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View Full Version : de Havilland Hornet, the fastest production piston-engined fighter ever built...



MrBlueSky1960
07-01-2005, 11:16 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifAll we need now is for someone to start a project to make a Whirlwind... The Alpha-Omega Project

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v187/Secudus/Hornet01.jpg

Read in this months 'Aeroplane' The De Havilland Hornet Project (DHHP)Gave an update on the progress so far...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v187/Secudus/Hornet02.jpg

stathem
07-01-2005, 12:28 PM
It's a beaut...

Such a shame no-one thought at the time to put Merlins in the Whirlwind. We might not have heard so much about the **** Focke-Wulf if Merlin powered Whirlys were doing sweeps over France.

Although I'm a big Lanc fan, with the benefit of hindsight if they'd have thrown the weight of production into building a huge 'swarm' of Mosquitos I reckon it would have been far more effective.

Huckebein_UK
07-01-2005, 01:53 PM
Such a beautiful, elegant bird....

They did consider fitting Merlins to the Whirlwind, but the airframe wasn't strong enough to handle them. It would have required extensive redesign of the Whirlwind's airframe, so the idea was scrapped. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Secudus2004
07-01-2005, 02:05 PM
It's a funny thing but at the begining of the War, the Whirly was not liked by the Ministry and was left to fall into oblivion... But come the end the Hornet had many of the features of it's then elderly sibling and was a total sucess...

It started with the Whirlwind - And finished with the Hornet - The fastest of them all http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Oh http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif and Capt.Eric Brown pictured above at the start of his career in 42 flew a Whirlwind and wrote about his flight in the second of his books - Wings of the Weird and Wonderful Vol.2' He said of the Whirlwind; " thye Whirlwind could be said to be a contradiction of the dictum that "if it looks good it should fly good". Certainly I must confess to profound disappointment at its handling qualities..."

Somewhat at odds to all the pilots that flew them every day and on whose handling they depended... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

p1ngu666
07-01-2005, 02:12 PM
i saw the concreate mold at the mossie museum for teh hornet, such a shame no one saved one http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

still i highly recommend you goto the musuem, is really cool http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Slickun
07-01-2005, 02:37 PM
Fastest "piston engined" OK.

But fastest PROP?

Saw a "Wings" episode once about the F-84. They made one version with a prop to see if it could break the speed of sound. The prop tips went supersonic, causing massive noise.

it didn't go supersonic, btw, but it went really fast.

Badsight.
07-01-2005, 03:06 PM
ok , so how fast could the Hornet go then ?

Secudus2004
07-01-2005, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by Badsight.:
ok , so how fast could the Hornet go then ?

Oh, you asked for this... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Faster than any piston-engined fighter ever built... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

p1ngu666
07-01-2005, 03:35 PM
470mph+ i think

was faster than spitfire 22 at all heights and better climb too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

handled very well too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Low_Flyer_MkII
07-01-2005, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
470mph+ i think

was faster than spitfire 22 at all heights and better climb too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

handled very well too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

He's right, you know http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Skarphol
07-01-2005, 03:59 PM
The fastest standard production prop-plane is AFAIK the Tu-95 Bear with its 8 contra-rotating propellors. A quick Google on the subjects gives top speed for that bomber in the 870 - 910 km/h, 572 mph. Quite impressive for a plane that first flew in 1952. It has turboprops though...

Skarphol

Skarphol
07-01-2005, 04:00 PM
Another thing: Was there ever developed a Griffon-engined Hornet or Sea Hornet?

Skarphol

Badsight.
07-01-2005, 04:18 PM
didnt the H Mustang go 411 Mph on the deck & 474 Mph at altitude ?

JadehawkII
07-01-2005, 04:37 PM
P-47J went 512MPH during test. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif but was not a production version. Bummer huh http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Blackdog5555
07-01-2005, 04:49 PM
According to aerospace.org the official highest speed record (piston Poswered) is held by a Grumman F8F Bearcat 528.33 mph Record was set on 21 August 1989.

or maybe for second place:

quote:
The Do-335 was one of a small group of aircraft marking the pinnacle of international
piston-engined development. It was the fastest production piston-engined fighter ever built, attaining 846 kilometers per hour (474 mph) in level flight at a time when the official world speed record was 755 kph (469 mph). Powered by two 1800-hp engines in a unique low-drag configuration and weighing 9600 kg (21,000 lb) loaded, it was an exceptional heavy fighter. This very innovative design also featured an ejection seat, for pilot safety, and a jettisoning fin

or:

uote:
The P-47M was, essentially, developed collaterally with the XP-47J. The "J" was fitted with a high output version of the P&W R-2800. Specifically, the R-2800-57. This engine made 2,800 hp @ 2,800 rpm at 35,000 feet. This is in War Emergency Power. The aircraft actually attained 507 mph at an altitude of 34,300 feet.

the Hornet prototype did 485mph...dont know about the production type figures.
The ole P47

vocatx
07-01-2005, 05:19 PM
According to "The Great Book of Fighters", Green and Swanborough, the DeHaviland HOrnet F mk. 3 reached 393 mph (632 km/h) at sea level and 472 mph (759 km/h) at 22,000 ft. (6,705 meters). The initial rate of climb was 4,650 ft. per minute and it had a range of 2,600 miles. In other words, that thing could flat haul the mail!

Too bad it didn't make it in time to see service in WWII. The Mossie did enough damage to the enemy. Think what a couple of wings of Hornets could have done.

Badsight.
07-01-2005, 05:35 PM
vocatx , if thats the case then it was no faster than the P-51 H Mustang

Aaron_GT
07-01-2005, 05:48 PM
The hornet wasn't the fastest piston engined plane in WW2, but it was one of the fastest.

bolillo_loco
07-01-2005, 05:49 PM
look at the wind screen, now see how far over the nose the pilot could see???? imagine the deflection shots you could make in that thing!

Aaron_GT
07-01-2005, 05:51 PM
P.S. At some points in the war the Mossquito was narrowly the fastest Allied production piston engined aircraft flying at altitude but this advantage was soon lost in late 1943. The NF. 30 still managed a pretty respectable maximum of 425, though.

Aaron_GT
07-01-2005, 05:52 PM
look at the wind screen, now see how far over the nose the pilot could see???? imagine the deflection shots you could make in that thing!

Imagine what you could have done with a racing version - semi reclining seat, lower canopy, souped up engines...

lrrp22
07-01-2005, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by Badsight.:
didnt the H Mustang go 411 Mph on the deck & 474 Mph at altitude ?

P-51H: 424 mph at SL, 487 mph at 25,000 ft.


.

MrBlueSky1960
07-02-2005, 02:28 AM
Specs of the P-51H-5-NA:

One Packard Merlin V-1650-9 twelve-cylinder Vee liquid cooled engine rated at 1380 hp for takeoff and a a war emergency power of 2218 hp at 10,200 feet and 1900 hp at 20,000 feet with water injection. Performance: Maximum speed was 444 mph at 5000 feet, 463 mph at 15,000 feet, and 487 mph at 25,000 feet. Range in clean condition was 755 miles at 359 mph at 10,000 feet, 1975 miles at 239 mph at 10,000 feet. Range with two 62.5 Imp. gall. drop tanks was 1150 miles at 339 mph at 10,000 feet and 1530 miles at 243 mph at 10,000 feet. An altitude of 5000 feet could be reached in 1.5 minutes, 15,000 feet in 5 minutes. Service ceiling was 41,600 feet. Weights: 6585 pounds empty, 9500 pounds normal loaded, and 11,500 pounds maximum. Dimensions: Wing span was 37 feet 0 inches, length was 33 feet 4 inches, height was 8 feet 10 inches, and wing area was 235 square feet.

Hmmm... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif Looks like on paper, she's a sure winner! (That€s if we can believe the numbers, we all know how the Americans love to, shall we say, stretch the truth sometimes...) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif I'm joking; I€m joking€¦ Stay calm every one! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif) Shame she ended up in Alaska though.

Just what was the Aeroplane thinking, saying things like that?

Regards

MrBlueSky. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

WWBrian
07-02-2005, 05:08 AM
Fastest PISTON ENGINE though...

...is still Rare Bear!

The Rare Bear is a World War II era Grumman F8F Bearcat. It has been restored, substantially modified and equipped with a Wright R3350 engine producing in excess of 4000 horsepower. This has allowed the Rare Bear to establish the Closed Course World Speed Record (528.3 mph) and 3000 Meter Time-To-Climb Record (91.9 seconds).

She's a beauty to watch at Reno too! Third week of September! Go if you ever have the chance! The sounds and smells are simply amazing!

~S!~

Badsight.
07-02-2005, 05:58 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/Badsight/Rearbear2v2.jpg

has very little to do with a 1940's USN F8F anymore

WWBrian
07-02-2005, 06:24 AM
Originally posted by Badsight.:


has very little to do with a 1940's USN F8F anymore


Bah! You're just cranky cuz' it's faster than your Mustang. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But no denying, it is far from the late 40s version...here's some comparisons:

Stock Bearcat -Rare Bear

Weight, Lbs. - 9000 -8500
Wing Span, ft. 35 - 30.5
Flaps :Yes - No
Oil Consumption 0.5-5 gph - High
MPH, Closed Course 330mph - 490mph
Top Speed @ 5000 ft. 370mph - 540mph
Final Approach, Knots - 85kph - 120kph
Touchdown, Knots 65kph - 110kph
Engine: P&W R-2800 - Wright R-3350
Max HP 2400 - 4000+
RPM: 2800 - 2900+
Boost Systems: ADI, Water Inj. - ADI, Water Inj. & NOx
Propeller 13.5 ft. dia. Aeroproduct - P3 Orion Ham-Std.
Fuel Consumption: 300 gph @ 370 mph - 600 gph @ 540 mph
Tailhook Yes - No
Fuel Capacity, Gallons 180 -180
Oil Capacity, Gallons 40 - 40
Armament 4x50 Cal. - none

Aaron_GT
07-02-2005, 07:08 AM
substantially modified

Here's the important part.

Let's imagine what a Hornet, if any survived, could do if modified and reterofitted with a pair of those 5000 hp Napier engines...

p1ngu666
07-02-2005, 08:10 AM
Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">substantially modified

Here's the important part.

Let's imagine what a Hornet, if any survived, could do if modified and reterofitted with a pair of those 5000 hp Napier engines... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

hornet is probably fastest piston engined prop tobe used in action, certainly among the fastest props about.

and with contra props ah la p38, napier would feel abliged to eak out even more power http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

the heston racer was probably the fastest prop plane bulit

Aaron_GT
07-02-2005, 01:22 PM
hornet is probably fastest piston engined prop tobe used in action, certainly among the fastest props about.

It is true that, unlike the P51-H, the Hornet did see active service, although not in WW2, of course.

Secudus2004
07-02-2005, 01:40 PM
Produced too late in the war, the P-51H did not see combat. During the Berlin crisis and subsequent Berlin Airlift, the Air Force deployed P-51H's to the only direct front the USA had with the Soviet Union. "H" Mustangs were deployed to the harsh environment of Alaska to guard this distant frontier, but no conflict developed there. In addition, P-51H Mustangs served as long-range escort during the initial development of the new Strategic Air Command.
The developments of new jet aircraft would overshadow the "H", which stood along with the P-51D as the front line defense fighter during the transition to jets. By the 1950's, most P-51H's were delivered to the Air National Guard before once again, they were eventually replaced by jets in the mid fifties.
The outbreak of the Korean Conflict might have brought the "H" into combat, but several factors precluded the use of the type. The Air Force still had over 1400 P-51D's in service with the USAF, ANG, or in storage, along with a large number of trained and experienced maintenance and crew. The airfield conditions were similar to the rough conditions in Western Europe during the Second World War, and the "H" model's lighter landing gear and smaller tires were not designed for these conditions. The limited number of aircraft, and the scattered nature of it's deployment in the Air Force and ANG made assembling a cohesive, trained force of "H" Mustang pilots and crews difficult.

Aaron_GT
07-02-2005, 05:43 PM
The Hornet saw active service in Malaya in the 1950s as a fighter bomber, used against insurgents. This was after it had been declared obselete!

The Hornet construction used some cunning bonding of metal and wood in the construction.

JG5_UnKle
07-03-2005, 03:05 AM
3000 Meter Time-To-Climb Record (91.9 seconds)


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif Oh but for BnZ .... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif