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View Full Version : AI Wingmen don`t warn you if they see enemy but you as Leader do not!



SeaFireLIV
04-26-2004, 06:53 PM
Often when flying in my Campaign as Squad Leader (or Major in 2nd group), there is a problem:

I`ll be scanning the skies ahead of me with my team of Laggs, I16s, Spits, whatever. Some low flying bombers will fly close to the ground over trees. I don`t see them, but my Wingmen AI do, they`ll immediately fly to attack with no word or warning. This means I`ll fly along merrily checking my front only to realise 2 0r 3 minutes later that NOONE`s with me!

Sometimes, I`ll find them and get to them, other times I can`t find them at all, even though I can hear them calling for help etc. European Air War always had a wingman call out when a bogey was spotted, whether you had it on Autopilot or manual. Please could you add a simple routine so that if a Wingman is with you he will call if he sees an enemy when you are flying as leader, as he does when you are on Autopilot?

Thankyou. Good luck with your Family (and the patch http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif)

*********************************************

Below is my growing list of possible improvements for FB while the patch is ongoing...


1. Reduce (but don`t eradicate) AI kill stealing.

2. Give us a 1st person view in the parachute.

3.Ordnance for Hurricane please (and even Spitfire ).

4. Reduce enemy effectiveness at night. (Reduce detection radius, accuracy in shooting, even greater chance to miscalcualte and have collisions).

5. Don`t have enemy bombers switch on NAV lights immediately after dropping bombs and turning for home, please.

6. Please have a `What if` campaign, enabling all aircraft choices (except Mistel) within reasonable dates of course, ranging from start of war to say 1946ish. Probably for Startshoy, but can`t get on his site.

7.The Mother TB3 Sveno with I16s as a part of the standard bomber Campaign, if you want to fly the TB3 AND as pilot of the I16 Campaign, if you want to fly the I16. Say once or twice out of every 10 or 20 standard missions. You know what I mean. (Startshoy again).

8. More SEVERE penalties for shooting friendly aircraft (2 or more). Starshoy said ages ago he would do this, but has not and has never explained why.

9. Have AI lose you in cloud sometimes (probably not possible, but it`s here anyway).

10. Have ALL aircraft pilots use the `DEAD` slumped over pilot animation when unconscous or dead.

11. Have pilots head tracking sometimes track back to front quickly sometimes, instead of constantly staring at leader.

12. Have Leader of flight recognise when you are fighting and stop him shouting at you to keep formation (in fact just delete it altogether)!

13. Give the AI the ability to TAXI around incapacitated aircraft on runway and take off. This way they don`t get slaughtered if the first plane crashes on take off and is still on the runway.

14. At start and end of mission enable pilot a small `circle` of free movement about plane. This is to allow him to view plane before entering cockpit and after succesfully landing . Enable this even with no outside views on.

15. Random aircraft failures (such as sparkplugs causing aircraft to fail in cold weather).

16. Allow INDIVIDUAL choosing of HUD text messages. I like flying WITHOUT warning text messages, but some like `radiater` overheating seem to have no visual indication in the cockpit. So tailoring warnings would be er... cool.

17. If your 2nd (or 3rd, whatever) in command and your Flight Leader is killed, you should be given all Flight Leader Command options. At present all the wingies behind will follow you dumbly, but NOT follow any orders which makes it difficult to be effective if you become Leader while in the field. Needs changing!

18. (new)Please have ONE AI Wingmen in Squad alert you when they see Bombers/fighters and you have not yet.

SeaFireLIV...



http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Sveno.jpg

`FLY my children! FLY!`

[This message was edited by SeaFireLIV on Mon April 26 2004 at 06:10 PM.]

SeaFireLIV
04-26-2004, 06:53 PM
Often when flying in my Campaign as Squad Leader (or Major in 2nd group), there is a problem:

I`ll be scanning the skies ahead of me with my team of Laggs, I16s, Spits, whatever. Some low flying bombers will fly close to the ground over trees. I don`t see them, but my Wingmen AI do, they`ll immediately fly to attack with no word or warning. This means I`ll fly along merrily checking my front only to realise 2 0r 3 minutes later that NOONE`s with me!

Sometimes, I`ll find them and get to them, other times I can`t find them at all, even though I can hear them calling for help etc. European Air War always had a wingman call out when a bogey was spotted, whether you had it on Autopilot or manual. Please could you add a simple routine so that if a Wingman is with you he will call if he sees an enemy when you are flying as leader, as he does when you are on Autopilot?

Thankyou. Good luck with your Family (and the patch http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif)

*********************************************

Below is my growing list of possible improvements for FB while the patch is ongoing...


1. Reduce (but don`t eradicate) AI kill stealing.

2. Give us a 1st person view in the parachute.

3.Ordnance for Hurricane please (and even Spitfire ).

4. Reduce enemy effectiveness at night. (Reduce detection radius, accuracy in shooting, even greater chance to miscalcualte and have collisions).

5. Don`t have enemy bombers switch on NAV lights immediately after dropping bombs and turning for home, please.

6. Please have a `What if` campaign, enabling all aircraft choices (except Mistel) within reasonable dates of course, ranging from start of war to say 1946ish. Probably for Startshoy, but can`t get on his site.

7.The Mother TB3 Sveno with I16s as a part of the standard bomber Campaign, if you want to fly the TB3 AND as pilot of the I16 Campaign, if you want to fly the I16. Say once or twice out of every 10 or 20 standard missions. You know what I mean. (Startshoy again).

8. More SEVERE penalties for shooting friendly aircraft (2 or more). Starshoy said ages ago he would do this, but has not and has never explained why.

9. Have AI lose you in cloud sometimes (probably not possible, but it`s here anyway).

10. Have ALL aircraft pilots use the `DEAD` slumped over pilot animation when unconscous or dead.

11. Have pilots head tracking sometimes track back to front quickly sometimes, instead of constantly staring at leader.

12. Have Leader of flight recognise when you are fighting and stop him shouting at you to keep formation (in fact just delete it altogether)!

13. Give the AI the ability to TAXI around incapacitated aircraft on runway and take off. This way they don`t get slaughtered if the first plane crashes on take off and is still on the runway.

14. At start and end of mission enable pilot a small `circle` of free movement about plane. This is to allow him to view plane before entering cockpit and after succesfully landing . Enable this even with no outside views on.

15. Random aircraft failures (such as sparkplugs causing aircraft to fail in cold weather).

16. Allow INDIVIDUAL choosing of HUD text messages. I like flying WITHOUT warning text messages, but some like `radiater` overheating seem to have no visual indication in the cockpit. So tailoring warnings would be er... cool.

17. If your 2nd (or 3rd, whatever) in command and your Flight Leader is killed, you should be given all Flight Leader Command options. At present all the wingies behind will follow you dumbly, but NOT follow any orders which makes it difficult to be effective if you become Leader while in the field. Needs changing!

18. (new)Please have ONE AI Wingmen in Squad alert you when they see Bombers/fighters and you have not yet.

SeaFireLIV...



http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Sveno.jpg

`FLY my children! FLY!`

[This message was edited by SeaFireLIV on Mon April 26 2004 at 06:10 PM.]

mike_espo
04-27-2004, 02:49 PM
Good post. I am finding offline play interesting. Getting tired of the DF servers. My only wish is that the AI would improve. I know its a technical issue, but what you mentioned I should think could be implemented. Many times I am flying and my wingmen all a sudden arent there! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif Unfortunately, I am finding that Oleg is more concerned with the online bunch. But as you play the game more, you want more and more realism.

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

Cossack13
04-27-2004, 05:02 PM
Interesting points all around.

But sticking with the main topic, when flying as the wingman, I'd like to be able to call my leader's attention to the fact that I see aircraft!

It's really annoying to be responding to their approach and hosehead starts yelling at me to get back into position!

Another request, can we have your cartoons put into a gallery of some sort? They really are excellent!

http://www.tolwyn.com/~cossack/Coss110Sig.gif

SeaFireLIV
04-27-2004, 05:34 PM
I`m working on it- really I am! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VMF223_Anderson
04-28-2004, 03:23 PM
Bump
AI is my only pet peeve, I think you covered all my experiances offline campaigning http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

G.Anderson
Hilo, Hawaii

Itto_Okami
04-29-2004, 11:17 AM
another thing... tone a little down the gunner aim. Eight on ten times that I go for a bomber I have a dead engine or a pk at their first burst. I guess that, if in reality gunners had such marksman ability there was no need of escorting fighters at all...

S!

Itto

SeaFireLIV
04-29-2004, 11:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Itto_Okami:
another thing... tone a little down the gunner aim. Eight on ten times that I go for a bomber I have a dead engine or a pk at their first burst. I guess that, if in reality gunners had such marksman ability there was no need of escorting fighters at all...

S!

Itto<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I can`t agree with that. AI gunners have been toned down TWICE since FB and if they get toned down any more they`ll be no point in having them. Do not fly straight up behind them to shoot unless you know the gunners incapacitated. Fly above, below, attack at an angle. The only time fighters ever attack from rear has been when the gunners killed, unconscous or injured (this is why you get close guncam footage on R/L B17s, otherwise the fighter would never get that close to take the film).

In fact, i would have AI gunners slightly more accurate.

But maybe you`re playing the out-of-the-box FB? If not, and you`re playing AEP or 1.22, try the unpatched FB, now the gunners in that killed you with a headshot every single time. Now that was bad.

Itto_Okami
04-29-2004, 02:41 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Maybe I did something wrong to the "Gunner's Gilda" becouse even with AEP installed i don't feel a lot of changes about gunnery...

S!

Itto

609IAP_Recon
04-30-2004, 05:01 AM
Yeah, AI need to go get more training http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

They don't call out location or altitude as well.

Salute!

IV/JG51_Recon

http://www.forgottenskies.com/jg51sig2.jpg

VMF223_Anderson
04-30-2004, 02:02 PM
Bump again,

Last mission, One wingman in the dirt chasing a dead plane, and large holes in my wing from my other wingman who is blind. AI works great in coops, with only humans though. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

G.Anderson
Hilo, Hawaii

mortoma
05-01-2004, 11:23 AM
Last night I was number two in a flight of four P-47D22s and they left me by myself fighting two Fw-190A8s, with no warning. They never said, "Hey, we're going away, please take care of those two bogies yourself!" Of course I never expected them to, knowing only too well the limits of our AI. I ended up getting both AI 190s and later the AI screwed up even worse. Number three and four planes both flew into the sides of hills on the way back to base, for no good reason!!! There was nothing wrong with their planes at all, I watched the track of the mission twice and never saw any reason for them to fly into those hills. What gives????

mike_espo
05-01-2004, 02:51 PM
Yes, the AI has come a ways since FB 1.0 but more needs to be done. I don't know if its even possible. It seems that Avg. AI is too easy and Vet AI is too difficult. Killing everything in sight. I have made a campaign with Avg AI and I am finding it too easy, but am hesitant to upgrade to Vet for fear of losing half or more of my squadriglia in every mission which is NOT historical.

Also, I agree with AI gunners being too tough. I find also that they are snipers. I can't even attack a bomber without losing my engine or worse...Ill take the advice given though and give it a try. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

WWSensei
09-15-2004, 01:16 PM
When I flew there were only three things I ever wanted to hear from my wingman...should be easy for Oleg to implement...

1) Lead, Two is up.
2) Lead, you're on fire.
3) I'll take the fat chick.

Anything else was superfluous.

Atomic_Marten
09-15-2004, 02:21 PM
Excellent, SeaFire. If only some of it could be done, it would be outstanding. I fly offline careers a lot (tryin' to keep 'em one at the time, but sometimes I could not resist so I have them currently three in progress http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif), so naturally I was attracted to this issue.

You covered all aspects of missing offline career features very well.

I think also that improved (for some of them, actually working as they should? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif) commands via TAB key would be of great benefit for career.

What also could be very cool feature is that your wingman/teammate allert you of *new* enemy aircraft type when he see one http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif...(when some new, notorius enemy aircraft like Fw190 arrive)... your point No#18 give me the idea. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif