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Gibbage1
03-18-2004, 01:04 PM

Gibbage1
03-18-2004, 01:04 PM

Udidtoo
03-18-2004, 01:54 PM
Gibbage , I have only had my hands on the ABII one time but it felt like a very solid stick and I sort of liked the way the buttons were layed out.

If I didn't already have a back up for my MSFFII I would seriously consider one of these.

..............................
I always have just enough fuel to arrive at the scene of my crash.

GAU-8
03-18-2004, 02:15 PM
GIB,

just curious why do you not like the 45?

if its because you got "manly, fists like steak sized hands, i cannot fit into a puny taiwan stick"

there is an answer..

but if its other stuff..then i wont try to change your mind.

JG52_Helgstrand
03-18-2004, 02:37 PM
Been using the Top Gun Afterburner II for almost a year now and it still works like new...

My only bitâ©h is the throttle has indents for idle and afterburner that don't match FB a/c very well...The afterburner indent sits at about 94% and it's hard to maintain exactly 100%...but not that biggadeal really...

I've always wonderd if there is a way to modify it, anybody know??

(edited for spelling)

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BaronVonSnoopy
03-18-2004, 02:54 PM
My ab II was great for about 6 months, now it's twitchy and will yank my stick left hard, and the thumb button is no longer functional.

Zen--
03-18-2004, 02:59 PM
Not sure if they are the same stick, but I had a 30 dollar FoxPro-2 (non FFB) stick from them that totally rocked. Best stick I've ever owned as far as no BS flyability was concerned.

It didn't have a lot of buttons, no hotas either, but in terms of precision, I couldn't find a stick I liked better.

-Zen-
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Gibbage1
03-18-2004, 03:11 PM
My main complaint about the X45 is I dont like the feel of the stick. The throttle is great! But the stick is just not comfortabl for me. Its just so ungaimly and all the buttons are out of the way, or in the way. Like the one at the base were my pinky finger is, is just so damn annoying. Putting my hand IN it just feels like its squeezing my hand. Triggers are hard to reach. And I have very long and narrow fingers!!!! I dont know WHO they made that stick for. Aisian fingers will fit, but wont reach the buttons. American hands wont fit and hardly reach the buttons. Did they make it for alians? With long green fingers?

Gib

adlabs6
03-18-2004, 03:17 PM
I got some hands on time with the AfterBurner2 at CompUSA, and it felt good. I did feel that a couple of the buttons, mainly on the throttle handle, weren't really ideal in their placement. Otherwise, it was fine. If I'd bought it I'd probably be happy with it, in terms of overall design and spring tension.

That stick was my first choice going into the store. But I was wanting the FFB version, and they were out of stock on it. A short while later I had bought an X45 after looking at the display model.

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MO_JOJO
03-18-2004, 03:20 PM
A newby here. Love the game and the site, man. I have a lot to learn and I aint going against nona you's guys for a while.

I can't say anything about the ABII, but I just traded in my Saitek Cyborg EVO for the X45. Can't say much good or bad about the X45 yet, but the EVO was squirrely, and always needing to be recalibrated. The buttons by the thumb were too close, which made me bomb schools and churches when I was trying to saw some flying target in half. The X45 is alright, but I'm still adjusting to seperate rudder controls that were integrated in the EVO stick.

TooCooL34
03-18-2004, 03:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
My main complaint about the X45 is I dont like the feel of the stick. The throttle is great! But the stick is just not comfortabl for me. Its just so ungaimly and all the buttons are out of the way, or in the way. Like the one at the base were my pinky finger is, is just so damn annoying. Putting my hand IN it just feels like its squeezing my hand. Triggers are hard to reach. And I have very long and narrow fingers!!!! I dont know WHO they made that stick for. Aisian fingers will fit, but wont reach the buttons. American hands wont fit and hardly reach the buttons. Did they make it for alians? With long green fingers?

Gib<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
About X-45 stick, I couldn't agree more.
I got some online mate who sucked big time even after months of experience.
So I met him offline and what he was using.. X-45 stick, http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif so I gave him cheap MS stick and he suddenly became an ace after a couple of days.
Of course there's an X-45 stick ace in my squad but rumours has it that he is Arnold Schwarzenegger. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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marmossel
03-18-2004, 03:24 PM
Get the Thrustmaster Afterburner Force Feedback stick. Very good, very solid, with a very good hand feeling, with 8 reprogramable buttons (even with a shift function and a reprogramable hat switch directions), 2 way functioning rudder (twist handle or on throttle "glider"), not too hard force feedback effects (more a buzzer than a true force feedback stick, but nevertheless better, 'cause it's enough to only give you the feeling without disturbing you with too heavy effects), and also with an autocalibration function.

Much better than anything else i'd say http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

madsarmy
03-18-2004, 03:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by buerebistas:
Get the Thrustmaster Afterburner Force Feedback stick. Very good, very solid, with a very good hand feeling, with 8 reprogramable buttons (even with a shift function and a reprogramable hat switch directions), 2 way functioning rudder (twist handle or on throttle "glider"), not too hard force feedback effects (more a buzzer than a true force feedback stick, but nevertheless better, 'cause it's enough to only give you the feeling without disturbing you with too heavy effects), and also with an autocalibration function.

Much better than anything else i'd say http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I second that!

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KGr.HH-Sunburst
03-18-2004, 03:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
My main complaint about the X45 is I dont like the feel of the stick. The throttle is great! But the stick is just not comfortabl for me. Its just so ungaimly and all the buttons are out of the way, or in the way. Like the one at the base were my pinky finger is, is just so damn annoying. Putting my hand IN it just feels like its squeezing my hand. Triggers are hard to reach. And I have very long and narrow fingers!!!! I dont know WHO they made that stick for. Aisian fingers will fit, but wont reach the buttons. American hands wont fit and hardly reach the buttons. Did they make it for alians? With long green fingers?
Gib<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

100% agreed with that
i only use the X45 throttle and dump the stick under the desk
i now use it with a MS sidewinder precision2 pro and for me the setup is awesome
but if my MS sw pro2 fails on me i would buy an ABII ,that stick is great http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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tagTaken2
03-18-2004, 05:49 PM
Have had one for a month now, and love the feel and accuracy (first digital joystick http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif) BUT! The software for it, Thrustmapper 4.02 (?) seems to stop functioning everynow and then... usually when most required. Then have to Tab out of the game and stop and restart the taskbar thingy (to get back my shift key function). May have to find an older version..?

VFS-22_SPaRX
03-18-2004, 06:09 PM
These types of threads are something i have been seeing alot of lately. And most of them seem to have the same theme. Bought a pretty good stick for 50-80$ and it only lasted 6-12 months. Some of the people will go on to say that they replaced the same stick 3 and 4 times. Sometimes under warrentee, other times not. But the one Product you never see anyone saying that they had to replace were CH Products gear. They are high quality products. And yes they are a little on the pricey side. But when you start tallying up all the money you have spent on these run of the mill sticks for logiteck, saitek, microsoft, and all the others, you could have bought a full CH rig and then some. I cannot sing enough praises about the CH rig i have. It been wiht me for 1 year now and it is irreplaceable. I did the same thing as many others. Started with a MS stick, then tried teh X45. What i can say for the CH of all the others, i know it will last me. If you search around, you can find the CH gear for bout 100 per unit. Bare minimum you will need is a stick and rudder pedals as the sticks do not have twist rudder. Hope this helps in some way, shape, or form

S~

SPaRX

Urist
03-18-2004, 06:44 PM
I have had one for over a year now, though I don't remember exactly..

It is a pretty good stick and it was a good value at the time. Being able to switch between twist stick and throttle rocker for rudder is pretty nice.

However.

1) Thrustmaster has never been known to make "tough" sticks, and this one is no exception, it feels cheap and plasticy, though not uncomfortable. And nothing has broken on it yet for me.

2) The ergonomics of the throttle seem to favour smaller hands, or hands different then mine, same with the stick. Again, not uncomfortable, but some of the buttons can be little awkward to get at and some of the hard plastic on the stick rubs against that fleshy part of your hand between the index finger and thumb. The hand rest at the base of the stick also has annoyingly rough edges.

3) The stick is screaming for like, 3 or 4 more buttons.

4) On my throttle the indents line up perfectly with the idle and 100% markers, but they still make picking say, 103% rather difficult as it insists on falling into the indent. And throttling up smoothly on the 262 is pretty difficult, causing a lot of fires.

5) The stick makes odd grinding noises when moved around fast and is hardly smooth. Resistance is far from linear reguardless of tension settings.

6) The thrustmapper software although pretty neat, was made to be easy to use, and actually makes it self more difficult to use as a result. IMHO anyways.

7) The hat sucks, and i've had to start forcing it in order to get it to work.

Otherwise it is a good stick, I am probably being pretty hard on it but it does what I need it to do and didn't cost a small fortune.

TX-EcoDragon
03-23-2004, 02:15 AM
I would have to agree with Sparx there, CH seems to last, fit pretty well, and have the features. Of course I use an X-45 in FB, and am used to it, my only real gripes are that the canon buttons like to die, as does the cable to the throttle and the most important is that the disk at teh base tends to grab the metal and it makes being smooth very hard, so my gunnery, and my formation flying certainly suffer when using it. I have had to replace it a few times, when I know a CH would still be with me, so I wont be replacing this one. . .I will probably use the X-45 throttle with the CH Fighterstick.

About that pinkie switch on the X-45, it is designed to just pop out, this is the only way to make the stick fit my hand. Tilt the big orange pinkie switch over and it will pop out leaving a recessed pinkie switch that is actually rather comfy and not in the way.

S!
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AFJ_Locust
03-23-2004, 02:20 AM
Get something else

Get these

They are the best hands down

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carguy_
03-23-2004, 02:49 AM
If you haven`t the cash for CH,ABII is a must.

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CHDT
03-23-2004, 02:58 AM
Unexpensive and solid, buy it.

Before I used Logitech joysticks which lasted no more than four months!

T_O_A_D
03-23-2004, 03:06 AM
Well when my X-45 dies. I'm going CH I already have the pedals and they are flawless. As for guys hands not fitting the X45, you must be some thugs. My hands where small on it. I would say. So I hold it a bit different than most.
I programmed the small red button for MG, the normal trigger for cannon, the pinky is for bombs and one of the yellow buttons is for rockets. The two hats control different views and CEM the the flip button is eject. the other Yellow is also for views. I have TIR 1 so the views are Gunsite,normal,bla bla bla. I put a piece of foam on it to make it easier to keep hand up high on stick. Bt after owning it 1 1/2 years I don't even have th foam on it any more. I'm trained to it now. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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GAU-8
03-23-2004, 03:15 AM
GIB,

so you got "steaky" sized hands...well at least the width i take it. the pinky trigger comes off! leaves a a nice "U" groove for pinky finger to slip into. very roomy after removal.

as for button placements..some are harder to reach. but i make it a useful item to assign them to things i may need.. but thatway i never activate them accidentally . like extingusher,smoke (during GS matches) or recording tracks.

it depends on what youve had as well though. ive never owned anything else. so when i try other sticks..they feel awful to me.

not trying to push an X45 on ya. just letting you know that some of your bad thoughts on it can be remedied, or be useful for "handy but out of the way so i dont hit it by accident" mappings.

hope you find what your looking for.. nothing sucks worse than when you made a purchase....and you find out you dont like it.

GAU-8
03-23-2004, 03:23 AM
oooh TOADS got exactly what i want to demonstrate...

see the pinky trigger, how it has "two layers" to it push the orange part forward. and up. you wont break it..but does require som force. (scares the crap out of ya when it snaps off the first time) the layer underneath is what hides the "U" groove.

fully relaxed.. my middle finger has contact underneath trigger, and pinky touches the edge of "U" groove on the pinky trigger.

GAU-8
03-23-2004, 02:51 PM
did you make your choice yet, curious.


ahem.... thank you for the FINE 38 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

maxim26
03-23-2004, 03:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
My main complaint about the X45 is I dont like the feel of the stick. The throttle is great! But the stick is just not comfortabl for me. Its just so ungaimly and all the buttons are out of the way, or in the way. Like the one at the base were my pinky finger is, is just so damn annoying. Putting my hand IN it just feels like its squeezing my hand. Triggers are hard to reach. And I have very long and narrow fingers!!!! I dont know WHO they made that stick for. Aisian fingers will fit, but wont reach the buttons. American hands wont fit and hardly reach the buttons. Did they make it for alians? With long green fingers?

Gib<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My ukrainian fingers can reach everything at X45. Though I have big hands and practiced a lot with the girls before starting wih X45http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I have only one complain about X45 - pinkie switch.

El Turo
03-23-2004, 03:20 PM
I'm a bigger fella (6'5+ and about 230lbs) and I have no problems with the X45 at all in an ergonomic sense now that I've removed the pinkie switch.

However, the center-play slop is to the point now (appx 14-15 mos) where I'm going to have to buy a new stick because I can't deadband out all the slack even with 50 DB, and the first THREE sliders set to ZERO in the keymapping software in IL2FB.

I'm seriously leaning towards the CH stick, but I'm a little hesitant to give up the X45 throttle (lub my rotaries!).

Anyone given the CH Throttle Quadrant a good look? I've been thinking about buying it to replace the X45 throttle when it comes out this summer. Would be SUPER sweet to have all the multi-engine controls with mixture, pitch and trim controls all together.

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GAU-8
03-23-2004, 06:01 PM
i thought of getting CH product when my X-45 had problems stick side... then i thought... why not buy another 45.

now i got lots of stuff mapped to secondary throttle, (prop pitch anyone http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif and bombing (sight mode)duties set up on the secondary stick

works for me.

LW_Cobra
03-23-2004, 06:24 PM
That new CH throttle is the best thing in years. I prefered Thrustmasters line of controller but I thought the Cougar setup is a little rigid for WWII fighters.

Just this week I've had to move from my Microsoft FFB Sidewinder, which I loved, to something new. The X-45 is the one of the uglies HOTAS I've ever seen and the stick with the pinky button was just terrible. I tried to imagine the stick without it, but I still didn't like the button positions. I ended up with the Thrustmaster Fox 2. For $30 it has a twistable rudder, hat switch, and throttle control along with a few other buttons. You can vary the stiffness with a round dial on the bottom of the stick and I have mine set to "Full Stiff" which feels okay. I think this stick with the new CH throttle will work out well.

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Gibbage1
03-23-2004, 06:25 PM
Well I got the Top Gun.

#1, the trigger is so small. Dont like that.

#2, the throttle is not very smooth. Can I oil it? Any suggestions on that?

#3, The spring is not very tight on the stick. Can it be replaced?

tagTaken2
03-23-2004, 09:39 PM
#1:

Lose weight

#2:

May be stiffer than mine, but it's something I'd do with caution... if you don't want that big heavy head drooping.

#3:

There is an adjustable screw on the underside of the stick.

Bearcat99
03-23-2004, 10:51 PM
I keep saying this...... and I will till I drop....for those of you with X45s... or those who dont like the X45 stick....but are looking for a new setup and are serious about your simming..... GET AN X45...... also find just a stick that you are comfortable with... try a FFB Saitek or FFB Logitech but try a FFB (I use a MSFFB2 as my main flight stick)....AND get the X45!!! FB supports multiple sticks so if you hate the X45 stick..... like I do cause my hands are rather big... use the stick as a button bay and use the throttle and whatever other stick you like. You figure... you will spend from $166-$200 on a CH throttle and either flight/fighter/combat stick (If you go here (http://www.provantage.com/) otherwise it could be more)......... just a stick and throttle...with no FFB...(For the tactile flight response feel and immersion FFB cant be beat.... forget about the gun recoil if that turns you off... I have mine off). For $100-$160 (depending on where you buy....here (http://www.provantage.com/) or retail) you can get the FFB stick of your choice (Logitech Strike Force 3-D,Force 3-D,Saitek FFB stick) and a X45 throttle...AND a GREAT button bay that is just sitting there , stiff spring and all..off to the side with 2 hats (4 way or 8 way) and 6 buttons that can be programmed in 3 modes...(actually 6 but 3 is all you will ever need if you consider the throttle buttons, switches and hats too). If you choose to use the 4-way hat configuration like I did..(8 way hats are just too sensitive for a button bay IMO) thats still 14 commands that you can put on the X45 stick alone.....IN ONE MODE... When you consider the throttle and it's 2 rotaries, 2 3-way switches,one rocker switch, 2 buttons and one mouse/4-way hat/8- way hat....... You have a smorgasbord of immersion for a minimal cost. Even if you get a product replacement plan with each stick you are STILL WAAAAY ahead of the game. Get a set of CH pedals and TIR (which I dont have yet.. the TIR I mean) and your immersion is through the roof...and thats what its all about..... IMMERSION BABY!!! I have every function you can think of for the single engined planes in FB on my stick...EVERY FUNCTION..... even some of the obscure ones I only use on cetain planes... like all the K-14 sight adjustments......... and divebrakes for the Stuka & P-38.... with room to spare..... I havent set up a multi enginned profile yet but I'll get around to it eventually. This set up is..in my humble opinion of course...hands down the very best way to go. You get the replacement plan if you go retail like best Buy or CUSA and you are set...... The benifits of FFB are incredible.... I dont use the gun recoil at all... it spoils my aim, wears my stick out too soon, and makes too much noise.... but the flight feedback....that is where having FFB shines... just feeling that lazy wing when you take a few hits... FEELING that shudder as you approach the stall.... it's priceless!!!


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Capt.LoneRanger
03-24-2004, 12:43 AM
I got an CH-Products HOTAS - gameport version.
Since 2 years, I try to find a substitute, because it lacks the programmability under WinXP.

I've bought and tested the ABII thouroughly, but honestly, I wasn't quite pleased and sold it to a friend of mine.
1. The few buttons are good for BF1942, but not for a flightsim.
2. The centering is either non-existent or, if the spring is adjusted harder, it has a non-linear resistance, due to the rubber around the sticks base and the spring that is bent over a certain point.
3. Throttle is rather hard to move, but I adjusted the resistance, so it was okay.
4. The rudder is nice, yes, but a-I've only once switched from Rocker to TwistStick. TwistStick is nice, but only recommendable, if you play without throttle.
5. The overall design is worth 10 bucks at most, the rest of the money goes for the label.

I then, just a few month ago bought the X45 after some time informing and reading forums. To be honest, I regret it.
1. The Stick is more like that of an X-Wing than anything else. There is a reason why original sticks have buttons where the fingers lay, not on a plattform on top of it. The Pinkie-button is a remainder from the 2-way-button of the X35 and should have been replaced by a simple button. Maybe that way the weird hand-cover wouldn't be neccessary.
2. The centering is ridiculous. It has a rather large deathzone, compared to my 8 year old (!) CH and the resistance is non-linear, as the spring isn't evenly balanced. Maybe a problem of my particular stick.
3. Throttle is nice. Buttons shake and seem like put together without taking care if they fit, but it's okay for the price.

Overall, considering the price, X45 is okay. If it's your first stick it maybe even great, better than the ABII anyway.
If you're used to a stick with adjustable resistance for x and y axis, you'll be completely disoriented with both sticks. You simply don't have ANY feedback, what elevator and aileron input you're applying, if you just want to dive, pull up or roll.

So, if you just want a new stick to fly a bit, ABII is fine. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
If you're intending to fly more and get something more solid, go for an X45. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
If you're really meaning it, get an CH HOTAS (USB). http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
You can buy Stick and Throttle seperately, which makes the money a less big factor. Even if you only own the stick, you'll have twice the buttons and functions as with ABII.

greets
Capt.LoneRanger

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Tully__
03-24-2004, 03:09 AM
I wont vote coz I'm not that clear cut. I've had a TM AB II and liked it, but the X45 I have now is easily worth the extra money.

If budget is your primary concern, the TM will definitely do, but they're cheaper for good reasons.

And the programming flexibility with the X45 is vastly superior.

Edit: BTW, the cosmetic orange thingy on the X45 pinky switch comes off to leave a lot more room for "american" fingers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. The switch itself remains functional with an indent for your pinky.

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capace1
03-24-2004, 05:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by buerebistas:
Get the Thrustmaster Afterburner Force Feedback stick. Very good, very solid, with a very good hand feeling, with 8 reprogramable buttons (even with a shift function and a reprogramable hat switch directions), 2 way functioning rudder (twist handle or on throttle "glider"), not too hard force feedback effects (more a buzzer than a true force feedback stick, but nevertheless better, 'cause it's enough to only give you the feeling without disturbing you with too heavy effects), and also with an autocalibration function.

Much better than anything else i'd say http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is the FFB model of this stick even offered anymore? I can't find it for sale anywhere. Infact, the only FFB stick I really see is microsoft's, which I don't really care for. Anyone have a link for another force-feedback option?

marmossel
03-24-2004, 05:51 AM
You can still find it on Thrustmaster's site: http://us.thrustmaster.com/products/bytype.php3?skin=Joysticks&selector=9

MatuDa_
03-24-2004, 05:53 AM
Gib,

I've got the abII hotas and heres some pros and cons..

pro:
fits like a glove, excellent design on hanle.
hatswitch is in the right place (easy to reach and not on the way)
selectable rudder (on twisthandle or in hotas)
low price and ok quality

cons:

too few buttons
detents on throttle are not useful in FB,actually they are annoying.
calibration is not exact, it seems to twich a bit on pretty much all axles
sometimes buttons get stuck


For a budget choice its great but my next joy is going to be the x45.. I wouldhave bought it instead of the abIIL but my hands wouldnt fit.. now theres a solution to that other than a meatcleaver http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

capace1
03-24-2004, 05:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by buerebistas:
You can still find it on Thrustmaster's site: http://us.thrustmaster.com/products/bytype.php3?skin=Joysticks&selector=9&lt;HR&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt; (http://us.thrustmaster.com/products/bytype.php3?skin=Joysticks&selector=9<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>)

Yeah, the information is there, but the link to buy it is gone. Also, every store I've searched doesn't carry it anymore, in the US.

Dutch_JG51
05-01-2004, 02:30 PM
Just got the AB-II-FF and can not get it to function properly in AEP... SHIFT+BUTTONs fire guns or won't work, game won't recognize the U axis on the throttle... or the button inputs. Yes, I tried both versions of software mapper & drivers... no joy. Yes I edited & saved the preset, yes I mapped to maual to load my saved preset.
SYSTEM: Soyo Dragon Platinum Ultra/AMD +2700XP (not OC'd)/1-Gig Ram/80Gig HDD/and a wompin' big headache... Any insight would be most appreciated. TIA

horseback
05-01-2004, 05:32 PM
Oh hell, try to get the trim fixed and I'll GIVE you my old Precision Pro2 (been sitting in the box since I got my CH Products rig). I'll be at the Chino Airshow on the 15th-look for the guy with the Indiana Jones hat (faded to green),white goatee and two dark haired boys about eleven. I'll bring the stick with us.

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

Tully__
05-01-2004, 10:50 PM
I had one, I liked it, but I like the X45 better. Joysticks are a personal choice, try one if you can and make your mind up then.

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Salut
Tully

crazyivan1970
05-01-2004, 11:00 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4127222500&category=170&sspagename=rvi:1:3

V!
Regards,

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VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

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Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.