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FlatSpinMan
09-07-2009, 08:05 AM
The Mosquito (taken from Wikipedia)

"Another notable daylight mission was carried out in the morning of 30 January 1943, against a Nazi rally in Berlin, giving the lie to the speaker's (Reichmarschall Hermann Göring's) claim that such a mission was impossible. The radio station was put out of action for an hour. Not content with this, Mosquitos from 139 Squadron also went to Berlin in the afternoon of the same day and tried to interrupt an important speech by Joseph Goebbels, the Third Reich's Propaganda Minister. One Mosquito was lost on the afternoon raid."

Xiolablu3
09-07-2009, 08:10 AM
Yeah, Mosquitos flew across Berlin and bombed the radio station.

Causing air raid sirens to wail, the speech to be delayed and making a mockery of Goerings claims. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I think it was Goerings birthday wasnt it?

Brave men.

AndyJWest
09-07-2009, 08:18 AM
I seem to remember reading that Goebbels' speech WAS delayed, though I'd have to check. At that period, the Mossie was probably fast enough that raids like this were relatively safe from enemy fighters, but it certainly took courage. I don't know whether this was a low-level 'under the radar' attack, but they must have been pretty hard work, too, having to spot obstacles while staying really low: not easy for the navigator either.

FlatSpinMan
09-07-2009, 08:23 AM
Just insane what guys did in the war (or any war, for that matter). why is it that if Hollywood actually makes a movie about WWII they miss this cool stuff, throw some dollybird in (and Shermans dressed as Tigers)and totally ruin it?

Anyway, anyone got a link to some good Mosquito missions? This reading has got me interested.

Xiolablu3
09-07-2009, 08:38 AM
Sorry, It was not Goering birthday, it was the 10 year anniversary of the Nazi Party.



Albert Speer :-

"I witnessed a dramatic scene between Goering and General Galland, who commanded his fighter planes. Galland had reported to Hitler that day that several American fighter planes accompanying the bomber squadrons had been shot down over Aachen. He had added the warning that we were in grave peril if American fighters, thanks to improved fuel capacity, should soon be able to provide escort protection to the fleets of bombers on flights even deeper into Germany. Hitler had just relayed these points to Goering.

Goering was embarking for Rominten Heath on his special train when Galland came along to bid him good-by.
"What's the idea of telling the Fuehrer that American fighters have penetrated into the territory of the Reich?" Goering snapped at him.

"Heir Reichsmarschall," Galland replied with imperturbable calm, "they will soon be flying even deeper."

Goering spoke even more vehemently: 'That's nonsense, Galland, what gives you such fantasies? That's pure bluff!"

Galland shook his head. "Those are the facts. Herr Reichmarschall!" As he spoke he deliberately remained in
a casual posture, his cap somewhat askew, a long cigar clamped between his teeth. "American fighters have been shot down over Aachen. There is no doubt about it!"

Goering obstinately held his ground: "That is simply not true, Galland. It's impossible."

Galland reacted with a touch of mockery: "You might go and check it yourself, sir; the downed planes are there at Aachen."

Goering tried to smooth matters over: "Come now. Galland, let me tell you something. I'm an experienced fighter pilot myself. I know what is possible. But I know what isn't, too. Admit you made a mistake."

Galland only shook his head, until Goering finally declared: "What must have happened is that they were shot down much farther to the west. I mean, if they were very high when they were shot down they could have glided
quite a distance farther before they crashed."

Not a muscle moved in Galland's face. "Glided to the east, sir? If my plane were shot up..."

"Now then, Herr Galland," Goering fulminated, trying to put an end to the debate, "I officially assert that the
American fighter planes did not reach Aachen."

The General ventured a last statement: "But, sir, they were therel"

At this point Goering's self-control gave way. "I herewith give you an official order that they weren't there! Do
you understand? The American fighters were not there! Get that! I intend to report that to the Fuehrer."

Goering simply let General Galland stand there. But as he stalked off he turned once more and called out
threateningly: "You have my official order!"

With an unforgettable smile the General replied: "Orders are orders, sir!"

AndyJWest
09-07-2009, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by FlatSpinMan:
...anyone got a link to some good Mosquito missions? This reading has got me interested.

I don't know about offline missions, but I think the most intense online mission I've flown so far was during one of the Ubi Saturday coops when we all flew Mossies down a Norwegian fjord to bomb a factory - really hair-raising stuff. I think I got my bombs somewhere near the target, and got away with nothing but a few paint chips, which was probably more luck than anything else. There is something about the IL-2 Mossie that always seems to draw me into the game much more deeply than the single-engined fighters tend to: it just somehow seems more real.

Xiolablu3
09-07-2009, 08:44 AM
Joseph Goebbels, diary (13th March, 1945)

This evening's Mosquito raid was particularly disastrous for me because our Ministry was hit. The whole lovely building on the Wilhelmstrasse was totally destroyed by a bomb. The throne-room, the Blue Gallery and my newly rebuilt theatre hall are nothing but a heap of ruins. I drove straight to the Ministry to see the devastation for myself. One's heart aches to see so unique a product of the architect's art, such as this building was, totally flattened in a second. What trouble we have taken to reconstruct the theatre hall, the throne-room and the Blue Gallery in the old style! With what care have we chosen every fresco on the walls and every piece of furniture! And now it has all been given over to destruction. In addition fire has now broken out in the ruins, bringing with it an even greater risk since 500 bazooka missiles are stored underneath the burning wreckage. I do my utmost to get the fire brigade to the scene as quickly and in as great strength as possible, so as at least to prevent the bazooka missiles exploding.

As I do all this I am overcome with sadness. It is 12 years to the day - 13 March - since I entered this Ministry as Minister. It is the worst conceivable omen for the next twelve years.

The Führer telephones me immediately after the raid on the Ministry. He too is very sad that it has now hit me. So far we have been lucky even during the heaviest raids on Berlin. Now, however, we have lost not only a possession but an anxiety. In future I need no longer tremble for the Ministry.

All those present at the fire voiced only scorn and hatred for Goring. All were asking repeatedly why the Führer does not at last do something definite about him and the Luftwaffe.

The Führer than asks me over for a short visit. During the interview I have with him he is very impressed by my account of things. I give him a description of the devastation which is being wrought and tell him particularly of the increasing fury of the Mosquito raids which take place every evening. I cannot prevent myself voicing sharp criticism of Goring and the Luftwaffe. But it is always the same story when one talks to the Fuhrer on this subject. He explains the reasons for the decay of the Luftwaffe, but he cannot make up his mind to draw the consequences therefrom. He tells me that after the recent interviews he had with him Goring was a broken man. But what is the good of that! I can have no sympathy with him. If he did lose his nerve somewhat after his recent clash with the Führer, that is but a small punishment for the frightful misery he has brought and is still bringing on the German people.

I beg the Führer yet again to take action at last, since things cannot go on like this. We ought not, after all, to send our people to their doom because we do not possess the strength of decision to root out the cause of our misfortune. The Führer tells me that new fighters and bombers are now under construction, of which he has certain hopes. But we have heard it so often before that we can no longer bring ourselves to place much hope in such statements. In any case it
is now plenty late - not to say too late - to anticipate any decisive effect from such measures.

Xiolablu3
09-07-2009, 09:12 AM
This is good :-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...fBKrdErY&feature=fvw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NMfBKrdErY&feature=fvw)

AndyJWest
09-07-2009, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
This is good :-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...fBKrdErY&feature=fvw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NMfBKrdErY&feature=fvw)
Yes, Brilliant. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Only thing is, if Hollywood ever remakes 'Dambusters' it will probably look like this...

Scolar
09-07-2009, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by AndyJWest:

Only thing is, if Hollywood ever remakes 'Dambusters' it will probably look like this...

Agreed, Hollywood loves taking heroic acts from other nations and making them american :P

AndyJWest
09-07-2009, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by Scolar:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AndyJWest:

Only thing is, if Hollywood ever remakes 'Dambusters' it will probably look like this...

Agreed, Hollywood loves taking heroic acts from other nations and making them american :P </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Careful, it's 'Labor day', they'l be at home watching us - anti-American comments are best sneaked in while they are all in bed. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

jarink
09-07-2009, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by Scolar:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AndyJWest:

Only thing is, if Hollywood ever remakes 'Dambusters' it will probably look like this...

Agreed, Hollywood loves taking heroic acts from other nations and making them american :P </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right now I'm reading "The Battle For Germany (http://www.amazon.com/BATTLE-GERMANY-H-Essame/dp/B000WAKYOU)" by H. Essame, where he describes in detail how Germany was defeated by battalion- and regiment-size actions of Monty's 21st Army Group in Holland. You guys are guilty of it, too!
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Rjel
09-07-2009, 11:03 AM
Back in the old EAW days I flew online with a group of guys using the Mosquito. Even though it flew like a pig it was still great fun and served as a reason to study what WWII crews did with the plane. Plenty of material for any number of films, wherever they might be made.

Glad to see the Hollywood bashing is still going on. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I've been away from here for quite a while but not so long that most of these threads still seem familiar. I need to watch more films made outside the U.S. They all sound like classics... like all those "great" spaghetti westerns.

AndyJWest
09-07-2009, 11:44 AM
flew like a pig
I beg to differ, It flies better than a B-17, which carried a similar bomb load. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Actually, I think the FB Mossie as modelled in IL-2 may be a touch on the heavy side, but I've got no evidence to back this up - the important thing is to keep your speed up, and don't even think about turning fights. On the other hand, don't overspeed either, it is prone to losing bits quite rapidly in a dive.

Anyway, it's different. Looks pretty too.

Gammelpreusse
09-07-2009, 12:31 PM
You have to give those Mosquito guys their fair share. These guys had balls. Many of their raids are prime adventure and daring tales material.

Kettenhunde
09-07-2009, 01:35 PM
Right now I'm reading "The Battle For Germany" by H. Essame, where he describes in detail how Germany was defeated by battalion- and regiment-size actions of Monty's 21st Army Group in Holland. You guys are guilty of it, too!

MMMM Got real quiet after that comment....

Scolar
09-07-2009, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by Kettenhunde:

MMMM Got real quiet after that comment....


Not really, there were three other posts between yours and the one you quoted.

b2spirita
09-07-2009, 02:17 PM
A fantastic aircraft, night fighter, target marker, precision raids, recon, transport http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niels_Bohr) .


As part of 8 Group, Mosquitos took part in many bombing operations as pathfinders, marking targets with flares for the following massed formations of heavy bombers. Bomber Command Mosquitos flew over 28,000 operations, dropping 35,000 tons (31,751 tonnes) of bombs, and losing just 193 aircraft in the process (a loss rate of 0.7%, compared to a 2.2% loss rate for the four-engined heavies). It has been calculated that a Mosquito could be loaded with a 4,000 lb (1,800 kg) "cookie" bomb, fly to Germany, drop the bomb, return, bomb up and refuel, fly back, drop a second bomb, and return, and still land before a Stirling (the slowest of Bomber Command's four-engined bombers) could strike Germany with a full bomb load.


Retaining the forward firing armament Mosquito FB Mk VIs of No. 143 Squadron RAF were engaged by 30 Focke-Wulf Fw 190s from Jagdgeschwader 5 on 15 January 1945. In the ensuing battle the Mosquitos lost five aircraft but shot down five Fw 190s in return as well as sinking an armed trawler and two merchant ships.[54]

and of course this upset the big man
In 1940 I could at least fly as far as Glasgow in most of my aircraft, but not now! It makes me furious when I see the Mosquito. I turn green and yellow with envy.

The British, who can afford aluminium better than we can, knock together a beautiful wooden aircraft that every piano factory over there is building, and they give it a speed which they have now increased yet again. What do you make of that?

AndyJWest
09-07-2009, 02:22 PM
Gentlemen: it has been proven beyond reasonable doubt that one man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/index.html?curid=13823852) won WWII all by himself. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Can we get back on topic? Mossies & their crew: Brave, yes, skilled yes, did they win the war on their own? No, of course not. They did apparently wind up the Nazi high command quite effectively though, if they managed to convince Goebbels they were losing the war by March 1945!

Edit ---
I was typing this when b2spirita posted his comments: back on topic already: I take it that the 'big man' is Goering, where is the quote from?

X32Wright
09-07-2009, 02:52 PM
The Mossies have always been used as 'target markers' during bomb raids this is because they have the ability to use 'GEE' and 'Oboe' (British Radio Navigation System). In most cases there would be two to four mossies ahead of the bomber stream.

They actually drop 'colored flares' to mark the bomb target. After marking the target some of them would continue to either bomb other targets or engage the Luftwaffe.

AndyJWest
09-07-2009, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by X32Wright:
The Mossies have always been used as 'target markers' during bomb raids this is because they have the ability to use 'GEE' and 'Oboe' (British Radio Navigation System). In most cases there would be two to four mossies ahead of the bomber stream.

They actually drop 'colored flares' to mark the bomb target. After marking the target some of them would continue to either bomb other targets or engage the Luftwaffe.
I'd have thought it unlikely that pathfinder Mossies would 'engage the Luftwaffe' deliberately, but I may well be wrong: can you give us a reference for this?

b2spirita
09-07-2009, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by AndyJWest:

Edit ---
I was typing this when b2spirita posted his comments: back on topic already: I take it that the 'big man' is Goering, where is the quote from?

Yeah it was him. I got the quote from wiki, which provides the following reference.

http://www.luftkrieg-ederbergland.de/goering.htm

RPMcMurphy
09-07-2009, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
This is good :-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...fBKrdErY&feature=fvw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NMfBKrdErY&feature=fvw)

That WAS good. Made me smile the whole time.
The Star Wars deathstar attack sequence had to be edited to match but that was real good.

X32Wright
09-07-2009, 04:30 PM
I'd have thought it unlikely that pathfinder Mossies would 'engage the Luftwaffe' deliberately, but I may well be wrong: can you give us a reference for this?


DUEL OF EAGLES by Peter Townsend

http://www.amazon.com/Duel-Eag...wnsend/dp/0891414320 (http://www.amazon.com/Duel-Eagles-Peter-Townsend/dp/0891414320)

AndyJWest
09-07-2009, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by X32Wright:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'd have thought it unlikely that pathfinder Mossies would 'engage the Luftwaffe' deliberately, but I may well be wrong: can you give us a reference for this?


DUEL OF EAGLES by Peter Townsend

http://www.amazon.com/Duel-Eag...wnsend/dp/0891414320 (http://www.amazon.com/Duel-Eagles-Peter-Townsend/dp/0891414320) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks, I'll see if I can find a copy. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif