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Mike8686
07-16-2004, 03:21 AM
Well from what I've heard the Ta152 is strictly a high altitude fighter with poor lower altitude performance. I just need ur opinions on this guys because from what I've experienced on this aircraft that statement is NOT TRUE. I was flying it 3000m and lower and it was beautiful, I feel like this thing actually turns pretty damn well! It climbs beautifully and retains energy so well. So from u experienced guys I'd like to know, how does it compare to the FW190D9? From what I understand the D doesnt roll as well and doesnt have as many guns as the A's but can turn better at low and high speeds, climbs better, its faster, and it retains its energy better. Please confirm that those statements are true, feel free to add in any helpful info and please tell me how the performance of Ta152 compares to the D9 and A's at high AND low altitudes, also please provide useful tactics when using this aircraft, whats its fighting style? (BnZ I assume, can it turn as well as D9 at really high speeds? Low speeds?)

Mike8686
07-16-2004, 03:21 AM
Well from what I've heard the Ta152 is strictly a high altitude fighter with poor lower altitude performance. I just need ur opinions on this guys because from what I've experienced on this aircraft that statement is NOT TRUE. I was flying it 3000m and lower and it was beautiful, I feel like this thing actually turns pretty damn well! It climbs beautifully and retains energy so well. So from u experienced guys I'd like to know, how does it compare to the FW190D9? From what I understand the D doesnt roll as well and doesnt have as many guns as the A's but can turn better at low and high speeds, climbs better, its faster, and it retains its energy better. Please confirm that those statements are true, feel free to add in any helpful info and please tell me how the performance of Ta152 compares to the D9 and A's at high AND low altitudes, also please provide useful tactics when using this aircraft, whats its fighting style? (BnZ I assume, can it turn as well as D9 at really high speeds? Low speeds?)

LEXX_Luthor
07-16-2004, 03:28 AM
All the old timer sea level dogfighter Noobs were Whining and Wailing that Ta~152H was not uber at sea level so in the last Patch Oleg caved in and gave the Ta~152H the upcoming Ta~152C flight model. Everybody was Happy.

When the Ta~152C is releaced, the proper FMs will be matched with the proper planes again.

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Mike8686
07-16-2004, 03:33 AM
What are FMs and I'm not sure what ur saying, r u saying that TA152H is suppose to have poor low alt performance but the TA152C has superb low alt performance? And that Oleg just gave the TA152H all the qualities of the C?

SeaFireLIV
07-16-2004, 03:45 AM
Lexx might be kidding there, but after the recent statement that Oleg did give in to some US whines which he said he felt were unrealistic and unhistorical I do wonder if he`s done the same for LW aircraft also.

It is still one of the saddest things I`ve ever heard him say - and I made my thoughts clear on that in a separate thread. With luck Oleg will go back to accuracy, not whineracy.

Anyway, I find the TA152H easy meat whenever they come down, which they always seem to do. I don`t think one TA has yet shot me down at low level and I`ve shot at least 6 down that dared come low (one just yesterday).

*********************************************

FMs = Flight Models. How aircraft fly. The consensus is that every plane in FB should have an FM as close to real life WWII as possible. But there`s a lot of debate/whining on this issue. How do we know EXACTLY how WWII planes flew in combat? Absolutely, for certain? Facts and accounts. Yet some will come up with FACTS for and FACTS against.

Incorrect FMs could have aircraft flying in a way they did not in reality, hence Lexx saying perhaps the TA152H (designed for high flying) having the FM of a TA152C which designed to fly well low.

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[This message was edited by SeaFireLIV on Fri July 16 2004 at 02:54 AM.]

[This message was edited by SeaFireLIV on Fri July 16 2004 at 02:54 AM.]

Arms1
07-16-2004, 04:35 AM
hard to tell the real world performance of an a/c that had such limited operational use and so many production problems, less than 70 were actually in the fight IIRC

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dadada1
07-16-2004, 05:30 AM
Your quiet right with your general outline of 190 A, D and 152 characteristics. Ta is currently okay fighter below 3000m, better than it is at altitude in game certainly. In order not to get eaten alive stay with BnZ tactics others are better below 3000m. Even though Ta turns quiet well it's best to keep speed high for a safe escape, its high speed handling is superb, better than D9 which is probably how it should be. I'm hoping that it's flight model will have a proper revision in the up and coming patch and that regardless of protests it will be accurate and true. I have read all the reports regarding Ta engagements with enemy, and apart from the famous engagment with Tempests(could'nt have been too bad low) at tree top altitude, they don't really state where their fights took place.
Resche did state that he felt his 152 to be very much superior to the Yak 9s he engaged and is credited with shooting down 2 of these. Nevertheless Ta is really a high altitude fighter, and thats where it should really shine, currently it does'nt. I think it's turn is modelled quiet accurately again with the posible exception of high altitude. If your really interested in reading up I would recommend "Focke Wulf Ta 152, the story of the Luftwaffe's high altitude fighter" by Dietmar Harmann published by Schiffer "JG 301 Wilde Sau" by Murawski, M. J., Neuwerth, P. published by Kagero, and "FW 190 part IV" also published by Kagero. Data and testing on the Ta 152 is limited and sometimes contradictory, but it was almost certainly the fastest piston engined fighter to see service in europe bar none.

NorrisMcWhirter
07-16-2004, 06:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
"but it was almost certainly the fastest piston engined fighter to see service in europe bar none."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not in this sim it ain't if we assume that P63s flew over Germany...

As mentioned elsewhere, I had an engagment where a P63 kept up with me for some time in level flight and my 152 engine gave up before the P63s did even though he was trailing smoke before the chase began.

Cheers,
Norris

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p1ngu666
07-16-2004, 06:45 AM
p63 has great high speed areodynamics http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
ta152 has chuffing great wings, so that would slow it down

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dadada1
07-16-2004, 06:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
"but it was almost certainly the fastest piston engined fighter to see service in europe bar none."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not in this sim it ain't if we assume that P63s flew over Germany...

As mentioned elsewhere, I had an engagment where a P63 kept up with me for some time in level flight and my 152 engine gave up before the P63s did even though he was trailing smoke before the chase began.

Cheers,
Norris

================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam :
http://cabinessence.cream.org/

: More irreverence :
http://www.tvgohome.com/

: You've seen them... :
http://www.chavscum.co.uk&lt;HR&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt; (http://www.chavscum.co.uk<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>)

Most sources state that P63 was capable of 410mph @ 25,000 feet, so it should'nt be anywhere near the Ta at that altitude, I suspect their is a fault with one or the other. Lower down is probably a different story but I feel Ta currently overheats too fast anyway. Slim wings of Ta I'm sure don't generate that much drag, so I dont think thats an explanation. 472 MPH against 410mph is a massive performance gulf between the two that is not reflected in game even at altitude.

NorrisMcWhirter
07-16-2004, 07:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dadada1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
"but it was almost certainly the fastest piston engined fighter to see service in europe bar none."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not in this sim it ain't if we assume that P63s flew over Germany...

As mentioned elsewhere, I had an engagment where a P63 kept up with me for some time in level flight and my 152 engine gave up before the P63s did even though he was trailing smoke before the chase began.

Cheers,
Norris

================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam :
http://cabinessence.cream.org/

: More irreverence :
http://www.tvgohome.com/

: You've seen them... :
http://www.chavscum.co.uk<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most sources state that P63 was capable of 410mph @ 25,000 feet, so it should'nt be anywhere near the Ta at that altitude, I suspect their is a fault with one or the other. Lower down is probably a different story but I feel Ta currently overheats too fast anyway. Slim wings of Ta I'm sure don't generate that much drag, so I dont think thats an explanation. 472 MPH against 410mph is a massive performance gulf between the two that is not reflected in game even at altitude.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can well believe it.

What was worse is that I nearly always fly with rad open and 90% thottle until I engage so the 152 should have been cooler than a cucumber in liquid nitrogen prior to the chase commencing.

I concur that the wings are big but they are only a femtometre thick http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Cheers,
Norris

================================================== ==========

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http://cabinessence.cream.org/

: More irreverence :
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KGr.HH-Sunburst
07-16-2004, 08:16 AM
im questioning the P63 as a UFO
those ugly tanks just wont die even if their engine is smoking it can keep flying and running forever
i think we should ban it untill that DM is fixed
im not talking OFFLINE but online because offline they get engine fires very quick but online i have yet to see one on fire after a quick burst, doesnt matter if you put a whole D9 A9 or 109G/K loadout in it they dont seem to suffer from control cables damage,a blown engine,or structural failure even after somany mk108/Mg151/20mm hits http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

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dadada1
07-16-2004, 08:30 AM
P 63 engine has the same level of oil reserves as the P39 (Kuwait or there abouts), I really would like to know the justification for this behaviour, though I have seen them flame. DM should really be addressed though.

NorrisMcWhirter
07-16-2004, 09:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RK_HH-Sunburst:
im questioning the P63 as a UFO
those ugly tanks just wont die even if their engine is smoking it can keep flying and running forever
i think we should ban it untill that DM is fixed
im not talking OFFLINE but online because offline they get engine fires very quick but online i have yet to see one on fire after a quick burst, doesnt matter if you put a whole D9 A9 or 109G/K loadout in it they dont seem to suffer from control cables damage,a blown engine,or structural failure even after somany mk108/Mg151/20mm hits http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

http://www.hell-hounds.de
http://img31.photobucket.com/albums/v94/sunburst/sunsigHH.jpg
_''All your Mustangs are belong to us''_
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You mean you don't get the old chestnut where you panel them with 30mm fire only to see an elevator fall off?

The whine-o-meter in the server I was in flew off the wall due to gyroscopic effects, straight out of the window and knocked an old woman (who was unlucky enough to be walking past, pulling her tartan shopping trailer thing along behind her) clean out of her zip-up booty footwear things. All this because it took me ages to get onto the 6 of this P63 in a Me262 1a before unleashing the mighty mk108s and seeing that happen....

Cheers,
Norris

================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam :
http://cabinessence.cream.org/

: More irreverence :
http://www.tvgohome.com/

: You've seen them... :
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Mike8686
07-16-2004, 03:52 PM
Alright, but what about me question eh?! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif How the Tas roll compared to the D9? Climb? And if the Ta really is so much better than the D9 which is better to fly at low altitudes and why? (Assume usage of BnZ tactics 3000m and lower)

crazyivan1970
07-16-2004, 03:58 PM
From my experiances with TA and D9 from 0 to 5000m, D9 is superior at high speed handling, climb and zoom climb, roll, dive and elevator authority... but deffinitely inferior to TA in low speed handling and turning abilites. Just my 02c

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