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View Full Version : AI enemies in offline games- how ACE is ACE?



drose01
01-05-2005, 02:34 PM
I've been playing alot of offline quick missions to work on dogfight and bomber intercept skills, and it's definitely helping.

The AI is interesting- it can do some cool things, can be lethal if it is on your 6, but then can go boneheaded and leave itself wide open for a kill shot, like it forgets that you are there.

Does anyone have any comment on the nature of the program, and it's particular strengths and weaknesses?

It seems to me that the Ace setting is not much better than the Average or Veteran- am I right?

Also, does the AI adjust strategy depending on the plane it is in, or the one that it is fighting?

Someone posted somewhere that you are ready to be competitive in online play when you can beat 4 AI aces in planes that are similar to yours- I'm working on it...

drose01
01-05-2005, 02:34 PM
I've been playing alot of offline quick missions to work on dogfight and bomber intercept skills, and it's definitely helping.

The AI is interesting- it can do some cool things, can be lethal if it is on your 6, but then can go boneheaded and leave itself wide open for a kill shot, like it forgets that you are there.

Does anyone have any comment on the nature of the program, and it's particular strengths and weaknesses?

It seems to me that the Ace setting is not much better than the Average or Veteran- am I right?

Also, does the AI adjust strategy depending on the plane it is in, or the one that it is fighting?

Someone posted somewhere that you are ready to be competitive in online play when you can beat 4 AI aces in planes that are similar to yours- I'm working on it...

PBNA-Boosher
01-05-2005, 02:39 PM
I suggest taking one of these two planes:

P-51
Fw-190A-8

Flying one of these planes, take on 4 Ace AI of the other one. That should clear you for the ETO, PTO, take an F2A Buffalo and try to down 4 Ace AI Zeros... Once you can do that, you've bested me! (I can barely down 2 Zeros in an F2A)

OH! I forgot. Give the 4 AI planes the advantage in the QMB. They love that!

Chuck_Older
01-05-2005, 02:39 PM
"Someone posted somewhere that you are ready to be competitive in online play when you can beat 4 AI aces in planes that are similar to yours- "

Seems to me the only thing that proves is that you beat 4 AI aces in a plane similar to yours.

Offline AI is limited, and their FM is simpler than yours.

Quite standard in any sim. Ace AI essentially does some things better or quicker, but essentially, the last time I saw this discussed, it was accuracy that was the biggest difference between the skill rankings

FatBoyHK
01-05-2005, 03:05 PM
AI Aces are masters of head-on shooting and split-second moves that dodge your fire just before a certain hit... and noobs in all other departments.

I personally don't recommend AI as a valid training before you go online... it actually show you the wrong way of air combat... basically because of the similified FM and DM they are using. But if you clearly know what you are doing, it may be a good way to practice your skill... I mean PRACTICE, not LEARN.

tjaika1910
01-05-2005, 03:08 PM
I havent played much offline lately and things may have changed, but:

AI ACE are best with typical TnB planes. They are best when they have advantage and superiorty in numbers. AI cheat in handling and with a rear warning, with ACE this waring makes them too nervous, VETERAN is probaply more dangerous because of this. ACE is also more accurate, head-on is not to recommend. Last time I tried, a bunch of ACE chaikas could beat almost anything in the game. Fun to watch ;-)

tjaika1910
01-05-2005, 03:20 PM
BTW: when you "learn" the AI, they are not too difficult to take down. Tried in FB me and a rookie wingman in Bf109 G6 against 4 ace La-7, which was named to be THE ├╝ber plane. No problem.

Online gaming is a completely different manner. You never know what you are up against, and I often lack the patience to play properly when I am on public servers.

When I play with my friends, full real, and on historically setups, my heart go beating wildly and I sweat and struggle. Problem here is that I never get to be fully aquianted to the plane. We rotate the map and play both sides, and one time it is the Spanish civil war, the next then it is the Winterwar and so on.

clint-ruin
01-05-2005, 03:53 PM
The AI is absolutely lethal to newbies at higher skill levels. What tends to make people think it's dumb is that they gradually start to learn its tricks at different skill levels and adjust their flying to take advantage of the AIs weaknesses. Not even consciously - just that you learn when you live and when you die and take that into account. Real pilots did not get to continue to learn after they were killed.

What I find provides a good challenge is to change the way you fly from being kill focussed to being mission focussed. As in, if you don't protect a bomber or transport, or allow a recon aircraft to escape, then you screwed the mission up big time. How many confirmed you get isn't really all that important, even Galland couldn't atrite the enemy down to the point where they gave up and went home, nor Bader nor Kozedub. What makes pilots useful to their army is their ability to achieve operational goals, everything else is secondary to that.

I find that fighting a mission where it's say 30 vs 30, where there is a whole range of skill levels represented, is much harder than fighting 1 vs 4 where you know exactly how skilled your opponents are and how they'll react. Another thing that can add flavour to the AI is to go and build some FMB missions and assign each pilot of a 4 member flight a different skill level. A lot of the predictability goes out the window when you set that up - rookies covering aces covering veterans makes them all fly, shoot and evade differently once combat starts. Though they'll try and stick to the same basic fighting style, their performance of that style varies a great deal. Setting up friendly flights to cover each other with the 'set' waypoint, and using odd squad sizes [1s or 3s] also makes things interesting.

If you don't have Uberdemons UQMG yet, get it, it makes setting up these quick battles [with many more than 16 aircraft a side, fully populated maps, skins, etc] a doddle.

Vacillator
01-05-2005, 03:56 PM
FWIW I think the AI aces can be tough in certain circumstances (particularly if they out-number you), but not in others. For example, they are often far too quick to give up and try to run if you're turning near the ground. They're generally not so hot in the vertical either. Of course this is all good news for me...

robban75
01-05-2005, 04:06 PM
AI set on ACE. Sure, they seem ace enough to shoot you in the eye. Left or right eye, whichever one they choose. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

SeaFireLIV
01-05-2005, 05:25 PM
I think Clint-Ruin has it pretty well spelt out regarding Humans versus AI.

I hear many moans about AI, but I believe a lot of this is due to `one-shot` players who only ever fly QMB. Sure flying this way you learn every aspect of each level of the enemy AI...

But fly a Campaign with extra aircraft and see how well you do with 20 or so 109Fs or G2s against your lot. Even in your best plane you`ll actually find yourself struggling to survive. Getting on an AI`s six isn`t so easy when his best m8s coming up behind you and when you avoid that 2 more dive in at you from above!

I`ve had many Campaign missions where winning or losing hinges on which side loses 2 aircraft first. This means hoping your own wingmen do their job as well as yourself. If you`re lucky it`ll end in 1 or 2 jerry planes running away.

In this conext, you really appreciate how realistic the whole thing feels and how well the AI has been programmed in regards to multiple dogfights.

It`s a LOT better than it used to be by far and I always feel that people simply expect too much from AI.

Agh! Forgot to answer the original question:

Ace AI is much better than Rookie of course, and is more aware and faster in avoidance, but remember (and this is the nice thing about it) - it doesn`t suffer any UNREALISTIC ADVANTAGES - A shot where it kills the engine, cripples the wing, kills the pilot will still take him down. He doesn`t suffer any unfair bonus`, so you can feasibly take down an ACE with a lucky shot and take ages hitting a rookie if you are lucky/unlucky.

The AI DOEs act differently depending on aircraft, although this also depends on its skill level. For instance, in my slow I16, I`ll notice that an experienced AI 109 pilot will NOT turn with me, first he`ll fly ahead (out of my range), then turn. Sometimes he will climb high where my I16 can`t go, but he won`t turn fight.

Fighting AI zeros on higher levels and they will always try to outturn you.