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ROXunreal
11-19-2009, 06:22 AM
Hello there. I'm not a spit pilot but recently it came to my mind that I know absolutely nothing about different spitfire models, their differences in performance, maneuverability, armament etc., which is kinda embarrassing since it's one of the largest airplane family in the game.

So, which spits are better, which are worse, and why?

Manu-6S
11-19-2009, 06:42 AM
Originally posted by ROXunreal:
Hello there. I'm not a spit pilot but recently it came to my mind that I know absolutely nothing about different spitfire models, their differences in performance, maneuverability, armament etc., which is kinda embarrassing since it's one of the largest airplane family in the game.

So, which spits are better, which are worse, and why?

Better in what?

Low altitude? (take the LFs)

High altitude? (take the HFs)

Defense, Offense, Escort?

Low_Flyer_MkIX
11-19-2009, 06:45 AM
Lots of info' here old chum:
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spittest.html

MkVb vs FW190 should be er, challenging. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Apart from seriously limited ammo', you should be able to hold your own against contemporary historical opponents. Good hunting!

IBTK

Manu-6S
11-19-2009, 06:47 AM
I advise you to look at IL2 Compare (don't use Hardball's tool)

IL2 Compare rules.

Anyway all depends on your fighting style: I would say that the faster is the better, since turning is a defensive manouvre and Spits still can kill using BnZ (as they did in reality... bounce, bounce, bounce)

beNdeR__
11-19-2009, 01:01 PM
the clipped-wing low-fliers (LF CW) are planes to reckon with at low altitudes. according to il-2 compare, it seems that you really need to be above 7500m or so for the high-fliers to really gain a speed advantage. I would think with these, you would need to set a hard deck of 6000 or 7000m, like with the P-47.

AndyJWest
11-19-2009, 02:09 PM
It's worth bearing in mind that Spits had their wings clipped to increase roll rate, rather than speed. The difference in speed at a given altitude has more to do with supercharger settings than with the wing area, at least at lower altitudes. I don't know at what height a clipped Spit would be out-turned by a standard one, but I'd think it would be lower than 6000-7000m. On this basis, I reckon that the standard wing is generally the better all-round performer. In IL-2 they seem to be a lot less prone to dropping a wing in a stall too...

DKoor
11-19-2009, 02:15 PM
I like Spitfire cannons.
Spit doesn't have much cannon ammo but hits hard.
I also prefer 2x.50cal to 4x.303cals.
As Spitfire is in many instances slower than its enemies it is an imperative to engage from superior position.
With other planes it is imperative to engage because of lack of maneuverability, with Spitfire it is lack of speed...
I myself don't have some preferred Spit model I only like .50cal in its armament (or better yet, 4xHispanos).

TinyTim
11-19-2009, 02:51 PM
Keep in mind the performance difference between LF and HF versions of the IX mark family is very small. With the V mark however it's huge. MkV-LFs are speed monsters at low alt, but useless above 4km.

Xiolablu3
11-19-2009, 03:38 PM
The MkIX is an extremely large increase in performance over the MkV models.

Always take a MkIX over a MkV if possible.

The LF's are 'Low altitude Fighters' the HF's are 'High altitude Fighters'.

Just remember it like this :-

Low Flyer
High Flyer.


There is really not much use in taking the HF's in the game, as even the Low Flyers perform very well up to about 5-6000m, and how often do fights go above this height online? Not very often.

The Mark 8 (mkVIII) is basically a cleaned up mark IX with more fuel and better range. But in the sim, the MKVIII and MKIX are very close as to be almost the same in performance.

You should try out the Spit, shes a great all-rounder. Strong points are phenomenal climb and very good horizontal turn. Anything you can't outrun you can out manouver in some way.

TS_Sancho
11-19-2009, 04:12 PM
Why no mention of the Spit XIV? The Griffon spitfires are tyranosaurs although their strengths are a bit of a departure from the virtues of their previous stable mates.

Frankthetank36
11-19-2009, 04:32 PM
^too bad the XIV isn't in the game

thefruitbat
11-19-2009, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by Frankthetank36:
^too bad the XIV isn't in the game

wrong.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/1911200923-50-39.jpg

please come again.

Frankthetank36
11-19-2009, 04:55 PM
What mod are you using? It definitely isn't in my stock 1946.

thefruitbat
11-19-2009, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by Frankthetank36:
What mod are you using? It definitely isn't in my stock 1946.

Its not in my stock install either, as isn't about half the game content now. That screenshot is from ultrapack 1.8, but its also in hsfx and ui1.2 as well, plus available as a 'single' mod.

Kurfurst__
11-19-2009, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by Frankthetank36:
^too bad the XIV isn't in the game

Its in the stock game, too, just take a Mk IX +25 and hang 1000 lbs bombs on it... there you go, Spit XIV..! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

thefruitbat
11-19-2009, 05:38 PM
meh! don't listen to him, lol, its a beast,

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/ScreenHunter_03Nov200039.jpg

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Frankthetank36
11-19-2009, 07:03 PM
Thing looks sick. Just because it has a five-bladed prop.

Does it sacrifice the handling of the Merlin Spitfires?

na85
11-19-2009, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by Frankthetank36:
Thing looks sick. Just because it has a five-bladed prop.

Does it sacrifice the handling of the Merlin Spitfires?

Compared to other spitfires it turns very poorly... but if you're doing TnB in a spit you're already defensive which means you made a mistake.

Manu-6S
11-20-2009, 01:46 AM
Originally posted by na85:
but if you're doing TnB in a spit you're already defensive which means you made a mistake.

+100000000

Faster is better... Who cares about turning ability.

Frankthetank36
11-20-2009, 07:12 AM
Everyone makes mistakes, turning ability is there to help you when you do. Besides, if you attack and they turn away, you can turn and chase them if you have superior turning capability, instead of just breaking off the attack and waiting like 5 more minutes for another pass.

Manu-6S
11-20-2009, 07:21 AM
Originally posted by Frankthetank36:
Everyone makes mistakes, turning ability is there to help you when you do. Besides, if you attack and they turn away, you can turn and chase them if you have superior turning capability, instead of just breaking off the attack and waiting like 5 more minutes for another pass.

If you make a mistake you dive away, you do not turn. If you turn against a good pilot he's always going to have the advantage (no so against noobs who will turn with you).

And If you turn to chase a enemy then you are spending energy and you are in position to become a prey for another bird.

The tactic is to watch the enemy first, to understand the right moment for you to hit him HARD and to return in a safe position.

JtD
11-20-2009, 07:41 AM
Originally posted by Manu-6S:

If you make a mistake you dive away, you do not turn...

Not an option if you get bounced while flying ground attack, really.

Manu-6S
11-20-2009, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by JtD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Manu-6S:

If you make a mistake you dive away, you do not turn...

Not an option if you get bounced while flying ground attack, really. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Yes, right! http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/gf-glomp.gif

Frankthetank36
11-20-2009, 01:28 PM
Eh? Last I checked if u get BnZ'd the best thing to do is to turn into the attack :/

Buzzsaw-
11-20-2009, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by na85:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Frankthetank36:
Thing looks sick. Just because it has a five-bladed prop.

Does it sacrifice the handling of the Merlin Spitfires?

Compared to other spitfires it turns very poorly... but if you're doing TnB in a spit you're already defensive which means you made a mistake. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is because the modded aircraft has a incorrectly done FM.

The real Spit XIV had a turn which was the same as a Spit IX. The mod aircraft has a turn time much slower.

From the AIR FIGHTING DEVELOPMENT UNIT's comparison of a Spit IX and Spit XIV:



TACTICAL COMPARISON WITH SPITFIRE IX

13. The tactical differences are caused chiefly by the fact that the Spitfire XIV has an engine of greater capacity and is the heavier aircraft (weighing 8,400 lbs. against 7,480 lbs. of Spitfire IX).

Range & Endurance
14. The Spitfire XIV, without a long-range tank, carries 110 gallons of fuel and 9 gallons of oil. When handled similarily, the Spitfire XIV uses fuel at about 1 1/4 times the rate of the Spitfire IX. Its endurance is therefore slightly less. Owing to its higher speed for corresponding engine settings, its range is about equal. For the same reasons, extra fuel carried in a long-range tank keeps its range about equal to that of the Spitfire IX, its endurance being slightly less.

Speeds
15. At all heights the Spitfire XIV is 30-35 mph faster in level flight. The best performance heights are similar, being just below 15,000 and between 25,000 and 32,000 ft.

Climb
16. The Spitfire XIV has a slightly better maximum climb than the Spitfire IX, having the best maximum rate of climb yet seen at this Unit. In the zoom climb the Spitfire XIV gains slightly all the way, especially if full throttle is used in the climb.

Dive
17. The Spitfire XIV will pull away from the Spitfire IX in a dive.

Turning Circle
18. The turning circles of both aircraft are identical. The Spitfire XIV appears to turn slightly better to port than it does to starbord. The warning of an approaching high speed stall is less pronounced in the case of the Spitfire Mk XIV.

Rate of Roll
19. Rate of roll is very much the same.

Search View and Rear View
20. The search view from the pilot's cockpit is good; the longer nose of the aircraft interferes with the all-round visibility, which remains the same as that of the Spitfire IX. Rear View is similar.

Sighting View and Fire Power
21. The sighting view is slightly better being 4 deg (140 m.p.h.) as against 3 1/3 deg. The two bulges at the side cause little restriction. The firepower is identical with the Spitfire IX.

Armour
22. As for the Spitfire IX

Conclusions
23. The all-round performance of the Spitfire XIV is better than the Spitfire IX at all heights. In level flight it is 25-35 m.p.h. faster and has a correspondingly greater rate of climb. Its manoeuvrability is as good as a Spitfire IX. It is easy to fly but should be handled with care when taxying and taking off.

na85
11-20-2009, 04:36 PM
Link please, Buzzsaw

Kettenhunde
11-20-2009, 04:57 PM
Link please, Buzzsaw

And Altitude....

Manu-6S
11-20-2009, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by Frankthetank36:
Eh? Last I checked if u get BnZ'd the best thing to do is to turn into the attack :/

Of course Frank, but after the turn what do you do? You avoid one attack, 2 attacks, you don't avoid the 3th (talking about more planes against more planes here). Your mistake is to be ambushed by the enemy: if your SA is good then you don't need to turn against a BnZer, you become the BnZer and turning always means to lose energy.

I'd say, you spot enemy above... if you have time then dive away, if you are ambushed than turn now and then dive away (usually a BnZ comes at faster speed than your cruise speed, and so usually he's not agile like you are).

Buzzsaw-
11-20-2009, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by na85:
Link please, Buzzsaw

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit14afdu.html

horseback
11-21-2009, 01:53 PM
It can also be found in the Osprey Aircraft of the Aces Volume 5, Late Marque Spitfire Aces 1942-45, by Alfred Price, page 88.

cheers

horseback

Xiolablu3
11-21-2009, 01:57 PM
I cannot see how an aircraft that is heavier and has exactly the same wing can make the same turn as a lighter aircraft with the same structure and airframe.

Fighters try to be as light as possible for a reason?

Unless the extra engine power makes up for it in the sustained turn>?

mortoma
11-21-2009, 06:49 PM
I thought that Mk. XIV in the mods was going to be great but the porked cockpit view is more than I can stand. The normal view is more like the gunsight view is in the non-mod Oleg variety Spits. In normal view you can't see hardly any of the instruments. I like a zoomed back view which is also more realistic anyway.

Hitting the Page Down key to go to wide view seems like it would be the answer to this but it's not, since then your outside view is then demagnified and everything outside the pit is really larger than it appears. So then enemy planes are tiny. That view sucks. Any way to change it? Anybody know??

Kettenhunde
11-21-2009, 07:06 PM
I cannot see how an aircraft that is heavier and has exactly the same wing can make the same turn as a lighter aircraft with the same structure and airframe.

If it has more power available at the tested altitude, it can even turn better than the other aircraft. It has more thrust and thrust directly effects load factor.

What was the velocity, load factor, and altitude the aircraft were tested?

My point being it is entirely possible but it is a very gross oversimplification to make this statement:


Turning Circle
18. The turning circles of both aircraft are identical. The Spitfire XIV appears to turn slightly better to port than it does to starbord. The warning of an approaching high speed stall is less pronounced in the case of the Spitfire Mk XIV.

Applicable to any other conditions outside the one it was intended to report the findings on.