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View Full Version : Another couple of Ideas for BoB



KOM.Nausicaa
03-15-2005, 01:01 PM
Hi all,

never posted in this particular forum section, but I thought the following could be interesting enough to use the "red phone to the maker".

I have since a couple of years studied the history of BoB in depth, and did a fair amount of missions using historical information around the BoB for CFS3. Now I have switched to IL2/AEP/PF and I am looking forward to the Battle of Britain.

Playing some of my old CFS3 BoB missions today, I had following Ideas for the 1C:Maddox BoB:

1. Its IMO quite enerving, and also historically uncorrect, when enemy aircraft spot you and follow you all the way, even if you turn back to base beyond frontline. RAF pilots where for example not allowed to fly over occupied France, and if yes, they had often to keep minimum altitude, usually 15,000 ft. Me's had a fuel limit, but would not follow any RAF guy to far into the country anyway, especially during what is generally called the first phase, 10th June to 7th August.

Could it be possible to include a feature in the campaign/mission builder which would be like a "line" acting as an invisible "fence" enemy aircraft would not cross?

The advantage would be that you can really try to escape engagements when outnumbered f. ex. and aircraft would not follow you like glued until your own airbase. It would be quite unrealistic to see Spitfires over a Jagdgeschwader airfield like Calais, IMO, in plain August 1940.


2. During the BoB, the Luftwaffe had installed rescue pontoons. These were like a little house, equipped with blankets, food, drink and medical supply. There were a couple of hundred throughout the channel.

My idea is to include them in the game, and then, when a shot down axis pilot manages to dip into the water next to one of them, he would be counted as "returned" to the squadron, and not as missed, dead, or captured by the enemy. It could be an additional thrill to try and reach one of these pontoons when being in trouble. (engine failure f. ex.)

I know that these are "candy" details and that more important things have to be done, but I thought it could be interesting to share this ideas. Maybe Oleg reads it and sees something in it.

Cheers and thanks for the hard work,

Nausicaa

KOM.Nausicaa
03-16-2005, 03:18 PM
Mhh, strange nobody seems to answer this one.

Maybe I should say it otherwise: I think one of the main missing features in our wonderful aircombat sims is the lacking "disengagement" of AI flights from combat zones.

Ever wondered why you can read in historical texts that out of an egagement of 100+ bombers, 30+ Spits and 20+ Me's, one or two aircraft only were really shot down, sometimes even no one? Read books about the BoB, especially day-by-day accounts. The reason for this are of course complex, strategy, difference of sims and real life flying etc; but one of the reasons is as well that aircombat is not a show of pitbull dogs, but a play of engagement and dis-engagement. This lacks, IMHO, in flightsims like the Maddox series or the CFS series.
The upcoming BoB could be a chance to think about it.

I repeat, it would be highly unrealistic to see some Spits pursue you on your run home until over your airfield in let's say, Brest, or Calais. RAF pilots did not do so.

Maybe it could be possible to think about a circle, similar to the ground-target circle in full mission builder, which can be expanded or retracted by the mission maker, and which would define an invisible line over which enemy aircraft do not pursue you. Could that be a start?


Cheers,

nausicaa

Chuck_Older
03-16-2005, 03:37 PM
On point one, your idea is almost as untrealistic as the way it's done now, don't you think? A trigger might be a better idea, anyway, rather than an arbitrary line: a random or set distance the enemy will not fly closer to the airbase is triggered at such and such a distance to any base, and then even that could be negated by certain things such as enemy plane fuel status for example

On two, most pilots who ditched were lost, period, unfortunately.

The Luftwaffe pilots were ordered not to carry sidearms at one point because it was beleived they were taking 'the coward's way out' rather than die with their lungs full of North Sea or English Channel. Not much faith in these floating rescue points was to be seen in that example.

KOM.Nausicaa
03-16-2005, 04:01 PM
Thanks for the reply, Chuck Older. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Mhh, I think you misunderstood me a bit. Sorry, my english is not perfect, and might explain this badly.

I never thought about an "arbitrary line", but of a trigger, like you describe it. I just tried to imagine how that could look in full mission builder (im that mission builder guy..:-) and I saw the possibility of an expandable circle. Maybe far from being good idea, but its a start...anyway, This one must not be set up for the player, but for the AI, and from his airbase on.
Of course, all operations you assign to the AI must be inside that circle. It would be like a line of distance the AI will not cross from his airbase. This is not historically uncorrect at all. Such orders existed, also concerning altitude.

Second point:

Yes the pontoons were far from being a perfect life saver, but it is not correct to describe them as if they where useless. Luftwaffe "red cross" airplanes checked them regularily, and some pilots could be recovered. I did not want them to be a "sure as hell" lifesafer in campaigns, but it can be considered to include them in the scenery and to give, when ditching near one of them, the possibiliy to be considered as returned to home, and not necessarily as being dead or captured (which would be the case otherwise as 100% sure, as you say correctly) Maybe a random generator could help here.

I said myself that these ideas do not cover anything really essential. They are additional ideas, nothing more.

Cheers,

nausicaa

Some Sources on the mentioned points:

"Spitfire Summer" by Malcolm Brown, edited by the Imperial War Museum, London.

"The Narrow Margin", by D. Wood and D. Dempster, Pen and Sword Military Classics.

"Die Deutsche Luftwaffe", by A. Galland, D├┬Ârfler Editions