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View Full Version : A confession of ignorance concerning "Fog of War"!



mortoma
12-27-2010, 03:16 PM
I have no idea what the heck "fog of war" refers to. I don't find it so surprising or perplexing that I don't know what it is at all. What I do find perplexing is why everyone else seems to know what it means! What is it and why does everyone in the forum know what it is except for me?

pupo162
12-27-2010, 03:20 PM
thanks mortoma. i was afraid to be called ignorant for asking http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


anyone cna enlight us? XD

blairgowrie
12-27-2010, 03:27 PM
The term "fog of war" refers to the uncertainty that descends over a battlefield
once fighting begins.

JG52Uther
12-27-2010, 03:32 PM
Yes,but what does it mean in il2?

Uufflakke
12-27-2010, 03:34 PM
Good question. I really don't know what the fog 'Fog of War' is supposed to be. Couldn't find it in the Readme.
Looks like everybody is occupied with bomb fuse and bomb delay at the moment. And if it is realistic or not or if it shouldn't be less realistic as it is just a game. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

TS_Sancho
12-27-2010, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by JG52Uther:
Yes,but what does it mean in il2?

The term Fog of war in IL2 would be explained as lack of situational awareness.

JG52Uther
12-27-2010, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by TS_Sancho:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG52Uther:
Yes,but what does it mean in il2?

The term Fog of war in IL2 would be explained as lack of situational awareness. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ah perfect for me then...

Zeus-cat
12-27-2010, 03:48 PM
Normally "fog of war" refers to lack of knowlege of the battledfeild, the enemy location and strength and even your own forces if a unbit gets to far from its headquarters. I used to play a game that if you pushed units to far to fast they would disappear off the map. They would still fight, but you couldn't command them. If you didn't find them they would go out of supply and often surrender.

In IL-2 it probably applies to the AI. Maybe they no longer have complete situational awareness all the time; especially if you get behind them. It is a bit ridiculous for the AI to always know where you are once you get within 5 kilometers of them. I didn't see anything in the readme on fog of war either.

Aviar
12-27-2010, 03:56 PM
FOW is explained at the beginning of the MDS User Guide:

----------------
Fog of War (FoW)

Fog of War is intermediate solution between no map icons and full map icons. FoW represent
the situational awareness of what your own units can see (visually or with radar) . This can be
seen as information relayed to player via radio and all spotted enemy unit icons are shown in
player's mini map. However only three type of units can act as FoW spotters and relay the
enemy position information to player. Ship's radars spot enemy planes, ground radar spots
enemy planes and recon aircraft spots enemy planes and ground units.

The FoW dialog contains general FoW parameters and also parameters related to ships an
recon planes. Ground radar FoW parameters are found under homebase options, since the
radar needs to be located inside homebase radius.


FoW dialog parameters:

- Fow in ADVANCED mode: if this option is enabled, ALL FoW spotters on the map will show
only those planes that are inside assigned range & height limits. Range parameters are set for
each home base object individually under home base Base FoW tab. If this is not ticked,
player's side will see units icons as long as it has at least one live radar.

- Ships are FoW spotters: makes ships spot enemy planes with their radars. Ships are divide
into two groups. "Big Ships" that have powerful, long range radars and "Small Ships" that have
less powerful, short range radars. If you want only big ships to act as FoW spotters, set ALL
small ship settings to 0. Or vice versa.

Note:
"Big Ships" with powerful, long range radar:
All CVs (aircraft carriers), all battleships and all cruisers.

"Small Ships" with less powerful, short range radar:
All destroyers.

- Recon planes are FoW spotters: this will enable selected recon planes to spot ground units.
Only selected recon planes are able to identify ground units. Assigning plane as a recon plane
is done with the RED/BLUE Recon Planes buttons.

-Scan MAX Range: determines the range in which scouts can identify other aircrafts.

-Scan delta height & Scan alpha: determines the range for which scouts can identify ground
objects. The formula behind this is: range = scout height * tan (alpha). So, the higher
the scouts are, the more area they cover.

WARNING: the more scout planes you assign, the slower your game might run!
------------------

In short, certain ships can be designated as having 'radar'. Any planes that fly inside of their radar range can then be displayed as icons on your in-flight map.

Designated Recon planes can spot aircraft as well as ground units. Again, these would be displayed as icons on your map.

Think of it as 'intelligence' being relayed to you via your in-flight map.

Aviar

Uufflakke
12-27-2010, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by Aviar:
FOW is explained at the beginning of the MDS User Guide

Aviar

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
Found it!
But didn't expect to be in the MDS Readme. So it is supposed to be just for online play?
Anyway, I will take a closer look at it another time.

Ba5tard5word
12-27-2010, 04:19 PM
Yeah is this FOW and spotter stuff supposed to be for online/MDS only? Seems like it would be a lot of fun in co-ops. I've always been aggravated by how there's no way to get relayed info from your control tower or other allied ships/planes etc in the area.

Bearcat99
12-27-2010, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
Yeah is this FOW and spotter stuff supposed to be for online/MDS only? Seems like it would be a lot of fun in co-ops. I've always been aggravated by how there's no way to get relayed info from your control tower or other allied ships/planes etc in the area.

Bear in mind that with the MDS the line between coops and online whatever... is more or less obliterated.. the only limitation is in the creativity of the mission builder. This will really be true once triggers are released.. and TD said they would be ... I jusdt hope it doesnt take as long as 4.10 did from 4.09...

Aviar
12-27-2010, 04:39 PM
I tried to get FOW to work in a coop mission but didn't have any luck.

Aviar

Ba5tard5word
12-27-2010, 04:51 PM
I've tried some Zuti MDS stuff but it really seems like a typical dogfight server to me. Yes it has a bunch of AI planes going around doing stuff, but that is the main difference, otherwise it's a lot of planes going back and forth randomly getting into fights. In a co-op you generally have a specific mission and it's set up to provide a certain scenario that I don't know if you could really create in an MDS.

Maybe I just haven't seen a really detailed MDS though.

PF_Coastie
12-27-2010, 06:18 PM
It can also apply to other things. One item would be the "S" key view screen while in a MDF server. You can eliminate the Planetypes among other things from that menu so the other side can not see the different types of AC in the air. This is of great importance to both sides so that they can not magicly see what is coming their way without certain intelligence like radar. This is just one example I could think of.

M_Gunz
12-27-2010, 06:47 PM
If you could avoid being spotted it would be a form of stealth. I would have thought that ground bases would also be spotters tied into the net, also ground recon units. Perhaps the CPU load is too much.

mortoma
12-27-2010, 07:12 PM
Hell, I don't even know what MDS is either. And still don't exactly know what the fog of war switch does in the difficulty settings. Not like it matters, the switch is locked out anyway!! Now another question begs to be answered. Why is the switch locked?

Maybe some of my ignorance stems from not be an online flyer and the fact that I don't frequent the IL2 websites more geared towards the online community. I can't even remember my Hyperlobby password for months at a time.

mortoma
12-27-2010, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by Uufflakke:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aviar:
FOW is explained at the beginning of the MDS User Guide

Aviar

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
Found it!
But didn't expect to be in the MDS Readme. So it is supposed to be just for online play?
Anyway, I will take a closer look at it another time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Where is the MDS readme? At some special website somewhere?

Aviar
12-27-2010, 08:07 PM
The MDS User Guide was made available when the patch was released, along with the patch readme. I suggest you go back where you downloaded the patch. Hopefully it will still be there.

**EDIT: Look here....4.10m Documentation:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=17765

The thing is, MDS/FoW is a part of the Full Mission Builder. As most IL-2 players do not build their own missions, it's not surprising that the average player would not be familiar with it's workings.

Aviar

crucislancer
12-27-2010, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by mortoma:
Hell, I don't even know what MDS is either. And still don't exactly know what the fog of war switch does in the difficulty settings. Not like it matters, the switch is locked out anyway!! Now another question begs to be answered. Why is the switch locked?


That is really strange. I just checked, and every difficulty option, including the FoW switch, is selectable in my install. I checked both single, static campaign, and QMB.

Aviar
12-27-2010, 09:53 PM
The FoW switch in the Difficulty settings (No Fog Of War Icons) only controls the actual in-game map icons associated with the FoW option settings. (For instance, an enemy plane detected by one of your ship's 'radar'.)

If the FoW feature(s) was not activated in the mission by the mission builder, the FoW switch will do nothing. So, this switch will not 'activate' any FoW settings.

However, if the FoW is activated in a particular mission and the player doesn't want it on, this switch will effectively turn it off by eliminating any icons associated with it.

Of course, on a server, only the host will have access to the Difficulty settings.

Aviar

Aviar
12-27-2010, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by mortoma:
Hell, I don't even know what MDS is either. And still don't exactly know what the fog of war switch does in the difficulty settings. Not like it matters, the switch is locked out anyway!! Now another question begs to be answered. Why is the switch locked?

If the 'No Map Icons' switch in the Difficulty settings is OFF, this will lock the 'No Fog Of War' switch in the ON position.

This makes sense. Since you are already displaying all icons (planes, artillery, etc.) on your in-game map, the Fog Of War icons are already displayed. It's redundant.

Aviar

Ba5tard5word
12-27-2010, 11:06 PM
So this just doesn't work at all in offline missions or co-ops? That is kind of annoying, it would be pretty cool if it did.

EJGrOst_Caspar
12-28-2010, 05:34 AM
FoW is a explicit part of the MDS (Moving Dogfight Server), so its not to expect to be in a different relation for now.

Some say, with MDS, coop's are obsolete, but that needn't to be true. Future will show.

M_Gunz
12-28-2010, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
So this just doesn't work at all in offline missions or co-ops? That is kind of annoying, it would be pretty cool if it did.

You can setup as a LAN server without being online and play on that to get/use offline tools and options. Always could.

FoolTrottel
12-28-2010, 07:53 AM
Originally posted by mortoma:
Hell, I don't even know what MDS is either. And still don't exactly know what the fog of war switch does in the difficulty settings. Not like it matters, the switch is locked out anyway!! Now another question begs to be answered. Why is the switch locked?

(...) Me thinks it depends on the position of other switches/one other switch, try and flip the ones above FOG...

Aviar
12-28-2010, 04:02 PM
FT...I assume you didn't read my last post...... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

There you go ignoring me again..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

Aviar

FoolTrottel
12-28-2010, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by Aviar:
FT...I assume you didn't read my last post...... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

There you go ignoring me again..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

Aviar <span class="ev_code_RED">Oops...</span> http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif