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View Full Version : formation flying "when,what,how?"



qlc1
01-25-2008, 04:39 PM
gday.
im into a off line campain now that has promoted me to flight leader. i am losing a lot of ai planes in my squad to what i beleave to be dumb orders {my orders}
i love ground attack planes,ie il2-buefighter-a20 ect.
when my attacks go right,an airfield can be wiped out in minutes,but....
when this go wrong they go terribly wrong,planes crashing to the ground,planes circling the target without attacking,2nd wing more often than not heads for next way point and circles and the list goes on.
i think 1/2 my problem is to tight a formation when i attack.
then i asked myself,what is the best formation to use for ground attack?or anything for that matter.
any help would be great.

thefruitbat
01-25-2008, 05:06 PM
I think the main problem people have with the ai they command, is the simple fact that you have to have enabled, and use padlock, to be able to command the ai effectively.

I hate padlock, particuarly as i have track ir, but it is the only way you can designate targets to the ai. Using padlock and Shift ?'s voice commands there is much more flexibility than i thought possible for at least 4 years.

Get everyone doing the aa first, while you hang back. aa tends to lock on to one plane. Dont be this one while you order them to take out the aa.

Then reap the rewards and promotions from there bravery http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

cheers fruitbat

qlc1
01-26-2008, 03:22 AM
thanx fruitbat.
that works really well.
but i really wanna know what formations where flown in what situation.does anyone have any answers there?

Crash_Moses
01-26-2008, 07:29 AM
A lot of that depends on the type of bomber being flow, the kind of mission, and the airforce using it as they all had their own doctrines.

I did a quick forum search for 'bomber formations' and got quite a few hits. Didn't sit and read through them all but it looked like some good info.

You could also try Google. Try keywords like SBD bombing formation or PBJ skip bombing formations (just examples).

I have a ton of books with some pretty good diagrams but, of course, no scanner. A trip to the local library might turn up some really good info you could photocopy.

Aichi D3A1/2 Val by Peter Smith

Impact! The Dive Bomber Pilots Speak by Peter Smith

The First Team - Pacific Naval Air Combat from Pearl Harbor to Midway by John Lundstrom

The Dauntless Dive Bomber of World War Two by Barret Tillman

Shattered Sword - The Untold Story of the Battle of Midway by Parshall and Tully.

Masters of the Air by Donald Miller


And, of course, you could try the knowledge base over at www.Mission4today.com, (http://www.Mission4today.com,) as well as many of the other flight sim dedicated websites in Bearcat's Sturmovik Essentials. (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=51910959)

S!

SeaFireLIV
01-26-2008, 08:01 AM
I have learned to fly with an AI squad very effectively without Padlock.

My technique.

Once in range of target, say an airfield, I like to be in a wide Finger Four or VIC formation.

1. Select open Formation twice. this allows some leeway for you and the AI to manouever and less hits from flak. Also it gives everyone a new equal chance to be the Flak target.

2. My first order is Attack flak. Always. depending on skill, AI is pretty good at focusing on and taking out all flak. If the Flak focuses on me (as it might do being flight lead), then I`ll fly around above. this will give AI friendlies the chance to attack it without being hit. Try to be around 2500 metres or lower before making the call.

3. Once all or 95% of the Flak is down, then I`ll switch orders to trucks, tanks, whatever. With the Flak down, the rest of it is a breeze.

All this without padlock.

Sometimes, you may have one specific taregt that you need hitting, but the AI goes for the wrong one and then padlock can be useful to SPECIFY.

Kernow
01-26-2008, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by thefruitbat:
Get everyone doing the aa first, while you hang back. aa tends to lock on to one plane. Dont be this one while you order them to take out the aa.
Actually, I find you can be that one. You can use the AI gunners' behaviour against them. You go in first and they'll start targetting you. As soon as they open up make yourself as hard a target as possible, ie break away so as to put the flak on your wingtip at long range. Then orbit the flak position so that it stays on your wingtip - some jinking can only help too. You've now held the attention of the gunner and your wingmen can get a free run on that flak position, while you're making yourself the hardest possible target: long range, high deflection. The easiest possible target for the gunners is a zero deflection, close range shot of the sort you offer when you attack a flak position. So never do that yourself unless the flak has already engaged someone else.

Sturmoviks learned that the best position for the anti-flak flight was somewhere behind the leader. Flak would reveal its position when it opened up on the leading flight, allowing the flak suppression aircraft to get aligned with their targets. If you have more than one flight to command you can do just the same in game. Order flight 1 to go for some general target - so they don't fly straight at the flak - while ordering flight 2 to attack the flak, which will be engaging flight 1.

qlc1
01-26-2008, 02:58 PM
crash- thanx,im gonna google (38 year old,who still uses encyclopepias lol)
sea fire-you described pretty much what i do,but ive never loosend formation once let alone twice.
kernow-i always lead an attack if i lead the flight.i have found that if flak finds you on your run,aim low untill the last second,pop sights onto target lettum have it and fly away.i hardly ever get hit like this(though when i do it hurts lol)BUT...if i miss i am a garenteed gonner.
spreading my formation out might just work.it seems to me most of the time they are just avoiding each other and of course copping the blast from the rockets fired from the plane behind him.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif just thought then,i been leading a 6 plane raid on between 3 to 5 air fields(defended)cuttered together,destroying all defences and most of the stuff around,in tight formations http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif its amazing i ever brought home any of my squads ever lol