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Destined299
12-03-2011, 09:21 AM
I have my reasons and if you read through em I am sure I will persuade you to believe the same.

Firstly, he wanted the apple for himself. It's abilities made him a power hungry fiend who was attached to it. He should have given it to Abbas since he wasn't even the mentor anymore.

Maria died at the hands of him. Most of you didn't notice this but Altair used the apple to make the assassin stab maria in the back. He did it so he could use it as an excuse to take down abbas. Only a fool would miss that part, which the majority of you did.

He spread lies about Abbass and shamed his whole family. He even burnt the corpse of Al Mualim when that was strictly forbidden by the brotherhood. Therefore that makes him a hypocrite. He betrayed the brotherhood and therefore he was rightly banished from Masyaf. But Altair was alaways seeking mayheh. Even as an old man, he couldn't resist the urge to kill.

His selfishness got his son killed. He didn't even care about that. He was never a family man, he never loved anyone from his family. All he cared about was the apple. And what did that get him? He held it for around 60 years and he still didn't accomplish anything from it.

All in all, he is no better than any other templar leader that we have come across. Ezio is much more righteous and is more sympathetic.

So have I convinced you guys?

RzaRecta357
12-03-2011, 09:26 AM
Heh, you're totally wrong. Not sure if you're trying to just be sarcastic or not but.

He kept the apple safe first of all. Abbas would of done evil with it.

Altair was never banished from Masyaf.

Altair was the mentor before he left for Mongolia.

Whilst he was gone he left Malik in charge.


When he returned, Abbas stole the mentor spot. Had Malik AND Altairs son Sef killed. Beheaded even.

When they returned they learn of this and Altair uses the apple to make buddy go to slit his own throat. But instead Maria gets in the way and breaks his concentration and bam, Maria gets stabbed.


Altair leaves on his own free will because Abbas poisoned lots of the assassin's thoughts while they Altair was gone.


Fast forward to when he returns and Abbas has almost destroyed the order. Hiring fake assassins and letting bandits rob the village below. It's a shade of it's former glory.

Altair came back and saved the day. Changed the order so you could love with your family and yadda yadda.


But you obviously are being sarcastic, or else you just don't understand storylines very good. So my terrible explanation will have to do.

DavisP92
12-03-2011, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by Destined299:
I have my reasons and if you read through em I am sure I will persuade you to believe the same.

Firstly, he wanted the apple for himself. It's abilities made him a power hungry fiend who was attached to it. He should have given it to Abbas since he wasn't even the mentor anymore.

Maria died at the hands of him. Most of you didn't notice this but Altair used the apple to make the assassin stab maria in the back. He did it so he could use it as an excuse to take down abbas. Only a fool would miss that part, which the majority of you did.

He spread lies about Abbass and shamed his whole family. He even burnt the corpse of Al Mualim when that was strictly forbidden by the brotherhood. Therefore that makes him a hypocrite. He betrayed the brotherhood and therefore he was rightly banished from Masyaf. But Altair was alaways seeking mayheh. Even as an old man, he couldn't resist the urge to kill.

His selfishness got his son killed. He didn't even care about that. He was never a family man, he never loved anyone from his family. All he cared about was the apple. And what did that get him? He held it for around 60 years and he still didn't accomplish anything from it.

All in all, he is no better than any other templar leader that we have come across. Ezio is much more righteous and is more sympathetic.

So have I convinced you guys?

lol close topic, this is a dumb post. u either are just playing around or u just don't know anything about the series

Krayus Korianis
12-03-2011, 09:27 AM
No, you haven't convinced me that Alta´r is evil.

1. Alta´r didn't crave the apple like you believe. Did you not see how Abbas could not control the apple of eden? You didn't even recognize that Abbas destroyed everything that they have built?

2. When he used the Apple against Abbas' footman, Maria stepped in to stop Alta´r. When he stopped the man stabbed her in the back. Alta´r then stabbed him in the throat.

3. Alta´r didn't spread lies about Abbas' father. He just never told him that he killed himself to regain his honor until the end of Abbas' life.

4. No, Abbas' hate towards Alta´r because Abbas didn't believe Alta´r about his father, killed Sef.

Bipolar Matt
12-03-2011, 09:29 AM
You smell that, guys? I smell troll. Or maybe it's poe...

Destined299
12-03-2011, 09:30 AM
I think I still hold a strong arguement. And no I'm not being sarcastic.

dxsxhxcx
12-03-2011, 09:31 AM
you have convinced me that:

1. you're a troll
2. you're just too innocent and understood everything wrong...

Go read the book "The Secret Crusade" if you want to know more about Altair's life because from what I heard, his memories in the game don't make him justice...

Eregost
12-03-2011, 09:35 AM
You need to read The Secret Crusade to really understand this conflict. Two points.

1. The Assasin that stabbed Maria did so because of the Apple's control over him true but Altair did not order it. The book says the Apple caused the Assassin to slash about wildy and this kills Maria after which the assassin took his own life. In the game Altair kills him though.

2. Altair did not lie about Abbas' dad. He did come to Altair, apologise and kil himself. However the only two people that knew this were Altair and Al Mualim, and Al Mualim told Altair to keep it secret and he didn't vertify the story to Abbas after Altair told him so Abbas believed Altair was lying to slander and shame him.

Riften
12-03-2011, 09:37 AM
Sorry buddy but you don't have a clue about this series.

Notice how Abbas turned into a psycho and turned the order to ****? Remember the scene when Altair returns to Masyaf and he is talking to those "Assassins" that turned out to be fake?

Altair could control the apple, he was not at all obsessed.

He most certainly loved his family, notice what he said to Darim, "Go son, be with your family" If he didn't love his family, why did he hug Darim one last time?

He burned Al Mualims corpse for a reason, he could have easily used the apple to create an illusion like he did at the start of AC1.

Also, a question...how exactly did Altair betray the Order?

Oh yeah, Abbas was a much better leader!

rileypoole1234
12-03-2011, 09:39 AM
Hey guess what... Your wrong. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Sarari
12-03-2011, 09:46 AM
Ok, Altair did care about his family. Didn't you hear when Altair said that Abbas deserves to die because he killed his son. Not only did he say that, but he said it with complete viciousness. He also told Darim to turn back because they would try and kill him. I'm pretty sure that he cares about his family. And when he was riding away with Darim out of Masyaf, he said to himself "Maria....my love http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif" with absolute grief and sadness.

This status is idiotic because apparently, you're just hating on him because you're an Ezio fanboy.

Bipolar Matt
12-03-2011, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by Destined299:
I think I still hold a strong arguement. And no I'm not being sarcastic.

You say you have a strong argument? Well, counter everyone's responses to your claims, then.

Crouching.Tiger
12-03-2011, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by Destined299:
Only a fool would miss that part, which the majority of you did.

Wow, subtle http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

naran6142
12-03-2011, 10:22 AM
@ Destined299

lol, after reading all these posts, ummmm... i think you lost http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

maybe next time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ScytheOfGrim
12-03-2011, 10:28 AM
I have been convinced.

SleezeRocker
12-03-2011, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by BipolarMatt:
You smell that, guys? Maybe it's poe...

I'll get right on it!
http://www.zeldadungeon.net/Zelda06/Bottles/BigPoe.jpg

SolidSage
12-03-2011, 11:38 AM
Actually, while I don't agree with you that Altair was evil, he did betray his Order. He constantly broke the rules. I mean, that finger got cut off for a reason, but no, Altair is special so he can have a wife and kids, and like you said, burn Al Mualim's body.

It's these things that made him good though, refusing to blindly follow ridiculous rules designed to enslave minds.

The Templars and Assassins in his era were two extremes, where Altair was a little closer to the center. That's the problem with extremely 'good' people, they can't tolerate anything less than their view of how things should be.

Extremists man, they're a lot like fanatics.

LightRey
12-03-2011, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by SolidSage:
Actually, while I don't agree with you that Altair was evil, he did betray his Order. He constantly broke the rules. I mean, that finger got cut off for a reason, but no, Altair is special so he can have a wife and kids, and like you said, burn Al Mualim's body.

It's these things that made him good though, refusing to blindly follow ridiculous rules designed to enslave minds.

The Templars and Assassins in his era were two extremes, where Altair was a little closer to the center. That's the problem with extremely 'good' people, they can't tolerate anything less than their view of how things should be.

Extremists man, they're a lot like fanatics.
All Assassins had their finger cut off during Al Mualim's rule. It was to show their dedication.

LordWolv
12-03-2011, 11:43 AM
Of course he was evil. It's blatantly obvious.
He killed people in cold blood as a living. He ordered people to kill people in cold blood as a living. He committed mass and extremist murder both directly and indirectly.
Of course he was evil...

LightRey
12-03-2011, 11:54 AM
Assassins "live in the dark, to serve the light". They do evil things to prevent others from doing more evil things.

UrDeviant1
12-03-2011, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by Destined299:
I have my reasons and if you read through em I am sure I will persuade you to believe the same.

Only a fool would miss that part, which the majority of you did.


So have I convinced you guys?

Wow dude, you have totally convinced me. But not of what you originally Intended. Is Revelations your first AC game?

winterelf86
12-03-2011, 12:37 PM
First the "Ezio is a homicidal maniac" thread and now this? XD Sorry...you haven't convinced me.

xboxauditore
12-03-2011, 05:41 PM
BLASPHEMER!

Hehe, Just Kidding.

1. Altair Kept the Apple because it would corrupt Weaker Minds and he could resist it.

2. He was going to give the Apple to Swami, But he angered Altair, and the Apple read his anger and made him attack himself, Maria calmed him a bit, giving Swami enough strength to stab Maria.

3. He didn't lie *SPOILERS* Altairs Father Umar succeeded in a Warning mission to Salah, Al'din, But had to kill one of his men, Abbas's Father was tortured by Salah until he said Umar did it, Then they wanted his death in Justice, To which Umar agreed. Because of this, Abbas's father came into Altair's room and seeked retribution by Slitting his own throat, Redeeming himself.

4. He loved his family, but his banishment stopped him from tracking down Sef, who had found out about Abbas's betrayal, Before he could say anything, Swami Assassinated him, Silencing anything Altair could learn, Darim survived because he kept quiet and kept his hatred Secret.

The Secret Crusades was a Brilliant book, Filling in a lot about Altair.

lIllIIIllIl
12-03-2011, 06:27 PM
Just wanted to say, I do see where this guy is coming from, even though he's completely wrong. Revelations made Altair out to be...much different than in AC1. His misconceptions are probably based on having only played ACR :P Cut a troll some slack!

Sarari
12-03-2011, 11:13 PM
Originally posted by SolidSage:
Actually, while I don't agree with you that Altair was evil, he did betray his Order. He constantly broke the rules. I mean, that finger got cut off for a reason, but no, Altair is special so he can have a wife and kids, and like you said, burn Al Mualim's body.

It's these things that made him good though, refusing to blindly follow ridiculous rules designed to enslave minds.

The Templars and Assassins in his era were two extremes, where Altair was a little closer to the center. That's the problem with extremely 'good' people, they can't tolerate anything less than their view of how things should be.

Extremists man, they're a lot like fanatics.
Sometimes breaking the rules for the greater good is necessary. Burning his body was to ensure that Al Mualim didn't return. He encouraged the people to actually raise a family and live a happy life. But the people fell under Abbas's control, and couldn't.

fossa1991
12-04-2011, 12:21 AM
While reading through this i couldn't stop laughing OMG.Destined299 you totally convinced me man Altair is a evil son of a *****.
That was totally not sarcasm btw.
*sarcasm*

indulgence82
12-04-2011, 12:31 AM
Originally posted by Destined299:
I have my reasons and if you read through em I am sure I will persuade you to believe the same.

Firstly, he wanted the apple for himself. It's abilities made him a power hungry fiend who was attached to it. He should have given it to Abbas since he wasn't even the mentor anymore.

Maria died at the hands of him. Most of you didn't notice this but Altair used the apple to make the assassin stab maria in the back. He did it so he could use it as an excuse to take down abbas. Only a fool would miss that part, which the majority of you did.

He spread lies about Abbass and shamed his whole family. He even burnt the corpse of Al Mualim when that was strictly forbidden by the brotherhood. Therefore that makes him a hypocrite. He betrayed the brotherhood and therefore he was rightly banished from Masyaf. But Altair was alaways seeking mayheh. Even as an old man, he couldn't resist the urge to kill.

His selfishness got his son killed. He didn't even care about that. He was never a family man, he never loved anyone from his family. All he cared about was the apple. And what did that get him? He held it for around 60 years and he still didn't accomplish anything from it.

All in all, he is no better than any other templar leader that we have come across. Ezio is much more righteous and is more sympathetic.

So have I convinced you guys?

If you noticed Altair locked the apple inside the tomb with him and then set the apple down on the shelf. If you hadn't noticed the apple was artificially keeping him alive because he needed to set the Assassin order down the right path. Had he been so obsessed he wouldn't have put the apple down he would have held on to it as long as possible to keep extending his life. And as for pretty much all the other stuff it seems like you never even played the first game or you wouldn't have came to that conclusion. I think you made this post just to incite an argument more than you actually believe what you posted.