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Airmail109
08-27-2007, 06:21 AM
http://www.totalwar.com/index.html?page=/en/communityan...re.html&nav=/en/6/8/ (http://www.totalwar.com/index.html?page=/en/communityandforums/empire.html&nav=/en/6/8/)

Swwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!

Closet imperialists rejoice!

Jediteo
08-27-2007, 06:43 AM
Finally, Naval Battles, been waiting for this since shogun.

Stew278
08-27-2007, 08:10 AM
Nice http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

HuninMunin
08-27-2007, 08:13 AM
This and KotS are going to make me happy for many years to come.

BSS_Goat
08-27-2007, 09:19 AM
When is it due out?? I'm still playing RTW http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

Doug_Thompson
08-27-2007, 09:27 AM
When I disappear from this forum for months on end, it's because a new Total War is out.

And I've been missing naval battles for a long time, too.

logie7
08-27-2007, 05:51 PM
Hmm... it does look brilliant but some the blurb has me a little concerned.

"Empire: Total War will be the most accessible Total War game ever. Enhanced auto management, revolutionized UI, improved advice system and tutorials all combine to introduce new players to the concepts of Total War, quickly and easily. "

it seems they're reaching out to an even bigger audiance than they did with rome and M2, and those two games i felt lacked the atmosphere of shogun and medieval. Plus if there changing anymore stuff i fear it may loose more of that total war feel. I hope im wrong but the way some games are geared nowadays its more about making money than a game that has some depth.

Divine-Wind
08-27-2007, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by Jediteo:
Finally, Naval Battles, been waiting for this since shogun.

Stew278
08-27-2007, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by BSS_Goat:
When is it due out?? I'm still playing RTW http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

Looks like they're saying sometime in 2008, which of course probably means sometime in 2009 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

So there's plenty of time to enjoy RTW and M2TW before this one arrives. I just began playing RTW again because of the LOTR based Fourth Age Total War mod.

SeaFireLIV
08-28-2007, 04:15 AM
I really like the Total war series and I think MTWII is the best so far all told.

Empires with its napoleonic theme never really interested me, being a strange `inbetween technology` time. Also the fighting seems limited. this is probably my ignorance showing.

However, the ship battles should be grand and I`m even rewatching a bit of Sharpe to help.

It`ll be a while before release though, so i wouldn`t get too excited about it yet. At times like this I prefer to forget about it as time moves much quicker when I do.

Kurfurst__
08-28-2007, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
I really like the Total war series and I think MTWII is the best so far all told.

Empires with its napoleonic theme never really interested me, being a strange `inbetween technology` time.

Hussars, man, hussars. The only soldiers to actually sat in both Fredrick the Great's and Napoleon's throne. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Here's actually a nice shot of them, the boots are wrong though :

http://s2.directupload.net/images/070825/aGVtVK92.jpg


Also the fighting seems limited. this is probably my ignorance showing.

No the 18th century... it was non-stop war basically... in timely order
1700s..War of the Spanish succession... with a certain Eugen of Savoy and Marlborough.. Here where I stand - the Rákóczi-rebellion against the Habsburgs..
1710..the Baltic wars between Sweden and the Ottoman and the emerging Russia under Peter the Great...
1740s..War of the Austrian Spanish succession...
1750s..the Seven years war on both the continent and on the colonies...
1770-80s...the War of Independence in the Americas..
1790s-1800s..Wars of the French revolution and the Napoleonic wars.

Sorry if I forgot anything and if my list is incomplete.

BSS_Goat
08-28-2007, 11:15 AM
What kind of system would I need to run MTWII?
I thought about getting it but dont want to upgrade.

HuninMunin
08-28-2007, 11:36 AM
I run it on almost max settings on 2.8 Ghz, 512 RD-Rams and X800.
Pretty fluid exept for really massive battles in massive citys.

Kurfurst__
08-28-2007, 11:40 AM
Probably a very easy one for any Brit but what's that song being played under the scene from Kubrick's Berry Lyndon? I was wondering about that for years, one of the best marches from the era, next to the Yorckscher Marsch..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfvCjLgbpy0&mode=related&search=

ploughman
08-28-2007, 12:00 PM
That's 'The British Grenadiers' march, also known as the 'Minden' song.

Kurfurst__
08-28-2007, 12:03 PM
Thanks Plough'. Gotta get that one in the collection. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

MB_Avro_UK
08-28-2007, 02:44 PM
@ Kurfurst

Thanks for posting the youtube clip http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I'll look this up further.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Divine-Wind
08-28-2007, 02:51 PM
On the subject of naval battles... I see some possible pirate mods in store for E:TW. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Airmail109
08-28-2007, 02:53 PM
pardon my ignorance but warfare then seemed daft

even with the unacurate slow muskets why not flank them...dispersed....and after one shot go in hard and fast with bayonets????? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Surely walking into a hail of musket fire is pretty stupid even then with old tech?

PBNA-Boosher
08-28-2007, 03:37 PM
If you're finding it hard to wait, might I suggest Napoleonic II: Total War? It was created by the Lordz and is a very good modification for R:TW. It's multiplayer only, but still it's a lot of fun to play. Countries available for play are France, Russia, Prussia, Bruswick, Austria, Naples, Spain, The United Netherlands, and Great Britain. The Portuguese are being developed for implementation as we post.

Check it out at -

The Lordz Modding Collective (http://lordz.thelordz.co.uk/index.php?index)

MB_Avro_UK
08-28-2007, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
pardon my ignorance but warfare then seemed daft

even with the unacurate slow muskets why not flank them...dispersed....and after one shot go in hard and fast with bayonets????? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Surely walking into a hail of musket fire is pretty stupid even then with old tech?

I agree with you. But the convention at that time was to use this tactic. This tactic persisted during WW1 when machine guns were more deadly than muskets.

Good clip though http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

SeaFireLIV
08-28-2007, 04:56 PM
Ah, yes. seen that film. Good clip.

Sure seems crazy walking slowly (or maybe slight fast walking) into 4 rounds of musket shot, even if they weren`t machine guns.

Staying low, taking cover and flanking seems emminently wiser and a way to save at least 50% of your men. Still I do respect such men.

Where do we get such men, eh?

huggy87
08-28-2007, 05:38 PM
To our modern eyes their suicidal tactics seem, well, suicidal. For them it was more of a command and control necessity than just ignorance or arrogance. Better to keep the men together and in unison than scattered to east bejesus.

SeaFireLIV
08-28-2007, 07:11 PM
Yea, well this is what i mean when i say the period was a weird `inbetween` period for warfare. The period before was mostly sword, spear, arrow and the tactics used then made logical sense. the period later on (after WWI, etc) was more logical in that it learned then how to better used weapons and tactics.


It was more like a time when they were understanding what a gun was and how to deal with it.

I wonder if some bright spark in the 17th century did use modern tactics of disperse, flank and charge with blade after one shot would this have spelled the end for the gun if such tactic had been adopted universally? perhaps Men would have seen the musket as a mistake and gone back to the sword?

Then again maybe not. They`d probably just invent the machine gun faster!

Divine-Wind
08-28-2007, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
pardon my ignorance but warfare then seemed daft

even with the unacurate slow muskets why not flank them...dispersed....and after one shot go in hard and fast with bayonets????? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Surely walking into a hail of musket fire is pretty stupid even then with old tech?
As Huggy pointed out, commanding an army was a tad more complicated and harder than it is now. They had no radios or telephones, only messengers on foot or horseback, which could be captured or killed. Having an army spread out and scattered would be a disaster for a general sitting in a tent trying to keep up with the goings on of a battle.
At least that's how I see it.

NTW2 is a fantastic mod. I'm having a blast even in singleplayer against the ridiculously odd AI.

Von_Rat
08-28-2007, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Ah, yes. seen that film. Good clip.

Sure seems crazy walking slowly (or maybe slight fast walking) into 4 rounds of musket shot, even if they weren`t machine guns.

Staying low, taking cover and flanking seems emminently wiser and a way to save at least 50% of your men. Still I do respect such men.

Where do we get such men, eh?

if your men stayed low and spreadout to take cover they couldnt generate enough firepower to keep a formed body of troops from breaking right through their line. (they were also dead meat if cavarly showed up).

conversly the only hope you had to generate enough firepower and mass to break through a formed body of troops was to mass your troops in a similar fashion.

its that simple


skimishers who btw were very vunerable to cavarly, did use cover and spread themselves out, but they could only do enough damage to slowly attrit the enemy, artillary also helped this attrition, but it took formed up infrantry or cavarly to break a formed up enemy.


the advent of the breech loading rifle (which unlike the musket could be loaded from a prone position) plus the machine gun allowed even dispersed troops under cover to generate enough firepower to stop formed up infrantry or cavarly.

M_Gunz
08-28-2007, 09:51 PM
Don't forget the cannon including grape shot and the mortars they used.
Even the Mel Gibson Patriot movie shows something of the distances and tactics on a lesser scale
than in Europe.

From a documentary "The War That Made America", about the French and Indian War there was until
1754 a kind of cold war between France and Britain. Mostly it was about strategic maneuver and
out-maneuver but not outright hot war. The fork-meeting of three rivers, the Allegheny and the
Monongahela to form the Ohio, Road to the Ohio Valley became a major contest point and the French
held it when George Washington at 22 years old arrived.
In a small battle he and his native allies killed a French group and captured the officer. The
native allies then killed the French officer while George, his men outnumbered, watched. You
won't find that on a fan site, btw, or grade-school history book.
In a later battle soon after, George was captured and forced to sign a document written in French
that he could not read. It was written by the brother of the slain officer and in it George
'confessed' to the murder of the captive.

When that got back to France, the cold war went HOT. It could be said that George Washington
triggered the first world war as French and British colonies worldwide went at it.

Before then the colonists had ponied up money to help the Crown pay for the French and Indian
War and did that without being asked. When the Crown demanded more money to help pay for the
larger struggle is when "Taxation Without Representation" was born and with it the American
Revolution.

All because of a skirmish maybe less than 50 men total and one party taking unilateral action.

Poor George, how significant than a few years later he gets major help from the French?

Kurfurst__
08-29-2007, 03:29 AM
Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
@ Kurfurst

Thanks for posting the youtube clip http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I'll look this up further.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Check this one too....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmejpbzq510


HUSSSSSSAAAAAAAAAARS...!!!!! You gotto love 'em. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

leitmotiv
08-29-2007, 03:54 AM
The key was, indeed, to outflank the enemy. Austerlitz, Napoleon's greatest victory, was won this way. I played a boardgame of Austerlitz on the battalion level in 1980 with another Napoleonics nut. I massed my French artillery into a colossal grand battery a la Wagram, and massed all my cavalry a la Friedland. I threw my main force at Bagration in the north as I pulverized him with my artillery. Performed a double envelopment with the cavalry, and put Bagration into the bag. The Russian player conceded. I never threw infantry at defenses.

In the actual Battle of Austerlitz, a crack French regiment shot it out at point-blank range with a crack Russian regiment. Both took horrendous casualties. But this was rare, as Paddy Griffith shows in his excellent book on infantry tactics through the years. Usually one side approached, fired a quick volley, charged with bayonets, and the other side booked over the hill. Suvorov was famous for only using "cold steel"---he trained his infantry to use the bayonet, and didn't bother firing. Intimidated the Turks. Fascinating period.

The ships in the game look completely phony. I prefer SALVO!

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/Sprue/Salvo/1.htm

Blutarski2004
08-29-2007, 06:16 AM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
pardon my ignorance but warfare then seemed daft

even with the unacurate slow muskets why not flank them...dispersed....and after one shot go in hard and fast with bayonets????? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Surely walking into a hail of musket fire is pretty stupid even then with old tech?


..... I recommend you read "Battle Studies" by Ardant du Piq. If you do a little hunting, you can find it as an e-book on the web.

leitmotiv
08-29-2007, 06:31 AM
Another thing which militated against musketry duels was the low-visibility of the black powder-era Napoleonic battlefield. Cannon and muskets produced clouds of smoke which obscured much of the battlefield and prevented top commanders from being able to micro-manage battles unless they, as Napoleon and Wellington did, went right to the middle of the fighting, and directed from the front. Of course, it is this tactical uncertainty which is not rendered in wargames.

One nice touch in SALVO! is masses of cannon smoke. If you play with full realism, you won't be able to see anything from your flagship once the shooting starts so, like Nelson, you had better have a good plan because you won't be able to micro-manage.

ytareh
08-29-2007, 08:33 AM
The Lordz mod for Rome Total War called Napoleonic 2 Total War CAN be played offline as well as online.In my opinion its not as good as the standalone Imperial Glory but if you have RTW its well worth downloading (free!).It has fabulous splash screens-joint best ever along with the old 'cartoon' ones from CFS2....