View Full Version : Blakduk, I need some info

05-16-2005, 01:34 PM
Hi Blakduk,

I've read a few of your posts here and have come to respect you as being openminded and knowledgable, and best of all objective.

Now I have a favor to ask you. I'm doing some personal research and have come to the point where I must start looking into the details of the connection between Hitler and the Papacy. To be honest I know nothing about this, simply that there was some sort of relative connection.

If you are familiar with this could you please write a basic summary. Once I've the basics I'll know where to begin researching and from what angle.

If anyone else has objective information it would also be greatly appreciated. This is for historical research ONLY and if someone posts subjective responses I hope the mods lock this thread right away.

Objective and accurate historical information can be posted here or in my private topics.

Thanx in advance. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Fritz Franzen

05-16-2005, 02:19 PM
I saw a video called (revelation of a mother goddess)that a man named David Icke did(go to david Icke.com) about a lady named,i think this is her name,Cathy O Brian that was raised as a mind controlled slave for the top european families, and her roll was to perform satanic rituals for the elite families (Rothchild,hapsburgs,bush,english royalties etc) and she says on the video that she was raised to fulfill this part by the man named Joseph Mengle(dr of death as he was known in the nazi concentration camps) who was transported thru the help of the vatican to the united states and argentina after ww2 to teach the secrets of mind controll to the CIA and other sinister groups. He lived in the USA for several years untill his death in the 80s. Check out his site for more info if you want and believe what you wish when you go there, he says some incredibble things. Sorry thats all i know, they used to call them the vatican lines, thats how many of the top scientist and the like escaped germany near the end of the war, look for the info on the jesuits there a nasty bunch, not what people think or know of them thats for sure.

05-17-2005, 02:49 AM
Thx Jessie, I'll look into that.


05-17-2005, 08:29 PM
Pirschjaeger- sorry for the delay dude, i've been working my a*rse off lately and havent had time to keep up to date with the forum.
Unfortunately most of the info i have re the Nazis and the papacy comes from sources that i cant readily recall- I'll endeavour to track them down. The facist regime of Mussolini certainly had a working relationship with the vatican, one that verged on being a protection racket. There were examples of individual priests inciting anti-semitism but its not clear that this became a doctrine endorsed by the churhc organisation.
Hitler seems to have taken the same political tactic with the Catholic church as he did with most of his enemies- he sought to make a truce with them, initially respected their rights etc, but ultimately sought to undermine and control them.
There is evidence to show that the Nazis regarded Christianity as a corruption of Judaism that was inflicted on Western europe displacing their 'true' Germanic religions (they were many and varied but the main characters seem to have been figures such as Woden, Thor, Frig, Freya, etc). This seems to be reflected in the Nazis revival of supposedly 'ancient' traditions mainly involving animist, occult festivals and nature worship. Also, Hitler's fascination with Wagner, in particular 'The Ring Cycle', seems to support that. Whether he truly believed this or used this as a means of inspiring nationalist sentiments is not clear- he undoubtedly knew the power of symbols.
Hitler regarded Christianity as a 'weak' religion that adored meekness and modesty- he apparently saw this as emasculating the German people. He strove to restore the 'strong' religions that reinforced strength-of-arms and the right of the strong to enforce their will on the weak- 'the natural order of things'. His manifesto in Mein Kampf makes constant referral to a perverse view of Darwin's theory of evolution- it endorsed eugenic ideas of the 'purity of the species' and saw it as a crime to keep the 'unhealthy' specimens alive. The Christian ethos of 'sanctity of life' certainly had no place in the Nazi universe. The ultimate extension of this was the ideal of the 'ubermensch'- again a corruption, this time of the philosophy of Nietzsche. The whole Nazi regime was based on this bizarre concept that if the human species was left to its own devices, that 'naturally superior' men (women had little role beyond the home) would rise to prominence and take leadership roles. Of course what happened was chaos, despite the rhetoric he and Goebbels spouted. Leaders such as Albert Speer were constantly frustrated in their attempts to impose order and standardisation across industry in the Reich.
The other point to make is the Catholics fear of Communism, which was entirely atheist. After the revolution in 1918 open war on the established Christian churches in the USSR frightened the Vatican- Hitler cunningly didnt declare war on them himself and tried to portray that he didnt want the Vatican or the Catholic institutions violated. The Catholic church was allowed to mostly go about its business without interference from the Wermacht- although certain publications were confiscated and attempts were made to halt vatican radio broadcasts later in the war. Indeed, a large number of Germans were Catholic and it would have been stupid to openly attack their beliefs at that time. Whereas as Karl Marx had defined religion as being 'the opiate of the masses' and sought to abolish it, Hitler seems to have taken that as a truth and tried to use it! Had he won, he would certainly have made further attempts to crush Christianity in the West.
Pope Pious XII acknowledged after WW2 that they had failed to take a strong enough public stance against the facists- but this seems to have been a failing of most governments and organisations until after the main conflict began. Pious did seem to recognise the danger but felt he couldnt halt the facist advance, he was forced into negotiating with them which resulted in the Nazis being able to hail it as an acknowlegement of their legitimacy by the papacy. Hitler seems to have beguiled the Catholic hierarchy with his appearance of being a 'strong man' who could defend them against anarchy- a message he had used previously to make himself Chancellor. As Pious XII stated after the war they may have been able to save more lives while losing more possessions such as the grand cathedrals etc, but it may have also just increased the massacre.
Some historians have labelled Hitler an idiot for picking too many fights at once. It seems apparent however that circumstances overtook him and he actually displayed a lot of cunning in choosing when to fight. Initially enough people underestimated him to allow him the chance to seize control- many realised too late that their 'servant' had become their master.
As for formal agreements between the Nazis and the Vatican however all i know of is the 'concordant'- if i can track down more detail i'll post it here.
I'm flattered that you asked me to give an opinion, i'm sorry however that i dont have the goods for you.

05-17-2005, 10:46 PM
I have found one link that mentions the formal agreement between the Nazis and the Vatican:
It seems to contradict some other sources i have read previously and gives the impression that the Catholic church was more openly hostile to the Nazis. It certainly gives the impression that the catholic church's official doctrine was very concerned with saving Jews from the holocaust.
History is indeed open to interpretation.

05-17-2005, 11:00 PM
Hi Blakduk, thx for posting, your information is interesting.

Yes, Hitler had a very ignorant and subjective view on evolution. Whether it was actually ignorant or orchestrated propaganda, he was quite wrong.

His idea about Christianity being on off-shoot of Judaism was however closer to reality, although information written in the ancient scrolls was not available during his time. Modern Christianity, for the most part, is an amalgamation of many Jewish Christian sects by an ingenius politician. A political move that saved his power and Kingdom.

It's possible the reason for Hitler to try to bring back the old religions was to create his own army of crusaders. Maybe after Europe was secured and the Vatican surrounded he planned to start a religious war and remove Christianity from the European continent.

Since I was a child I have been trying to figure out where and why anti-semetism exists. Sure, I've heard the "money jealousy" excuses but even as a child that made no sense to me. It's just not logical.

The word "Holocaust", in terms of genocide against the Jews, was first used in England in the 1500's and it involved the Jews. The same goes with the second time at a later date, the third time being of course in Europe. Something interesting to me is the fact that for each time, the Papacy was involved somehow. Why?

This has taken my research back to the beginnings of Christianity. It seems that anti-semetism may stem from this time. Even more interesting, Jews and Muslims got along with each other very well and respected each other's beliefs before the Jewish Christian sects were united for political purposes.

Some thing else I've found to be very interesting is the fact that of the many different bibles, they are basically the same with acception to the Catholic bible. It always confused me with supposed quotes of Jesus that were contradictory or in direct conflict. I started comparing bibles and found the quote that conflicts with a previous quote, is usually in the Catholic bible only, but the first quote is basically the same in every bible. But now I'm getting off topic.

I also read and studied "The Protocals of The Elders of Zion". I'm sure you are familiar with that. This was a must read for me considering it has been used as propaganda against the Jews. At first it didn't seem to sway me either way. I was still on the fence. Recently, I reread it and realized many mistakes made by the writer. I noticed there was nothing in it that an outsider of Judaism wouldn't know. If this secret document was supposedly meant for 300 very influential and religious Jews, why doesn't it give nothing more than common knowledge into the religion or society. The only Hebrew terms used were common amoung Christians. I won't go into details but I now feel 99% sure it was propaganda and written by an anti-semetic.

Anyways, I haven't come to any conclusions yet but there has been an obvious pattern. I think I'm starting to understand.

This has been both an interesting and sad journey through a brief flash in human history. It started in my first year of Kindergarten in Toronto and was sparked by classmates calling me "jew-killer", "nazi", and "Fritz". I accepted the latter. Now, 30+ years later, I think I'm finally beginning to understand.

To anyone who wants to flame me, this is not about religion or even your religion, but about the greed and selfishness humanity and religion has suffered. No crusaders please.


05-17-2005, 11:13 PM
Blakduk, I've often wondered if "The Protocols ot the Learned Elders of Zion" could have been part of the fuel for Hitler's anti-semetism and goals. Scotland Yard studied it and claimed it to be a valid threat. Even Churchhill, with his anti-semetic views in the 20's felt something needed to be done.

Do you have any opinions or info on this?


05-17-2005, 11:33 PM
Pirschjaeger- thanks to the wonders of Google i have another interesting document to post.
As for the question of 'why is there anti-semitism?'- Man, that's huge question and one that's loaded with controversy.
Personally, and i'll probably get banned for this, i think that ultimately the Jews as a group are not terribly good at fostering allies. They are fierce fighters, academically brilliant, extremely loyal to each other, but EXCLUSIVE. They are typically seen as a group apart from the mainstream in whichever culture they inhabit, especially the orthodox forms of their religion. In keeping with this, they are typically successfull in business, influential among the powerful, but most often they are in a minority (These comments of course are generalisations and there will be many examples of exceptions). Not a good combination to have when things go pear-shaped and the masses are looking for scapegoats. When a society is under great stress its always very tempting to attack 'the other', whomever is not of your own tribe. .
As for specific items used to incite hatred such as "The Protocals of The Elders of Zion", they are used by the malicious to inflame passions in the ignorant- as you pointed out there are many reasons to be suspicious of that document. Only an audience PRIMED to accept it as valid would do so.
Of course, Christianity is a product of Judaism, as is Islam. They all use the old testament as the bedrock of their beliefs.

05-18-2005, 12:07 AM
Good point Blakduk. Your post about the Jews immediately brought the Freemasons to mind. As for as I know, they are similar to your description of the Jewish society in regards to secrecy and exclusiveness. Like the Jews, they are harmless but the secrecy and exclusiveness will always raise suspicion and prejudices. It's either flaw in human nature or a instintual protective device. Either way, in modern times, it's not good for humanity.

Something I've realized is that there are no true secrets. All the information for anything is readily available. But some things do remain somewhat secret to the masses simply due to their lack of ambition and initiative to actually hunt down the info.

I will sift through the info you've given and as always it will present new leads. If this thread turns into a flamefest I would like to continue this with you in private topics. So far it's been good as we have remain objective.

All opinions and inputs are welcome in this thread but personal restraint is requested. Imagine, not that long ago we would have been put to death for even opening this conversation. Human evolution is positive and communication is the most important key.


05-18-2005, 12:10 AM
Pirschjaeger- sorry dude, i missed your last post while i was replying.
I think a text like 'The Protocals of The Elders of Zion' viewed in a modern context looks to us a bit like 'Piltdown Man'- we look at it and wonder 'How did educated people fall for that?'
Hitler certainly used it is as 'evidence' of a global Jewish conspiracy but it seems his anti-semetic views were well established without it. One of Hitler's enduring beliefs was that the Germans had been betrayed in the first world war, he seemed to firmly believe that they could have won against the allies if the German government hadnt signed the treaty of Versaille. He was on the lookout for enemies and his paranoid vision locked onto Jews, as well as Communists and others, as being responsible for stabbing the German forces in the back.
This wasnt only believed by Hitler, he had many disgruntled ex-soldiers agreeing with him. It was part of the reason the allies called for an 'unconditional' surrender in WW2, so they could be left in no doubt that they had lost.