PDA

View Full Version : Would you want MTO as a complete paid addon?



Ares_336sqn
08-15-2006, 05:48 PM
Up to now, in FB, with the exception of Pacific, mainly planes were added with one or two maps to fly them.
I hope this tradition is not kept in BoB and we get more complete maps, not just 2 or 3 small ones.
MTO is really huge and perhaps a paid addon with complete as possible maps and planeset would be better. The tradition of free addons may be nice, but i hope it is over, at least when whole theaters of war are concerned.
MTO has never been done before with the exception of a few desert maps here and there. This theater ranges from snow covered mountains with subzero temperatures that killed more soldiers than bullets did, to scorched desert.
A paid addon would give us the chance to see at last this theater of war for the first time in a combat sim as it was. This is trully a "Forgotten Battles" case.

Ares_336sqn
08-15-2006, 05:48 PM
Up to now, in FB, with the exception of Pacific, mainly planes were added with one or two maps to fly them.
I hope this tradition is not kept in BoB and we get more complete maps, not just 2 or 3 small ones.
MTO is really huge and perhaps a paid addon with complete as possible maps and planeset would be better. The tradition of free addons may be nice, but i hope it is over, at least when whole theaters of war are concerned.
MTO has never been done before with the exception of a few desert maps here and there. This theater ranges from snow covered mountains with subzero temperatures that killed more soldiers than bullets did, to scorched desert.
A paid addon would give us the chance to see at last this theater of war for the first time in a combat sim as it was. This is trully a "Forgotten Battles" case.

Gitano1979
08-15-2006, 06:26 PM
my answer would be yes, absolutely!... but it's too late for anything releated to FB/PF series, excepted the three last add-on's.

This game/sim could have been much better than it is actually with a bit more logic, not just random selection of planes and maps, in many cases useless, that came with patches. Obviously my opinion...

Now i'm waiting, and hoping, for the future...

WWMaxGunz
08-15-2006, 06:47 PM
I vote Yes. Med will be great for SOW addon.

sudoku1941
08-15-2006, 08:22 PM
Provided it's done right, sure. The more the merrier.

Scharnhorst1943
08-15-2006, 10:41 PM
I would definitly say yes. Granted, I want it done right too. If the Med is done the ENTIRE med theater should be done. In my opinion, maps should include Italy and Greece on top of several Africa maps. The planeset would be a must as well. I would only buy it if I had an Italian trimotor bomber in addition to my fighters. Some RN planesets would definitly be a must as well. Toronto in a swordfish anyone? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Vacillator
08-16-2006, 02:29 AM
Yes, that would be nice but I also can't see it before SOW if at all.

Scharnhorst1943, a slight typo I think - Taranto not Toronto http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Feathered_IV
08-16-2006, 02:51 AM
Sure!

JG53Frankyboy
08-16-2006, 03:51 AM
absolutly !
i would never expect it otherwise as a full to-pay AdOnhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

for BoB perhaps a "small" download to pay for AdOn (like the comming IL10 one) for channel operations 1941/42 (Dieppe http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) with stuff like:
Hurricane II
Spitfire Vb
Spitfire IXc
Mustang I
Boston III
Mosquito IV
Bf109F-2,4
Fw190A-1,3
Do217E

no new map needed i think.
and after that, than the huge MTO game on DVD.

as alreadey said, the area of operation is very huge. so what areas should be maped, well, thats propably a personal taste.
i would be ok with maps that show Northern Africa from Alexandria till Algier, and than Sicily and Malta- for operations from june 1940 till august 1943.
for areas like the Balkan, Greece, Aegean, Crete, Italy itself, southern france.... with all the needed additional planes. it would be nice, but i have personal no need.
and we still have to think about the needed labour to make all this possible !

Maddox game should stop to make huge free downloads with lots of new planes, maps and stuff. only bugfixes should be free in the SoW series.

Gitano1979
08-16-2006, 04:13 AM
yep, Fleet Air Arm operations would be a huge part in a MED add-on: Operations Pedestal, Torch, Dragoon, Salerno landings, etc.
Also there should be very interesting planes to fly: Swordfish, Fulmar, Barracuda, Sea Hurri, Seafire, Martlet & Avenger(N-G issues?).

What a dream!!!

@ Frankyboy: why not Typhoon Mk.Ib and Mosquito Mk.VI? With all that firepower... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Further add-on for BOB theater of opereations should be a "NightFighters" add-on, a very forgotten battle, with radar-equipped Beaufighters % Mossies, Bf-110G-4, He-219, Ju-88C-6, plus british heavy bombers. I will pay gold for this!!!!!

p.s. will the Beaufighter be flyable in BOB?

JG53Frankyboy
08-16-2006, 04:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gitano1979:

@ Frankyboy: why not Typhoon Mk.Ib and Mosquito Mk.VI? With all that firepower... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mosquito FB.VI is AFAIK a 1943 plane.
well, if the Typhoon flew 1942, why not.

JG53Frankyboy
08-16-2006, 04:43 AM
ok, bring on the Typhoon Mk.Ib http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"The first production Typhoon IA (R7082) with the 2,200 h.p. Sabre IIA engine was completed by Gloster and flown on May 26, 1941. Production of this version, with its twelve Browning guns, was in limited quantity, and those built were used principally for the development of operational techniques. But the cannon-armed Typhoon IB was following closely on the heels of the Mark IA, and the Air Ministry was pressing for its rapid service introduction to counter the new Focke-Wulf Fw 190. Nos. 56 and 609 Squadrons based at Duxford began to receive their Typhoons in September 1941, before the fighter was fully developed, and these squadrons were forced to take on part of the onus of unearthing the new machine's numerous faults.

The decision to use the Typhoon before it was adequately developed for operational use was ultimately justified by the results, but the price of its premature introduction was high. In the first nine months of its service life far more Typhoons were lost through structural or engine troubles than were lost in combat, and between July and September 1942 it was estimated that at least one Typhoon failed to return from each sortie owing to one or other of its defects. Trouble was experienced in power dives--a structural failure in the tail assembly sometimes resulted in this component parting company with the rest of the airframe. In fact, during the Dieppe operations in August 1942, when the first official mention of the Typhoon was made, fighters of this type bounced a formation of Fw 190s south of Le Treport, diving out of the sun and damaging three of the German fighters, but two of the Typhoons did not pull out of their dive owing to structural failures in their tail assemblies."

Gitano1979
08-16-2006, 04:48 AM
my mistake about mosquito, sorry! Typhoon entered service at the end of 1941, and in 1942, they were fully operational.

Gitano1979
08-16-2006, 04:49 AM
ops, writing at the same time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Gitano1979
08-16-2006, 04:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
ok, bring on the Typhoon Mk.Ib http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"The first production Typhoon IA (R7082) with the 2,200 h.p. Sabre IIA engine was completed by Gloster and flown on May 26, 1941. Production of this version, with its twelve Browning guns, was in limited quantity, and those built were used principally for the development of operational techniques. But the cannon-armed Typhoon IB was following closely on the heels of the Mark IA, and the Air Ministry was pressing for its rapid service introduction to counter the new Focke-Wulf Fw 190. Nos. 56 and 609 Squadrons based at Duxford began to receive their Typhoons in September 1941, before the fighter was fully developed, and these squadrons were forced to take on part of the onus of unearthing the new machine's numerous faults.

The decision to use the Typhoon before it was adequately developed for operational use was ultimately justified by the results, but the price of its premature introduction was high. In the first nine months of its service life far more Typhoons were lost through structural or engine troubles than were lost in combat, and between July and September 1942 it was estimated that at least one Typhoon failed to return from each sortie owing to one or other of its defects. Trouble was experienced in power dives--a structural failure in the tail assembly sometimes resulted in this component parting company with the rest of the airframe. In fact, during the Dieppe operations in August 1942, when the first official mention of the Typhoon was made, fighters of this type bounced a formation of Fw 190s south of Le Treport, diving out of the sun and damaging three of the German fighters, but two of the Typhoons did not pull out of their dive owing to structural failures in their tail assemblies." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

...so Air Ministry decided a change of tactics: no more high-altitude dogfights, left to Spits (improvement program was working hard to balance disadvantage from FW190), but low level flights, to interpecpt incoming low-level german raiders.

Ok, now Typhoon is certified for 41/42 operations. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TROOPER117
08-16-2006, 05:02 AM
Definately... But not for FB. If all that time and effort could be spent producing a paid add on, it should be for the new SoW sim.
FB has run its course now, and Oleg and crew should be concentrating on their new product.
However, if this project was turned over to 3rd party modders for FB.. then there is enough talent out there to produce a first class add-on too!

Regards... Dave S.

JG53Frankyboy
08-16-2006, 05:08 AM
i belive, that we all, also the topic starter, are talking about a MTO game for the SoW series.

Ares_336sqn
08-16-2006, 05:21 AM
JG53Frankyboy, one reason i would like to see Greece in MTO is , of course the fact that i am ... Greek http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
The second reason is this:
days fighting before been conquered

Greece: 219
Norway 61
France 43
Poland 30
Belgium 18
Holland 4
Yugoslavia 3
Chechoslovakia 0
Luxemburg 0
Denmark 0

And it took 3 countries together: Italy, Germany and Bulgaria without significant help from anybody-with the exception of the battle of Crete.
The war in the area of Greece did not end after the fall of Crete. i am not talking about the resistance but the air-naval activity in the Aegean.
But most of all, MTO is [b]not[/b} just the desert!! The area from Gibraltar to Middle East has probably the most beautiful and diverse landscape: Mountains, rocky or heavily forested, Islands of all kinds , all kinds of shores, sandy, rocky, cliffs etc...and some of the most diverse and beautiful civilizasions just next to eachother..
It is not just.... sand! That would be the N.African Theater of operations, not MTO.
But that needs a lot of work and work has to be payed for! And payed well...

Ares_336sqn
08-16-2006, 05:30 AM
By the way, yes the topic is about SoW-BoB, not FB!
And i would also like to see the typhoon at some point in the game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Gitano1979
08-16-2006, 05:49 AM
i was overwhelmed by enthusiasm... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif let's return in topic!

i'm italian, so i'd like to see Greek theater implemented in SOW series. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Ares_336sqn
08-16-2006, 05:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gitano1979:
i was overwhelmed by enthusiasm... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif let's return in topic!

i'm italian, so i'd like to see Greek theater implemented in SOW series. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know, believe it or not, i can live without Greece in MTO http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
But, MTO can not be complete with just some desert maps and a few planes.

Gitano1979
08-16-2006, 06:57 AM
I see, probably many parts og MTO theater will not be modelled and we'll have to accept that.
But i think that the appeal of FB series was partly due to it's historical environment. Let me explain: when i purchased first IL-2, i had no infos about Eastern Front in WW2, and this lighted my interest. Nowadays, i'm still leraning infos about planes i already know, and discovering new things about new planes that i've never known before.

So why not SOW can still follow this line of conduct?

actionhank1786
08-16-2006, 07:09 AM
I agree with Gitano. But i also have to add, that the war in the Mediteranian (good lord, i probably just butchered that, i'll stick with MTO) is something that never got a whole lot of coverage in games.
A lot of people don't really know Italy was the 3rd major Axis country to fight.
Oh, and Ares, my old boss was a Greek man named Dino Godas.
He used to tell me stories about Greece, well between my washing dishes!

Ares_336sqn
08-16-2006, 07:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by actionhank1786:
I agree with Gitano. But i also have to add, that the war in the Mediteranian (good lord, i probably just butchered that, i'll stick with MTO) is something that never got a whole lot of coverage in games.
A lot of people don't really know Italy was the 3rd major Axis country to fight.
Oh, and Ares, my old boss was a Greek man named Dino Godas.
He used to tell me stories about Greece, well between my washing dishes! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, that is why i also stick with MTO http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Anyway , the point of my original post was NOT about Greece in specific... i just got carried away as i was typing. But, i have a good excuse: i am the "mediterranean type". And i hope i did not butchered that either http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I really have to chech the spelling of that word...

triggerhappyfin
08-16-2006, 07:41 AM
I'll buy whatever addon to
fb... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

BuzzU
08-16-2006, 08:29 AM
No, I won't pay for anymore FB addons.

I'll gladly pay for any addons for SOW.

Gitano1979
08-16-2006, 08:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by actionhank1786:
...war in the Mediteranian (good lord, i probably just butchered that, i'll stick with MTO) is something that never got a whole lot of coverage in games.
A lot of people don't really know Italy was the 3rd major Axis country to fight... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunately, FB and, in future BOB, are commercial products, wich aim to the largest market possible, not just a satisfactory pastime for hardcore simmers.

TROOPER117
08-16-2006, 04:13 PM
It would be a vast undertaking to do the lot.. But I'd settle for Tunisia and Libya.. Malta and Sicily for starters... The rest I could wait for.
I'm not really interested in airwarfare over Greece, (sorry), but Crete would be intersting. Just from an anti invasion point of view.

Regards.. Dave S.

jensenpark
08-16-2006, 10:03 PM
Med would be great...oh, and Battle of France thrown in for good measure.

Though I would imagine we might get BoF as SOW add on...would be nice.

WWMaxGunz
08-16-2006, 11:05 PM
Med was hot long before US arrived. The planes in North Africa when Rommel and Montgomery
went at it back and forth, concluded in short order after it became a 2-front war for the
Axis. Everything from obsolete biplanes to 109's and Spits was there. Even P-40's and
I guess Macchi 202?

I don't expect near as many flyables as in IL2 series. 4 per? Same obsolete's even as AI
would be usable in a Spanish Civil War installment for SOW though which could add the Rata
and a 109b perhaps? Maybe Henschell biplane and I-15 series? Was there any Macchi 200's
in that fight?

You do the older ones first and they are there for background later.

Besides, was there a sudden deal with certain suit-happy aircraft corporations over rights
to planes names and details? Or no P-40, etc.

JG53Frankyboy
08-17-2006, 03:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
Med was hot long before US arrived. The planes in North Africa when Rommel and Montgomery
went at it back and forth, concluded in short order after it became a 2-front war for the
Axis. Everything from obsolete biplanes to 109's and Spits was there. Even P-40's and
I guess Macchi 202?

............. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/3561018174/p/3

269GA-Veltro
08-17-2006, 04:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ares_336sqn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gitano1979:
i was overwhelmed by enthusiasm... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif let's return in topic!

i'm italian, so i'd like to see Greek theater implemented in SOW series. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know, believe it or not, i can live without Greece in MTO http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
But, MTO can not be complete with just some desert maps and a few planes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We will see guys....
If we couldn't have all the theaters at the same time, i hope we could have all of them in some addons.
Sure we need also Greece, no doubts about it.

------------------------------------

For Il2 (MED is reserved by Oleg for the BoB serie), a good solution could have been a North East of Italy addon with the yugoslavian border. We could have some great stuff here, and with a lot of additions as we have asked for a lot of time, first of...finally...the new P-47 cockpits (and of course the Brasilian AF).

G-10, G-14 (german version) and G-14 AS, of course with a strong restyling for all the Gustav and Kurfurst cockpits; the same for Ju-87D serie cockpits.

G55 for the ANR.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

Ju-88 finally with the Jippo model, A-26, some late version for the P-40 ecc. ecc.......

But is better stop to dream.

JG53Frankyboy
08-17-2006, 05:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
..........
I don't expect near as many flyables as in IL2 series. 4 per? ........... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

having the restricted time frame and planeset of SoW:BoB in mind -we most propably have to forgett the planeflood of the IL2 series- a restricted MTO based game for 1940/41 would look like this

SoW:MTO for 1940/41

Libya/Cyreneika and Sicily/Malta maps

Bf109E-7/Trop
Bf110D
Ju87B/R
Ju88A-4
He111H with Torpedoarmament available

G.50
Cr.42
MC.200
SM.79-II
Br.20M
Ba.65 &lt;- doutbfull, any sources of cockpits ?

Gladiator II
Hurricane Ia Vokes
Hurricane IIb Vokes
Tomahawk
Blenheim IV
Wellington Ic
SeaGladiator

Fulmar II
SeaHurricane Ib
Swordfish

For FAA operations:
Carriers
HMS Illustrious
HMS Audacity http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


Totaly new would be:
MC.200
Tomahawk
Fulmar
Swordfish
SM.79
Ba.65

If Gladiator and Wellington will be flyable in SoW:BoB is not sure.
The rest would be modifications from the SoW:BoB planes.
Ju88A-4 would actually be very differ from Ju88A-1 , espacially in cockpit.

doable work i think, even with the much more expenditure of programming with the new engine.

and IF there will be something like a Channel 41/42 AdOn for BoB - the time frame can easily be streched to 1942 - with modifikations of
Bf109F
SpitfireV

Boston III can be used without , new would be the Kittyhawk & MC.202 needed.


anyway, we will see. that all here is looking forward for roughly 2 years , or more !
personaly i wish they forgot BoB and selected an early Africa/Malta campaign instead from the beginning !
to repeat, personal opinion !

Ares_336sqn
08-17-2006, 06:10 AM
That was the point of my original post. Are we going to get in SoW-BoB a "FB-like" MTO addon or a full expansion with full price. Would people pay for it?
In the second scenario, we could have a lot more maps and planes. Free or low price online addons can't cover this theater.
And i don't think anyone wants Oleg and his team to do all that for free or for a very small fee.

JG53Frankyboy
08-17-2006, 06:15 AM
sorry, but BoB will be also VERY limited, and it will be full price http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

to repeat, i think we have to say byby to that IL2 known planeflood. and propably mapflood......

Ares_336sqn
08-17-2006, 06:27 AM
True. But for BoB a lot of work has to be done for the grphics engine, FM modeling etc.etc. So, it is logical that we will get just one map. Once these are there, you deal mainly with maps and planes.
I don't think either and do not expect a flood of planes. Just something more complete.
And it is not as if i do not like the desert either. Just look at my sig http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif After all, 13th, 335 and 336 saw more action there than in Greece...