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GerritJ9
03-02-2006, 02:06 PM
A video featuring Finnish Brewster B-239s can be downloaded from www.byterapers.com/~grend...Planes.wmv (http://www.byterapers.com/%7Egrend...Planes.wmv)
It also contains other stuff. Beware, it is a 30 MB download.
Enjoy!

han freak solo
03-02-2006, 02:07 PM
Link no workie! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

GerritJ9
03-02-2006, 02:10 PM
If it doesn't work from here, go to http://p196.ezboard.com/fwarbirdsforumfrm4.showMessage?topicID=306.topic and try from there.
Incidentally, this is part of the Buffalo message board- lots of info about Brewstes for those interested.

F19_Orheim
03-02-2006, 02:37 PM
link:

http://www.byterapers.com/~grendel/scan/video/Finland_C...ation_War_Planes.wmv (http://www.byterapers.com/%7Egrendel/scan/video/Finland_Continuation_War_Planes.wmv)

han freak solo
03-02-2006, 03:34 PM
Downloading . . . .

han freak solo
03-02-2006, 03:49 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif Great footage! Many types of aircraft!

Interesting heating devices. I wish I could take off and land the Brewster that well in the game! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

hugohugo37
03-02-2006, 05:03 PM
Amazing video. It's one thing to read about it but another to actually see this mish mosh of planes cobbled together. They really did use all those types operationally at the same time. It's like they took the scraps from almost every air force around and pieced together one of the best fighting units of the war. It's a fascinating story.

I'm also amazed at how the Finnish leadership managed to skillfully back out of their alliance with Germany and make a peace with the Soviets retaining their sovereignty.

Waldo.Pepper
03-02-2006, 05:13 PM
That was excellent. Thanks!

-HH- Beebop
03-02-2006, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
That was excellent. Thanks!

<span class="ev_code_red">What Waldo said!</span> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

GoToAway
03-02-2006, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by hugohugo37:
Amazing video. It's one thing to read about it but another to actually see this mish mosh of planes cobbled together. They really did use all those types operationally at the same time. It's like they took the scraps from almost every air force around and pieced together one of the best fighting units of the war. It's a fascinating story. That's one of the reasons that the Finnish front is probably my favorite front of WW2.

The Finns were basically totally screwed. Everything was pitched against them. It was a tiny (relatively speaking) nation against the Soviet juggernaut. Its neighbors abandoned it. The Allies pretty much ignored Finland once Norway fell (IIRC, France and Britain tried sending aid to Finland during the Winter War, but the Swedes blocked it. Eventually the British wound up declaring war on Finland, which I find pretty absurd since Germany was the only ally it had left and it wasn't as if Finland had dreams of European conquest.)

In spite of everything being poised against them, the Finns actually beat back the Soviet juggernaut beyond the pre-Winter War borders. And they did it all with what was arguably the world's most eclectic collection of equipment. Definitely an interesting story and theatre. I really hope to see it again (and in greater detail) in BoB. I'm really looking forward to the Fokker D.XXI for some good Winter War missions (and I'm hoping somebody comes up with some good Finnish Ju-88 missions.)

Really, where else were American and British planes fighting one another? Hurricanes vs. B-239s. P-40s vs. Blenheims. Hurricanes vs. Hurricanes. The Americans, British, Soviets, Dutch, Germans, and others all represented in one small air force.

Badsight.
03-02-2006, 09:52 PM
Thank You for posting this here

Friendly_flyer
03-02-2006, 11:38 PM
There's a lot of great pictures in that film! Not only the planes, but the Russian fuel truck and object nr. 1 from the Objects list is featured as well! It's very interesting to see how they kept the planes running in the cold. I dont speak Finnish, but I got the impression they pre-heated the engine oil. Is that right?

HotelBushranger
03-03-2006, 01:23 AM
Very nice! I'll have to get my father to decipher it for you blokes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Shame it cut off at the Hawk bit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

ustahl
03-03-2006, 02:47 AM
Great footage! It could have been even greater without cutting sequences off in the middle of the commentary speeches, which indicates that somewhere there is more of this stuff.

The Finnish commentary throughout the clips is quite interesting, too, like e.g. abt the aquisition of the Brewsters. It says that at the time of the Winter War the U.S. wanted to help the Finns. However, U.S. legislation prohibited the export of war material. So the Brewsters were classified obsolete and sold on auction with only one buyer participating, the Finnish government, who paid 1 US$ a piece. The Winter War ended before the planes came, but they were aquired as an asset for possible future needs. The Brewsters were shipped early 1940 to Stavanger, Norway, and from there to Trollh√¬§ttan, Sweden, where they were initially assembled before being transferred to Tampere, Finland early spring 1940.
Nice way to bypass government export restriction legislation http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I vaguelly recall some other info related to the purchase of the Brewsters, ie. that the UK was involved somehow. Possibly shipped via UK enroute to Stavanger? There's no mention abt UK involvement in the video speech, however.
Does someone know?

Cheers

FlatSpinMan
03-03-2006, 03:55 AM
Thanks for posting. That was fascinating to see all those familiar planes actually being used. I am surprised how close the ground crew were to the propellor when it starts up on the brewster.
That was great to see. Thanks again.

F0_Dark_P
03-03-2006, 04:56 AM
nice video, pity my mom did not teach me finnish when growing up http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

iroseland
03-03-2006, 05:48 AM
Wow,

Amazing footage. It has been easy to find footage from everywhere else I had been hopeing to see some of the brewster. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BSS_AIJO

BGs_Ricky
03-03-2006, 06:07 AM
Great video !! As I'm reading "Fighter Over Finland" by Eino Luukkanen right now (a must read!!) it is much appreciated. The Finns managed quite an achievement with their meagre air force, and obsolescent (by most nation's standards) planes.

LeLv44_Mangrove
03-03-2006, 06:23 AM
Most of the film can be seen on this video and there's even more on the video.

Air War Over Finland 1939-1945 (http://www.kolumbus.fi/kari.stenman/videos.html)

http://www.kolumbus.fi/kari.stenman/AWoF/AWoF_kansi_01.jpg http://www.kolumbus.fi/kari.stenman/AWoF/AWoF_kansi_02.jpg

HotelBushranger
03-03-2006, 07:59 AM
Yes, dads very proud of his heritage. That might be the only problem with Finns: they're too cocky about their success http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

About the British, they and the French and a 'Small Plan' as it was codenamed, to send troops to Finland via Sweden. However, it was scrapped because Sweden insisted on staying neutral. This all changed after Norway was invaded however.

Oh and Britain was legally forced to declare war on Finland, but noone was into it, and the one raid that occurred, the bomber pilots deliberately dropped their bombs into the sea. Nice bit a trivia there http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

And the FAF had the best compilation of aircraft, from all over world - beautiful http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

LeLv44_Mangrove
03-03-2006, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by HotelBushranger:
Oh and Britain was legally forced to declare war on Finland, but noone was into it, and the one raid that occurred, the bomber pilots deliberately dropped their bombs into the sea.

In fact, German Ju-87s & Bf-109/110 shot down over half of the strike force.

FAA attack on Petsamo to assist its ally the Soviet Union, July 1941 (http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/RollofHonour/Battlehonour_crewlists/Petsamo_Kirkenes_1941.html)


The strike on Kirkenes was a disaster and the Luftwaffe were waiting. The attack on Kirkenes involved HMS Victorious dispatching 12 Albacores from 827 sqdn, eight Albacores from 828 sqdn, and nine Fulmars from 809 sqdn in two sub-flights. The defences were fully alerted, and the Luftwaffe's Bf-109s and Bf-110s were already in the air for aerial defence. The FAA squadrons claimed one 2,000 ton steamer sunk, another set afire, and minor damage ashore, as well as claiming two Bf-109s and one Bf-110 destroyed. Fleet Air Arm losses were severe, totalling eleven Albacores and two Fulmars with eight other Albacores being damaged. For all intents and purposes the entire 827 Albacore Squadron had ceased to exist.

Aimosika
03-03-2006, 09:14 AM
And when the British Lancs attacked Tirpiz in Norway, they continued to Russia over Finland to refuel and stayed few days. And in their way back to England they flew all the way Finland and there were no hostilities between Finns and Brits. One Me109 went to check them and say 'Hi!' and and our aa-guns did not interfere their journey back home http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And when Britain declared war to Finland, Winston Churchill personally wrote to Marshall Mannerhein to say sorry about this but he had to it because otherwise it would annoy russians. (I believe Churchill hated the russians above all 'cos that executed Tzar Nikolai II was his cousin (?), at least his quite close relative anyway.

Grendel-B
03-03-2006, 09:35 AM
Yay,

Nice to see it pleases you. I'm transferring stuff from VHS to DVD for a local Fiat G.50 pilot vet pilot, and he truly does have great collection of all kinds of documentaries and so on. I thought to clip few bits of one document to that video, because it contained some material I'd never seen before. Like the Brewsters starting and so on.

Escpecially notice in winter shots how the planes are moved around, planes are equipped with skis and how they're keeping a snowy airfield "steady", plowing it. Also notice how they're covering the engines of Brewsters and Moranes, keeping them warm in the cold. In one or so clip you can see how the engine is completely covered, with the protective hanging downwards and there's this little box, where a fire is warming up the engine. Before it (or after?) you can also see the mechanics making their wonders to the engine oil. The engine was completely drained of oil, and the mechanics warmed it before a sortie was to fly, and put the hot oil into the engine, while the warming fire was underneath it, and only then started the engine. Good bits are with the mechanics, one shot when the chap is standing on gear and turning the starter handle to start the Brewster engine.

Etc http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

GoToAway
03-03-2006, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by Aimosika:
And when the British Lancs attacked Tirpiz in Norway, they continued to Russia over Finland to refuel and stayed few days. And in their way back to England they flew all the way Finland and there were no hostilities between Finns and Brits. One Me109 went to check them and say 'Hi!' and and our aa-guns did not interfere their journey back home http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Interesting. I didn't know that.

I had always assumed that the Finns would be very bitter about the British war declaration. After all, the Allies weren't much help to them in the Winter War and here they were declaring war because Finland sided with the one country it could.

LeLv44_Mangrove
03-03-2006, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by GoToAway:
I had always assumed that the Finns would be very bitter about the British war declaration.

A popular phrase among Finnish soldiers after the war declaration was something like "Ajakaa partanne, me ollaan nyt sodassa gentlemanneja vastaan!" (Shave you beards, were are now war against gentlemans!)

Grendel-B
03-03-2006, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by GoToAway:

I had always assumed that the Finns would be very bitter about the British war declaration. After all, the Allies weren't much help to them in the Winter War and here they were declaring war because Finland sided with the one country it could.

Nah. There was no hostility. A well known anecdote says, when the declaration of war was printed on newspapers, how some chaps in the front lines wondered "should we put a guard now to the other direction as well?"

Relations normalized very quickly after the ended. The "war" was just a political move and it was well understood in here.

That "one 109 checked them" sounds like a myth, though. It was a German 109 if there was ever one and it surely would have attacked. Though, who knows. I've only read about the Lancaster overflights, and don't remember they were seen much.

Treetop64
03-03-2006, 04:38 PM
Jeez-Louise, man! What a hodge-podge collection of aircraft for an air force!

Though I don't understand what the commentator is saying (sounds like recorded English being played backwards!), but I'm under the impression that all those aircraft shown were based at the same airstation. Is that right?

GerritJ9
03-03-2006, 05:11 PM
Pity the video isn't available as DVD, otherwise one would already be on its way to Hollandhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
LOVE the Brewster stuff, but of course the Buffalo is my fav fighter. I have one short video of RAF Buffalos being uncrated and assembled at Seletar; there are apparently some short films of Dutch Brewsters at Andir and other locations in the NEI but I haven't seen them yethttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
As for HotelBushranger's remark about aircraft from all over the world, not quite......... there wasn't a single aircraft in the Finnish Air Force bearing a "Made in Japan" label!!!http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Haigotron
03-03-2006, 08:16 PM
WOW awesome vid!

I dont want to say that which has been said by others, but really incredible cirumstances, great machines and even greater men!

They even had a storck hidden in the trees for some recon http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

HotelBushranger
03-03-2006, 10:53 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Touche' Gerrit!

All those aircraft weren't operation at the same aerodrome. IIRC, The Brewsters were LeLV 24, Fiats 28, Hawks were...26? I forget http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

But yes, very nice footage all over. At the point where they were steamrolling the ground, turns out it they were over a frozen lake http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif using that as the landing strip. Talk about balls http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


In fact, German Ju-87s & Bf-109/110 shot down over half of the strike force.

I am not sure about that. The site says it was after Operation Barbarossa started. In my book, Frozen Hell: Winter War, it said a raid, maybe not this one, was at a date that was before the end of the WW. Operation Barbarossa commenced the Continuation War. So, I dunno. Maybe there were 2 raids http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Stigler_9_JG52
03-03-2006, 11:14 PM
Thanks for this post!!! Even though I don't speak a word of Finnish it was interesting.

Lots of footage of Ilmari Juutilainen's Brewster!

CUJO_1970
03-03-2006, 11:36 PM
Thanks...that was one of the best vids ever posted here IMO. Loved the recon Dornier and the Brewster footage.

The airfield preparation work and the engine/oil warming stuff was fantastic.

FiAW_Vaijy
03-04-2006, 02:38 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by HotelBushranger:
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Touche' Gerrit!

All those aircraft weren't operation at the same aerodrome. IIRC, The Brewsters were LeLV 24, Fiats 28, Hawks were...26? I forget http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Small correction , Fiats were LeLv26 and Curtis Hawks were LeLv28...

Grendel-B
03-04-2006, 02:40 AM
Originally posted by Treetop64:

I'm under the impression that all those aircraft shown were based at the same airstation. Is that right?

No. The clips are from many different locations and various years.

HotelBushranger
03-04-2006, 03:38 AM
Haha beauty http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Almost got it spot on! Boy am I proud http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

LeLv44_Mangrove
03-04-2006, 06:30 AM
Originally posted by FiAW_Vaijy:
Small correction , Fiats were LeLv26 and Curtis Hawks were LeLv28...

Actually the Curtiss Hawks were first in LeLv 12 and LeLv 14, but they were transferred quickly to LeLv 32 were they stayed for the rest of war. LeLv 28 had Morane-Saulnier MS-406s and 410s.

puhakka-GB
03-04-2006, 07:25 PM
Excellent vid, many thanks.