PDA

View Full Version : OT: What PC game today has the best possible AI?



SeaFireLIV
03-06-2006, 07:10 AM
Just wondering. I notice PC users are quite harsh when judging the AI, so where best than to ask here, as some of you do other programs than just FB. I`ve seen a few, CIv4, RTW, Morrowind, UFO aftershock, NFSIII, NFS Most wanted etc...

In your experiences, which game has had the best, most believeable AI - and not just because it`s harder. What game has made you think "Wow! that was eerily clever!"

If there are indeed any.

Pirschjaeger
03-06-2006, 07:16 AM
Pac-man http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

Capt.LoneRanger
03-06-2006, 07:20 AM
Space Invaders? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

domenlovrec
03-06-2006, 07:25 AM
Half Life 2. Be sure!

TX-Zen
03-06-2006, 07:30 AM
Chessmaster 9000

Manuel29
03-06-2006, 07:38 AM
F.E.A.R. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

El Turo
03-06-2006, 08:46 AM
Half Life 2 is pretty good, but I think FarCry's AI was better.

Doug_Thompson
03-06-2006, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by TX-Zen:
Chessmaster 9000

No argument there.

I haven't played it, but just happened to read a review of the sequel to "Galactic Civilizations." It's AI was very highly praised, and it didn't use cheap cheats like more resources, etc.

Xiolablu3
03-06-2006, 09:02 AM
I still dont think the original Halflife soliders have been beaten.

How the soliders move in in groups, attack and then retreat. Regroup and come back together using grenades to flush you out.

I know Halflife 2 probably has the same AI but improved, but I didnt get the same feeling from it, partly becasue the levels werent as well designed.

sgilewicz
03-06-2006, 09:05 AM
F.E.A.R gets my vote also. Wickedly good at flanking, circling and grenade use!

elphifou
03-06-2006, 09:22 AM
Has anyone tried Brothers in Arms / BiA Earned in Blood ?

They say the AI is quite smart in it, but I don't know...

woofiedog
03-06-2006, 09:30 AM
Return to Castle Wolfenstein has some fairly good AI and also both Brothers in Arms especially with the Earned in Blood version... they try and out flank you if you sit still to long.

F6_Ace
03-06-2006, 09:58 AM
easier to say which does not have good ai. three guesses.

no one mentioned halo/halo2. ai may not use team tactics but they have realistic line of sight and panic mode etc

Doug_Thompson
03-06-2006, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by elphifou:
Has anyone tried Brothers in Arms / BiA Earned in Blood ?

They say the AI is quite smart in it, but I don't know...

Yes. Brothers in Arms is quite good. It's an excellent game all-around. The last time I made my wife too mad to talk to me was last year, when she caught me playing that one at 4 a.m. Never finished it.

SnapdLikeAMutha
03-06-2006, 10:14 AM
I always thought the first Unreal had good AI.

From the SkaarjAssassins who would hide in the dark and wait til your back was turned to pounce, to the Elite Mercs who would draw you into a corner with gunfire then plaster you with rockets and the Troopers who would bounce 'nades and Razors round cover to flush you out.

Of course, AI isn't really AI at all, it's just a set of neat tricks that NPCs perform http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Capt.LoneRanger
03-06-2006, 10:52 AM
Okay, this was for real? There is no such thing as AI.

However - it all comes down to where the scripts run best.

HL2? Nope - HL1 (and Unreal1 - not UT!) had better KI with different attack-patterns, aggression, etc. After a while you know how they react and become extremely predictable. Same is for BIA and CODs. IMHO any AI defending a narrow path is stupid, as it only comes down to shooting down a narrow pathway. Boring.

I found FEAR and D3 to be quite stupid. The AI relies on surprise and surrounding. The same creature in a completely different, open or lighted area and it's just cannon-fodder.

Most Racing Sims proof to have quite good AI, but that is relative again. Driving around in circles is not a real difficult task to program. For the RacingGAMES you named, it's even more easy, as the SIM-part is rather negligible.

CivIV had a good AI, but only after the patches. Pre-Patch AI was good at the programable parts (tech-tree, developement, etc), but a complete inept at interacting and developing real strategies.

RTCW - let's just don't mention it...

Best A.I. so far IMHO was in Falcon4. It reacted to attacks with counter-offensives and defensive maneuvers, reorganized troops and found weaknesses in your defense with deadly precision.
Next best A.I. was in UT'99. I never had any Bot that learned my tactics and reacted accordingly before. If you tried the same trick a second time, you were dead (esp. teammodes like CTF and Assault). I also never had better teammates, who really reacted to orders, reported enemies, etc. UT2004 is even more thrilling, especially in Bombrun- and Onslaught-modes.
The AI that gave me the hardest time playing, ever, was Janes Longbow2. After you sneaked in and were located enemy defense moved into other positions, even encircled you. You seldomly could egress the same way you came in.

gx-warspite
03-06-2006, 11:12 AM
Absolutely most definitely Galactic Civilizations II.

F6_Ace
03-06-2006, 11:15 AM
C&C Red Alert? nope

SeaFireLIV
03-06-2006, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
Okay, this was for real? There is no such thing as AI.

.

Yes. Of course. there is no such thing as artificial intelligence (at least on public release). If you want then swap AI for programmed routines. I use AI for brevity.


I found halflife one`s AI better than halflife II`s imho, but unreal had the best Ai when it was first released. Counterstrike, Condition Zero has what must be the best AI I`ve seen to date. they hide in all the places offline players would and have caught me out a few times with their tricks.

Now Galactic Civilizations II has piqued my interest and I`ve heard much about its AI also, i might check it out. Thanx for the input guys.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Deedsundone
03-06-2006, 12:48 PM
I love the F.E.A.R one.

mortoma
03-06-2006, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by TX-Zen:
Chessmaster 9000 Chessamster what?? Hell, I'm still on CM-3000!!!!

NerdConnected
03-06-2006, 02:46 PM
SeaFireLIV,

Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin and Africa Korps are both pretty impressive with regard to AI.

It needs however a minute to calculate its next move and is not real-time, but it can really punish you when you make a stupid move. It feels like a WW2 chess game.

From all the flight sims I've played sofar, I would say Il2, even with its quirks, is still one of the best.

Mark

VW-IceFire
03-06-2006, 03:16 PM
Keep in mind that a half dozen of the games listed (mostly FPS) so far do not use any sophisticated AI at all. The designers have scripted their behavior according to the room or situation they are currently occupying so it is as much an artwork of the level designer as it is the science of the AI programmer.

The best AI I've seen is probably from Chess games...but that is also somewhat easy as the rules of chess are fairly simplistic compared to operating in a 3D world.

Quite honestly, no AI I've seen has impressed me all that much yet. They all have obvious patterns and most of them cheat the game to present a challenge. C&C Generals Insane AI gives me a solid run for my money and if I don't work fast it will beat me. But I also know that its cheating the game to a certain extent (with bonuses on costs and resources). Civilization games tend to have fairly moronic AI in many respects as they randomly declare wars, demand technologies, and don't execute planned unit movements.

AI is mostly a reactionary thing right now. We see that with the IL-2 series as well. They are very good at realizing "oh, someone is shooting me, I should barrel roll for the next 5 minutes to evade". But they are no good at thinking "hey the bad guys are known to be coming in at a higher altitude so I'll climb higher than them and bounce". You just don't get that from an AI...frankly you don't get that from three quarters of the human pilots online either (myself included half the time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)...but thats another story.

The AI is simply incapable of doing the sorts of things that we want them to do. Some games have "better" AI because the game either allows for scripted situations (the level is fairly condensed and a level designer can define areas for the AI to operate in or sections that they should hide behind) or because the nature of the game makes it easy to program AI that provides an effective challenge.

Flight sim AI is amongst the hardest around to do. They deal with dynamic and complex situations that require both awareness of an overall situation, awareness of personal state (speed, damage, fuel, ammo, etc.), ability to react to situations in a meaningful way, and requirement to deal with an evolving and dynamic scenario where thinking ahead is necessary. Particularly the last part the AI just flops down on. We know they can shoot you from insane angles...but we also know they can't think their way out a BNZ energy advantage or disadvantage situation.

The best AI currently available has difficulty manuvering a robot around a room. If you move a table or put a char in a different place while its doing its movement calculations...you can set it back hours before it'll make a move.

We very much take for granted and assume human thinking and personas on machines...but the honest truth is that they aren't there yet. They may never be there yet...not for quite a while. Even in 30 years when we build a computer that has the processing power of a human brain (roughly) it won't mean that they can think. It just means they can crunch numbers. Thinking is a rather more complex software issue.

Things like neural network AI is still very much in its infancy and its certainly not something we can put in games in any meaningful way yet.

Ob.Emann
03-06-2006, 06:53 PM
F.E.A.R hands down, with Call of Duty 2 coming in at a distant second.

danjama
03-06-2006, 07:06 PM
BIA:EIB has great AI, much harder than any FPS i played

The campaign is a corker too, i recommend that game to anyone! Be prepared to learn how to shoot again though http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

ImpStarDuece
03-06-2006, 09:19 PM
The A.I. in the Close Combat serise of WW2 top down, RTS games was always excellent, perhaps the most 'lifelike' I have ever encountered. Soliders would panic and break under heavy fire, or stick together under strong leadership. Tanks would withdraw under heavy fire and attack you from another position.

They used to pull all sorts of nasty tricks: hull down tanks on ridgelines, infantry ambushes from woods/buildings, concealed anti tank guns in defilade, rolling artillery barrages with smoke mixed in, MG and anti-tank guns with overlapping fields of fire.

The best moment I saw was defending against Germany in a Soviet Union Barbarossa campaign. The Germans sent infantry foward for recon and to act as a trip wire for the AT ambush I was trying to set up. When I had to spring it early or waste it all together, they covered the recon groups withdrawl with mortars and smoke, then brought in a pair of Pz IVs in to flank me. It took me a desperate 5 minutes of manouvering
my T-34s to get a kill and completely spoiled my defence plan. I took 40% casualties and got kicked out of two blocks of houses I was supposed to be defending.

Jumoschwanz
03-07-2006, 05:48 AM
A good chess program.

Capt.LoneRanger
03-07-2006, 07:18 AM
JFYI Chess Programs use scripted AI, too. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

I heared Cyberdyne Systems Cooperations is building a true AI. There was an explosion in one of their factories 10 years ago. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


@ ImpStarDuece:
I loved CloseCombat, the only true RTS-Game actually deserving that description, but the AI was dump.
Same for Total-War-Series. They became more competative over the years, but not really intelligent.
I'd perhaps vote for FullSpectrumWarrior. But that was not much more than a shoot'em up, either, so AI is more comparable with FPS-titles and then it rather sucked.

diablo_1917
03-07-2006, 07:24 AM
HTTR - Highway to the Reich, a real-time WW2 strategy game about Operation Market Garden. AI will form offensive and defensive plans, flank and encircle. There's virtually no graphics except for nice 2D maps with counters on them, it shows in the strength of AI.

SeaFireLIV
03-07-2006, 08:46 AM
I have Close combat 1,2 & 3 sitting on my shelf! I`d forgotten all about it!

You guys are right. It has does have pretty good AI, I`ll install it right now! Hopefully, it`ll run even easier now that my PC`s been upgraded since I last ran it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I usually visit every forum of every game I buy and AI is always a point of contention. Some say it`s great while others say it`s awful. Some people have highly UNREALISTIC EXPECTATIONS of AI. Even on forums where AI is universally considered excellent, there`s always someone who will completely deride it.


What I`m looking for is something that challenges, yet does reasonably wise things approaching Human realism.

Hopefully, within our lifetime we`ll see AI (programmed routines) that`s actually able to figure out and predict and especially LEARN.

LEXX_Luthor
03-07-2006, 09:24 AM
What about AI in the Silent Hunter submarine series? Anybody know?

arjisme
03-07-2006, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
JFYI Chess Programs use scripted AI, too. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif For book openings, yes. But once off book, they use AI. Nothing surprising there -- good chess players play book openings too, until they decide it is time to throw a curve at their opponent.

arjisme
03-07-2006, 09:53 AM
I should reply to the actual OP. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Here's another vote for the original Half Life AI. Don't really care whether it was scripted routines tailored for the level or true AI. What impressed me was the computer enemies behaved in a pretty realistic fashion and were challenging to beat. They helped maintain the illusion of that artificial world. I guess that is Turing's test, for the most part, right?

SeaFireLIV
03-07-2006, 11:56 AM
Yep. Creating the illusion. That`s what really matters.