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ElAurens
06-16-2007, 10:36 PM
..flying for the most part.

After several weeks of not flying I enter Zeke vs. Wildcats Saturday night. they are using the Kyushu map to simulate IJN attacks on Darwin. I take the G4M1 and commence bombing operations. Everything done right, high altitude, no opposition, direct hits on key ground targets. I make the longish flight home unmolested.

I see the field ahead of me and start my decent. I'm on final approach when an A6M3 that is taking off opens up on me. I jump on chat and tell him he is shooting a friendly. (and one that is clearly marked as such). For my trouble he makes a second pass beating up my controls somewhat. I manage t get the thing on the ground, and as I shut down the engines, BOOM! I explode and get dinked for a friendly kill.

Half an hour of flying and working hard to complete the mission wasted.

Back to GTR2 I guess.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Freelancer-1
06-16-2007, 10:57 PM
I would think that's a rare event on that server, ElAurens.

Don't let one bad apple stop you from enjoying the game http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Cheers,

VW-IceFire
06-16-2007, 11:03 PM
On the other hand you flew the mission successfully and presumably enjoyed it up until that point. Take your retribution out by having this person removed from the server...permanently.

Flying_Mex
06-17-2007, 12:13 AM
I am a regular on that server and I can tell you that those ocations do not happen very often. They are usually taken care of swiftly by the admin (if one is online, at least one is usually on at the times I fly).

The question you gotta ask yourself thou, while it must have been very annoying and perhaps made you very mad, what other online game does not have its share of idiots who try to screw it up for the rest?

As cliche as it sounds...if you quit...it only means that they won...don't give them the satisfaction. Then again, if this one accident (probably it is not just the only time it has happened or the only thing that pisses you off) makes you quit...makes you not enjoy the game...well then sir I say good day to you and I hope you find another game that you can enjoy...after all...that is what games are for..enjoyment.

Old_Canuck
06-17-2007, 12:26 AM
Bad enough to have the enemy catching you at home base -- that would really tick me off too having a "friendly" spoil the mission. Starting last week, Blitzpig_El, I've seen chat messages on Zekes about "too many noob Zeros" and that was the blue side talking. Time for some disciplinary measures alright. As you know, the admin.'s on this server are more active than most so please don't leave for good. It wouldn't be any fun if the immature players are allowed to take over the server.

Pirschjaeger
06-17-2007, 02:34 AM
You wanted immersion and you got it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Let me tell you what really happened. During the war many soldiers on both sides were given meth and airmen were no exception.

The Japanese gave a lot of meth to their kamikazi pilots. It just so happens you were attacked by a kamikazi pilot (Suji Yakakimo) who was just leaving on his last mission.

Suji was a little man, even by Japanese standards. Before his fateful last flight, he was showing more signs of anxiety than most kamikazi pilots. For this reason Suji's flight leader decided to double the dose of meth and gave Suji Kumisaka's daily ration. Incidentally, Kumisaka was a prewar Sumo champion before he was drafted as an airfield towtruck.

If we have to judge others we should do it on intent. Suji didn't know what he was doing while he was flying on Kumisaka's dose of meth.

Suji's fate was much worse than yours. Flying on meth, with a full tank of fuel, he made it to Kentucky, US. Only after he safely landed did he realized what had happened. His shame was so great that he decided to stay in the US, change his name to hide his identity, and open a fast food restaurant serving chicken. Suji became known as Col. Sanders.

Suji lived out the rest of his days in the US and even today, years after his death, few people know his true identity. Poor Suji died knowing his name would always be synonymous with chicken. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Korolov1986
06-17-2007, 03:48 AM
Surely you remember what Ace Online Dogfighter servers are like, El. He who gets the most points has the longest male private parts. And attacking ground targets doesn't count. You're a lamer if you attack ground targets in a Ace Online Dogfighter server.

Remember: only n00bs fly bombers and attack planes. Real men take Spit XVIVIIIXs and La-70000s. And they also land after they shoot down something, disengaging from the fight while somebody is being gang banged by the whole enemy air force. Get the points or get lost.

WWSensei
06-17-2007, 04:33 AM
Not to pile on to that particular server because it is a generally well run server, but I quit flying on servers without icons. Not because I particularly like icons but because too few know how to properly ID aircraft.

I'd guess I've flown about 20-30 sorties on that particular server and was shot down about half of those sorties. To date, I've never been shot down by an actual opponent. 3 or 4 times by AAA (no problem there) and the rest by supposed "team mates" who couldn't tell the difference between the two sides.

I don't think these were team killers trying to spoil a fight, just really bad at ID'ing aircraft. Either way it's annoying, aggravating and makes the flying no fun at all. Maybe I just picked the wrong times and all the rookies were flying but my experience has been that "full real" servers has the problem of most fliers not knowing how to fly them.

leitmotiv
06-17-2007, 05:21 AM
!!!!!!!!

slipBall
06-17-2007, 07:27 AM
This is another example of why we need a full real server, that requires that everyone use teamspeak. Not that I am a chatty kind of guy, but this example would have halted with a few choice words http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

cawimmer430
06-17-2007, 07:38 AM
Be glad you can land the G4M1! I always have problems landing this bird because I am so used to "LHD bombers"!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

DKoor
06-17-2007, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by slipBall:
This is another example of why we need a full real server, that requires that everyone use teamspeak. Not that I am a chatty kind of guy, but this example would have halted with a few choice words http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif I agree.

But I also think that some moronic actions such is the one described could not be avoided by any kind of setup other than - to let only honorable people fly there.

I'm in for the idea of insta perma ban for:

-kill stealing - retreating E/A emmiting black smoke and E/A in worse condition that clearly doesn't participate in combat actions and is clearly retreating
-intentional team killing
-dead 6 shoulder shooting (WTF are they doing that anyway, they should watch your six from high alt instead)
-swearing, childish behavior

Those are the most common and most annoying things. I have experienced them on all servers you just can't believe it when it happens.
And I stopped asking "Why?" long time ago.

Some people are just idiots and that explains things very well for me.

So.... I understand Aurens PoV very well... it's very, very.... no, extremely annoying!
After all these years spent with this sim one must take the same kind of "treatment" all over again.

And believe me...... if just one serious server makes perma ban as their penalty for such actions, that would I believe, eradicate it almost completely.

slipBall
06-17-2007, 08:10 AM
I think that the key element of teamspeat requirerment, would be that your fellow team members are always within ear shot. Knowing me I would be silent most of the time, but always have a clear mental picture of the status. Bad language, bad attitude = KICK

VMF-214_HaVoK
06-17-2007, 08:15 AM
Have you brought this up in WoP forums? Actually teamkilling and other disrespectful behavior has been a hot topic as of late. There has been a large increase of new pilots to the sim with the arrival of IL2 46. Getting a 10/10 in reviews would be one of the reasons. I give these new guys credit for joining one of the most difficult servers on HL but they are ruining some peoples fun.

ZvW is a good helpful server but some of these people dont even know how to take off, and these guys on a carrier is a real headache. I just wish people would take time to learn the game and some WW2 history once in awhile.

S!

Manu-6S
06-17-2007, 08:17 AM
This is why I would like a "level-carrier" system in SoW... like the one in America's Army.

No noobs in serious servers.

Crash_Moses
06-17-2007, 08:18 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
!!!!!!!!

STOP! You're scaring leitmotiv...



But I think WWSensei had it right. You were a victim of poor aircraft identification skills...

Another reason to fly the SBD...I mean, how can you misidentify THAT?

FA_Retro-Burn
06-17-2007, 08:34 AM
On the Winds of War server, Ikkyo would have taken care of the situation right away. There's many servers, so don't despair.

T_O_A_D
06-17-2007, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by ElAurens:


I see the field ahead of me and start my decent. I'm on final approach when an A6M3 that is taking off opens up on me.

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW"> Ok this first shot could be a noob mistake, a weak defence of him for sure.Was there AAA going off, any Airrade sirens? El probalby had gear down, how many times have you seen an attacker with gear down on Runway Vector?</span>


For my trouble he makes a second pass beating up my controls somewhat.

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">This is clearly a ******, Noob or not, obvoisly by now the guy haas seen the strugling aircraft landing, and not fireing back, let alone possibly no AAA going off.</span>


I manage to get the thing on the ground, and as I shut down the engines, BOOM! I explode and get dinked for a friendly kill.

Half an hour of flying and working hard to complete the mission wasted.

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">I dissagree, you have shown your skills to the fullest of a Vitual Pilot. I seldom do it, but in this situation, knowing just how mad you got, I'd of tossed the stats out the window and went hunting his friendlyness down, and took him out, with a warning, and why.</span>

VMF-214_HaVoK
06-17-2007, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by Korolov1986:
Surely you remember what Ace Online Dogfighter servers are like, El. He who gets the most points has the longest male private parts. And attacking ground targets doesn't count. You're a lamer if you attack ground targets in a Ace Online Dogfighter server.

Remember: only n00bs fly bombers and attack planes. Real men take Spit XVIVIIIXs and La-70000s. And they also land after they shoot down something, disengaging from the fight while somebody is being gang banged by the whole enemy air force. Get the points or get lost.

True for most servers be sure, but really not the case in ZvW or Spits vs 109s or Winds of War. Objectives are almost always carried out by a decent percentage of the pilots. The stat page is a good indicator of this.

S!

Stew278
06-17-2007, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by slipBall:
This is another example of why we need a full real server, that requires that everyone use teamspeak. Not that I am a chatty kind of guy, but this example would have halted with a few choice words http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

Not so sure about that. If this was some jerk just trying to get his jollies by shooting everything in sight I doubt yelling at him would have helped. In fact, people like that probably get a thrill knowing their p*ssing other people off.

Of course with TS you could have told your friends who this ******bag was and then had them blow em out of the sky.

trumper
06-17-2007, 09:21 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif
I flew online with my squad doing bombing missions last night and same thing happened there.Friendly [or not] FW190 shooting down 110's.
Not sure if it was the same guy but this **** was called ------ SHALL I NAME AND SHAME???,but his name seems to sum it up really. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Poker_4H
06-17-2007, 09:59 AM
El ... I'm surprised you have not posted this on the WoP forum ???
We admins would obviously like to know about such instances.
You'll be glad to know that I don't see a friendly kill in the stats credited to you. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

We have had an influx of lesser experienced players on Zekes vs Wildcats ... the result of a successful server I guess.... and we do what we can to both help and explain to these players how to act/play.
Your patience would be appreciated.
Let's face it .. we are not perfect, nor is anyone.
Not only that, but we, as well as everyone else, occasionally have people who teamkill on purpose .. again, it happens to everyone (who doesn't have Ikkyo on 24/7 ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif)
If there is a next time, please contact one of the admins before you leave to post here, and we will endeavor to take care of it.

Perhaps you'd care to join us for "Wednesday Night Bomber Night" @ 10pm Central, every Wednesday.
We alternate flying sides each week - this next week will be red bomber missions.
I'd certainly like to see you there.

S!
4H_Poker

ElAurens
06-17-2007, 10:49 AM
Thank you guys for the replys, no, I won't stop flying in total. I still love the sim too much for that. And I know we were all n00bs once and heaven knows I've made my share of mistakes.

I guess I do get too wrapped up in it, as my BlitzPig mates will attest to.

It was such a beautiful mission profile though...

[Arnold voice] I'll be back. [/Arnold voice]

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

striker-85
06-17-2007, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by WWSensei:
I'd guess I've flown about 20-30 sorties on that particular server and was shot down about half of those sorties. To date, I've never been shot down by an actual opponent.

Wow, sounds like you must have hit a bad patch there, or maybe the map with Dutch markings, there are probably more misidentifications on that map than all of the other maps combined.

I have been on ZvW almost exclusively for about a year now. While FF does happen occasionally it is not a huge problem. When it does happen in most cases it is a new player that doesn't understand how to play and they quickly get help from other teammates. The ones just out to spoil the fun usually leave pretty quickly or get kicked, but this doesn't occur that often. Most of the time it is great fun for all.

ZvW has a stats page so you can see the number of friendly kills, it is not that great. And most of the friendly kills listed are carrier spawns.

You should check it out again, a lot of regulars fly during the evenings (US time) and we are on Teamspeak which makes a big difference.

Ken_Det
06-17-2007, 12:19 PM
I feel your pain EIAurens http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
I too was on that server last night, and was shot down by my own side http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif
I was in a P400 garding our ships, and made a pass by 2 SBD's comeing back from a sorty.
Seeing they were frendly I went on with my patrol, and got hit from behind by red tracers from a F3F.
I turnd some what side ways to show the fool I was a U. S. plane.
He gave me another burst, and mest up my engine enuff to where I had to bail.
At least he did not shoot me after I bailed out.
Some thing that seemed to happend a lot last night by the by blue players.
Shooting me after I bailed that is http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif
As for you explodeing on the ground after you landed.
You probably parked where the planes spawn.
I find it best to park off the tarmack some where.

stalkervision
06-17-2007, 12:38 PM
These incidents would infuriate me to no end. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif I had this same garbage when I played Battlefield 1942 and it totally pissed me off. One could respawn there pretty quicky though and get right back in the fight. It still took the world out of the enjoyment of the game. When I am in a fighter plane and my own side guns me down knowing full well what they are doing then it isn't for me.

I will stick to BOBWOV with it's excellent AI pilots both enemy and friendly that work with you (well at least the friendy ones do.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) and not agains't you.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Team killing is baby and I don't need the aggravation whatsoever.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

crazyivan1970
06-17-2007, 12:40 PM
rare occurrence for Z v W, but i guess that happens. Don`t be discouraged EL. Drop by on Friday for some COOP action, will ya http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ElAurens
06-17-2007, 12:46 PM
Sorry for not being there this week Ivan, I was racing with the Pigs.

stalkervision
06-17-2007, 12:48 PM
Just a silly question. What are the initals of this original "****** bag that shall remain nameless" ??

seems like he is running up quite a score...of friendly planes that is! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Red_lightning1
06-17-2007, 01:04 PM
Seen it a lot the past few days on ZvW

Guy is flying under the handle ISuk**** (* = short for richard) and ISuck**** (*= another name for a male bird)

Airmail109
06-17-2007, 01:25 PM
In Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2, some guy team killed from point blank.....I spent the entire session hunting him down with an assortment of amusing weapons.

I got him well over 50 times with weapons ranging from pistols to RPGs, he was screaming "b****" over the team comms near the end

I doubt he'll TK someone again

gdfo
06-17-2007, 03:02 PM
Happened to me more than once there. Some people don't care who they shoot at. Did they ban the player?

stalkervision
06-17-2007, 03:16 PM
I use to get Tk's a lot in battlefied 1942 demo "secret weapons"

I like to play sniper and would hide up in the hills waiting for a target. Many many times another sniper would come up and join me. I would let him alone because we were on the same side and invariably he would sneek back a bit and kill me with a knife to be an a--ss. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

After a while when I would set up and another team player sniper would join me I would be constantly watching his actions to see "what he was up to.." http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

took the enjoyment right out of the game.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Krt_Bong
06-17-2007, 04:11 PM
If this guy has an obscene name as was posted he should be kicked anyway, we're an adult oriented server and that kind of stuff just shows very little maturity if he shows up again he will be kicked and/or banned.

RSS-Martin
06-17-2007, 04:26 PM
Hmm thought that guy "Isuk..." was dealt with a long time ago?? Remember him on a carrier mission, he would shoot any plane that spawned in front of him on the carrier.
Otherwise fortunately team kills are rather rare I find. Or maybe I am lucky? As I mainly fly bomber.
But donĀ“t agree with TS as a must. Hate listing to chatterboxes and "want-to-be-commanders-in chiefs"
Otherwise I enjoy flying on ZvW even though there is some mud flinging sometimes between red and blue. But will not let that be spoiled as they have nice maps.

DKoor
06-17-2007, 04:38 PM
Nothing that a perma IP/callsign ban cannot cure.

But hey... didn't I already mentioned that on page #1?

BTW I don't buy the noob story, all right. In 99% of such TK cases.

You may be a noob but if you are ****** or just another John Doe idiot who is there to amuse himself with his friends pain, then. BanStick. Hard.

I fail to see the joy of shooting the ****** down after he did the damage.

He already spoiled the fun and messing/chasing (with) him further leads ONLY into more frustrations.

leitmotiv
06-17-2007, 06:49 PM
I'd wager there is something to what Sensei wrote, just from reading the forum, because, since 46, there are a heck of a lot of people getting into this item who do not know a B-17 from a 747, and you can't teach air-to-air identification in an evening or even in a couple weeks.

wstreaker
06-17-2007, 07:28 PM
ElAurens -

I was the reason you blew up on the runway last night. I witnessed the zero attacking you as I was on a crosswind leg behind you. After he shot at you he came after me and shot at and clipped me in the rudder with his plane. I had no control as well as no engine (I'd been a glider from 4km over our carrier fleet trying to make it home). I tried as best I could to turn, but without rudder control and too low to use ailerons effectivly I ended up colliding with you.

As a regular on Zeke's -vs- Wildcats and one of the Admins I offer an apology. We have had a lot of noobs on lately that has made flying challenging to say the least. The pilot that caused all this (Call Sign Neil) left immediatly after the incident when I was kicking him from the server.

From the Warbirds of Prey server we are sorry for the aggreviation(?) I know as I was killed in the incedent as well with over a 30min flight. We are trying to educate the noobs as well as keep the uncaring pilots from the server which takes a lot of effort.


Sincerely,

WildWillie

ElAurens
06-17-2007, 07:28 PM
Things went better this afternoon. (Sunday)

Was on comms with one other chap, sadly I cannot remember who, I'm terrible with names. We were in Ki61s and took out enough "ship" targets to win the mission.

That's how it's supposed to work.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

ElAurens
06-17-2007, 08:29 PM
So that's what happened.

No apology necessary. If I had known you were in such a state I would have went around and let you come in first, my bad.

I saw a lot of the "training" going on in the chat line. It's a fine line between helping a new player, which is good, and having a frutrating night, isn't it?

In any case I now know exactly what happened, so don't worry about it.

Carry on.

KrasniyYastreb
06-17-2007, 08:53 PM
I really like the ZvsW server. Keep up the good work guys.

Wish more people would use TS though. Then maybe the fighter aces would hear us bomber pilots b*tching about the lack of escorts.

jensenpark
06-17-2007, 09:18 PM
funny, I'm on a bit (with many fellow DD's and Hellhounds and other regulars on the Blue side) and always on TS...

Rarely do I hear about a TK...once in a while someone will shout out about a friendly shooting at them a bit - until they are recognized - but only TK I see is when following a bomb run too close...

polak5
06-17-2007, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by Flying_Mex:


The question you gotta ask yourself thou, while it must have been very annoying and perhaps made you very mad, what other online game does not have its share of idiots who try to screw it up for the rest?


thats how i look at it.
Nice sig btw http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif !chiva 4 life!

Feathered_IV
06-17-2007, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by KrasniyYastreb:
I really like the ZvsW server. Keep up the good work guys.

Wish more people would use TS though..

Actually I quite like the idea of the IJN/IJAAF team having poor TS and comms co-ordination. More accurate historically. I certainly encourage the allied side to use it to it's fullest though. It is all the more satisfying to make a kill against coordinated opponents and get away with it than it is against a bunch of isolated lone wolfs.

Krt_Bong
06-17-2007, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by Red_lightning1:
Seen it a lot the past few days on ZvW

Guy is flying under the handle ISuk**** (* = short for richard) and ISuck**** (*= another name for a male bird) Sorry but I find no such name in the stats of Zekes perhaps you were speaking figuratively?

DKoor
06-17-2007, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by Krt_Bong:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Red_lightning1:
Seen it a lot the past few days on ZvW

Guy is flying under the handle ISuk**** (* = short for richard) and ISuck**** (*= another name for a male bird) Sorry but I find no such name in the stats of Zekes perhaps you were speaking figuratively? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Start searching with " ISuckYour... " you get the good idea what should be the rest of that ... nickname http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Feathered_IV
06-18-2007, 04:55 AM
Curious what Freud would have said about that...

Bearcat99
06-18-2007, 05:45 AM
I dont frequent the DF servers so bear with me... now... You are in a Betty... He's in a Zeke... You would think that he would see the markings... even as a noob.. if you are close enough to get hits then you should be able to see the markings on the plane... Is this server one of those fly what you want servers.. (The worse IMO...) or does red have to fly red planes and blue blue planes? If thats the case then this guy is obviously just a jerk but I wouldn't let jerks stop me from flying online.

WOLFMondo
06-18-2007, 05:48 AM
Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
I would think that's a rare event on that server, ElAurens.


Its not that rare. Every time I go onto that server there is some idiot shooting freindly planes taking off, attacking freindly planes and shoulder shooting...its a minority but it only takes one person to spoil the fun for an entire side.


Originally posted by WWSensei:
I don't think these were team killers trying to spoil a fight, just really bad at ID'ing aircraft.


I don't see it that way. What allied plane looks like a betty? If it was allied, why didn't it shoot back at the Tk'er? Its easy to mistake a F6F at a distance for a Ki84 but a betty really is something else.

Henkie327
06-18-2007, 05:53 AM
Killshooter will stop this behaviour 100%

Would not be bad if IL2 had killshooter as an option for the server or host to enable/disable killshooter.

With killshooter feature on, not the friendly who is fired on gets the damage, but the one who fires, so that means 100% garanteed no more teamkilling. The shooter at friendlies pays the price for shooting at friendlies.

Also good against shouldershooting.

stalkervision
06-18-2007, 05:54 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Krt_Bong:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Red_lightning1:
Seen it a lot the past few days on ZvW

Guy is flying under the handle ISuk**** (* = short for richard) and ISuck**** (*= another name for a male bird) Sorry but I find no such name in the stats of Zekes perhaps you were speaking figuratively? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Start searching with " ISuckYour... " you get the good idea what should be the rest of that ... nickname http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

These morons always seem to have names like this don't they.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

stalkervision
06-18-2007, 05:57 AM
shooting friendlies in the landing pattern or just taking off would make me livid! One works too hard completing missions to have this garbage go on..

trumper
06-18-2007, 07:31 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gifThe T/Killer we had was called mycockisready,mmmmm along the same lines i guess. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-18-2007, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
I'm in for the idea of insta perma ban for:

-kill stealing - retreating E/A emmiting black smoke and E/A in worse condition that clearly doesn't participate in combat actions and is clearly retreating
-intentional team killing
-dead 6 shoulder shooting (WTF are they doing that anyway, they should watch your six from high alt instead)
-swearing, childish behavior

Those are the most common and most annoying things. I have experienced them on all servers you just can't believe it when it happens.
And I stopped asking "Why?" long time ago.

Some people are just idiots and that explains things very well for me.

So.... I understand Aurens PoV very well... it's very, very.... no, extremely annoying!
After all these years spent with this sim one must take the same kind of "treatment" all over again.

And believe me...... if just one serious server makes perma ban as their penalty for such actions, that would I believe, eradicate it almost completely.



Maybe...but it's hard to police intent. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

rnzoli
06-18-2007, 07:44 AM
why don't the server autokicks players with offensive names like that? SC has profanity filter on chat messages (at least public channel), same function should work against callsigns, shouldn't it?

Philipscdrw
06-18-2007, 07:47 AM
Originally posted by Henkie327:
Killshooter will stop this behaviour 100%

Would not be bad if IL2 had killshooter as an option for the server or host to enable/disable killshooter.

With killshooter feature on, not the friendly who is fired on gets the damage, but the one who fires, so that means 100% garanteed no more teamkilling. The shooter at friendlies pays the price for shooting at friendlies.

Also good against shouldershooting.
That might work well with games with a health-point system but I think it wouldn't work with Il-2's complex damage modelling. A T/Ker sets fire to ElAurean's Engine #2, but he's in a Zero, so what damage would he take?

Best solution would be a 1-minute (or variable, set by server) refly delay for t/kers, I think.

Last two times I flew on SpitsVs109s ended sadly. First I called a Hurricane with Luftwaffe markings an "idiot" and got autokicked - that was quite stupid of me. Then, on a day when we'd been haemorrhaging players and were down to 2 or 3 per side, I was strafed while landing by a guy who said he was "looking for bagel". Perhaps he was looking for the other Red pilot who had a name similar to Bagel but that doesn't explain why he would strafe a Hurricane/Tomahawk that's landing on his own airfield...

Henkie327
06-18-2007, 07:58 AM
His engine would be killed.

this killshooter works good in other online sims.

It's not my idea, but already tried in other online sims. And there it's excellent against teamkillers. You shoot at friendly? then you receive the damage.

Could be good as a host option to turn on or off .

rnzoli
06-18-2007, 09:12 AM
Best solution would be a 1-minute (or variable, set by server) refly delay for t/kers, I think.
Some DF servers (UKDs?) kick and autoban immediately when you downed a friendly aircraft and received negative points. Same for bombing own troops.

As for receiving the damage caused, I have my doubts, because it would go against the general damage modelling in IL-2.

Example: I fly 4-engined bomber and I shoot the single engine of a friendly escort fighter. Which of my engine should be set on fire, out of the 4?

I think kicking and banning upon negative points should be sufficient (perhaps IP banning too).

DKoor
06-18-2007, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
I'm in for the idea of insta perma ban for:

-kill stealing - retreating E/A emmiting black smoke and E/A in worse condition that clearly doesn't participate in combat actions and is clearly retreating
-intentional team killing
-dead 6 shoulder shooting (WTF are they doing that anyway, they should watch your six from high alt instead)
-swearing, childish behavior

Those are the most common and most annoying things. I have experienced them on all servers you just can't believe it when it happens.
And I stopped asking "Why?" long time ago.

Some people are just idiots and that explains things very well for me.

So.... I understand Aurens PoV very well... it's very, very.... no, extremely annoying!
After all these years spent with this sim one must take the same kind of "treatment" all over again.

And believe me...... if just one serious server makes perma ban as their penalty for such actions, that would I believe, eradicate it almost completely.



Maybe...but it's hard to police intent. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That's right, I agree. You cannot expect someone to constantly watch/police the server.
But that is the void contra argument from the very start.
All that is needed is a possibility to, when faced with evidences, a person gets perma banned.
That will provide 110% satisfaction to those who were idiots victims.

------------------------

And besides... that person in question has committed several violations first starting with his username.

You show up with username like that - perma IP ban.

Who needs flaming idiots on the server?

Logical end of his sortie is a TK.... I could expect no other course in his actions with username like that.

Truth to be told, I never saw any server perma baning for some violations.... sure they will ban you but they all hesitate...... and in the end who suffers?

A honest John D0e who came to server to have fun who can do.... nothing about it but just suck it up again and again and then all over again.

And then receive witty comments like : "heck, you should shot him down no matter if you are on same team etc."

Yes that could work.

For a 5 year olds.

Sillius_Sodus
06-18-2007, 09:41 AM
I don't want to hijack the thread but I'm curious about the instances of friendly fire due to mistaken identity. I only fly offline, and I usually wait until I'm within 250m before I open fire on a fighter. At that range it's easy to id who and what I'm shooting at, even without icons. Of course if both sides are flying similar types it would be trickier, but on the more realistic/historical servers it you don't usually have that problem.

For the record, I think what happened to ELAurens sucks the big one. Blowing up Betty's if a lot of fun, but not when they're on your side, but then again, depending on who's flying it... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Good hunting,
Sillius_Sodus

striker-85
06-18-2007, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by Sillius_Sodus:
I don't want to hijack the thread but I'm curious about the instances of friendly fire due to mistaken identity.

Well I can only speak to my personal experience on ZvW about this but I would say it does not happen that often. It does happen but genuine offenders usually get help and do better. Visual ques like tracer fire color become very important. As you approach a fur ball you usually look for the enemy fire coming from the dots to determine who to line up on. As you get closer plane color and marking are a great help. Finally aircraft ID once you are close enough.

I would say at least once per mission you hear of someone (usually a new person to the server) that took shots at a friendly but that generally gets sorted out quickly.

IMO most TKs on that server are intentional, not including spawn kills which probably account for the vast majority of friendly kills, and other type of non intentional kills like clearing 6 and collisions. Sometimes during the start of a new mission it can be like the 4th of July seeing all of the planes trying to get off of the carrier decks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Clearing someone's 6 can also be a frustrating source of friendly kills. You shoot an enemy off a friends 6, then later the friend lands and you get a friendly kill. In these cases you have hit the friendly with a couple of bullets during the clearing and the game rewards you with friendly kill http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

ElAurens
06-18-2007, 10:56 AM
Bans for acruing negative points are not a good idea. Sometimes it happens to the best, most honorable players, and usually during ground pounding operations. On well made maps the situation on the ground can be just like real life, chaotic at best, with the front lines blurred. Honest mistakes do happen.

Shooting at two Bettys, both clearly marked with bright red Hinomaru is not an accident.

Each case must be judged individually, a script that merely bans on acquiring negative points is a bad idea.

Warhammer_II
06-18-2007, 03:05 PM
I'd like to apologize for any issues I might have caused. Being a newbie myself, the only trouble I try to make is my enemy pulling the bits of my aircraft out of their grill after they shoot me up.

I think the only thing I have been guily of frequently is shouldershooting, but that is mostly from diving in to help out, getting a good solution on an enemy and then someone else climbing up on him in front of me.

Other than that, I think the only issue I had was on TS when I had voice activated on, and my kids refused to go to sleep. I was pretty embarrased when I realized that happened. Especially since my 2 and 5 year old refused to go to sleep because I was playing. That was exacerbated by my 5 year old asking me why I was blowing up so much, and why I wasn't shooting my friends (since they're easier to blow up and all).

DKoor
06-18-2007, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by Warhammer_II:
I'd like to apologize for any issues I might have caused. Being a newbie myself, the only trouble I try to make is my enemy pulling the bits of my aircraft out of their grill after they shoot me up.

I think the only thing I have been guily of frequently is shouldershooting, but that is mostly from diving in to help out, getting a good solution on an enemy and then someone else climbing up on him in front of me.

Other than that, I think the only issue I had was on TS when I had voice activated on, and my kids refused to go to sleep. I was pretty embarrased when I realized that happened. Especially since my 2 and 5 year old refused to go to sleep because I was playing. That was exacerbated by my 5 year old asking me why I was blowing up so much, and why I wasn't shooting my friends (since they're easier to blow up and all). http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Crash_Moses
06-18-2007, 04:24 PM
Back when I had broadband (sigh), and ZvW was new, my wingman rammed me one night. His dog jumped in his lap...lol. Poor guy apologized profusely.

rnzoli
06-18-2007, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
Each case must be judged individually, a script that merely bans on acquiring negative points is a bad idea.
Judging individually is time consuming and requires the time of a server admin. So you might be shot down not once, but several times by the same idiot.

Kicking and banning with negative points is quick, and if you made an honest mistake, you ask for permission to come back and an admin will let you back without problem.

You chose what you want, but you can't have both. You have to decide what is better: seriously suffering from a T/K-er for hours, or let the people making mistakes suffer just a little bit while they ask for re-entry to the server.

In case of the co-op servers, actually the first negative in 30 min will a warning only. However, if the tendency continues and more negative score appears, auto-ban comes for next 30 minutes. Sure, you can argue that one person can make honest mistakes in a row, but then this persion should be banned because his poor skills anyway http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Feathered_IV
06-18-2007, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
I dont frequent the DF servers so bear with me... now... You are in a Betty... He's in a Zeke... You would think that he would see the markings... even as a noob.. if you are close enough to get hits then you should be able to see the markings on the plane... Is this server one of those fly what you want servers.. (The worse IMO...) or does red have to fly red planes and blue blue planes?

BC, check it out sometime. All the negative press does not take much away from it. It is still the most immersive mission based df out there http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif.

crazyivan1970
06-18-2007, 06:59 PM
Banning people is extreme measure. I understand some do it on purpose and totally disrupt game for everyone else... oh yes, it`s a ban.

But, it could be a total n00b that cant even reply in ingame chat, cause he doesnt know how. So... very delicate matter.

rnzoli
06-19-2007, 03:16 AM
So... very delicate matter.
Oh no, it's not. It is a straight choice. Let's not try to seem more complicated than it really is.

Server operator: do you want to attract newbies, or do you want to attract experienced players?

Player: do you want to play with fewer, but more experienced people, or you want to play with more people, including the occasional dummies as well?

Sure, there are always exceptions, but those can be handled by the server forums, contacts for admints, PMs on HL etc.

I find it interesting that the same players gets overly irritated by TK and KS accidents, but when it comes to tougher measures, suddenly they wants to hug the newbees, spread peace and love. (It's not just ElAurens, we have these threads once every month.)

Guys, skip the drama please, just make up your mind and bear the consequences! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I have personally made that choice and I never fly in a DF server these days, only fly co-op missions. It turned out, that the 5-10 minutes waiting for a co-op mission start is the best guarantee that troublemakers stay away. They generally don't have the patience to wait and co-ops are much safer from wrong ID-ing also.

If you fly DF servers, you make a choice also, which includes getting T/K-d after 30 minutes of a bombing run. That's an inherent risk you have to keep in mind. You can take it as a substitute for the non-existent aircraft reliability problems, or you can play the same drama scenes over and over again, crying in river on the shoulders of the community.

Sorry if this seems offensive, but at some point it is worth considering to stop going in circles http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WOLFMondo
06-19-2007, 03:25 AM
Originally posted by rnzoli:


I think kicking and banning upon negative points should be sufficient (perhaps IP banning too).

Its good in practice but I've hit a freindly trying to save it, one being chase by another in a flat run and one of my rounds has hit the freindly, they've crashed in the field and I got negative points anyway. - points doesn't really work. Active admins does. WC is good for that, theres allot of active admins on TS.

Matz0r
06-19-2007, 04:30 AM
Last night on ZvW (http://www.pfy.nu/tmp/lamers_on_zvw.ntrk)


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

rnzoli
06-19-2007, 04:51 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Its good in practice but I've hit a freindly trying to save it, one being chase by another in a flat run and one of my rounds has hit the freindly, they've crashed in the field and I got negative points anyway. - points doesn't really work. Active admins does. WC is good for that, theres allot of active admins on TS.
I agree that experienced admins are the best solution. Although with external offs, they have to resort to reports from other pilots seeing the incident, but still, policing the servers are good for the players.

But kicking and banning upon points is not that useless either. I have mentioned the logic that we apply on co-op servers: it's not just the negative points alone, but also the number of times it happens within a short 30 min interval. In fact, the first incidence is treated is even milder than on DF servers - you as a pilot will NOT get your negative score in your persistent stats, because 90% of such incidents area totally innocent,like collisions in formation flight, or trying to save friendlies as you described, or sometimes bad ID-ing as well. Of course, you get an automatic warning message to be more careful, but no other consequences will happen.

However, if the same thing happens for the second time and your scores decrement again within 30 mins, you are kicked out for another 30 minutes without asking any question.

One friendly fire incident in 30 minutes is probably an accident. But two is NOT, let's face it. Programming this logic into the DF servers isn't rocket science either.

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-19-2007, 06:05 AM
Originally posted by F16_Matz_:
Last night on ZvW (http://www.pfy.nu/tmp/lamers_on_zvw.ntrk)


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Dangit...I wish I had IL2:46 installed on my work laptop. I can't watch ntrk's until I get home. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

DKoor
06-19-2007, 06:49 AM
Originally posted by rnzoli:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">So... very delicate matter.
Oh no, it's not. It is a straight choice. Let's not try to seem more complicated than it really is.

Server operator: do you want to attract newbies, or do you want to attract experienced players?

Player: do you want to play with fewer, but more experienced people, or you want to play with more people, including the occasional dummies as well?

Sure, there are always exceptions, but those can be handled by the server forums, contacts for admints, PMs on HL etc.

I find it interesting that the same players gets overly irritated by TK and KS accidents, but when it comes to tougher measures, suddenly they wants to hug the newbees, spread peace and love. (It's not just ElAurens, we have these threads once every month.)

Guys, skip the drama please, just make up your mind and bear the consequences! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I have personally made that choice and I never fly in a DF server these days, only fly co-op missions. It turned out, that the 5-10 minutes waiting for a co-op mission start is the best guarantee that troublemakers stay away. They generally don't have the patience to wait and co-ops are much safer from wrong ID-ing also.

If you fly DF servers, you make a choice also, which includes getting T/K-d after 30 minutes of a bombing run. That's an inherent risk you have to keep in mind. You can take it as a substitute for the non-existent aircraft reliability problems, or you can play the same drama scenes over and over again, crying in river on the shoulders of the community.

Sorry if this seems offensive, but at some point it is worth considering to stop going in circles http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>+100