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View Full Version : 109 Landing Speed and brake innacuracy



The_Gog
01-04-2006, 08:13 PM
'The Augsburg Eagle-Mf109 history' states that approach speed for a 109E was 90 mph (145kmh), with flaps full down and gear down (naturally) and that 'the centre of gravity was unusually far behind the main wheels, and the brakes could be applied fully immediately after touch-down without fear of lifting the tail'

This information was gathered from a captured 109E-3 Werk No 1304, that was thoroughly analised by the British.

In game (in a 109E-4), an approach speed of 90mph is possible but you best have your wits about you, but full application of brakes the moment touchdown is made and throttle cut to zero results in an immediate nose over.
I also did tests simulating a landing at 90mph by taxiing to that speed with flaps full down and then cutting throttle and hitting the brakes, the result was exactly the same.

Question, are the brakes in the game too strong? Are all wheel brakes in all aircraft exactly the same in performance and all tail draggers will nose over far sooner than they would have in RL?

VW-IceFire
01-04-2006, 09:00 PM
Brakes are fairly generic in the grand scheme of things in this game. I also think that there hasn't been as much attention paid to ground handling as what goes on in the air.

As with all modern flight sims, they do fairly well in the flight model department till you reach the edges of the envelope...then things start to diverge.

Waldo.Pepper
01-04-2006, 10:21 PM
the brakes could be applied fully immediately after touch-down without fear of lifting the tail'

I read that too, on the Finnish Virtual Pilots website and in the wings of the Luftwaffe book by Brown (and I think a couple other places too!)

Anyway I tried it, and can do it to problem...I shall make a track and post it on the 'morrow if you like. (Full back elevator, full brakes no prob!)

mortoma
01-04-2006, 10:41 PM
I will have to try it but that approach speed seems a little low for the 109 in the sim as it's modeled now. My touch down speed is often that low but that's different ( to me ) than approach speed. In a Cessna my approach speed is about 70kts indicated, but after the flare and a full stall or near full stall landing down my speed is about 45 to 50kts when the mains make contact. Maybe they were talking touch down speed and not true approach speed as in the speed that's maintained all he way down on final. I will try it in a 109 in game to see if I can truly appraoch at that low of a speed and still have any up elevator authority for flare and touch down left over. I will check back in this thread later..............

jimDG
01-05-2006, 04:01 AM
Originally posted by The_Gog:
'The Augsburg Eagle-Mf109 history' states that approach speed for a 109E was 90 mph (145kmh), with flaps full down and gear down (naturally) and that 'the centre of gravity was unusually far behind the main wheels, and the brakes could be applied fully immediately after touch-down without fear of lifting the tail'

This information was gathered from a captured 109E-3 Werk No 1304, that was thoroughly analised by the British.

In game (in a 109E-4), an approach speed of 90mph is possible but you best have your wits about you, but full application of brakes the moment touchdown is made and throttle cut to zero results in an immediate nose over.
I also did tests simulating a landing at 90mph by taxiing to that speed with flaps full down and then cutting throttle and hitting the brakes, the result was exactly the same.

Question, are the brakes in the game too strong? Are all wheel brakes in all aircraft exactly the same in performance and all tail draggers will nose over far sooner than they would have in RL?

raise flaps at touchdown, apply full back stick to keep the tail down, step on the brakes, and if the speed is indeed 145km/h the nose should remain up (to about 50km/h where the tail goes up for some reason)

slkcrab
01-05-2006, 08:35 AM
Heeheehee. Try landing the '109 in BoBII WoV. It's darn near impossible!