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View Full Version : So who is the Templars best mole? Series SPOILERS!



RzaRecta357
11-24-2011, 02:06 PM
So, I just reached level 30 in the Mplayer and I was curious. It says Daniel was the SECOND most successful spy to date. That's the guy who killed THE MENTOR. How is that the second most successful? There was also something else that led me to believe one of the team was a spy but I forget what it was now.

Anyway, anyone else have any light to shed on this?

xx-pyro
11-24-2011, 02:09 PM
Probably the mole that is still around the assassins to date (according to the MP Abstergo file.)

Assassin_M
11-24-2011, 02:11 PM
DESMOND MILES http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

LightRey
11-24-2011, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by Assassin_M:
DESMOND MILES http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
ba-dum-tshh (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffjq1gFO4rc&feature=related)

blazefp
11-24-2011, 02:20 PM
I had the exact same reaction this afternoon. Not only he killed the mentor but also reveled the location of Assassin's hideouts, which led to the great purge and consequently the fall of the Assassin's influence. Hmm...I bet this will be answered forward in the game but Lucy being a templar starts to look more and more possible. I hope it doesn't though, it would be a bad end for the game imo

RzaRecta357
11-24-2011, 03:21 PM
I hope it isn't Lucy either. Although I highly doubt it is.

LieutenantJojo
11-24-2011, 04:35 PM
Hmm... loads of possibilities. If the mole has already been introduced, then it is/was either Rebecca, Shaun, Lucy or William, but I doubt it.

Remember that guy who was with William during the Da Vinci Disappearance? Maybe it's him? Or the Erudito guy?

Meh, perhaps it's just nothing, but if it is, it will probably be a complete mind f*ck.

KaiserSpartan
11-24-2011, 05:35 PM
Either the mole is still alive somewhere, or it was Al-Mualim (but then again he technically wasn't siding with the Templars...so yea... no clue)

CRUDFACE
11-24-2011, 06:09 PM
Cain, he did kill the first assassin after all, lol

Agentbarto
11-24-2011, 11:39 PM
Could be less obvious than those primary members of the Assassins. Possibly secondary affiliates; Erudito or Juno.

YHHTQ
11-24-2011, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by Agentbarto:
Could be less obvious than those primary members of the Assassins. Possibly secondary affiliates; Erudito or Juno.

You're joking concerning Juno, right? :\

RzaRecta357
11-25-2011, 01:30 AM
People thinking Juno is evil because of her attitude in ACB are wrong I think. She was one of the three that were looked up to in her society. Statues and what have you.

So, we have Shawn and Rebecca whom seem to good personality wise and what not. Then we have Desmonds dad whom we know NOTHING about and a dead lucy.

So, who's the mole?

Daniel seen all time as one and knows what he needs to do. I'm sure he killed the mentor and went back to abstergo on purpose to further the assassin gain in the long run.

Agentbarto
11-25-2011, 02:19 AM
Originally posted by YHHTQ:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Agentbarto:
Could be less obvious than those primary members of the Assassins. Possibly secondary affiliates; Erudito or Juno.

You're joking concerning Juno, right? :\ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
How is that a joke?

I'm totally not... think about templar ideology and Juno's comments versus Minerva's.

LightRey
11-25-2011, 02:55 AM
Originally posted by RzaRecta357:
People thinking Juno is evil because of her attitude in ACB are wrong I think. She was one of the three that were looked up to in her society. Statues and what have you.

So, we have Shawn and Rebecca whom seem to good personality wise and what not. Then we have Desmonds dad whom we know NOTHING about and a dead lucy.

So, who's the mole?

Daniel seen all time as one and knows what he needs to do. I'm sure he killed the mentor and went back to abstergo on purpose to further the assassin gain in the long run.
Well it's not Desmond's dad since he's the target of assassination. I'm thinking it's either that guy we hear talking with Bill in ACB, or someone we have yet to meet.

LieutenantJojo
11-25-2011, 03:30 AM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RzaRecta357:
People thinking Juno is evil because of her attitude in ACB are wrong I think. She was one of the three that were looked up to in her society. Statues and what have you.

So, we have Shawn and Rebecca whom seem to good personality wise and what not. Then we have Desmonds dad whom we know NOTHING about and a dead lucy.

So, who's the mole?

Daniel seen all time as one and knows what he needs to do. I'm sure he killed the mentor and went back to abstergo on purpose to further the assassin gain in the long run.
Well it's not Desmond's dad since he's the target of assassination. I'm thinking it's either that guy we hear talking with Bill in ACB, or someone we have yet to meet. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Holy sh*t, I just remembered something. Do you guys remember the e-mails from ACB? Shaun jokingly says that Rebecca is a templar. And since Lucy's password (Juno...) was a nice little foreshadowing, what if this is a foreshadowing as well?

It could be possible that Rebecca has been sending information to Abstergo about the Animus-sessions with Desmond all this time.

LightRey
11-25-2011, 04:25 AM
Originally posted by LieutenantJojo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RzaRecta357:
People thinking Juno is evil because of her attitude in ACB are wrong I think. She was one of the three that were looked up to in her society. Statues and what have you.

So, we have Shawn and Rebecca whom seem to good personality wise and what not. Then we have Desmonds dad whom we know NOTHING about and a dead lucy.

So, who's the mole?

Daniel seen all time as one and knows what he needs to do. I'm sure he killed the mentor and went back to abstergo on purpose to further the assassin gain in the long run.
Well it's not Desmond's dad since he's the target of assassination. I'm thinking it's either that guy we hear talking with Bill in ACB, or someone we have yet to meet. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Holy sh*t, I just remembered something. Do you guys remember the e-mails from ACB? Shaun jokingly says that Rebecca is a templar. And since Lucy's password (Juno...) was a nice little foreshadowing, what if this is a foreshadowing as well?

It could be possible that Rebecca has been sending information to Abstergo about the Animus-sessions with Desmond all this time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No. I really doubt that.

LieutenantJojo
11-25-2011, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LieutenantJojo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RzaRecta357:
People thinking Juno is evil because of her attitude in ACB are wrong I think. She was one of the three that were looked up to in her society. Statues and what have you.

So, we have Shawn and Rebecca whom seem to good personality wise and what not. Then we have Desmonds dad whom we know NOTHING about and a dead lucy.

So, who's the mole?

Daniel seen all time as one and knows what he needs to do. I'm sure he killed the mentor and went back to abstergo on purpose to further the assassin gain in the long run.
Well it's not Desmond's dad since he's the target of assassination. I'm thinking it's either that guy we hear talking with Bill in ACB, or someone we have yet to meet. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Holy sh*t, I just remembered something. Do you guys remember the e-mails from ACB? Shaun jokingly says that Rebecca is a templar. And since Lucy's password (Juno...) was a nice little foreshadowing, what if this is a foreshadowing as well?

It could be possible that Rebecca has been sending information to Abstergo about the Animus-sessions with Desmond all this time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No. I really doubt that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh please, do tell me why you doubt this. Assassin's Creed is all about complete mind f*ck, from beginning to end. Why couldn't this be considerable?

LightRey
11-25-2011, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by LieutenantJojo:
Oh please, do tell me why you doubt this. Assassin's Creed is all about complete mind f*ck, from beginning to end. Why couldn't this be considerable?
because she had every opportunity to kill William Miles for instance.

Assassin_M
11-25-2011, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LieutenantJojo:
Oh please, do tell me why you doubt this. Assassin's Creed is all about complete mind f*ck, from beginning to end. Why couldn't this be considerable?
because she had every opportunity to kill William Miles for instance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yea, like when she was standing right next to him for instance, or when they were alone at the airport..
OOOOOr maybe Ubisoft doesnt want her to kill him right now..

xx-pyro
11-25-2011, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LieutenantJojo:
Oh please, do tell me why you doubt this. Assassin's Creed is all about complete mind f*ck, from beginning to end. Why couldn't this be considerable?
because she had every opportunity to kill William Miles for instance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Killing William Miles is less important than finding the PoE's/Grand Temple, hence why their mole hasn't killed anyone yet. The mole is said to be the most useful one (more useful than cross, who put the Assassin order into irreparable harm), killing William M. wouldn't make a mole the most useful one in history (is William even the Mentor?)

Either way, Rebbecca, Shaun, and Lucy are the 3 most likely candidates, besides Desmond himself. I'm leaning towards Lucy myself but I don't know for certain.

Assassin_M
11-25-2011, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by xx-pyro:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LieutenantJojo:
Oh please, do tell me why you doubt this. Assassin's Creed is all about complete mind f*ck, from beginning to end. Why couldn't this be considerable?
because she had every opportunity to kill William Miles for instance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Killing William Miles is less important than finding the PoE's/Grand Temple, hence why their mole hasn't killed anyone yet. The mole is said to be the most useful one (more useful than cross, who put the Assassin order into irreparable harm), killing William M. wouldn't make a mole the most useful one in history (is William even the Mentor?)

Either way, Rebbecca, Shaun, and Lucy are the 3 most likely candidates, besides Desmond himself. I'm leaning towards Lucy myself but I don't know for certain. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
If it were Lucy then i dont think she`d be the templar`s best mole..

LightRey
11-25-2011, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by xx-pyro:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LieutenantJojo:
Oh please, do tell me why you doubt this. Assassin's Creed is all about complete mind f*ck, from beginning to end. Why couldn't this be considerable?
because she had every opportunity to kill William Miles for instance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Killing William Miles is less important than finding the PoE's/Grand Temple, hence why their mole hasn't killed anyone yet. The mole is said to be the most useful one (more useful than cross, who put the Assassin order into irreparable harm), killing William M. wouldn't make a mole the most useful one in history (is William even the Mentor?)

Either way, Rebbecca, Shaun, and Lucy are the 3 most likely candidates, besides Desmond himself. I'm leaning towards Lucy myself but I don't know for certain. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Lucy wasn't a spy because she broke out Desmond, Rebecca isn't a spy because she built the damn animus 2.0 for the assassins, Shaun isn't a spy because he already knows where most teams are and what they're doing (meaning they'd already have been dead if he were the spy) and William is not a spy because he's a target. The only reason those people are your top candidates is because they're the only assassins we know in the modern day story besides Desmond.

xx-pyro
11-25-2011, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xx-pyro:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LieutenantJojo:
Oh please, do tell me why you doubt this. Assassin's Creed is all about complete mind f*ck, from beginning to end. Why couldn't this be considerable?
because she had every opportunity to kill William Miles for instance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Killing William Miles is less important than finding the PoE's/Grand Temple, hence why their mole hasn't killed anyone yet. The mole is said to be the most useful one (more useful than cross, who put the Assassin order into irreparable harm), killing William M. wouldn't make a mole the most useful one in history (is William even the Mentor?)

Either way, Rebbecca, Shaun, and Lucy are the 3 most likely candidates, besides Desmond himself. I'm leaning towards Lucy myself but I don't know for certain. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Lucy wasn't a spy because she broke out Desmond, Rebecca isn't a spy because she built the damn animus 2.0 for the assassins, Shaun isn't a spy because he already knows where most teams are and what they're doing (meaning they'd already have been dead if he were the spy) and William is not a spy because he's a target. The only reason those people are your top candidates is because they're the only assassins we know in the modern day story besides Desmond. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's pretty flawed logic, a spy doesn't prance around and do nothing for the Assassins, if they are useful we can infer that they are important to the Assassins. I agree about William M, so no argument there. That leaves Lucy, Shaun, Rebbecca, and of course Desmond. For the sake or argument, I'll assume it isn't Desmond. Breaking Desmond out of Abstergo wasn't exactly too hard for Lucy was it? Not to mention that the Templars took awhile in AC2 to find their hideout, while in ACB they always seemed to be super rushed and afraid (which leads me to believe that the Templars may not have even given chase). Lucy could have just been a tool use to convince Desmond that he was safe if not with trustworthy people, so he didn't kill himself beforE Abstergo found the apple. After he found the Apple, Abstergo also wanted the location of the Grand Temple (which they didn't have.) They clearly have the location now, as they are sending a team to assassinate William Miles. From what I understand, that leaves Rebbecca or Shaun as culprits (since Lucy is dead).

Rebbecca building the Animus 2.0 --> "I have more passion," people buy that?

Shaun knowing where other teams are is also a terrible argument against him being a possibly spy. If he got all those teams killed he would be singled out and killed by the Assassins- again Desmond is more of a prize than some random assassins to the Templars.

LightRey
11-25-2011, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by xx-pyro:
That's pretty flawed logic, a spy doesn't prance around and do nothing for the Assassins, if they are useful we can infer that they are important to the Assassins. I agree about William M, so no argument there. That leaves Lucy, Shaun, Rebbecca, and of course Desmond. For the sake or argument, I'll assume it isn't Desmond. Breaking Desmond out of Abstergo wasn't exactly too hard for Lucy was it? Not to mention that the Templars took awhile in AC2 to find their hideout, while in ACB they always seemed to be super rushed and afraid (which leads me to believe that the Templars may not have even given chase). Lucy could have just been a tool use to convince Desmond that he was safe if not with trustworthy people, so he didn't kill himself beforE Abstergo found the apple. After he found the Apple, Abstergo also wanted the location of the Grand Temple (which they didn't have.) They clearly have the location now, as they are sending a team to assassinate William Miles. From what I understand, that leaves Rebbecca or Shaun as culprits (since Lucy is dead).

Rebbecca building the Animus 2.0 --> "I have more passion," people buy that?

Shaun knowing where other teams are is also a terrible argument against him being a possibly spy. If he got all those teams killed he would be singled out and killed by the Assassins- again Desmond is more of a prize than some random assassins to the Templars.
That would make sense were it not that the Templars had nothing to gain and a lot to lose from letting Desmond go or letting the assassins have an animus. Shaun is obviously not a spy, because else the teams that were collecting the PoE's before the Templars would have failed (they really wouldn't allow that). They didn't have to die, just fail or have trouble. He wouldn't be singled out because the Templars have been way ahead on almost every front from the very beginning. Them being killed or failing really wouldn't cause much surprise. In fact, it's surprising they're having relatively much success. Of course Bill is a top target, so that really rules him out.

The Templars could and would have used Desmond to find the Grand Temple or anything else for that matter. They had way too much to lose from having him escape Abstergo and there's also the fact that they tried to get to him and he killed a few dozen of their agents together with Lucy no less.

Allowing Rebecca to build an animus would have been an even more stupid thing to do. It's an Animus for Christs sake. The fact that it was so hard to even be able to make it would have made for a more than reasonable excuse for it to fail. She didn't have to succeed for the Assassins and yet she did, causing the Templars more harm than good (no good in fact).

Good spies don't stand out. They don't help the enemy significantly and even if they seem to do so it's actually a scam.

But what's really stupid about all this is that the only real reason any of these people are suspects is the fact that they're the only Assassin's in the Modern Day story that we know of, which is just a ridiculous basis for such suspicion.

kudos17
11-25-2011, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xx-pyro:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LieutenantJojo:
Oh please, do tell me why you doubt this. Assassin's Creed is all about complete mind f*ck, from beginning to end. Why couldn't this be considerable?
because she had every opportunity to kill William Miles for instance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Killing William Miles is less important than finding the PoE's/Grand Temple, hence why their mole hasn't killed anyone yet. The mole is said to be the most useful one (more useful than cross, who put the Assassin order into irreparable harm), killing William M. wouldn't make a mole the most useful one in history (is William even the Mentor?)

Either way, Rebbecca, Shaun, and Lucy are the 3 most likely candidates, besides Desmond himself. I'm leaning towards Lucy myself but I don't know for certain. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Lucy wasn't a spy because she broke out Desmond, Rebecca isn't a spy because she built the damn animus 2.0 for the assassins, Shaun isn't a spy because he already knows where most teams are and what they're doing (meaning they'd already have been dead if he were the spy) and William is not a spy because he's a target. The only reason those people are your top candidates is because they're the only assassins we know in the modern day story besides Desmond. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Spies, especially good ones, keep you guessing. They do EVERYTHING in their power to fool you, even to the extent of helping you. Now I'm not saying that anyone on Desmond's team was a spy (nor do I believe such a thing), but if there was one, it would be Lucy.

Why would Abstergo want Desmond to escape? Maybe they didn't. Maybe Lucy took a risk by being a sort of double-agent, and going against procedure to find the PoE's. Maybe, on that notion, the Templars had a guess that only some could "unlock" those PoE's, someone with a genetic code like Desmond. Lucy would fool the Desmond into helping them, while really just setting himself up for the Templars.

On that assumption, why would Abstergo not simply find the PoE, then force Desmond to unlock them? It wouldn't be natural. The way it is now, he WANTS to help and doesn't think he is being watched too intently - therefore, he is less likely to hold back in his search.

Far-fetched and lacking strong argument details, but it's there. I personally don't think Lucy was a Templar, but I definitely think there was more to her we need to know. I'm just saying, don't scratch anyone off the list yet. Ubisoft could still throw some curve-balls.

xx-pyro
11-25-2011, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xx-pyro:
That's pretty flawed logic, a spy doesn't prance around and do nothing for the Assassins, if they are useful we can infer that they are important to the Assassins. I agree about William M, so no argument there. That leaves Lucy, Shaun, Rebbecca, and of course Desmond. For the sake or argument, I'll assume it isn't Desmond. Breaking Desmond out of Abstergo wasn't exactly too hard for Lucy was it? Not to mention that the Templars took awhile in AC2 to find their hideout, while in ACB they always seemed to be super rushed and afraid (which leads me to believe that the Templars may not have even given chase). Lucy could have just been a tool use to convince Desmond that he was safe if not with trustworthy people, so he didn't kill himself beforE Abstergo found the apple. After he found the Apple, Abstergo also wanted the location of the Grand Temple (which they didn't have.) They clearly have the location now, as they are sending a team to assassinate William Miles. From what I understand, that leaves Rebbecca or Shaun as culprits (since Lucy is dead).

Rebbecca building the Animus 2.0 --> "I have more passion," people buy that?

Shaun knowing where other teams are is also a terrible argument against him being a possibly spy. If he got all those teams killed he would be singled out and killed by the Assassins- again Desmond is more of a prize than some random assassins to the Templars.
That would make sense were it not that the Templars had nothing to gain and a lot to lose from letting Desmond go or letting the assassins have an animus. Shaun is obviously not a spy, because else the teams that were collecting the PoE's before the Templars would have failed (they really wouldn't allow that). They didn't have to die, just fail or have trouble. He wouldn't be singled out because the Templars have been way ahead on almost every front from the very beginning. Them being killed or failing really wouldn't cause much surprise. In fact, it's surprising they're having relatively much success. Of course Bill is a top target, so that really rules him out.

The Templars could and would have used Desmond to find the Grand Temple or anything else for that matter. They had way too much to lose from having him escape Abstergo and there's also the fact that they tried to get to him and he killed a few dozen of their agents together with Lucy no less.

Allowing Rebecca to build an animus would have been an even more stupid thing to do. It's an Animus for Christs sake. The fact that it was so hard to even be able to make it would have made for a more than reasonable excuse for it to fail. She didn't have to succeed for the Assassins and yet she did, causing the Templars more harm than good (no good in fact).

Good spies don't stand out. They don't help the enemy significantly and even if they seem to do so it's actually a scam.

But what's really stupid about all this is that the only real reason any of these people are suspects is the fact that they're the only Assassin's in the Modern Day story that we know of, which is just a ridiculous basis for such suspicion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know you've finished the game, but for those who haven't below contains endgame and MP spoilers.

<span class="ev_code_WHITE">
Firstly, they are the only characters we can speculate about, it's not a ridiculous basis. As for Lucy, Desmond clearly has an epiphany at the end of AC1/beginning of AC2 where he wants to fight the Templars. Subject 16 KILLED himself, and in that way became useless to the Templars. Desmond killing himself would steal from the Templars everything they could possibly hope to gain, so they could have let Lucy break him free so he felt secure and confident that he could help fight against them. And where's the logic in introducing a new very major character in AC3 (to the modern day storyline?) The things the Templars want most are Ezio's/an Apple of Eden as well as the location of the Grand Temple. Daniel Cross, at the end of AC Multiplayer, is placed on the team sent to kill William Miles. Explain to me how the Templars learned of their whereabouts almost as soon as the Assassins themselves arrived? I'm under the impression that the only ones who have knowledge of their whereabouts are themselves, meaning Desmond (who was in a coma and couldn't have helped the Templars,) William Miles (who has already been ruled out,) Rebbecca, and Shaun. Lucy being dead, isn't a factor in this particular explanation.
</span>

LightRey
11-25-2011, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by kudos17:
Spies, especially good ones, keep you guessing. They do EVERYTHING in their power to fool you, even to the extent of helping you. Now I'm not saying that anyone on Desmond's team was a spy (nor do I believe such a thing), but if there was one, it would be Lucy.

Why would Abstergo want Desmond to escape? Maybe they didn't. Maybe Lucy took a risk by being a sort of double-agent, and going against procedure to find the PoE's. Maybe, on that notion, the Templars had a guess that only some could "unlock" those PoE's, someone with a genetic code like Desmond. Lucy would fool the Desmond into helping them, while really just setting himself up for the Templars.

On that assumption, why would Abstergo not simply find the PoE, then force Desmond to unlock them? It wouldn't be natural. The way it is now, he WANTS to help and doesn't think he is being watched too intently - therefore, he is less likely to hold back in his search.

Far-fetched and lacking strong argument details, but it's there. I personally don't think Lucy was a Templar, but I definitely think there was more to her we need to know. I'm just saying, don't scratch anyone off the list yet. Ubisoft could still throw some curve-balls.
No, good spies accomplish their mission and make sure their enemies don't find out until it's too late. They don't have to keep their enemies fooled, just long enough until they've accomplished their goals.

Now tell me, if any of these people were a spy, what would their goal be? It can't be finding the Grand Temple, because they could've simply used Desmond for that, assuming they'd even know that Desmond could access that kind of information and besides they didn't need the Grand Temple for their plans to begin with.

The thing is, the Templars want absolutely nothing from the Assassins other than their demise. They already have the locations of the PoE's and that's all they need. They don't need any more information and they're not stupid enough to risk everything just for some extras they don't even need. They just want to rid themselves of the Assassins before they get the chance to mess everything up, which they're already quite busy with and thanks to Lucy and Desmond's info, which was spread and partially obtained thanks to both Rebecca and Shaun, the Templars are now at serious risk of having their plans fail.

If any of these people really is/was a Templar spy, then it's the worst spy in the history of man, because if any of these people hadn't been there doing what only they really could, the Templar plans wouldn't be at as much risk as they are now.

xx-pyro
11-25-2011, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kudos17:
Spies, especially good ones, keep you guessing. They do EVERYTHING in their power to fool you, even to the extent of helping you. Now I'm not saying that anyone on Desmond's team was a spy (nor do I believe such a thing), but if there was one, it would be Lucy.

Why would Abstergo want Desmond to escape? Maybe they didn't. Maybe Lucy took a risk by being a sort of double-agent, and going against procedure to find the PoE's. Maybe, on that notion, the Templars had a guess that only some could "unlock" those PoE's, someone with a genetic code like Desmond. Lucy would fool the Desmond into helping them, while really just setting himself up for the Templars.

On that assumption, why would Abstergo not simply find the PoE, then force Desmond to unlock them? It wouldn't be natural. The way it is now, he WANTS to help and doesn't think he is being watched too intently - therefore, he is less likely to hold back in his search.

Far-fetched and lacking strong argument details, but it's there. I personally don't think Lucy was a Templar, but I definitely think there was more to her we need to know. I'm just saying, don't scratch anyone off the list yet. Ubisoft could still throw some curve-balls.
No, good spies accomplish their mission and make sure their enemies don't find out until it's too late. They don't have to keep their enemies fooled, just long enough until they've accomplished their goals.

Now tell me, if any of these people were a spy, what would their goal be? It can't be finding the Grand Temple, because they could've simply used Desmond for that, assuming they'd even know that Desmond could access that kind of information and besides they didn't need the Grand Temple for their plans to begin with.

The thing is, the Templars want absolutely nothing from the Assassins other than their demise. They already have the locations of the PoE's and that's all they need. They don't need any more information and they're not stupid enough to risk everything just for some extras they don't even need. They just want to rid themselves of the Assassins before they get the chance to mess everything up, which they're already quite busy with and thanks to Lucy and Desmond's info, which was spread and partially obtained thanks to both Rebecca and Shaun, the Templars are now at serious risk of having their plans fail.

If any of these people really is/was a Templar spy, then it's the worst spy in the history of man, because if any of these people hadn't been there doing what only they really could, the Templar plans wouldn't be at as much risk as they are now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If Juno didn't have Lucy killed, she could still have ample time to kill every member of the team and take the Apple Desmond found to Abstergo. I still don't see the logic behind having someone so far unrelated to the plot labelled as their "best" mole. If ruining the Assassin order gets you 2nd place, what mole can do better than that if they aren't close to the Templars biggest liability- Desmond?

LightRey
11-25-2011, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by xx-pyro:
If Juno didn't have Lucy killed, she could still have ample time to kill every member of the team and take the Apple Desmond found to Abstergo. I still don't see the logic behind having someone so far unrelated to the plot labelled as their "best" mole. If ruining the Assassin order gets you 2nd place, what mole can do better than that if they aren't close to the Templars biggest liability- Desmond?
And why exactly would the templars want Lucy to let Desmond escape to find a random PoE if they had a whole list of PoE's?

blazefp
11-26-2011, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xx-pyro:
If Juno didn't have Lucy killed, she could still have ample time to kill every member of the team and take the Apple Desmond found to Abstergo. I still don't see the logic behind having someone so far unrelated to the plot labelled as their "best" mole. If ruining the Assassin order gets you 2nd place, what mole can do better than that if they aren't close to the Templars biggest liability- Desmond?
And why exactly would the templars want Lucy to let Desmond escape to find a random PoE if they had a whole list of PoE's? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not just that. We're looking for the #1 spy of the whole templar history. Why would Lucy be that one? Daniel's done a lot more than she did.

LightRey
11-26-2011, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by blazefp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xx-pyro:
If Juno didn't have Lucy killed, she could still have ample time to kill every member of the team and take the Apple Desmond found to Abstergo. I still don't see the logic behind having someone so far unrelated to the plot labelled as their "best" mole. If ruining the Assassin order gets you 2nd place, what mole can do better than that if they aren't close to the Templars biggest liability- Desmond?
And why exactly would the templars want Lucy to let Desmond escape to find a random PoE if they had a whole list of PoE's? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not just that. We're looking for the #1 spy of the whole templar history. Why would Lucy be that one? Daniel's done a lot more than she did. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Very true. Do we even know if said spy is even undercover right now? What if said spy had already done their job? What if they were speaking in the context of all Templar spies throughout history?

blazefp
11-26-2011, 09:57 AM
Is Daniel still in duty?

LightRey
11-26-2011, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by blazefp:
Is Daniel still in duty?
Apparently. He's in that video after all.

gamertam
11-26-2011, 12:01 PM
An intriguing topic of discussion Assassins. So what now? would all mole and spy /how about traitor even eventually gets beheaded or assassinate from here on out?. Furthermore, have any of you senior members thought about this subject yet...aa traitor?

me personally...if i like something i'll stick around a bit more (side or no side) it's doesn't matter to me at all. In fact i'm don't particully (spelling) care really. I got nothing to gain for being on Assassin's Creed side or the Templars. IDK, maybe i haven't being around long enough yet to have a definitive decision.

Since i'm still posting on this forum, although not as much it should tell you something about my character.

LightRey
11-26-2011, 12:10 PM
Btw, didn't one of the Assassin teams out there teams have a mole?

RzaRecta357
11-26-2011, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
Btw, didn't one of the Assassin teams out there teams have a mole?

I think I remember Shaun or Lucy saying something like that.

I don't even think Lucy is a spy. But she DID disappear for an entire sequence. They know die hards come back every sequence to check for stuff. Just like you can miss Shaun yelling at William about Desmond maybe being a sleeper like Daniel on animus island.

She WAS gone for like 10 years before reuniting with them. Warren DID save her (I don't know if the templars sent the guys on purpose and then Warren saved her just because.)

Did he save her? She seems capable of protecting herself. If she thought she was going to die...she'd of just murdered them. But she let herself get almost killed before Warren saved her.

More like she lied to Desmond on that story.


But I'm just saying this for the sake of saying it as it crossed my mind. I don't even believe it.

I personally believe they'll find a way to bring her back to life some how as you don't just off a character The departed style like that in a video game especially if they were falling in love.

They even dig it in deeper with Shaun saying Lucy said she liked Desmond. Which I just remembered and kind of contradicts all Lucy templar claims in a way.

dxsxhxcx
11-26-2011, 01:48 PM
I didn't read all the posts so I don't know if this was already mentioned, but what if the mole they talked about isn't from the present (modern days)? Maybe we'll find out about this mole in AC3, who knows, the Templar/Assassin orders are very old... No matter who he/she might be it seems this mole caused more trouble than Daniel, now I'm curious.. lol

first thing that comes to my mind: the cross darkens the horizon... :P

off-topic: there are videos showing the story parts of multiplayer on Youtube (or at least an article on wiki talking about them)?! when I try to search for them I only find interviews and videos talking about them...

LightRey
11-26-2011, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by dxsxhxcx:
I didn't read all the posts so I don't know if this was already mentioned, but what if the mole they talked about isn't from the present (modern days)? Maybe we'll find out about this mole in AC3, who knows, the Templar/Assassin orders are very old... No matter who he/she might be it seems this mole caused more trouble than Daniel, now I'm curious.. lol

first thing that comes to my mind: the cross darkens the horizon... :P

off-topic: there are videos showing the story parts of multiplayer on Youtube (or at least an article on wiki talking about them)?! when I try to search for them I only find interviews and videos talking about them...
I made the same suggestion. I would also like to see the movies for myself to put this theory a little more to the test.

Keshishian6l6
11-26-2011, 07:02 PM
Here are most of the videos http://www.youtube.com/user/lnYaDreamz

kudos17
11-26-2011, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by RzaRecta357:
Just like you can miss Shaun yelling at William about Desmond maybe being a sleeper like Daniel on animus island.

Really? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

I need to hear that! I kept thinking the whole game: "Why the hell are Rebecca and Shaun not seriously examining Desmond's loyalty?"

I was hoping the whole time I'd hear a massive argument between a skeptical Shaun, angry with Lucy's apparent death, and another "Desmond-defender", so to speak.

That said, they were obviously very occupied with everything happening at once.

InfamousQ1987
11-27-2011, 12:59 AM
Originally posted by Assassin_M:
DESMOND MILES http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

I think desmond may be a sleeper agent! Shaun even mentioned the possibility of desmond being a templar

Madman6884
11-27-2011, 02:42 AM
I dunno, tough call really. I'd be inclined to believe Lucy because of the events that already transpired, but she wouldn't really be able to convey William's current location from the position of supposedly being dead. Note that they never said that the same mole was the one who provided the information on William's location.

If that's not the case I hope the mole reference isn't speaking about current times, but some past figure and they were able to figure out their location due to them chartering a jet. If it was a risk for them to leave Italy why wouldn't taking a jet to another continent be obvious?

If the mole really is one of them though, I'd lean towards Shaun the most. You know what they say, the guilty party is always the first to throw around accusations.
Rebecca is also a possibility obviously but there have been no real indicators of it either way.


Now, I know it's off topic but it's similar subject matter. Daniel working for the Templars...he could be a double agent. Obviously being a sleeper cell and killing the Mentor was a big deal, but when he spent more time in the animus he could have inadvertently reached synch nexus and his brain sorted itself out, so he took advantage of the situation and turned double agent within the organization. No contact with the Assassins necessarily but you never know...Erudito mayhaps?
I dunno, nothing concrete to back that up, just an idea of another possibility.

Steww-
11-27-2011, 03:42 AM
I really don't see it being Lucy. However, she has a few mysteries surrounding her. We know she was trained by William, and I'm amazed she never mentioned this to Desmond.

It can't be Desmond, for obvious reasons. Shaun made an attempt at exposing Abstergo, which ended up with him joining the Assassins. Also during that event, Rebecca saved Shaun from them.
One strange thing is that the Templar's have knowledge of the animus 2.0, as a picture of it appears in File0.08\Prj_Animus .

Are all the dossiers available to read on the internet yet? If they're not I'll happily type them up.

Madman6884
11-27-2011, 02:51 PM
Yeah I wondered about how they had that pic too. Either it means one of them is a mole and relayed the image, or more likely it was an oversight by whoever made that page in an attempt to include more images.

Do consider though that the event with Shaun being attacked may have been staged as a way to get an outsider into the group.

Either way I'm still more inclined to believe that the mole reference is historical and the reason they know William's location is because of them chartering a jet. If their surveillance is really so good that being outside a long time is a risk why wouldn't that stick out? If anything they knew the risk but took it because of the lack of time they had.