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View Full Version : What should we expect of the CW-21B regarding its turn and rollrate?



DIRTY-MAC
02-22-2005, 02:14 PM
Anyone?

GerritJ9
02-22-2005, 02:38 PM
Don't expect it to be as manoeuverable as the A6M2, Ki43 or Buffalo; it probably WILL outclimb all three of them though.
I have tried to get information about its flight characteristics from former CW21B pilots through two veterans message boards here in the Netherlands, but no reply at all so far. However, the grandfather of one of my contacts flew Brewsters with 2-VlG-V over Singapore, Borneo and Java and perhaps it will be possible to obtain some concrete info through him. No doubt he will know if any of the CW21B pilots is still with us......... keep your fingers crossed.

Gibbage1
02-22-2005, 06:33 PM
When modeling it, I did a bit of research. From what I read, it will be a joy to fly. Very much like the Ki-43. Very light and responsive. Also it will have the edge in speed and climb. A HUGE edge in climb on early war servers. Looking at the specs, the Cw-21b was 100lb LIGHTER then the A6M2, SMALLER, and 100HP more. The key is the wings. A6M2 had much more wing area, better lift, and turned better. I would GUESS roll goes too the Cw-21b. Also, the Cw-21b had all its guns concentrated in the nose. 4x 7.62's all in a night tight group. There may be 2x .50/2x 7.62 or 4x .50 cal. I have sources that are very mixed on the armorment but Jeronimo says Dutch only got the 7.62's. Downfalls would be very light construction with no armor will make its damage model very similar to Zero's and Ki-43's, but the Cw-21b had pilot armor. Also it had a ring and bead gunsight. That will suck, but not as much as the Ki-43's Optic gunsight. In early war servers, it will be the 109 of the sky's. Nimble, but more suited to B&Z then T&B.

Gib

3.JG51_BigBear
02-22-2005, 06:50 PM
With that kind of performance you would think they would have rushed as many of those into service as they could have. At least as a stop gap until new tactics could be worked out for planes like the P-40 and Wildcat.

Gibbage1
02-22-2005, 07:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 3.JG51_BigBear:
With that kind of performance you would think they would have rushed as many of those into service as they could have. At least as a stop gap until new tactics could be worked out for planes like the P-40 and Wildcat. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Cw-21b went against everything the US thought it needed in an aircraft. IT was light, short range, and un-armored. It was also an export only aircraft. Something for "them" to fly, but not us. It was the mindset at the time. It did not matter if it was better or not.

SkyChimp
02-22-2005, 07:19 PM
With a 4300-4500 fpm climb rate, it should outclimb just about everything early-war.

Badsight.
02-22-2005, 09:24 PM
it should be a kick butt A/C

JR_Greenhorn
02-22-2005, 09:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 3.JG51_BigBear:
With that kind of performance you would think they would have rushed as many of those into service as they could have. At least as a stop gap until new tactics could be worked out for planes like the P-40 and Wildcat. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Cw-21b went against everything the US thought it needed in an aircraft. IT was light, short range, and un-armored. It was also an export only aircraft. Something for "them" to fly, but not us. It was the mindset at the time. It did not matter if it was better or not. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't know enough about the little Demon to verify Gibbage's info, but the same rationale ("...went against everything the US thought it needed in an aircraft...") applies to the US view of its P-39, and all of us here know that story.

p1ngu666
02-22-2005, 09:42 PM
yeah, officaldom is often stupid...
like the spec the raf wanted from a 4 engine heavy, including catapult launch for heavy load http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

short stirling could, in theory atleast be launched. would be somewhat bigger than a b17 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

also they tried to stop mossie. mossie dev's was hidden away, not just from the germans http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

GerritJ9
02-23-2005, 02:20 AM
Curtiss-Wright urged the KNIL to install at least two 0.50s instead of the 0.30s the KNIL originally specified, but unfortunately the KNIL declined and insisted on the four 0.30s. Some sources do indicate two of each- two in the nose and two in the wings, but this is incorrect.

GerritJ9
02-23-2005, 02:27 AM
The lack of protection should not be too much of a handicap compared to other aeroplanes. The KNIL ordered reflector gunsights, self-sealing fuel tanks, armour glass windscreens and pilot armour protection for the Brewster B339s they had ordered, but delays in deliveries meant that most of this equipment was not installed at Brewsters but had to be fitted by the KNIL workshops at Andir. It is no longer possible to discover exactly which Brewsters were equipped with what, but the Brewsters of 2-VlG-V which were sent to Singapore in December 1941 did not have the armour glass windscreens fitted and they were supplied by the RAF from parts cannibalized from written-off RAF Buffalos which did have the windscreens. The Brewsters did have armour plate behind the seat installed, so their level of pilot protection would have been the same as that of the CW21B.

KGr.HH-Sunburst
02-23-2005, 07:24 AM
as a true Dutchmen i cant wait to fly it for my country http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
besides that my country flew them, it sure does looks kick @ss to fly.
now we need some Fokker DXXI's which maybe become flayble? or atleast AI.
gives the dutch a pretty complete inventory
besides the fokker G1 that is http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Gibbage1
02-23-2005, 01:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GerritJ9:
Curtiss-Wright urged the KNIL to install at least two 0.50s instead of the 0.30s the KNIL originally specified, but unfortunately the KNIL declined and insisted on the four 0.30s. Some sources do indicate two of each- two in the nose and two in the wings, but this is incorrect. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know the internal structure for the Cw-21b. There are no wing guns, and no possible way to mount them. It was all in the nose with the berrals poking between cylinder heads.

From what Jeronimo said, they chose the 7.62's because they had a lot of the guns already. Logistics. But some Cw-21B's were sent to the AVG and those would most likley have the .50's in it since the P-40's they flew already had a mixed armorment.

Nubarus
02-23-2005, 01:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KGr.HH-Sunburst:
as a true Dutchmen i cant wait to fly it for my country <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hve been doing that since EAW with the 322 Squadron. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

DIRTY-MAC
02-23-2005, 02:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GerritJ9:I have tried to get information about its flight characteristics from former CW21B pilots through two veterans message boards here in the Netherlands, but no reply at all so far. However, the grandfather of one of my contacts flew Brewsters with 2-VlG-V over Singapore, Borneo and Java and perhaps it will be possible to obtain some concrete info through him. No doubt he will know if any of the CW21B pilots is still with us......... keep your fingers crossed. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It would be great if you could find anyone!
I wish you good luck,
I think the CW-21b trained alot with both Buffalos and P-75s in simulated war games against their own bombers.

GerritJ9
02-23-2005, 03:06 PM
Nooooooooo, FIRST we need a flyable Hawk 75A-7, an AI Glenn Martin B-10 and some proper maps of the NEI- Sumatra, Java, Borneo. Oh, and a proper B-339D of course. Maybe THEN we can think of a Fokker G1-A and G1-B.........
I must admit I am surprised that the CW21B had some pilot armour, I was under the impression that it had no protection at all- all sources I have read indicate that it had none. Oh well, one learns something new every day.

TAGERT.
02-23-2005, 03:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DIRTY-MAC:
Anyone? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I only wish I could see the face of the 109 pilots as I climb up thier "A" and pack them full of lead. Wouldnt it be cool if the 109 had a mirror, and you could see the pilots eyes!

ElAurens
02-23-2005, 09:08 PM
Anything Curtiss is just fine by me... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I wish there were time for someone to do some of the late biplane Hawks used by the Chinese.

DIRTY-MAC
02-24-2005, 04:09 AM
I must admit I am surprised that the CW21B had some pilot armour, I was under the impression that it had no protection at all- all sources I have read indicate that it had none. Oh well, one learns something new every day.[/QUOTE]

Well some of the so called "chinese" CW-21s had a bulletproof windscreen, infact the AVG compared
it with the bulletproof windscreens on some of their P-40s and found out that the CW-21s armour were thicker, I will try to find excatly what they said about it.

(dont forget that CW-21 and CW-21B is two different models)

regarding the CW-21B climbrate, I dont think much will be able to follow it in a climb as it were known to have an extreemly steep climb angle, I wouldnâ´t be surprised if nothing would be able to follow it in a spiral climb, not even a 109K!
and this is with the CW-21B, the CW-21 was even better in climb

It could even climb upside down in a 45 degrees angle

I will try to post some goodies on it as soon as I can

DIRTY-MAC
02-24-2005, 05:20 AM
The first kill of the CW-21:

1939

Pilot Fausel had been on standby with the CW-21 at Chungking.with the likelyhood of japanese bombing raids increasing daily, the Cw-21 as well as the P-75Q wich was being demonstrated at the same time- was kept fully armed and fuelled, the Curtiss pilots intending to be ready for a shot at the japanese,"just in case".
On 29 March, Roberty Fausel flew a patrole with a Chinese I-15 squadron,but no enemy aircraft were encountered.four days later, Chungking was attacked and,when the alarm sounded,Fausel and his colleagule Arch McEwen were in the middle of changing the crazed windscreen.They quickly secured it in place with a few screws and as they hear the first bombs explode,Fausel took off.Two minutes after lift-off he was leveled with a large formation of Japanese Fiat BR-20 bombers at 10,000 feet (3050m) and approached within firing range some 75 miles (121km) east of Chunking. On the third burst, the 0'50-in (12,7mm) guns jammed "on" until they ran out of ammonition, but the bomber started to smoke and was reported to have made a belly landing on chinese territory,the crew being captured.

DIRTY-MAC
02-24-2005, 05:36 AM
From AVG pilot Erik Schilling who has flown the CW-21:
Although the CW-21 didnâ´t have selfsealing fueltanks it did have a armour plate as well as a bullet proof windshield almost 2 inches thick

Chuck_Older
02-24-2005, 10:15 AM
Mr Shilling was a very articulate and knowledgable source from what I can determine, I will take his word on that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

DIRTY-MAC
02-24-2005, 04:24 PM
Erik really liked the CW-21
he said it handle like a dream and that it was the most impressive airplane he ever been in.
It was he who got the AVG interested in them,
sad that all three planes they got crashed
on route becuse of dirt in the petrol.

PBNA-Boosher
02-24-2005, 05:10 PM
The CW-21 was an excellent plane. It's only problem was its lack of armor. It is a Kick Butt plane, kinda like a US version of the Ki-43. It should be an aerobatic plane of worldly proportions, but don't expect it to be able to hit very hard.

darkhorizon11
02-24-2005, 07:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DIRTY-MAC:
The first kill of the CW-21:

1939

Pilot Fausel had been on standby with the CW-21 at Chungking.with the likelyhood of japanese bombing raids increasing daily, the Cw-21 as well as the P-75Q wich was being demonstrated at the same time- was kept fully armed and fuelled, the Curtiss pilots intending to be ready for a shot at the japanese,"just in case".
On 29 March, Roberty Fausel flew a patrole with a Chinese I-15 squadron,but no enemy aircraft were encountered.four days later, Chungking was attacked and,when the alarm sounded,Fausel and his colleagule Arch McEwen were in the middle of changing the crazed windscreen.They quickly secured it in place with a few screws and as they hear the first bombs explode,Fausel took off.Two minutes after lift-off he was leveled with a large formation of Japanese Fiat BR-20 bombers at 10,000 feet (3050m) and approached within firing range some 75 miles (121km) east of Chunking. On the third burst, the 0'50-in (12,7mm) guns jammed "on" until they ran out of ammonition, but the bomber started to smoke and was reported to have made a belly landing on chinese territory,the crew being captured. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting I wasn't aware the Japanese flew any Fiats or imported any aircraft for that matter are there any pics floating around of these???

Zyzbot
02-24-2005, 07:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darkhorizon11:

Interesting I wasn't aware the Japanese flew any Fiats or imported any aircraft for that matter are there any pics floating around of these??? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wonder if it was a mis-identification of a Nell?

ElAurens
02-24-2005, 10:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zyzbot:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darkhorizon11:

Interesting I wasn't aware the Japanese flew any Fiats or imported any aircraft for that matter are there any pics floating around of these??? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wonder if it was a mis-identification of a Nell? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Army Type I Medium Bomber (Fiat B.R.20) Allied code name RUTH.

The IJAAF purchased 80 Fiat B.R.20s in 1938 for use in China. A 1936 design, they were found to be unreliable and were not in service long. At the time Westerners in China called them the "Mikado". They were called type "I" for Italy by the IJAAF.

ElAurens
02-24-2005, 10:15 PM
Here is the best I could do on short notice...
http://www.blitzpigs.com/photos/Ruth.jpg

An IJAAF Type I Medium Bomber (RUTH) in China.

gombal40
02-25-2005, 01:03 AM
http://www.apostoloeditore.com/gallfoto1/BR-20.jpg

Chuck_Older
02-25-2005, 10:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DIRTY-MAC:
Erik really liked the CW-21
he said it handle like a dream and that it was the most impressive airplane he ever been in.
It was he who got the AVG interested in them,
sad that all three planes they got crashed
on route becuse of dirt in the petrol. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The factory in Burma that was supposed to build them was also destroyed in face of the Japanese advance

JG53Frankyboy
02-25-2005, 10:34 AM
A7He1 , Navy Type He Air Defence Fighter , allied codename "Jerry" ( http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif )

= Heinkel He112B-0 , they got 12 of them - no real combat use.

ore the
A8V1 , a Seversky two seater fighter, codename "****"

telsono
02-25-2005, 11:14 AM
The whole mixture of aircraft that the Chinese flew is staggering. We had the Curtiss Hawks mentioned, which should also include both the fixed and retractable geared versions of the H-75. The export version of the Boeing P-26 was used as well. This also included alot of aircraft that the USAAF didn't want like the P-43 Lancer. Russian voluteers with their fighter aircraft (I-15, I-153, I-16)and bombers. Interesting enough for the defense of shaghai there was a squadron of CR-32's (the fuel mixture that the Italians used was a limiting factor). Also, of interest was the aid from Germany, early He-111 bombers, Mark I panzers, as well as technical help. Some of the technical help include the training of pilots in advanced fighter combat. American born Chinese voluteer 'Art' Chin and I believe also 'Buffalo' Wong were sent to Germany to received this training.

Platypus_1.JaVA
02-27-2005, 02:53 PM
Getting accurate reports of Dutch fighter pilots who flew the CW-21 might be quite hard. Since all of the fighter pilots where a bit of 'forgotten' with the evacuation of the Dutch East Indies after its surrender. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Therefore, they where left there and have been put into Japanese prison camps.

3.JG51_BigBear
02-27-2005, 03:09 PM
It should be exciting to get the Daemon, and hopefully the claude, to put together some real early China campaigns. I'm Beta testing Chuck's flying tigers campaign right now, which is awesome by the way, and I hope some of the new planes inspire people to make more campaigns like it. Too bad we won't get the right maps.

DIRTY-MAC
03-01-2005, 04:45 PM
This is pretty interesting:
http://history1900s.about.com/library/prm/blletterswwii01_03.htm

<span class="ev_code_RED">Look at this 3D model</span>:

http://www.1000cp.org/***a***a/gallery/image/cw21b_14_11.jpg

http://www.1000cp.org/***a***a/gallery/image/cw21b_15_10.jpg

DIRTY-MAC
03-09-2005, 03:53 AM
Gibbage is it possible to get any pics of the different skins you made for the CW-21B?

Gibbage1
03-09-2005, 04:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DIRTY-MAC:
Gibbage is it possible to get any pics of the different skins you made for the CW-21B? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I remember, I will try and post some.

BlitzPig_Frat
03-09-2005, 04:21 PM
Being a big fan of the Ki-43, and the last thing many a lone F4F/P-40 pilot saw in the Z vs. W server, I look forward to the Curtis Wright for some allied entertainment on par with the Hayabusa. How bout you El'? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

ElAurens
03-09-2005, 07:41 PM
Agreed Frat. Lots of fun and a Curtiss to boot....


bliss.......


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

Dimensionaut_
03-15-2005, 04:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KGr.HH-Sunburst:
as a true Dutchmen i cant wait to fly it for my country http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
besides that my country flew them, it sure does looks kick @ss to fly.
now we need some Fokker DXXI's which maybe become flayble? or atleast AI.
gives the dutch a pretty complete inventory
besides the fokker G1 that is http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunately the Fokker D.XXI will be AI only for FB.
Maybe a second chance for BoB http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
And a G.1? Also allready in the works for the Battle of France add-on:

http://battle-of-france-add-on.france-simulation.com/update03.htm

NOTE: The color picture of the G.1 there is only showed as example what the G.1 looked like. It has nothing to do with the game model. Artwork by Wiek Luijken.

DIRTY-MAC
04-19-2005, 06:45 PM
and Bump

PBNA-Boosher
04-27-2005, 07:53 AM
Relatively light amounts of armor and lack of self sealing fuel tanks made it a less than good choice for the USAAF in WW2. They preferred planes that may be a bit more obsolete, but that could pack a giant punch AND return home with significant damage, if need be.

Gibbage1
04-27-2005, 04:23 PM
I keep forgetting to render a few pics of the Cw-21 and the skins. Sorry. I will try tonight.

Atomic_Marten
04-27-2005, 05:34 PM
Great.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Gibbage1
04-27-2005, 10:24 PM
http://www.gibbageart.com/files/cw21b34.jpg

http://www.gibbageart.com/files/cw21b35.jpg

http://www.gibbageart.com/files/cw21b36.jpg

http://www.gibbageart.com/files/cw21b37.jpg

GerritJ9
04-28-2005, 03:06 AM
Awesome work, Gibbage! Hope we can actually enjoy this one soon (in KNIL colours, of course http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif)!!!!!!!!!!!

DIRTY-MAC
05-02-2005, 06:16 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

WOW simply brilliant!
exellent work Gibbage http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Whats up with that blue camo! never seen it before? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
Were did you get the info regarding these Paintchemes?

Obi_Kwiet
05-02-2005, 07:22 PM
Gib, when are you going to put your page back up?

Badsight.
05-03-2005, 02:01 AM
Gibbage , i cant wait

that plane has fun written all over it

aipilotmarkone
05-03-2005, 08:28 PM
Gibbage1,
Looks great! Looking forward to flying the CW-21B over Java.

Gibbage1
05-04-2005, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
Gib, when are you going to put your page back up?

Ugh. I dont know. I plan on making a simple forum since that wont require a lot of work. The problem is that web pages take up a lot of time I currently dont have.

Gibbage1
05-04-2005, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by DIRTY-MAC:
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

WOW simply brilliant!
exellent work Gibbage http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Whats up with that blue camo! never seen it before? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
Were did you get the info regarding these Paintchemes?

The Dutch had some rather... "interesting" paintchemes. But we got those paint colors from many Dutch sources! I confirmed them many times.

DIRTY-MAC
05-05-2005, 05:48 PM
what other wacky paintchemes did they use?

aipilotmarkone
05-06-2005, 07:35 PM
DIRTY-MAC, your avatar is gone.

DIRTY-MAC
09-12-2005, 04:21 AM
Gibbage
any chance you could post some new pics of your Cw-21B model?
maybe with gears down?

tigertalon
09-12-2005, 04:42 AM
Wow, it lives!

woofiedog
09-13-2005, 02:24 AM
CW-21... Screen Shots

http://www.pacific-fighters.com/ss/CW-21_041.jpg

http://www.pacific-fighters.com/ss/CW-21_Cockpit_031.jpg

http://www.pacific-fighters.com/ss/CW-21_Cockpit_011.jpg

http://www.pacific-fighters.com/ss/CW-21_Cockpit_021.jpg

Gibbage1
09-13-2005, 03:08 AM
Wow! Were did you pull this up from? I like the way Jeronimo's cockpit turned out. Very nice and looks like the Cw-21B will have good visibility! Thanks for showing that. I have not seen the little Deamon since I handed it off to Saqson and Oleg. I think its my best work yet, and my crowning acheavment!

F19_Olli72
09-13-2005, 03:10 AM
The more i look at that sight, the more i think ill like this plane a lot if it makes it to addon.

#1 its a cr@pplane http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

#2 With that sight looks like high deflection shots would not only be possible, but easy (unlike the in Oscar)

#3 Its a Curtiss

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

ElAurens
09-13-2005, 05:19 AM
Originally posted by F19_Olli72:
#3 Its a Curtiss

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Like TAGERT says, Agree 100%.

This may get me back to the Allied camp in the Pacific.

DIRTY-MAC
09-18-2005, 06:32 PM
@ Gibbage
Is it possible to get some screenies? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Gibbage1
09-18-2005, 07:35 PM
Thats in Oleg's hands. I can only do renders, not in-game screenshots. I dont have the beta.

DIRTY-MAC
09-19-2005, 06:21 AM
some renders would be nice http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

maybe some ones with gears down?