstorm of screaming lead. Players shouldnt have to "aim for the cockpit" or "aim for the wing root" to successfully bring down a plane. A 2-3 second burst was usually the case in 1940, lets see it in 2005. I think the DM has gone overboard in that sense. In other words, yes I like the advanced damage model, but I still think that having to use half your ammo to bring down a plane that fills your windscreen is realistic regardless if the bullets land in the "empty fuelsalage" or not. I think the IL-2, B-17 and Thunderbolt were the only planes to stand out in WW2 for their legendary durability.

23) Eliminate Bomber gunner sniper laser fire. There werent that accurate for cryin out loud. They couldnt have been Oleg, think about it. Especially at great ranges and speeds.

24) Reduce the number of tracer rounds to their realistic levels. Tracers were every 5 or 6th? bullet in the ammo belt. Some aircraft did not even have tracer rounds. Without the muzzle flashes this shouldnt be a problem.

Thanks for reading my post and listening to your customers. Happy Thanksgiving everyone. Whether you celebrate or not, its a reason to pig out and get fat.

XyZspineZyX
11-27-2003, 01:45 PM
Online wise,I'd like to see more objective style missions to complement the already well known, well played, and well established static dogfight missions.
Thanks.

http://www.assonetart.com/BigBeauDoll.jpg

Like the moon over
The day, my genious and brawn
Are lost on these fools
~haiku

XyZspineZyX
11-28-2003, 05:17 AM
May have been mentioned before......but the ability to fly across different maps would be great. Say you go to Berlin starting from Hungary...... Of course that is assuming that eventually BoB will encompass the entire war....just starting in the west. Considering that the sim will be a whole new FM,DM,GM etc. even the familiar Eastern front would take on a whole new appeal.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

<CENTER><FONT COLOR="ORANGE">vflyer@comcast.net<FONT COLOR>
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XyZspineZyX
11-29-2003, 12:13 AM
*bump* to Page 1.

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XyZspineZyX
11-29-2003, 02:07 AM
So far we have had no official response to this thread. Are we a) making a valid contribution or b) peeing in the wind because it's already been decided.

Do those suggesting something useful get a prize?

How about a BoB forum/page at least - it's about time.



<CENTER>

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</CENTER>

XyZspineZyX
11-30-2003, 02:24 AM
Dunkelgrun wrote:
[snip]
-
- How about a BoB forum/page at least - it's about
- time.
-

Maybe when they move these forums over to the new web server which Thunak announced. (?)

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XyZspineZyX
11-30-2003, 02:32 PM
well, maybe something for mission implementation that didn't really seem to come out in EAW.
In case of intercepts, no more ending up just behind or in front of an enemy formation. but be able to attack from the sides or quarters as well.

I'm a crappy pilot, but one hell of a shot.

XyZspineZyX
11-30-2003, 08:15 PM
Euro snoopy, here you go...

Night fighter campaign...

Reconnaisence...

Night bomber...

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 04:29 PM
For the Campaign, it would be cool to have the option to require a new pilot to go through a training program, starting with DeHavilland Tiger Moth/Miles Magister, working up to a Spit or Hurricane. Some BoB pilots only had 10 hours in the Spit before being sent to an operational squadron.

XyZspineZyX
12-02-2003, 01:55 AM
This is just a concept I've been wanting to see for a while allthough I havn't really thought it all the way out.I'd like to see some sort of 1 on 1 deathmatch elimination game mode.Where a group of ppl could get together to dogfight to see who is the best.The victor would stay to move on to the next round to move up the ladder while the rest could spectate.There would be a certain area to fight in (so we wouldn't have to wait all day on someone being chased or watch them climb to 20,000 meters) and it would be timed (otherwise ppl would get bored and leave).This wouldn't be very historical but it sure would be fun.S~

XyZspineZyX
12-02-2003, 03:23 AM
I dont have the time to read everything in this thread, so pardon me if someone allready proposed these points:



When making Bob, please think about the newbies:

- Strengthen the "Training" section
- detail and demonstrate weak and strong points of every planes by the means of tracks inside the training section
- give tactical lessons for 1-on-1 and teamplay, respectfull of WWII doctrines in each camp
- describe some famous battles or missions (tracks).

^^^^ a cheap way to improve a game (no new technology involved)

- Force UBI to host good tracks on their website so that newbies can progress quickly (ubi sponsored competitions, remarquable individual or team contributions, etc)

- Add a debrieffing part with gun cameras and tactical analysis.



Respect history but let us dream:

- create a playgroung for testing dangerous prototypes that never saw the real war (mission Supermarine's test-pilot in 1939, Henkel's, captured planes, 46 project, etc ...).
- put us in the skin of a test pilot and maybe engineers who tweak these prototypes


Make the AI strong if you like, but dont give it super-planes or super-human habilities:

- black/red veil for everybody including the AI
- limited field of vision and scan
- make the game difficult, but fair.


Remove some boring aspects present in FB and add some surprises:

- try to avoid the same oil leakages on the windscreen again and again
- increase the number of possible failures and ways to die
- work on the interface and especially the position of messages, their size, persistance
- give engine/plane infos thru the mean of dis/appearing icons at the bottom of the screen.
- add a player model in cockpit mode, even a simple one that doesnt move the switches. Map on the knees.
- allow the player to modify the position of his head or make it automatic. Btw, when watching behind him, the pilot tries to obtain the best angle of vision.


On the game interface:

- Please give us a better communication system. A configurable one (see games like tribes1&2)
- A screen to configure the position of the messages


And finaly, some debatable points:

- Some planes are desincarnated. You can't feel the speed, the vibrations and the limits of your plane (see mig3), while other planes give a great immersion (109).
- I'm not satisfied with the visibility of planes at mid distance. I think there is a problem with rendered contrast and some aiming reticles are almost opaque.


Thank you for reading and good luck.

XyZspineZyX
12-02-2003, 05:56 AM
Something I'd like to see is the incorporation of hardstands at the airfields and the ability to start from them, as opposed to a line of planes strung out on a runway.
Especially with the heavy bombers.

And while I realize BoB means Battle of Britain, My hope is that it will eventually evolve into a full blown western theater sim and therefore, I'd like to recommend a couple publications for the programers and developers.

Book 1: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0900913096/qid=1070340013/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-1298917-9989735?v=glance&s=books "Airfields of the Eighth Then and now."

Book 2: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0750931760/qid=1070340206/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-1298917-9989735?v=glance&s=books "USAAF Handbook 1939 - 1945."

And of course a map that is all inclusive of the entire western theater of operations and the ability to fly from bases in Britain clear into the heart of Berlin.

There is also a third book, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0890159343/qid=1070340803/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/102-1298917-9989735?v=glance&s=books "Diary of an Air War." that relates in great detail every target ever bombed by the Eighth.

Thanks Mr. Maddox. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
12-13-2003, 05:38 PM
Would be good if during a mission one could land at base and take up another plane especialy if damaged or out of ammo or have groundcrew rearm plane in some form.

Also the possibility to take off from an airbase with an AC or flight of AC of ones choice and fly into enemy territory and engage air or ground targets without being tied/limited to a specific mission objective eg: time, target area and encounter whatever comes at you ie: enemy air ground defences spawn in some random manner but so a succesful strike and return to base/airfield could have a possotive effect on a campaign etc,




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XyZspineZyX
12-14-2003, 12:26 PM
Several veterans describe the "hailstones on a thin roof" sound encountered when shot at by detonating flak shells when fliyng trough these flak clouds and shrapnell fragments one wouldhear the sound simular to hailstones hitting metal,
This effect would increase the 'thrill' of fliyng through flak some more.

Discribed in the same book i got this info from is the fact that during the V1 attacks on Britain the AAA used proximety fuses that increased the chance of hitting these fast fliyng bombs somewhat, Against aircraft these aa shells that would explode when hitting or fliyng past a object, therefore the RAF fighters (Mosquito, Spit and Tempest) hunting for the 'Buzzbombs'where restricted to fly below a certain level in the flak covered area's in order not to be shotdown by friendly fire!

Also of interest is the 3 Mastadont Flak fortresses that proteccted Berlin from the allied 'round the clock bombing'

These were a minium of 40 meters high with 2 meters reinforced concrete walls and 3m. bomb proof roofs with triple 12.8 cm, 8.8, 3.7 and 20mm 'flakvierling' cannon.
These Towers doubled as radar post/controll, Luftwaffe hospital and bombshelter for 15 upto 20.000 people and museum artefacts and ammo!

They were positioned at the Zoo station, Friederichshain and Humboldt-Hain.

This info comes from the recomended book by Alexander McKee; The Mosquito log
Souvenir press
ISBN 0285 62838 0

A must for the fan of the Mossie and people interested at first hand accounts from the WWII over Europe and Medeteranian.

XyZspineZyX
12-14-2003, 12:44 PM
Ok I said it before... Bob should feature finger four formation take off's, when you see WWII material of 'hot scramble's' (Emergency take off) the aircraft took off in formation in order to safe time very importand when attacked or forming op in large formations.

This was done most of the time from the makeshift grassfield airbases that both sides used because the hardened landing strips would be a primary target for enemy bombers and friendly bombers needed hardened surface more so than fighters.

But when takingof in single file like whe are used to in FB

should feature a take off oficer WAAF or Luftwaffe helferin, that signals each a/c to take off on its turn! either hand or flag or flare signal could be used for this.

For landings green or red flares were used also to signal landing clearence or abort.

A windhose to direct the wind derection is essential on each airfield

These items would enhance realism, atmosphere and would be usefull!

MarkGos
12-18-2003, 07:31 PM
Lots of good idea's. I don't think this one has raised it's head yet.

In Rowans BOB when landing with the cockpit canopy open you had the ability to lean out to the left or right so you could look along the nose of the aircraft. Really handy when landing/takeoff etc.

Whilst I don't really care about the ability to open the cockpit I think the ability to view along the fuselage would make this addition valuable.

The propellor is there to keep the pilot cool. Switch it off and watch them sweat!

Regards
Gos from Oz

artjunky
12-19-2003, 11:58 AM
I like this idea

<p align="center">http://www.artjunky.com/phantomfighters/images/419x100phantomfighters01.gif (http://www.artjunky.com/phantomfighters/default.asp)

http://www.artjunky.com/phantomfighters (http://www.artjunky.com/phantomfighters/)

http://phantomfighters.sqhq.net (http://phantomfighters.sqhq.net/)</p>

Shakespear
12-22-2003, 11:13 PM
If England's fighters can hold out long enough...Britian is saved!
If Germany can draw the cautious Brits into a war of fighter attrition Goering's plan prevails.
But Some like Douglas Bader and his Canadian pilots wanted to use the "Big Wing" and really stick it to the Hunn. WOULD YOU? It would have been a bold risk to make all out counter attacks... possibly incouring catastrophic loses or taking Germany's luftwafel out of the air.
Some say Georing could have cut loose his fighters from escourting those lumbering bombers, to smash the Brits and paved the way for the invasion of England. WOULD YOU? But that would leave the bombers open to attack and what if the Brits declined to counter in mass? You'd lose bombers and find few fighters to knock down, bad idea.
Some here have argued that they want to only fly and to hell with the strategy. But this was the Battle of Britain! The technique and strategy of both attack and defence evolved day by day. Would you learn from yesterday's failure or victories?... Your enemy will.

rbstr44
02-01-2004, 06:29 PM
This thread ought to be sticky....please? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

rbstr44
02-03-2004, 06:49 AM
Pretty please? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif