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View Full Version : So you think the Spitfire's acceleration is overmodelled?



Viper2005_
01-26-2007, 02:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HoLdGR99ik

So do Lotus. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Xiolablu3
01-26-2007, 02:40 PM
Lmao at the Spitfire pilot.

He looks like a throwback from WW1 biplanes.

'Tally Ho chaps, Jerries ahead!'

BOA_Allmenroder
01-26-2007, 02:56 PM
Reminds me of the old Triumph Spitfire car commerical:

"Not only a good car, but a piece of history."

BTW, if you were rooting for the car, you must burn your copy of IL2 immediately.

F0_Dark_P
01-26-2007, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Lmao at the Spitfire pilot.

He looks like a throwback from WW1 biplanes.

'Tally Ho chaps, Jerries ahead!'

ROFL! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif ....so true

Xiolablu3
01-26-2007, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by F0_Dark_P:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Lmao at the Spitfire pilot.

He looks like a throwback from WW1 biplanes.

'Tally Ho chaps, Jerries ahead!'

ROFL! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif ....so true </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He could also be a actor from a German 70's Porn video! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

ElAurens
01-26-2007, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:

He could also be a actor from a German 70's Porn video!


And how would you know this?

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Xiolablu3
01-26-2007, 05:16 PM
Lmao, I have seen the odd 'Art' movie from time to time!

I used to own a few 'Art Pamphlets' too. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

otpisani
01-26-2007, 05:46 PM
Julie is cute, in case no-one noticed... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

tomtheyak
01-26-2007, 09:17 PM
LoL! That Spitfire pilot is a chap named Charlie Brown (waiting for the Peanuts gags). Had the privilege of having him tutor me in a Stearman, must have been 9 years ago odd when I was in the RAF cadets. Thoroughly decent fellow, kind of quiet but ultimately proffesional - didnt bat an eyelid when, after asking me to make a turn through 90 degrees heading to the left, I misheard and thought he meant 90 degrees angle of bank! Must have put the wind up him but he didnt say a word. Was VERY specific about his instructions on the next manoeuver though LOL! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

He also is qualified on the Hawker Nimrod Naval Biplane Fighter and the Bf109, just out of interest.

leitmotiv
01-27-2007, 12:28 AM
There is some very interesting information about the Spitfire V's acceleration in Alfred Price's THE SPITFIRE STORY. He cites a 1942-era document advising Spit V squadrons to fly at full throttle in the vicinity of German fighters because of the slow acceleration of the Spit V! Needless-to-say, this was not modeled in IL-2.

leitmotiv
01-27-2007, 01:41 AM
Easy there Fearless Fosdick, take it up with the Air Ministry and Rolls Royce. According to the document the Spit V's slow acceleration put it at a disadvantage against the Fw 190. Thus, the Air Ministry advised Spits on Circuses to maintain full throttle over France where they could be bounced. The Spit V's alleged slow acceleration was not modeled in this game. As for maintaining full throttle, Hub Zemke ordered the 56th FG to fight at full throttle without variation (not all did). Brave online flying aces need not follow suit.

HellToupee
01-27-2007, 01:59 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Easy there Fearless Fosdick, take it up with the Air Ministry and Rolls Royce. According to the document the Spit V's slow acceleration put it at a disadvantage against the Fw 190. Thus, the Air Ministry advised Spits on Circuses to maintain full throttle over France where they could be bounced. The Spit V's alleged slow acceleration was not modeled in this game. As for maintaining full throttle, Hub Zemke ordered the 56th FG to fight at full throttle without variation (not all did). Brave online flying aces need not follow suit.

how slow do you just want it to accelerate, a shallow dive would cure any slowness in acceleration.

They didnt advise fly at full throttle they advise fly at fast cruise, fuel effient cruise is very slow, flying fast allowed the spitfires a head start in avoiding combat if bounced.

How slow should it accelerate? 20 minutes to reach 300kmh?

leitmotiv
01-27-2007, 02:13 AM
My error HellToupee. Here is the exact quote:

"The above trials have shown that the Spitfire VB must cruise at high speed [my emphasis] when in an area where enemy fighters can be expected." (page 144)

I'll have to dig for his info about slow acceleration.

leitmotiv
01-27-2007, 02:40 AM
Here is the citation about acceleration from a report about combat tests between a Spitfire IX (not V, sorry) and a captured Fw 190 at Duxford in July 1942:

"The Spitfire IX could not be caught when 'bounced' if it was cruising at high speed and saw the FW[sic] 190 when well out of range. When the Spitfire IX was cruising at low speed its inferiority in acceleration [my emphasis] gave the FW 190 a reasonable chance of catching it up and the same applied if the position is reversed and the FW 190 was 'bounced' by the Spitfire IX, except that overtaking took a little longer." (page 169)

HellToupee
01-27-2007, 03:39 AM
same applied if the position is reversed


my emphasis

Also note merlin 61 spit in that report not as much power as merlin 66 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

leitmotiv
01-27-2007, 04:00 AM
Yes, but the Spit IX was a faster airplane when fully wound up. It's only disadvantage was being slower in the wind up.

HellToupee
01-27-2007, 04:12 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Yes, but the Spit IX was a faster airplane when fully wound up. It's only disadvantage was being slower in the wind up.


"The initial acceleration of the FW 190 is better than that of the Spitfire IX under all conditions of flight, except in level flight at altitudes where the Spitfire has a speed advantage."

Pinker15
01-27-2007, 05:03 AM
Ah beauty Polish Spitfire http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

p1ngu666
01-27-2007, 06:03 AM
takeoff and slow speed acceloration is different from cruiseish to top speed acceloration http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

just look at f1 cars, mindblowing too 160-180, then crawling acceloration http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Viper2005_
01-27-2007, 07:56 AM
For the record it would appear that the aircraft in the video clip is the BBMF Mk.V, which is about as authentic a Spitfire as you're likely to find - it certainly still has its gunsight, and may have other items of military kit still in situe as well since it is still on the military register...

WWMaxGunz
01-28-2007, 02:14 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
According to the document the Spit V's slow acceleration put it at a disadvantage against the Fw 190.

It would be good to know the start and end speeds of the acceleration comparison.
With speed the Spit has less excess to get accel out of while the FW has more excess.
Perhaps the section with the test description instead of a generalized conclusion alone
would be better?

There is also what prop on the FW vs modelled but who thinks that makes any difference?

Richardsen
01-28-2007, 05:04 PM
Hmm... I wonder why the used that Spit. She is a stock aircraft and ofcourse heavier than some of the other Spits.

BBMF's Spitfire Vb AB910 or XIX PM631. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
Those rocks compared to Historic Aircraft Collection Spitfire Vb BM597

WWMaxGunz
01-28-2007, 08:07 PM
Some would say that the data has been 'cherry-picked' for the arguement.

And there are many that pick out on the ripest data to present. Often they place it up on a
website where others can come along, get revelated and join the crusade. That's why we get
the same questions and assertions since ever there have been flight sim discussion boards.

It's certainly nothing new, that's for sure.

BillyTheKid_22
01-28-2007, 08:25 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Cool!!!